Nucor Q3 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

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Provided by Quartr
October 26, 2023

There are 10 speakers on the call.

Operator

Hello, and welcome to Business First Bancshares Q3 2023 Earnings Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer I will now turn the conference over to Matt Seeley, Senior Vice President, Director of Corporate Strategy and SP and A. Please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Good afternoon and thank you all for joining. Earlier today, we issued our Q3 2023 earnings press release, a copy of which is available on our website along with the slide presentation that we will reference during today's call. Please refer to Slide 3 of our presentation, which includes our Safe Harbor disclosures regarding forward looking statements and the use of non GAAP financial measures. For those of you joining by phone, please note the slide presentation is available on our website at www.b1bank.com. Please also note our Safe Harbor statements are available Page 7 of our earnings press release that was filed with the SEC today.

Speaker 1

All comments made during today's call are subject to the Safe Harbor statements in our slide presentation and our news release. I'm joined this afternoon by Business First Bancshares President and CEO, Jude Melville Chief Financial Officer, Greg Robertson Chief Banking Officer, Philip Jordan and Chief Administrative Officer, Jerry Baskinkew. After the presentation, we'll be happy to address any questions you may have. And with that, I'll turn the call over to you, Jude.

Speaker 2

All right. Thanks, Matt, and thanks everybody for joining us. I know it's a busy time and we certainly appreciate you prioritizing this conversation. During the Q3, we continued to deliver solid fundamental shareholder oriented operating performance, generating a core ROAA of 1.1 Percent by exercising discipline around expenses and maintaining good margin stability even as we grew organic deposits. Included in our core operating results for several non run rate items, which I'll let Greg expand on in his section.

Speaker 2

However, even adjusting for these items, we still peg our run rate EPS, ROAA and efficiency ratio at $0.67 1.03 percent 62.4 percent respectively. Our 3rd quarter was highlighted by balance sheet management which yielded Another quarter of solid capital accretion, strong deposit generation, margin stability, expense management and continued healthy credit quality trends, All of which put us in position to be able to increase our dividend by $0.02 per share for the quarter, something we've been able to do for 5 years in a row now. I'd like to highlight a couple of specific accomplishments. First, we've been particularly focused over the past few quarters on managing growth within our capital structure. And I'm pleased to Our results are again accretive to tangible or excuse me to TRBC, to TCE and TBVPS, even factoring in the headwinds of additional AOCI.

Speaker 2

Yes. And not counting the impact of AOCI, we grew tangible book value per share of $0.67 an annualized rate of 20%. We slowed loan growth during the quarter to 1.7 percent annualized, which reflects some slowing demand and continued selectiveness on our part, as well as unusually high pay downs and payoffs. But we do still expect full year 2023 loan growth of 7% to 8%. I'm most pleased to report growth in deposits of $176,000,000 or about 14% annualized in the quarter.

Speaker 2

We accomplished this without causing material damage to our margin. Core NIM was down 3 basis points, but that factors in a gain of 4 $55,000 on recovery from a previous charge off and the decision to hold an additional $150,000,000 in excess liquidity at the cost of 6 basis points to the margin. Factoring out those two elements, our core margin would have been flat even while we demonstrated continuing improvement in our loan to deposit ratio. Asset quality continued to improve in the 3rd quarter with non performing loans as a percent of total loans declining to 0.33%, down from 0.36% in quarter 2. The improvement was largely attributed to the resolution of 2 non accrual loans through current period charge offs of 2,400,000 Both loans were previously assessed for credit losses and fully reserved.

Speaker 2

I'd like to point out a few branch movements as we continue on our ongoing efforts to optimize our footprint. During the quarter, we opened our 5th Dallas Fort Worth location with a new full service location in McKinney, Texas. I there recently for the ribbon cutting and our team is very excited about the opportunities as we expand further into North Texas. With locations McKinney and Frisco, we are present in 2 of the 3 fastest growing communities in Texas. We also turned our LPO in Ruston, Louisiana, another fast growing community, into a branch and moved a branch to a more growth oriented part of Monroe, Louisiana.

Speaker 2

Finally, we also sold our Leesville, Louisiana location recognized a 900 and $32,000 gain on sale attributed to the divestiture. I'll note we have added a couple of new slides to our deck that I think would be worth your focus And enhanced a couple others, particularly around our successful M and A track record, loan repricing opportunities and composition of our CRE and office portfolios. What I want to particularly point you towards is found on Page 9, which speaks to the consistent improvements we've made in various earnings focused metrics over the past 5 years. EPS has increased by 81%, net income by 2 92%, while core efficiency has improved by 5.71 basis points. Importantly, we show tangible book value per share after adjusting for AOCI growing by 33%, Even while we have made the investments necessary to grow overall asset size by a factor of 3 over that time period through acquisitions, team lift outs and strong This growth is required investment and those investments are paying off.

Speaker 2

We haven't yet we aren't yet where we plan to be, but we're clearly headed in the right direction. That concludes my big picture remarks. Thank you so much for your time. And I'll now turn it over to Greg for his commentary on the quarter and then look forward to opening the call up to Q and A. Thank you, Jude, and good afternoon,

Speaker 3

everyone. I'd like to spend just a few minutes reviewing our Q3 highlights, including some balance sheet and income statement trends and also discuss our updated thoughts on the current outlook. 3rd quarter non GAAP core net income and EPS available to common shareholders, $17,960,000 and $0.71 a share. It came in better than we expected and was driven really by, Number 1, expense management, 2 lower loan loss expense and continued stable credit trends and slightly lower loan growth as Jude mentioned. A stable net interest margin is slightly better than expected loan discount accretion.

Speaker 3

Before I dive into the more of the Specifics of the quarter, I'd like to take a moment to call out a few of the items that might not be readily identifiable, but are really important to put context into the quarter. 3rd quarter GAAP net income and EPS available to common shareholders was 19,100,000 dollars a share and benefited from 2 fee income related items that Jude mentioned earlier, the $932,000 gain on sale of our lease to the location. And as a side note, that location, we sold those deposits for a 7% to 57% deposit premium. And also the $517,000 gain on extinguishment of the Texas Citizens sub debt that we acquired in that acquisition. Excluding these items, our core non interest income was $8,400,000 and this 8,400,000 Dollar figure is a fairly clean run rate figure for the quarter and we see that as a stable Figure for a run rate for 2024.

Speaker 3

A little bit of the explanation of that is that run rate for 2024 is stable because we experienced in 2023 some one off One time income items for that, that we don't feel like that will be repeatable in 2024, but we do feel like non interest income will grow throughout the balance of the year to make that stabilized. 3rd quarter GAAP non interest expense was $8,600,000 and included just $2,000 of merger related expense. However, included in this $38,600,000 was a A figure of about $500,000 in Mastercard rebate, which we don't expect to reoccur going forward. The Q3 non interest expense also benefited from $200,000 unusually low in FDIC assessment and $200,000 unusually low other noninterest rated interest expense items. The Q3 run rate for non interest expense figure is closer to $39,500,000 as we expect the FDIC assess And the $200,000 lower expense items kind of normalize going forward.

Speaker 3

As far as 2024s, we feel Noninterest expense will be experienced a mid- to high single digit run rate going forward for the base case for the balance 24. Spread income also continued to grow and be strong in the performance in which we attribute to the loan discount accretion Of $2,400,000 coming in $500,000 higher than expected and as well as the decision to hold on more Balance sheet liquidity that Jude mentioned earlier boosted our net interest income. I'll provide more color on these dynamics a little bit later in Discussion on the margin. On the surface, the optics of credit quality appear mixed. But as Jude mentioned, we feel like our credit quality is stable and improving with those 2 previously discussed charge offs that we discussed in quarter Prior to now that we fully marked and we resolved them during this quarter.

Speaker 3

As far as the balance sheet, the balance sheet tends to remain healthy during the quarter And loans that were held for investment grew about 1.7% annualized, a little lower than expected, but we That were but also consistent with our strategy of loan growth. And as Jude mentioned, we feel like that we'll round out the year at about 7% to 8% and annualized loan growth. We are proud of the fact that our loan growth for the quarter was really headlined by a continued Loan yield of 8.6 percent on new and renewed loans for the quarter and that is helping us continue to hold the margin in place. Deposits increased, as you mentioned, dollars 176,000,000 If we include the Leesville deposits that we sold in that branch, that Number would be closer to $200,000,000 in deposit and gross deposit growth for the quarter. The $157,000,000 in the new deposits That we generated through a couple of CD campaign different CD and money market specials during the quarter were very well received by the customers and our production staff did a really good job of pushing those through.

Speaker 3

During the quarter, another highlight is we were able to generate about $43,000,000 In total, new non interest bearing deposit accounts and that added to our $14,300,000 per month average that we've been operating on for the last few months. We also managed to open 82,000,000 non maturity deposits during the quarter at a weighted average and offering rate of 4.25 percent. The September numbers for offering rates For all non maturity interest bearing deposit accounts was 4.36%.

Speaker 2

Non interest bearing

Speaker 3

deposits remains a challenge, and We will continue to put our efforts into that area as we move forward into 2024. Our non interest bearing deposits ended the quarter at 27.2 percent of our total deposits. Capital increased nicely during the 2nd quarter. As Jude mentioned, TCE TO TA up 3 basis points and total risk based capital up 22 basis points for the quarter, tangible book value of 0.16 SINCE, ex AOCI. Borrowings, as we mentioned earlier, decreased during the quarter about $152,000,000 and really as a result of our deposit gathering campaigns that allowed us to pay off all of our short term overnight borrowings with FHLB, which we're currently priced in the $5.70 to $5.75 range.

Speaker 3

We also made the as you mentioned, to hold the extra $150,000,000 in liquidity on the balance sheet as we Continue to take advantage of the BTFP funding program earlier in the year, drawing down $300,000,000 of that fund early in Quarter 1, that $150,000,000 that we carry is really doing 2 things for us. It's continuing Total liquidity levels in a range where we feel comfortable during this time and also preparing us to be able to pay off maturity coming forward in next March. Q3 GAAP net interest margin was 3.61 percent. That included $2,400,000 in loan discount accretion, which was about $500,000 higher than what we expected, but we expect that accretion to drop back closer to $1,000,000 a quarter run rate. The Q3 core net interest margin, excluding the loan discount accretion, Contracted 3 bps to 3.49 as from 3.49 to 3.46 as Jude mentioned earlier.

Speaker 3

And As he was alluding to the adjustments for the quarter and also the 6 basis points drag that we are experienced for holding that excess liquidity. Looking forward into Q4, we expect the margin to remain flat, slightly down maybe a single basis point due to modest continued liquidity build And continued funding pressures. A little color on the second point here. We have over $100,000,000 in lower cost. FHLB borrowings have matured early in the quarter and we will work on refinancing a piece of it and paying down a piece of it.

Speaker 3

So that may Negatively impact the margin as we go forward in the quarter. As I mentioned earlier, We are very proud of the production side of the bank with our continued loan yields coming in on new and renewed at an average of 160 and our deposit gathering That helped us maintain our margins. And now to cover some of the betas from the quarter, I'm going

Speaker 1

to turn Matt? Sure thing. So funding betas did increase during the quarter as expected. Cycle to date total deposit beta and interest bearing deposit beta was 41% and 56%, respectively, which was slightly ahead of what we had anticipated by about 1%. And this is really a function of better than expected deposit During the quarter?

Speaker 1

Looking ahead to Q4, I'd expect the cycle to date deposit betas to increase roughly 4%, which is down slightly from the year Quarterly beta increases of about 5% to 6%. So still increasing, but at a slower pace. On the loan side, we continue to hold cycle to date betas on new loan yields at about 85%. We're at 84% for Q3 and Thanks, Manning. This reflects a weighted average new loan origination yield of $8.55 during the quarter.

Speaker 1

And with that, I believe that concludes our prepared remarks and I think we're ready to open up the Q and A.

Operator

Thank you. One moment please for your first question. Your first question comes from the line of Brett Rabatin. I'm sorry. The first question comes from the line of Matt Ani with Stephens.

Operator

Your line is now open. You may go ahead.

Speaker 2

Hey, Matt.

Speaker 4

I want to talk more about the funding strategy over the next few quarters. You grew loans I'm sorry, you grew deposits quite a bit this quarter, Replace some of the FHLB, and it sounds like that's going to be the strategy again these next few quarters, Along with replacing some other wholesale borrowings out there. Can you just talk more about Deposit growth from here and kind of expectations to match the loan growth. Thanks.

Speaker 3

Yes. Thanks, Matt. We're continuing to run internal campaigns for deposits Really relying on the production side of the bank to continue to generate deposit growth. As we mentioned earlier, the 14% We experienced this quarter was really, really good and we're happy with that. Now As you well know across the industry right now, it's just deposits are still in battle every day.

Speaker 3

So it's something we're continuing to talk about and focus on. And if we experience the same successes going forward, then we'll really start to systematically start to unwind Higher costing liabilities, for example, like the FHLB. We've really tried to focus over the last year or so Of really segmenting those higher cost funding sources into buckets for lack of better word to where we can Have optionality each quarter to try to unwind that and improve the margin, but that is reliant on us continuing to gather We will experience as we do seasonally the end of the quarter, the beginning of the first quarter, So municipality build from a deposit standpoint.

Speaker 2

So we do expect that to come in over

Speaker 3

the later part of the 4th Quarter in the beginning of Q1 that would give us more optionality on top of our typical deposit growth. One of the things that give us kind of hope is we really consistently not only gather deposits, but really gathered non interest bearing Kind of in the face of the whole industry experiencing runoff in the non interest bearing sector. So Experiencing good account opening both in numbers and in dollars give us the hope that it

Speaker 2

could continue to move that way.

Speaker 4

Okay. Appreciate the commentary. And just to follow-up on the outlook for the margin. I think, Greg, you mentioned Flat to slightly down. I assume that was with respect to the core margin excluding some of that accretion income.

Speaker 4

Is that fair?

Speaker 3

Yes, that's fair and that's all really a function of the deposit flow that we bring in. We've really been Experiencing pretty stable on the top end loan yield side, still have a Good pipeline with good volume. I think one of the things that is worth noting is our Loan growth this quarter was really kind of muted by outsized quarter of payoffs. We had A little over $100,000,000 in payoffs, all for good reasons, projects wrapping up or companies selling projects. So if we didn't expect that and if we didn't have that, we still feel like our loan pipeline is in good shape and our growth would have Up around the 4% or 5% range maybe this quarter without that.

Speaker 3

But those yields, like I said, 8.50, 8.60 coming in at that number. So the big factor for the margin with the renewals that we have and what we see in forecast from a Renewal strategy is really relying on what our deposit base does and how that growth continues to grow.

Speaker 4

Okay. I appreciate that. And I guess if I think about that margin in the first half of next year, I know there's several puts and takes here that we've discussed before, but I guess what you're saying also is the liquidity could build In anticipation of the payoffs of the bank term funding program, I think that you said was in early 2Q. Is that fair?

Speaker 3

That's correct. And one of the things that we think that will help you is our slide on Page 21 of the deck that we put in there that really gives clarity into what we're going to see as far as fixed rate and loan maturities coming forward in the next few quarters. So we think with that we should be slightly accretive in the margin next year because of that.

Speaker 4

Perfect. Okay. Well, appreciate the disclosures and the commentary and I'll hop back in the queue.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Ben.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Brett Rabatin with Hoof Group. Your line is now open.

Speaker 5

Hey, guys. Good afternoon.

Speaker 2

Hey, Brett.

Speaker 3

Hey, Brett. Can you

Speaker 2

hear from me? I

Speaker 3

wanted I wanted

Speaker 5

to start off on the A and D book and just was curious if you were hoping to get that concentration below 100% and just you kind of think about that piece of the portfolio going forward, where you see demand and appetite from your perspective?

Speaker 3

Yes. And I'm guessing you're referring to the C and D, the construction development book? Yes.

Speaker 2

Yes. Okay.

Speaker 3

Yes. We think it is trending exactly where we thought it would Going trending down below 100%. We don't see we really haven't been originating any new C and D loans. So If you think back about at our production last year in Q2 and Q3 of last year, really we're kind of at the We're experiencing right now the peak of the funding because each of those loans is a 12 to 18 month cycle. So we're getting to a point We're a year out on some of them getting towards the kind of wrap up phase of those where We'll be transitioning out of the bank or into owner occupied or income producing.

Speaker 3

So we don't expect that to be back up over 100. We think it's going to it's trending down and going to be right there in that space for a while.

Speaker 2

We're not Eradicating C and D from our portfolio, we just felt like we were a little bit unbalanced a couple of quarters ago and felt like we needed to right size that a little bit. So Definitely want to stay below 100 and looks like we're from our internal projections we're on pace to do that and stay there. A lot of our outsized growth last year, a portion of it was C and D and if we slow down the C and D, we have Should be able to look forward to just a pretty healthy normalized loan portfolio growth over the course of 2024.

Speaker 1

Yes, Brett. And I'll give you a little bit of color. A data point that we include on Slide 26, we've got about $298,000,000 C and D maturing over the next 12 months. So of that $700,000,000 total portfolio, just under $300,000,000 maturing. Now obviously, a lot of that's going to come back balance sheet or remain on balance sheet.

Speaker 1

But I think that's a bullet point that kind of talks to some of those loans rolling off at some point over the next 12 months.

Speaker 5

Okay, that's helpful. And then speaking of Slide 26, I'm just sitting here looking at it and you've got those three Charge the bottom, we see and divide geography on our occupied and income producing and there's 42%, a little over half on the owner occupied CRE that are in all other geographies. Can you talk about those pieces? Are they still in Texas and Louisiana, but just not in one of the primary markets? Or What can you give guidance or give color on around?

Speaker 1

Yes, absolutely. So the other geography Label there, that's not to be construed as outside of our core geographies or core footprint. All of that's within Texas and Louisiana. And It's simply we picked the top 10 geographies by loan balances or by outstanding balances. And then the kind of catch all, the other would be just everything else within our existing footprints.

Speaker 1

We don't have anything outside of our kind of core Louisiana Texas footprint. But the reason that we have those geographies listed above is it simply force ranking the top 10 geographies by loan balance. So everything within our footprint.

Speaker 3

Just think of it, Fred, as outside the listed point, every other market that we serve in bank today.

Speaker 2

Okay. It just speaks to the diversification of geographic locations. We believe in diversity of geography and I think that number shows how well spread out we are over our footprint. Okay.

Speaker 5

And then just one last one for me. On the funding side, I missed the number that you gave for the DDA growth, the gross DDA growth that you had, but you're obviously being able to keep DDA Balance is relatively healthy versus maybe some others that have had more downside to that number. Are you one is What was that number? And then secondly, you kind of think there's mix shift change still from here or do you kind of feel like you can grow the DDA to kind of Keep the concentration levels the same?

Speaker 3

Yes. The number was $43,000,000 in total new non interest bearing Deposits gross for the quarter. And the second number I gave to that was that that number helped us Have an average of about $14,000,000 per month so far

Speaker 1

year to

Speaker 3

date. And I do agree with your statement that has allowed us To keep that non interest bearing like a lot of our peers have experienced that non interest bearing just declining even further. So we're playing a little bit of offense by playing defense on that.

Speaker 5

Okay. And then, Jud, any comment on the outlook for that? Do you think you continue to keep that flat? Or what's your thought on funding composition from here?

Speaker 2

Yes, I think we that was Greg talking, but I think we finished the quarter if I remember at about 27% non And I think we anticipate maybe losing 1% or 2% by the end of the year, which is in line with what we've said last quarter and The quarter before, but we believe we'll finish up the year around 25% on a trailing maybe 26%. And we're not It's a focus of ours. And as Greg mentioned, we are opening a lot of new accounts. And with the new branches that we've And that gives us an opportunity to call on new clients. And so our goal would be to Kind of remain about that 25% over time, if not improving.

Speaker 3

Okay, great. Appreciate all the color guys. Sure.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Graham Dick with Piper Sandler. Your line is now open.

Speaker 6

Hey, good evening guys.

Speaker 3

Hey, Graham. Hey, Graham.

Speaker 6

So I just wanted to circle back to the loan growth front and apologies if I missed this, but I heard there's a lot of payoffs this quarter. You're still in some pretty good markets. Dallas seems to be growing pretty substantially still. How are you guys thinking about Loan growth going into 2024, is it going to be a pretty steady 7%, 8% kind of like what you're looking at this year? Or do you think there will be a step down Maybe as the rate environment continues to work its way through borrowers appetite for new credit?

Speaker 2

We think we'll return to kind of 7%, 8% range for next year. Our pipeline and connectivity is still strong. We purposely is still strong. We've purposely chosen to manage capital and manage margin, Which has meant that we've done fewer loans than we could. And as we continue to work on earnings and growing within those earnings, that gives More room for growth in loan book and but it's not a it hasn't been a question of demand just dropping off Cliff, there is some slowdown in demand, but we also have been selective.

Speaker 2

But we feel confident that We can again, we'll have to have a little uptick in the Q4 to equal our 7%, 8% projection for the year. And uptick would be, I think in the 5%, 6% range, maybe 4% or 5% range. But then we feel well positioned to be able To kind of maintain that 7% to 8% over the course of the year. And again to Greg's point, we would have been at that 4%, 5% Without the unexpected payoffs. And I wouldn't emphasize the unexpected payoffs were all for good reasons.

Speaker 2

We just had Developers that sold projects that came to fruition, which is how it's supposed to work. So we're pleased about that.

Speaker 6

Right. Yes, got it. And then you mentioned on capital building internally, kind of you guys have managed through this year. How are you thinking about capital priorities right now when it comes to, I guess, a couple of options. First being like organic growth and then the second maybe like a Bond restructuring type transaction, we've seen a lot of that recently.

Speaker 6

And then I guess third, you did put in that new slide on M and A. So just wondering What your thoughts are on that front as well? So do you guys have a way you're thinking about capital allocation right now as it relates to those items?

Speaker 2

Yes. I think number one priority is funding organic growth at a good moderate but healthy pace, When it grows within our capital stack and within our retained earnings, we do analyze opportunities to restructure the investment portfolio from time to time. And When that option seems to make sense, we'll take advantage of that. We haven't decided to pull the trigger obviously on that yet, but Doesn't mean that we're not open to it. And then on M and A, while it's not our priority in terms of how to spend capital, We do believe there will be opportunities for us to review and partnerships for us to consider and We're prepared to do that under the right circumstances, but don't feel like we need to do it.

Speaker 2

We'll just do it if it makes Lot of sense for our strategic plans. But number one priority is funding the organic growth.

Speaker 6

Okay, got it. It's helpful. And then I guess the last one for me, another, I guess, sort of big picture question. It looks like the 1% ROA target is within reach this year. Is there anything you're looking at Next year or the year after, any new sort of level you guys are targeting or new metric you guys are looking at achieving?

Speaker 2

I think it's probably a little early. We're in the budgeting process, just kind of begun it and Probably with the amount of uncertainty that's out there now, I think it would be a little bit too early To make any forecast of improvement there. I mean, we're going to that's our goal. We want to we'll keep managing that over a multiple year period. One reason we put in the chart About 5 year improvement and across all the profitability metrics is that we want to show that We're committed to that being the key driver of how we make decisions over time.

Speaker 2

And so we'll We do believe that over the long run, we'll move closer to that $115,000,000 $120,000,000 ROA. But in the short run, it's a little hard to predict given all the moving parts. And again, we're just beginning the budgetary process. We feel like this year was A big step in terms of achieving that 1% kind of baseline. And we'll continue To work to build from there.

Speaker 2

We didn't put the M and A chart in to necessarily signal that we were getting ready to do M and A. We did it just to show That over time the M and A that we have done along with other decisions that we've made have led to improved performance. And I know from an institutional investor standpoint or from an analyst standpoint because we were quite active on the M and A front, I think there was some concern Yes, maybe we were just doing deals to do deals and I'm being a little dramatic here. But we take it as a point of product that the deals that we have done That made us a stronger franchise. And so we felt like we had enough information now to do a little look back and prove out the case For our combined M and A and organic growth strategies and we'll continue to make capital decisions with those Longer term goals

Operator

in mind.

Speaker 6

All right. Absolutely. I hear you. Thank you, guys.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Kevin Fitzsimon with D. A. Davidson. Your line is now open.

Speaker 7

Hey, guys. Good evening.

Speaker 2

Hey, Kevin. Hey, Kevin. Hey, Kevin.

Speaker 7

Hey, first, I just want to Do a little housekeeping because I was trying to keep up with you as best I could, Greg, but I'm getting slower with my age here. But So what you said about the fee revenue base, you said 8.4% is a clean run rate And good to use for going forward. Is that am I correct there with what you said?

Speaker 3

Yes, that's correct. And Little bit of nuance that may not have conveyed, but we think that's probably a clean run rate for 2024 because we had some one off SBIC, for example, and there was unexpected revenue in 'twenty three that Really, we expect that non interest income number to grow, but because we're going to back out that, for example, dollars 2,000,000 out of that run rate that we experienced in 2023, Holding that A four flat really is a growth number for us.

Speaker 7

Got it. Got it. Okay. That's good clarity. And then on expenses, you made the point that 39.5 is a better run rate, right?

Speaker 7

And there were and then in 'twenty four, more like mid to high single digit off of that. Is that And I know you went through a couple of nuances from expenses Mastercard, FDIC

Speaker 3

Assessment? Yes, Kevin, that's right. That's the right thinking though, 39.5% is the kind of launching point and then that Percentage that I mentioned is right.

Speaker 7

Okay. Okay, great.

Speaker 4

And then

Speaker 7

It might make maybe it's I don't know if you it's something you're just looking at right now, but given Well, it's still a challenging revenue environment on the expense side. Is there anything specific you guys are looking at or is In terms of moves or is it more just an everyday battle on the expense side? How you're going to approach that?

Speaker 3

Yes. I think as far as interest expense, yes, it's We're just working hard every day to try to gather those deposits and those expand customer relationships that ultimately help us win and Reduce, like I had mentioned, our reliance on borrowed broker, those kind of things. And we think we set up the balance sheet to where we As we keep winning on the deposit side, we'll have the optionality to pay that off and help us on that overall expense base.

Speaker 2

I think assuming your question was also a little about non interest expense.

Speaker 7

Yes.

Speaker 2

Yes, I think it's more of just a daily decision making. There's not a part of our franchise We feel like we need to cut off in order to save expenses and we feel like one reason I mentioned the branches earlier is that And we have a slide in the deck to speak to this, but I think we've done a good job of continuing to rationalize the network over time as opposed to allowing Branches that we bought or acquired in M and A or have become obsolete of our legacy branches Letting that kind of hang out there where we have to come back and do a 10% reduction. I think we've done a good job of every quarter analyzing our infrastructure and Figuring out where we might, if not cut, maybe redeploy into more productive growth oriented locations. So we'll continue doing that Real time on a quarterly basis and that's kind of how we view hiring as well. One of the reasons that we've had That we've displayed good expense control this past quarter and the quarter before that is that we We made some decisions about hiring or putting off hiring until we felt comfortable that the revenue We justify it and so we'll continue on a quarterly basis to actually on a real everyday basis To think hard about investments in infrastructure and in people.

Speaker 2

We did in 2022, 2021, we made quite a few hires of bankers and we feel like there's still Some capacity there in terms of portfolio and workload, particularly at this kind of slower Loan growth rate and as we've kind of transitioned over to focusing more on deposits as well. So feel like we've got a staff That is capable of continuing to incrementally build, and I think that's a good spot for us to be in right now versus Embarking upon a particularly expensive growth option. So Expense control is something that we ought to be thinking about on a daily basis as opposed to Ignoring it until we have to, I guess, and that's the way we try to approach it.

Speaker 7

Yes. Okay. Thanks, Jude. And One last one quick one for me on the subject of deposits, you guys called out the Financial Institutions Group for contributing. Just curious if that was more something deliberate you guys were pushing or was it more just the behavior of Client banks themselves in terms of giving deposits over to you guys.

Speaker 7

Thanks.

Speaker 3

No, I think our Approach to FIG in general is we want to make sure that that's a relationship with banks that also We're looking at other pieces of our product offering, for example, loan sales, Customer relationships with our SSW Group. So it's not we are looking for deposits, but I think it's not a Deposit install cost strategy, we're looking for more of a relationship with all of those paying clients.

Speaker 7

Got it.

Speaker 3

Okay. That's about $200,000,000 right now. So it's still a fairly small part of our balance sheet.

Operator

Your last question comes from the line of Freddie Stryglen with Janney Montgomery Scott. Your line is now open.

Speaker 8

Hey, good evening gentlemen.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Betty. Thanks, Betty. Good evening.

Speaker 9

Just Curious, as we look into 2024 and beyond, are there markets outside your footprint you'd be interested in expanding to whether if it's organic, More likely organic in the near term and maybe longer term M and A or do you feel like you have plenty of opportunity within the footprint you have now?

Speaker 2

I don't really view it as a binary choice, I guess, is the way that I would say it. I mean, I think our priority and our Most immediate opportunity is certainly within our existing footprint and enough opportunity there To say grace over for many years, that's what we choose to do. I do think that as we Gain momentum and as we gain brand recognition, one of the that's not just among client base, That's also amongst potential teammates and employees that may be attracted to a bank such as ours. And if we come across the right employees, then we would be open to moving to other geographies If they're the right fit, we've always while we have a general thrust of where we want to invest, we also have been very Banker specific in terms of the specific markets that we've it's been more about the banker than it has been the location. For example, McKinney operation that we just opened, although certainly on a numerical basis, when you think about the demographics, McKinney is a very attractive place to But we wouldn't have opened a McKinney if we didn't find a banker and a banking team that we felt were the right teammates in that market and that we trusted To help us grow our franchise.

Speaker 2

So as we think about future geographies, I do think we'll look And other places in the Southeast over time, most likely the Southeast. But the order of preference will be determined by the quality of partnership We feel we can put together and so if that happens, that happens and if it doesn't, we feel like we can deploy capital Constructively over time within our current footprint.

Speaker 3

This is Philip. I would just add as far as the McKinney and I are concerned, We are very excited about that opportunity. He's actually been on staff over a year and came to our Frisco office immediately built up a portfolio. So that we did when we did McKinney, it wasn't a cold open. This asset has already paid for itself.

Speaker 9

Appreciate that. That's great additional color. And I get it. It's all about finding the banker first. Just one last one from me.

Speaker 9

As we look forward in 2024, appreciate talking about all the moving parts, ROA, everything else. But do you think we could see efficiency Core efficiency ratio below 60% potentially in the back half of 'twenty four.

Speaker 3

Yes. I think that's what we're striving for. I think Looking at that, as you well know, really the deposit gathering and deposit costs will be the key to that, but that is our goal. I think That's probably a fair enough way to answer that.

Speaker 8

Understood. Thanks for taking my questions.

Operator

The final question comes from the line of Michael Rose with Raymond James. Your line is now open. You may now go ahead.

Speaker 8

Hey guys, thanks for taking my questions. Just a few quick ones. Greg, I was hoping you could kind of have a range or kind of quantify what the impact of the seasonal municipal deposits is and what we should expect?

Speaker 2

Yes. That's we usually see

Speaker 3

$150,000,000 to $200,000,000 come in Over this course of the quarter, that does impact the margin negatively because of the cost of those funds they come in, they're mostly interest bearing. But I think the biggest part that we usually Struggle with forecasting is it is tax money. So it's all dependent on the speed at which it comes in. For example, Last year it came in very, very late the end of Q4 and balance of it Q1. It just really depends on when the taxpayers bring their tax payments in, but it's about $200,000,000 in total.

Speaker 8

Got it. Helpful. And then it seems like loan growth is going to kind of reaccelerate here as we move into next year. You guys have done A good job on the deposit side. Now the loan to deposit ratio has gotten down in kind of the mid-90s.

Speaker 8

But it seems like maybe that's going to go up again. I assume the target To kind of keep that sub 100%, is that what we're thinking? And I know you talked about some of the deposit stuff earlier, But is there anything more that you're looking at to grow some of the core funding? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Yes, I think definitely we want to we'd like to stay below 100%. And one of the reasons for the excess liquidity is to paying That's fine, but it's also just to make sure we have some wiggle room in terms of liquidity, so that we can do that even if we I have certain relationships that we feel need to take advantage of. The governors on the loan growth though will be capital retained earnings Capitalizing that growth and then deposit generation. So we would Love to be able to generate deposits at a rate slightly greater than loans. That may not hold true every single quarter, but over the course of the year, We feel like with our focus and results that we've demonstrated this year and The results, so it's one thing to have the deposit growth, but it's another to actually demonstrate internally That's a more balanced approach to growth pays off in terms of higher earnings.

Speaker 2

And that's a positive thing for us To be able to demonstrate and we have demonstrated it over the course of the year and as we talk internally, as we think about incentive programs, as we think about Continuing to build upon the cultural aspect of placing importance on deposits. I don't see any reason that the Improvements that we've demonstrated this year won't continue into the future. And we certainly you and I talked before about 3.5 years, 4 years ago 3 years ago, 3.5 years ago, we set a 5 year plan. And part of that was achieving a certain level Growth in asset size, which we felt was kind of a sweeter spot to be in. As we've I'm close to that now on our own pace to get there over within the 5 year plan.

Speaker 2

That means, as I've talked about in previous quarterly calls, It's a bit more of a focus on not growth, but on healthy profitable growth. And so that means that we're not going to we won't return to as high level of loan growth in the near future, focus on balance growth, which would imply that we want to maintain that below 100 percent loan to deposit ratio and we certainly feel like the 7%, 8% loan growth Next year, we feel we could do needs to be accompanied by a similar level of deposit growth.

Speaker 3

And that's our that's what we'll work to do.

Speaker 8

Very helpful. And that dovetails into my final question. It just seems like putting together all the pieces, looks like you guys Should be able to eke out some positive operating leverage next year. Is that the way we should think about it?

Speaker 2

That's the goal. I mean, I think that we've been doing that. We've done that the last couple of quarters and certainly want to continue to do that. So Yes. I'll be disappointed if we don't.

Speaker 8

Great. Thanks for taking my questions guys.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Robert. Thanks, Mark.

Speaker 1

Hey, Michael. One other thing, your point about seasonality The tax funds coming in and out reminded me there's some seasonality in our expense base in Q4. I just want to be sure we highlight Q4 seasonally higher about $1,000,000 little over $1,000,000 On the expense side, so just wanted to make sure we don't lose sight of that. Any more questions?

Speaker 2

I think we've lost our narrator.

Operator

I'm here. I just I was just All right. It looks like there are no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the call over to Matt Sealy.

Speaker 1

I think I'll kick it to Jude for any closing remarks that you might have.

Speaker 2

Yes. Thanks, Matt. Well, appreciate everybody's time today. We were very pleased with the quarter. I mean, it's From capital accretion to the earnings improvement to the focus on adding liquidity in an environment in which liquidity I think from an operating standpoint, we had a great operating quarter.

Speaker 2

And I think continuing to do that over time Well, justify stock appreciation as the market normalizes at some point, which I know It seems like it's been a long time and it could potentially be a while, but at some point banks will be in favor and we feel like we're positioning ourselves to be One of the higher flyers in that market. We'll keep grinding out operationally. I feel proud of our team and appreciate the interest. Happy to have any follow-up calls that we need to have. Have a good night.

Operator

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

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Earnings Conference Call
Nucor Q3 2023
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