Laurentian Bank of Canada Q4 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
December 7, 2023

There are 12 speakers on the call.

Operator

Welcome to the Laurentian Bank Quarterly and Annual Financial Results Call. Please note that this call is being recorded. And I would like to turn the meeting over to Andrew Chynenki, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead, Andrew.

Speaker 1

Good morning, everyone. Today's opening remarks will be delivered by Eric Provost, President and CEO and the review of the Q4 financial results Will be presented by Evan Deschamps, Chief Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. After which, we will invite questions from the phone. Also joining us for the question period are Liam Mason, Chief Risk Officer and Kelsey Gunderson, Head of Capital Markets. All documents pertaining to the quarter can be found on our website in the Investor Center.

Speaker 1

I'd like to remind you that during this conference call, Forward looking statements may be made, and it is possible that actual results may differ materially from those projected in such statements. For the complete cautionary note regarding forward looking statements, please refer to our press release or to Slide 2 of the presentation. I would also like to remind listeners that the bank assesses its performance on a reported and adjusted basis and considers both to be useful in assessing underlying business Eric and Ivan will be referring to adjusted results in their remarks unless otherwise noted as reported. I'll now turn the call over to Eric.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Andrew, and good morning, and thank you for joining us today. I'm humbled to be speaking to you as the new President and CEO of Laurentian Bank. I know that the past few months have been a challenging period for the bank with the conclusion of the strategic review and an outage of our mainframe, which impacted our retail and some small business customers for more than 3 days. There were also a series of leadership changes. Notwithstanding, I strongly believe that there is a stable and brighter future ahead for our organization.

Speaker 2

I would like to thank the entire Laurentian Bank team for their resilience and commitment to our customers, To each other, our shareholders and all other stakeholders during this time. I would also like to thank our customers for the trust You placed in us. You continue to be our number one priority and my commitment to you as the bank's new CEO is that we will do better. While we have made significant progress over the past few years, our results this year have been impacted by continued macro Economic uncertainty and limited progress in reducing our cost base. That's why I will be devoting some time today to talk about our path forward.

Speaker 2

But first, I will provide an overview of our results and recent changes at the bank. On an annual basis, The bank had total revenue of €1,030,000,000 relatively in line with last year. Strong growth in interest income from commercial loans Was offset by lower financial markets related revenue, which continued to be impacted by unfavorable market conditions. Net income for the year was $208,000,000 down 12% compared to last year and EPS was $4.52 or down 13%. Over the past year, we made a series of foundational investments in talent acquisition, Technology and Business Development to improve the customer experience.

Speaker 2

As a result, expenses were up 4% compared to last year, And our full year efficiency ratio was 69.9%. With our prudent and disciplined approach To credit, our PCL ratio was relatively in line with last year at 17 basis points. In the Q4, net income was $44,700,000 and EPS was $1 down 22% 18% respectively Quarter over quarter and down 23% and 24% respectively year over year. Results this quarter were negatively impacted by $5,300,000 or $0.09 per share from the mainframe outage. Of note, Monthly service fees for the months of September October were waived to support our customers and make things right.

Speaker 2

This quarter, we also announced restructuring and strategic review related charges of $11,700,000 after tax. This includes severance charges, impairment charges and professional fees resulting from the bank's review of strategic options. This amount is excluded from our adjusted results. Relative to the guidance we provided last quarter, Loan growth was muted as macroeconomic conditions impacted business and consumer spending. Our efficiency ratio was higher at 72% due to a lower loan base, unfavorable market conditions and higher expenses due to the outage.

Speaker 2

NIM was down 8 bps due to lower interest income from commercial loans and higher liquidity levels. PCLs were 18 bps, down 1 bps from last year and up 4 bps compared to last quarter. Capital remains strong at 9.9%, up 10 bps sequentially. Before moving on to some of the recent changes at the bank, I would like to address 2 of our commercial banking specialties, inventory financing and commercial real estate. Inventory financing remains a core specialty.

Speaker 2

And while utilization rates were down this quarter as dealers Took a more conservative approach to inventory volumes, it is still aligned with our credit appetite. We have a well diversified and LT dealer network and expect a modest ramp up of inventory heading into the 2024 season. In commercial real estate, the majority of our portfolio is in multi residential housing where demand is stronger than supply. While we have seen a slowdown in some projects, there have been no project cancellation. As a reminder, we deal with Tier 1s and Tier 2 developers and are comfortable with our portfolio.

Speaker 2

I would now like to address some of the recent events at the bank beginning with the mainframe outage. On September 23, the bank along with 3rd party partners Initiated an upgrade to one of its 2 mainframe computers. The update was unsuccessful and led to a multi day outage where our retail and some small business customers could not access a number of our electronic services, including our online banking platform. Throughout the outage, our customers were able to use their debit and credit cards at point of sales and withdraw money at ATMs. And at no time were customer funds or data at risk.

Speaker 2

This situation was completely unacceptable. In response, we've established and successfully executed on a 3 point plan to restore trust with our customers. First, we resolved all outstanding issues related to the outage. 2nd, we increased communication with our customers to ensure that they were provided with timely updates on the full restoration of the bank's services. 3rd, we launched a comprehensive review of the factors that led to the outage.

Speaker 2

We have shared updates with our Board and are adjusting internal processes as required based on the lessons learned. On October 14, 2023, following my appointment, we initiated the succession plans for personal and commercial banking designed to increase our focus on customers. 1st, Sebastien Bedard was appointed as the Bank Chief Operating Officer. In addition to his responsibility for retail operations, his mandate was expanded to include oversight of product and digital development. This structure will allow the bank to focus on the customer from an end to end product and servicing perspective.

Speaker 2

2nd, Thierry L'Argente joined the Bank's Executive Committee by assuming the role of Executive Vice President, Commercial Banking. Thierry has long been on the succession plan for commercial banking and with more than 10 years of experience at the bank And 20 years in commercial financing, he brings a proven track record of building and maintaining strong relationships with the bank's commercial clients. 3rd, Sophie Boucher was appointed Senior Vice President, Head of Personal Banking Distribution and Small and Medium Enterprises. With more than 25 years of bank of experience at the bank, she is tasked with extending commercial banking, Ivy's successful Customer service practices and distribution to personal banking. I am confident that with these changes, we are bringing our senior leaders even closer to the customer and make them more accountable for the customer experience.

Speaker 2

Moving forward, We will be revamping our strategic plan and sharing further details with you in the spring. We are already taking action today under the following guiding principles: understanding the past in order to shape the future simplifying the organization to increase efficiency and refocusing the bank's core activities to create maximum value for our customers. To that end, We have introduced 3 strategic priorities for the organization. 1st, becoming more customer centric. As previously outlined, We have made a series of executive changes that move customer centric individuals in key roles and give them an end to end view of the customer experience.

Speaker 2

We will now continue to cascade this approach throughout the organization. 2nd, simplification. Laurentian Bank has talked about simplification and efficiency for many years without results. Notwithstanding the investments we had To make to close foundational gaps for our customers, we have failed to reduce expenses at an appropriate pace. We must now focus on running the bank versus transforming the bank, and we are already taking action.

Speaker 2

Earlier this week, we began to simplify our organizational structure and eliminated approximately 2% of our workforce. As part of our strategic planning exercise, we will also be reviewing all products and projects. Product will be evaluated on customer satisfaction, value and margin. Projects will be reviewed on their ability Generate revenue or improve our activities. If they do not meet certain thresholds, we will eliminate those products and pause or cancel those projects.

Speaker 2

3rd, technology investments will be focused on running the bank and improving our systems. We will also continue to invest prudently in technology projects that generate additional revenue. I'm also committing to ensuring that our dollars are appropriately directed to maximize net income and return to shareholders. Going forward, we will be looking for performance driven results on our investments. In conclusion, these steps I just outlined will streamline the organization and allow us to focus on what we do well, serving our customers, improving customer trust and ensuring that we remain a strong Quebec based financial institution.

Speaker 2

I would now like to turn the call over to Ivan to review our financial performance.

Speaker 3

I would like to begin by turning to Slide 9, which highlights the bank's financial performance for 2023. Total revenue for the year was $1,030,000,000 relatively in line with last year. On a reported basis, net income and EPS $181,100,000 and $3.89 respectively. Adjusting item for the year amount to $27,300,000 after tax or $0.63 per share and include amortization of acquisition related intangible assets And restructuring and strategic review related charges of $17,700,000 This includes $13,400,000 Resulting from changes in the bank's management structure and the rightsizing of the bank's capital markets franchise, as well as strategic review related charges of $4,400,000 Details of these items are shown on Slide 24. The remainder of my comments will focus on the Q4 on an adjusted basis.

Speaker 3

Total revenue as seen on Slide 10 was $247,400,000 down 4% year over year and 5% sequentially. Due to fee waivers of 2.3 $1,000,000 related to the mainframe outage and from a lower contribution from financial markets related to the revenue As a result of sustained unfavorable market conditions. EPS of $1 was down year over year and quarter over quarter by 24% and 18%, respectively, impacted by $0.09 due to charges related to the outage. Net income of $44,700,000 was down by 23% compared to last year and 22% compared to last quarter. The efficiency ratio was up by 5.40 basis points compared to last year and 3.50 basis points sequentially As uncertain macroeconomic conditions impacted revenue and our continued investments in strategic priorities, ROE was 6.6%.

Speaker 3

Slide 11 shows net interest income down by $900,000 Or 1% year over year, sorry, exact, mainly due to higher liquidity levels and funding costs, partly offset by higher interest income from commercial loans. On a sequential basis, the decrease of $9,200,000 or 5% Mainly reflects lower interest income from commercial loans and higher liquidity levels. Net interest margin was down 8 basis points Sequentially to 1.76 percent mainly for the same reasons. Slide 12 highlights our diversified sources of funding and the bank's Liquidity position. Year over year cost efficient long term debt related to securitization increased by $700,000,000 And loans decreased by $500,000,000 As an offset, we reduced wholesale funding and rate sensitive deposits While maintaining the same level of personal deposits.

Speaker 3

On a sequential basis, total funding was relatively flat. Personal term deposits were up $300,000,000 which was offset by a decrease in demand deposits as customers choose higher interest rate products in the current environment. The bank maintained a strong liquidity coverage ratio through the quarter. Retail deposits only slightly reduced by $50,000,000 in Q4 and were not materially impacted by the recent events. Slide 13 presents other income, which decreased by 12% compared to last year because of unfavorable market conditions impacting Financial markets related revenue, including fees and securities brokerage commissions and income from mutual funds.

Speaker 3

On a sequential basis, other income was down 6% or $4,200,000 mainly for the same reasons, As well as a $2,300,000 reduction in service charges for customer banking fees waived as a result of the mainframe outage. Slide 14 shows non interest expenses up by 4% compared to last year, mainly due to higher technology depreciation Expenses of $3,000,000 as a result of the outage, partly offset by lower performance based compensation. On a sequential basis, non interest expenses were relatively flat, mainly due to sequentially lower performance based compensation. As Eric mentioned in his remarks, we have taken steps this month to further simplify our organizational structure. As a result, Restructuring charges of $6,500,000 before tax are expected to be incurred in the Q1 of 2024 And we'll generate annual cost savings of approximately $8,000,000 before taxes.

Speaker 3

Turning to Slide 15. Our CET1 ratio was up 10 basis points to 9.9% Due to internal capital generation and the reduction in the risk weighted assets. Slide 16 highlights our Commercial loan portfolio, which was down $400,000,000 or 2% year over year and was sequentially stable. Slide 17 provides details of our inventory financing portfolio. This quarter, utilization rates are down slightly As dealers have been taking a more conservative approach to inventory.

Speaker 3

We've seen a modest ramp up of inventory going into 2024 And we expect utilization rates to increase slightly next quarter, but remain below historical levels. Given the current economic environment, we are monitoring the portfolio closely. Commercial Real Estate, our unfunded pipeline remains healthy, But the market is still cooling. Some developers have slowed down given the macro the current macroeconomic environment as they navigate Through this period of high inflation and interest rates. However, demand in residential real estate continues to exceed supply.

Speaker 3

We expect our unfunded pipeline to be impacted in line with the market. As seen on Slide 18, The majority of our portfolio is in multi residential housing and only around 3% of our commercial loan portfolio is in office. Our office portfolio consists of Class A OR B assets and financial recourse to strong and experienced sponsors. As we've said over the past few quarters, the majority of the portfolio is in multi tenanted properties with limited exposure Single Tenanted Buildings. Slide 19 presents the bank's residential mortgage portfolio.

Speaker 3

Residential mortgage loans were up 3% year over year and 2% on a sequential basis. We maintain prudent underwriting standards and are confident in the quality of our portfolio as evidenced by the high Proportion of insured mortgages at 59% and low LTV of 49% on the uninsured portfolio. It is also worth noting that more than 80% of our residential mortgage portfolio is fixed rate, of which more than 80% will mature in 20 25 or later. Allowances for credit losses on Slide 20 totaled $214,800,000 Up $13,600,000 compared to last year, mostly as a result of higher provisions on commercial loans related to credit migration. Allowances for credit losses decreased by $2,300,000 sequentially, mostly as a result of already provisioned net write offs.

Speaker 3

Turning to Slide 21, the provision for credit losses was $16,700,000 An improvement of $1,200,000 from a year ago, reflecting lower provisions on performing loans due to volume Reduction and credit migration, partly offset by higher provisions on impaired loans. PCLs were up by $3,300,000 compared to last quarter due to higher provisions on impaired loans. Slide 22 provides an overview of impaired loans. On a year over year basis, gross impaired loans increased by $70,300,000 And we're up $26,000,000 sequentially, mostly in the commercial portfolio, which is well collateralized. We continue to manage our risk with a prudent and disciplined approach and remain adequately provisioned.

Speaker 3

Over the past few years, We have maintained a dividend payout ratio at the lower end of our stated range of 40% to 50%. Our current payout ratio is currently high and expected to be next As a result of ongoing macroeconomic conditions, our current high payout ratio and dividend yield, The Board decided to prudently maintain our quarterly dividend at $0.47 As we look To the beginning of 2024, I would like to note a few key points focused on the Q1. We expect our loan book to be relatively stable, But if macroeconomic conditions continue to negatively impact business and consumer spending, we may see a small decline in the Q1. Considering the muted loan growth, the current macroeconomic environment and recent events, we have been managing at a high level of liquidity. We now intend to manage our liquidity down slightly and gradually over the coming quarters while remaining prudent.

Speaker 3

The NIM is expected to remain relatively stable. We expect our efficiency ratio to increase in the Q1 due to To a seasonal increase in payroll taxes as we start the New Year and pay annual bonuses as well as due to the reset of the performance based compensation. We mentioned that the key priority for this bank is to simplify and improve our operational efficiency. We are committed to reducing our efficiency ratio and we'll share more details with you in the spring as part of our revamped strategic plan. Given the macroeconomic environment, PCL are expected to be in the high teens to low 20s.

Speaker 3

As a reminder, an LRCN interest payment is due Next quarter, which has an impact of $0.06 on our EPS. I will now turn the call back to the operator.

Speaker 2

Thank

Operator

You will then hear a 3 tone prompt acknowledging your request. And if you're using a speakerphone, we do ask that you please lift the handset before pressing any key. And your first question will be from Manny Grauman at Scotiabank. Please go ahead.

Speaker 4

Hi, good morning. Yvonne, I just wanted to clarify Something up top in terms of the guidance you provided at the end of your commentary. Just to clarify that most of it was directed at Q1 and then the PCL Guidance for the year as a whole, do I have that right? I just wanted to double check.

Speaker 3

Yes, Meny, the guidance was related essentially to Q1, but for the PCL, I think it applies probably to Q1 and the full 2024.

Speaker 2

Yes, Manny, this is Liam.

Speaker 5

Our expectations are in the high teens, low 20s for the full year on PTL guidance.

Speaker 4

Okay. Thanks for that. Another clarification in terms of the restructuring charge that you're going to take in Q1, you highlight run rate savings of €8,000,000 Just wondering if you see that slowing down to the bottom line or is there a need to reinvest That at this stage.

Speaker 3

No, definitely, Mene, it's done for impacting the Efficiency ratio, so the $8,000,000 is savings that is expected to this is pretax, but is expected to flow down to the bottom line.

Speaker 4

Got it. And then maybe this is a question for Eric. It definitely sounds Mike, there's a level of frustration from your part in terms of the progress on expense management at the bank. I'm just curious about a few things. One, if you could go into a more detail in terms of How you analyze the problem?

Speaker 4

Why has expense management Not been at the level that you think it needs to be. So if you look back historically,

Speaker 3

Where do

Speaker 4

you see the issues? So maybe start there.

Speaker 2

Yes. Thank you, Meny. I would not Qualify those as issues. I think that we haven't tackled simplification as hard as we could have in the past. And like what I'm committed to is that me and the leadership team in place will be revisiting The strategic plan and make sure that on the core aspect, we focus more on our customer, We focus more on creating efficiencies through simplification and that while doing that, we will continue and invest in Fundamental Technology, but I think it's a whole many at the end of the day.

Speaker 4

And that's really the second question, especially in the context of the systems outage. As you cut, how do you gain confidence that cutting in the right places and not cutting in the wrong places that might lead to issues. So just High level, how you see that sort of playing out? How you make sure that you're cutting in the right places?

Speaker 2

I think I'm surrounded with talented executives that have Great experience and I've been around the bank 11 years many. So I have a pretty good feel Of where we're performing, where we can improve. And again, it's going to be part of the full exercise we're going to under And it's already started. As you know, like we've reduced 2% of our workforce this week and We'll keep making the right assessment and make sure that the decisions we're taking are to make our bank a Better Bank at the end of the day.

Speaker 4

And I know you're going to have you're going to Speak about the strategic plan in more detail in the spring. You made that clear. But just on this expense issue in terms of Where expenses go from here, ideally, is there an efficiency target that you think is Important to reach even if it's just a range. At what point would you say mission accomplished in terms of expenses? How much improvement is there for Laurentian Bank?

Speaker 2

The only thing I can come back to, Meny, is that like the goal of the previous Strategic plan was to get us below the 65% mark, and we're not heading in the right direction right now. So again, part of the revamping will be To get back to the drawing boards, make sure that we address path of simplification and that We go the other way around.

Speaker 4

Understood. Thank you. Understood. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Operator

The next question will be from Paul Holden at CIBC. Please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Thank you. Good morning. So on the guidance, appreciate that it was focused on Q1. I think the other important factor for us to I have a good sense on is the net interest margins. I'm not sure to what That might be impacted by your upcoming strategic review, but if you give us any kind of color on NIM outlook for the full year, I think that would be helpful and appreciated.

Speaker 6

Yes.

Speaker 3

There is definitely a few factors impacting this, Paul. But at this point, I would probably guide to relative stability. We expect 2024 to be impacted by the macroeconomic environment. So the loan growth is going to be relatively muted. So the portfolio mix is definitely something that could play in, but it should not move that much in the coming year Based on the fact we expect relatively muted growth.

Speaker 3

What should be helping the NIM a little bit by a peep or 2 gradually over the next two quarters Is that we've been prudently managing at high liquidity levels relative to the economic environment as well as the recent events of the bank. So we will gradually reduce that excess liquidity that we've been maintaining. So there's probably a beep or 2 that's going to be coming from this. But at this point, I think we're just going to be prudent in terms of NIM management for expectations.

Speaker 6

Okay, okay. That is helpful. Thank you. And then specific question on funding, the strategic Partner deposits were down roughly 10% quarter over quarter. What drove that?

Speaker 6

And are the strategic partner deposits Still an area of focus for Laurentian.

Speaker 3

Yes. Thank you for your question, Paul. The strategic deposit is the Reduction in terms of deposit on the demand side. We have to keep in mind that this is demand deposits, right? So it does follow the trend that we've In industry of going from demand to term deposits, so that's what we've been seeing.

Speaker 3

So it seems that it just continues going to term deposits Or some kind of investment. So there is nothing particular this quarter in terms of debt reduction. It's really related to market dynamics that we've seen in terms of demand.

Speaker 6

Okay. So based on that answer, is there then an opportunity for Laurentian to offer term deposits to those same partners?

Speaker 3

I don't want to go too much in the details of those agreements for a competitive reason, Paul, but it's really structured around demand deposits. With the partners we have right now, there's less opportunities to do the term deposits, but definitely we're always looking at partnerships on the deposit side. But the ones we have right now are really structured around demand.

Speaker 6

Understand. Okay. Okay. Next question is with respect To credit, so obviously nothing worrying in the PCL ratios. But if I look at Slide 22, I can see both the gross and net impaired loans on a basis point Basis increasing faster than PCL.

Speaker 6

So, again, nothing necessarily worrying there is just rate of change is different. So, My question really is like why not increase provisions a little bit more, be a little bit more conservative in terms of how you're managing the allowances, Particularly given you've highlighted economic challenges ahead.

Speaker 5

So Paul, thank you for your question. It's Liam Mason, Chief First Officer. You may recall that over the past year or so, we've Been very, very measured in terms of setting our ACLs. While some other larger banks released post The pandemic, we maintained our reserves. We have a very disciplined ACL process.

Speaker 5

We benchmark our Economic scenarios against the Bank of Canada and the competitors. We have very good coverage ratios, And we take a prudent and measured approach to setting those ACLs. We're very comfortable with where we are right now, Given that measured disciplined approach and we will be continuing to do that.

Speaker 6

Okay. Okay. Last question and probably the most important question from me with respect to capital allocation. So CET1 ratio of 9.9%, up 80 basis points a year ago. I would agree you're in a good capital position.

Speaker 6

So And given the outlook for muted loan growth, like what is the plan to use that additional capital you've built Over the last year or maybe the question is, do you believe you have capacity to use it? And if you do, how would you plan on using it? I would argue With the stock trading at less than 0.5 times book and operating ROE of let's call it around 8 My back stock is a pretty attractive use of capital. So interested to hear your thoughts on that.

Speaker 3

Thank you, Paul. I'll take this one. So we're at 9%, 9%. So I would say in this environment, It's a good place to be. We're comfortable with the capital base that we have, and I think it's a great moment in time probably to have that.

Speaker 3

We mentioned loan growth is going to be relatively muted for the few next few quarters. So I would say Stay tuned. We're looking at the plan right now and we're going to come back in a few quarters and probably provide more perspective on what we're We're going to be doing exactly. But at this point, really like the position we're in, very comfortable in the current environment. It's a great place to be.

Speaker 6

Okay. That's it for me. Thank you.

Speaker 7

Thank you, Paul.

Operator

Next question will be from Saurabh Mavedi at BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Speaker 8

Okay. Thank you. Eric, Perhaps some of these questions are going to be answered in more detail when you do your, I guess, spring strategic review On unveiling. But when you say the focus is on customer centricity or being more customer centric, Can you just elaborate what does that mean and how it would be different from how you are operating today or have been operating, I guess, over the last number of years?

Speaker 2

Well, one thing I can comment on, Saurabh, and thank you for the question, is definitely sharing best practices. As we've highlighted in the past quarters like our NPS from our commercial banking customers have been Quite exceptional. And we were able to actually build a strong culture around value added To our customer base in that particular segment and from the get go like it is Just a question of sharing those best practices. I think that I highlighted that in my intro in terms of appointing the right leaders to get that Expertise closer to our other business lines. So this is a start, but for sure As you mentioned, the plan will get us further there.

Speaker 8

Okay. And the other thing you mentioned, I think as you finished off your remarks, opening remarks was that you intend to remain a Strong Quebec based financial institution. And so I guess, I just wanted to see if you could comment as to whether or not As you are doing the strategic review, it may entail perhaps tightening the footprint Or was that just a generic statement? I just want to make sure I understand if the path forward, for example, on higher ROE may actually involve shrinking the bank a little bit.

Speaker 2

Well, Saurabh, no, I just think it's a fact. We are a Quebec based institution with activities across Canada and some specialties that go to North American scale. So Nothing to be decoded there except that our roots are deeply ingrained into the Quebec market.

Speaker 8

Okay. Understood. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Operator

Next question will be from Gabriel Dechaine at National Bank Financial. Please go ahead.

Speaker 9

Hi, good morning. I have a technical question on your NIM change explanation and then I want to Dive into the liquidity commentary and outlook a little bit more. But on the NIM One of the items you identified was that commercial and NII was Down. I'm just trying to understand why that is because if I look at balances, they were at least on a spot basis, they were flat. Maybe I'm missing something there.

Speaker 3

Thank you, Gabrielle. I'll take this one. So if you look at the end of Q3 versus the end of Q4, there's they're pretty much aligned. But the way it works is that you need to look at the average balance for the quarter. So if you look at Q3, there has been a reduction of $800,000,000 In commercial assets, which did not recur or reverse in Q4.

Speaker 3

So if you take that, apply a good margin, You're going to get to the explanation of the NIM.

Speaker 9

Got it. Okay. Then on the liquidity, and this is Probably one of these average balance things that I but if I do simple average using your spot balances and forgive me if you Disclosed these average liquidity balances somewhere, but if I just look at cash deposits with banks and securities, the ratio of Those liquid assets, the earning assets, it was up a bit sequentially, but pretty much in line with Previous quarters earlier this year and actually down versus last year. So doesn't look to me that you Dramatically increased liquidity or anything like that. So maybe I'll file this one in the technical questions as well.

Speaker 9

Maybe you can walk me through what I might be missing Or how you define liquidity perhaps. Some of this stuff doesn't get this quote.

Speaker 3

It's a good question Gabriel and unfortunately I would acknowledge that The details of a bank financials doesn't give you all the answers in relation to liquidity. But the way we look at liquidity Internally is what we call liquidity buffers. So the way that by example, we're guided by items like LCR and Yes. And other metrics, it looks at the commitments and what's coming and the inflows and the outflows and all of that. So unfortunately, you don't have all that But when you look at that, it's after you looked at the inflows, the net inflows versus outflows and the requirements of what you need, It's what we describe internally as the buffer of liquidity and that buffer of liquidity has been running higher than last quarter.

Speaker 9

Okay. And like I'm a bit surprised to hear you say you're going to take liquidity down over the next few quarters, maybe not Dramatically, but whittling away at it, whatever. I would think some given the issues, given The deposit base that's been well now shrinking in some areas that maybe some we'll call them outside observers would Want you to stick with higher liquidity ratios for an indeterminate period?

Speaker 3

Yes. Thank you for your question and happy to discuss about deposits and liquidity in general. But we have diversified and have a solid Funding in place of the bank, we've been running high in terms of liquidity. So the real key element here is that we've been running high And we did that in the context of the economy and we did that in the context of the recent events. But We have great customers.

Speaker 3

They've been resilient with us. There's been non material impact from the recent events. And at this point, Despite being prudent with the macroeconomic environment, we do have an excess buffer in terms of That we can take down a bit. So if we were running normal or low in terms of liquidity, I wouldn't tell you I would reduce. It's in the context We've been running high for a few quarters.

Speaker 3

So in that context, we have the availability to do that and that may be helpful.

Speaker 9

Okay. So when I look at the you're saying there's been no fallout from the well, at least from a customer standpoint, Retention standpoint, I see the personal deposits down a bit from last quarter, nothing crazy. But the business deposits were down 4%, 5%, that's normal course, nothing there's no nobody said, okay, I'm done with Laurentian or anything like that?

Speaker 3

Yes. 2 elements Gabriel. First, if you look at retail has been the customer base that's been impacted by the outage. There is a $15,000,000 variation over multi 1,000,000,000 of dollars of deposit. So I would call that definitely non material.

Speaker 3

It's not been impacted pretty much by the outage and we thank our customer base that's been Very trustworthy with us and loyal. So we appreciate that and we thank them for that. What you mentioned on the commercial Right. In fact, we bundle a few categories into that one. We also bundle what is called wholesale funding, You know the BDMs, FRN and SDN and most of the reduction has been in that category.

Speaker 3

So using less wholesale right now is good For anybody that can use less wholesale than just use their personal deposits, it's a great place to be. So it's also a reflection of the fact we've been running high in In terms of liquidity and for whatever is what we call also rate sensitive deposits, we didn't have to compete highly in the market. So we could take the opportunity to take that down a little bit as well. So overall, solid liquidity base And the deposits are very solid. They have not been materially impacted by the events.

Speaker 9

Got it. And then last one, I guess another technical one. The RWA deflation, so the 30 basis point boost to your capital ratio, can you explain that one to me? Was it some Lagged impact from the CAR guidelines or something like that?

Speaker 3

No, there's no specific changes to the CAR guidelines. It's a reflection of Some reduction and changes in the mix. But the way we look at it, yes, it's a bit yes. So it's mainly related to that.

Speaker 9

Okay. Thank you, Adrian.

Speaker 3

Thank you, Kevin.

Operator

And your next question will be from Darko Mihelic at RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Speaker 10

Hi, thank you. Good morning. My first question is, are you committing to earnings per share growth in 2024?

Speaker 2

Good morning, Darko.

Speaker 3

In fact, Darko, we're going to be reviewing the plan as we mentioned. So we're going to get back to you with more specific plans and more specific guidance. At this point, we're not providing guidance for the 2024.

Speaker 10

Okay. Thank you. A similar question Laurentian Bank has in the past cut its dividend. Are you committed to keeping the dividend at its current level for 2024?

Speaker 3

In fact, we just mentioned that we're holding on dividend increase this quarter based on the fact that the payout ratio of the bank has been pretty high. So the Board decided to act prudently in the economic environment and the Board decides every quarter The decision, so I think it's too early to discuss next dividend decision at this point.

Speaker 10

Okay. And the bank had a strategic review Last year, I guess there's a couple of questions around like is that going to be something that may occur More frequently at Laurentian as we go forward now, at the Board level. And I guess in a roundabout way where I'm coming from on this question is, There was some information circulating, I guess, in last year that perhaps there was someone looking to acquire Laurentian going forward. And I'm just curious if the strategic review could happen again In 2024. What is there any intention to sort of hold a strategic review every year going forward?

Speaker 2

Hi, Darko. It's Eric. I'm going to take this one. Listen, as it was announced mid September, like The strategic review was closed and decision was to actually pursue with accelerating and reducing Simplifying this organization. And this is what I'm committed to doing with our executive team.

Speaker 2

So I won't speculate about future years. What I can tell you is that me and the team will be working together to revamp the plan. We're comfortable right now about the business mix and how How we operate and how we've been able to focus on specialized aspects, mostly in our commercial Business lines, but the thing for sure, we'll put more emphasis on our customer where we bring value. We need to streamline and be a simpler bank, and we will keep investing in the foundational technology that will keep us In the right spot. So this is what I can share right now in terms of where we are.

Speaker 10

Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. One last question for me. Just given the existing business mix and your expectations, what would be A reasonable tax rate to assume for 2024?

Speaker 3

Yes, it's It's a good question. So I'll give it to you for next quarter for sure. So we're at 15% on an adjusted basis for Q4. I would expect that to be 1% to 2% higher, because the restructuring charges impacted the highest tax rate portion of the bank. So I would see gradually an increase of the tax rate over 2024 starting in Q1.

Speaker 10

Okay, great. Thank you very much for taking my questions.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Darko.

Operator

Next question will be from Lamar Prasad at Cormark. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Thank you. So maybe for Yvonne, you mentioned stable margin like relatively stable margins. Is that relatively stable to Q1? Or Was that relatively stable versus last year, so the full year?

Speaker 3

It's Relatively stable Q1 versus Q4. So that's the key element. Of course, like any other institution, we need See what's going to be happening to rates and the markets in general, but we can reassess that next quarter. But for the next quarter, Relatively in the same ballpark and potentially a bit better if we can reduce slightly liquidity.

Speaker 7

Okay. So it's just Q1. Okay. Understood. Yvonne, maybe sticking with you for a moment, can you Talk to any benefits from this quarter's restructuring charges?

Speaker 7

I think you'd mentioned the $8,000,000 cost savings from next quarter's restructuring, but I didn't hear anything for So should we see no savings from this quarter's or what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3

No, no, there are some definitely not to the same quantum of the Structuring because of the nature of them. The restructuring this quarter included mostly charges related To the management changes, so it will some of those have not been replaced. They will generate some savings, but overall not to the same quantum.

Speaker 7

Okay. And then maybe I'll switch over to Eric here just on that thought. Would it be fair to suggest you have the right management The team in place right now, so there's no more shifts we should expect on the top of the house. Is that a fair statement?

Speaker 2

Well, yes, well, with the recent appointments we just made, Lamar, like I think surrounding me is the right team and We'll work together to again focus on our structure and simplifying the organization. So right now, I have the right level of experts with me to achieve this revamp plan.

Speaker 7

Got you. And then last one for me. I know you're still assessing the go forward strategy and you're going to provide more details in the spring, but It sounded like based on your comments, you have some pretty strong thoughts on what you could do on the expense side. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. But Could you talk to broadly speaking like where do you see the areas of low hanging fruit?

Speaker 7

You already talked about the employee reduction and restructuring charge next quarter. But maybe even if broadly, like what are some other areas that you think you could find substantial cost savings?

Speaker 2

Yes. Thank you, Lamar. Well, I think that the low hanging fruits we actually executed on this week. So the reduction of 2% of our workforce were the ones that The team felt comfortable executing upon, and all the rest will be part of our overall Review, and we have to rethink. Like I said, we need to be simpler, more focused on the customer.

Speaker 2

We need to share best practices From our commercial banking operations and then this is what the team will tackle in the next few months.

Speaker 7

Thanks. That's it for me.

Speaker 2

Thank you. Thank you, Lamar.

Operator

Next question will be from Marcel MacLean at TD Securities. Please go ahead.

Speaker 11

Okay. Thanks very much. Maybe continuing with Eric on similar line of questioning from Lamar there. I know I can appreciate you've been seeing only 2 months here, but are there any areas of the bank that maybe you're Thinking about doubling down on or perhaps stepping away from like, if we're not going to get maybe a sale of the bank of Total Bank, are there assets There are certain businesses you want to exit that you see? Just kind of want to get your thoughts, early thoughts there.

Speaker 2

Yes. Thank you, Marcel. From a macro perspective right now, we're in a situation where we still need to take cautious approach in terms of how we see Future. What I can tell you is that we feel good about our current business mix. But part of revamping the plan will be to make sure that we make the right approach and decisioning in terms of How we put even more emphasis on where we add value to our customers.

Speaker 2

So this will be done across our business lines. I did commit to making us a simpler organization and a better one. So again, like we'll see out there We can end with the right approach, but right now too early to tell. We'll be back in the spring with more details.

Speaker 11

Thanks for that. And then just my second question, I apologize if I missed this earlier, I had to jump off briefly. But The inventory finance volumes down year over year, I think it was 2% or something. But maybe I'm wrong there, but the Correct me if I am. But my understanding is you've added a lot of partners there.

Speaker 11

So why I understand there's seasonality on the quarter over Why are we down selling on year over year?

Speaker 2

Yes, Marshall. Well, usually what we see in our 4th quarter Due to the seasonality you just mentioned is an increase of utilization of our line of credits to our dealers. Last year, just to give you an example, we were running at about 54% utilization at End of Q4. And now at the end of this Q4, we landed at 48% utilization, which means that Our dealers are taking a more cautious approach toward the 2024 season and we're good with that in terms of Taking that prudent approach, not being quite sure about the overall traction they're going to get is the right way to manage this type of business, And this is what explains the reduction overall in terms of year over year asset from that business side.

Speaker 11

Okay. Got it. Okay. That's it for me. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Marcin.

Operator

Thank you. That is all the time we have for questions. I would now like to turn the meeting over to Eric.

Speaker 2

Thank you for joining the call today. One thing is certain, The status quo at Laurentian Bank is no longer an option, and we will seize this opportunity to continue our simplification efforts in order to improve our customer experience. We have a lot of work ahead of us as we revamp our strategic plan and continue to implement our priorities of customer focus, simplifying the bank and making investments in our foundational technology. I would like to once again thank our employees for their continued resilience and effort for the organization. I wish you all happy holidays and look forward to speaking again in the New Year.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this does indeed conclude your conference call for today. Once again, thank you for attending. And at this time, we do ask that you please disconnect your lines.

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Earnings Conference Call
Laurentian Bank of Canada Q4 2023
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