Trinity Industries Q1 2023 Earnings Report $25.54 +0.30 (+1.19%) As of 03:58 PM Eastern Earnings HistoryForecast Trinity Industries EPS ResultsActual EPS$0.07Consensus EPS $0.32Beat/MissMissed by -$0.25One Year Ago EPS$0.03Trinity Industries Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$641.70 millionExpected Revenue$654.63 millionBeat/MissMissed by -$12.93 millionYoY Revenue Growth+35.80%Trinity Industries Announcement DetailsQuarterQ1 2023Date5/2/2023TimeBefore Market OpensConference Call DateTuesday, May 2, 2023Conference Call Time8:00AM ETUpcoming EarningsTrinity Industries' Q1 2025 earnings is scheduled for Tuesday, April 29, 2025, with a conference call scheduled on Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:00 AM ET. Check back for transcripts, audio, and key financial metrics as they become available.Conference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptSlide DeckPress Release (8-K)Quarterly Report (10-Q)SEC FilingEarnings HistoryTRN ProfileSlide DeckFull Screen Slide DeckPowered by Trinity Industries Q1 2023 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrMay 2, 2023 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 8 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good day, and welcome to the Trinity Industries First Quarter Ended 31st March 2023 Results Conference Call. All participants will be in the listen only mode. Please note today's event is being recorded. Before we get started, let me remind you that today's conference call contains forward looking statements as defined by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and includes statements as to estimates, expectations, intentions and predictions of future financial performance. Statements that are not historical facts are forward looking. Operator00:01:00Participants are directed to Trinity's Form 10 ks and other SEC filings for a description of certain of the business issues and risks, a change in any of which could cause actual results or outcomes to differ materially from those expressed in the forward looking statements. I would now like to turn the conference over to Lianne Mann, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead. Speaker 100:01:29Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us for the company's Q1 2023 financial results Prepared remarks will include comments from Gene Savage, Trinity's Chief Executive Officer and President and Eric Marchetto, the company's Chief Financial Officer. We will hold a Q and A session following the prepared remarks from our leaders. During the call today, we will reference slides highlighting key key points of discussion as well as certain non GAAP financial metrics. Speaker 100:01:57The reconciliations of the non GAAP metrics to comparable GAAP measures are provided in the appendix of the supplemental slides, which are accessible on our Investor Relations website at www.trends.net. These slides are under the Events and Presentations portion of the website, along with the Q1 earnings conference call is at length. A replay of today's call will be available after 10:30 a. M. Eastern Time through midnight on May 9, It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Jean. Speaker 200:02:35Thank you, Leanne, and good morning, everyone. I'll start on Slide 3 to talk about our key messages from today's call, which we will expand on later in our prepared remarks. Our first quarter GAAP EPS from continuing operations was 0 point 0 $9 and adjusted EPS from continuing operations was 0 point 0 $7 up $0.04 year over year. We ended the quarter with our teacher lease rate differential, or FLRD, at 44.3%. The FLRD calculates the implied change in lease rates for railcar leases expiring over the next 4 quarters by applying the most recently transacted quarterly lease rate for each railcar type. Speaker 200:03:21And our lease fleet utilization improved this quarter to 98.2%, reinforcing that the railcar market remains tight. We are reconfirming our 2023 EPS guidance of $1.50 to 1.70 We are confident in our ability to achieve these results as we look forward in 2023. We expect to see segment operating margins up significantly as we take advantage of the operating leverage of the business, manufacturing backlog and strong railcar lease environment. And finally, in the first quarter, we completed our acquisition of RSI Logistics, a data centric provider of proprietary rail logistics software and Management Solutions. I'll discuss this acquisition and how it fits into our digital strategy later in my prepared remarks. Speaker 200:04:21And now let's turn to Slide 4 for a market update. Starting on the top left, despite intermodal pulling down rail traffic, Carloads are up almost 4% year over year. We're encouraged to see that rail service issues appear to be improving with higher train speeds and shorter dwell time. But overall performance still has room to improve. Nearshoring activities, trucking labor headwinds and heightened interest in ESG continue to foster pent up demand for rail transportation. Speaker 200:04:57Even as railroad service continues to improve, the pent up demand will continue to drive more rail volume despite uncertain Macroeconomic conditions. Moving to the top right graph, the continued railroad service headwinds are keeping populations of the North American railcar fleet out of storage. At the beginning of April, the AAR reported that more than 82% of the fleet was active, representing a meaningful month over month and year over year improvement. Covered hoppers primarily for agricultural markets and open hoppers for construction materials, metals and coal have seen the greatest recent improvement. It's also worth noting that tank cars are at the lowest level of storage since this metric began in 2016. Speaker 200:05:51Moving to the bottom of this slide, Positive commercial momentum continues for our lease fleet. I have already mentioned that our FLRD is above 44%, which is a significant step up from last quarter. What we find especially encouraging is that we see improvement in virtually all railcar types and our fleet. The highest increases are coming from our tank car fleet, which has lagged the freight car recovery in recent years. Our lease fleet utilization improved to 98.2%, and we remain optimistic about lease rate growth in the coming quarters given the tight existing railcar market, higher interest rates and the current inflationary environment. Speaker 200:06:37Furthermore, as we lock in substantially higher lease rates, we are also increasing the term of the leases, which gives us confidence in longer term revenue generation. We delivered 4,045 railcars in the quarter and received orders for 2,690. We exited the 1st quarter with a backlog of 30,915 railcars valued at $3,700,000,000 Inquiry levels remain supportive of replacement level demand over the next several years, especially in several key railcar fleets, including covered hoppers, gondolas, auto racks and boxcars. We have been Furthermore, this recovery has been supply led, which has made for a stable market driven by replacement level demand. Slide 5 shows the Q1 performance year over year. Speaker 200:07:46Our quarterly revenue of $642,000,000 was up 36% compared to a year ago, and our 1st quarter adjusted EPS of $0.07 was up 133%. While our cash flow from continuing operations in the quarter of $103,000,000 was up 2 60%, our adjusted free cash flow of $36,000,000 was down 24%. Many moving pieces drove these numbers and the timing of railcar sales create variability in free cash flow. I want to start by talking about segment performance and later Eric will discuss cash flow. Please turn with me to Slide 6 for segment results, starting at the top with the leasing segment. Speaker 200:08:39Leasing segment revenue in the Q1 of $204,000,000 reflects improved renewal rates and higher utilization. Our renewal success rate of 80% in the quarter, increased utilization and a high FLRD are evidence that market rates are rising and customers are holding on to their railcars and understand the economics of a tight market with elevated interest rates and rising lease rates. Our FLRD has been positive for 7 consecutive quarters. And as we continue to raise lease rates, we expect continued revenue growth in this segment. Leasing and management operating profit margins were 35.4% in the Q1. Speaker 200:09:28Margins were slightly down sequentially due to increased maintenance expense as well as depreciation expenses because of higher sustainable railcar conversion activity. Remember, sustainable railcar conversions are a cash accretive action for Trinity as they extend the usable life of assets at attractive return on invested capital. We expect leasing margins to improve as lease rates push upward and these expenses stabilized. In the Rail Products segment, quarterly revenue was slightly down sequentially due to a lower volume of deliveries compared to the Q4. However, segment revenue was up 63% year over year, reflecting significantly higher deliveries in manufacturing. Speaker 200:10:21Our operating margins in the Rail Products segment came in at 4% in the Q1, an improvement sequentially and year over year. However, these margins are still lower than we would like and reflect a challenging labor environment. The accelerated pace of hiring and onboarding has affected productivity given the volume of new employees and the need for training. While these issues, along with continued rail service and supply chain issues, continue to affect us through the Q1, we see improvement across the board. We are optimistic that we are through the worst. Speaker 200:11:02All that to say, we expect to see operating margin improve substantially through the year and expect high single digit margins in this segment. Turning to Slide 7. We remain focused on our strategic initiatives. And this quarter, I want to highlight the work we're doing to improve the Rail Supply Chain. As I mentioned at the top of the call, we completed our acquisition of RSI Logistics, a data centric provider of proprietary software and logistics and terminal management solutions to the North American rail industry. Speaker 200:11:39We are excited about this acquisition and the capabilities it gives us. I want to step back and talk about our rail services journey and how this acquisition fits into the future state of our business. Please turn to Slide 8. Our proprietary TrendSight platform was enhanced with our acquisition of Quasar last year. These businesses give us access and insights into unique data and analytics about railcars, including asset health, shipment condition, location and yard management. Speaker 200:12:15The RSI Logistics acquisitions added a full suite of logistics capabilities to our digital portfolio, including shipment execution software and services to efficiently manage rail logistics, Transloading and Warehousing Solutions. Our goal is to help our customers optimize their supply chain by making shipments more visible and data real time and easily accessible. We are creating an end to end platform to help We are working with industry leaders and channel partners toward broader network integration and optimization through initiatives like railcars. Customer feedback on the RSI acquisition has been very positive. Specifically, their transloading and turnkey rail logistics solutions are seen as leaders in the industry, giving our customers an enhanced offering all in one place. Speaker 200:13:23We look forward to continuing the integration of this business into Trinity as we work toward a better digital solution for rail shippers. Eric will talk about full year expectations in a minute, but I wanted to close by talking about some of the key themes we are seeing that keep us optimistic. We significantly ramped up hiring in the Q4 of 2022 and the Q1 of 2023 and are spending time training those employees. We believe labor has largely stabilized and we expect substantial Efficiency improvement with a more experienced employee base in the second half of the year. The rail services issues that supply chain. Speaker 200:14:18We have learned to operate through it and do not view this as a significant issue in the future. We expect revenue to improve on both sides of our business with higher deliveries and lease rates. We expect margin improvement on both sides of our business with better efficiency and moderated maintenance expenses. While our Q1 results were dampened, the fundamental strength in our industry is evident and we are excited about the year ahead as those trends persist and we see an easing of the headwinds. And finally, since we last spoke in February, I'm proud to report that Trinity has released our 2022 annual report and will soon file our 2023 corporate social responsibility report. Speaker 200:15:09Regarding our CSR report, we made progress as a company, and I wanted to preview a few highlights to the report with you today. First, we've achieved our 3rd party limited assurance of Scope 1 and Scope 2 greenhouse gas metrics. Also for the first time, we are tying executive compensation to environmental metrics like year over year energy reduction and water usage. Diversity, equity and inclusion metrics will continue to be connected to compensation as well. Our CSR report has excellent information and I encourage you to check it out and hold us accountable for continued improvement. Speaker 200:15:51In terms of safety, we have reduced our non fatal occupational injuries and illnesses by 27% over the last 3 years. I'm proud to say that by putting safety first and always focusing on continuous improvement, we are now 40% better than the industry. And now I'll turn the call over to Eric to review our financial results. Speaker 300:16:16Good morning, everyone. Please turn to Slide 9, where we will discuss consolidated financial results. In the Q1, revenue of $642,000,000 improved sequentially and year over year due to higher external railcar deliveries and improved pricing. Our adjusted earnings per share of $0.07 was up year over year, but down sequentially due to lower lease portfolio sales in the Q1. Lease portfolio sales were $57,000,000 in the 1st quarter with a gain of $14,000,000 Our earnings were aided by a 2 17 percent tax benefit. Speaker 300:16:59Several moving pieces affected our tax rate in the quarter I'll discuss those briefly. In our Tripp Leasing subsidiary, we released stranded tax assets previously recorded in AOCI and recorded an income tax benefit of $11,900,000 $7,500,000 of which relates to non controlling interest. This results in a net $4,400,000 positive impact on net income. Our tax rate also benefited by a $4,000,000 change in valuation allowances. These items were partially offset by a remeasurement of net deferred tax liabilities due to the RSI acquisition, resulting in an increase in deferred tax expense of $3,200,000 in the quarter. Speaker 300:17:54Moving to the cash flow statement. Our cash flow from continued operations in the quarter was $103,000,000 and adjusted free cash flow was $36,000,000 after investments and dividends. We did not repurchase any shares in the quarter, we paid $21,000,000 in dividends. In terms of investing activity, our fleet additions totaled $192,000,000 including deliveries, modifications and secondary market additions, offset by lease portfolio sales of $57,000,000 bringing our net fleet investment in the quarter to $135,000,000 Lease portfolio sales were low in the quarter We expect this number to be fairly lumpy through the year, but we are on track for our net fleet investment full year guidance of 250 to $350,000,000 Our investment of $7,000,000 in manufacturing and general capital expenditures is also on pace for our full year guidance. Turning to Slide 10, we currently have liquidity of $451,000,000 which includes cash and equivalents, revolver availability and warehouse availability. Speaker 300:19:09In the Q1, we amended our revolving credit facility to increase the total facility commitment from $450,000,000 to $600,000,000 to enhance our liquidity and flexibility. We are maintaining higher working capital, which will be necessary to Higher levels of deliveries in the current supply chain landscape. Higher interest rates have impacted our debt profile. Our debt remains approximately 80% fixed rate, but the impact of higher short term rates along with higher debt balances has increased our interest expense over the last year. In the Q1, net interest expense of $62,000,000 was up $19,000,000 year over year and we had headwinds to our earnings this year. Speaker 300:19:58And finally, our loan to value for the wholly owned lease portfolio is 65%, in line with our target range. I'll conclude my prepared remarks on Slide 11 with our outlook and guidance. Our outlook remains relatively unchanged from our Q4 call. We view North American industry deliveries in the range of 40,000 to 45,000 railcars, representing replacement level demand. We expect a net lease fleet investment of $250,000,000 to $350,000,000 for the year, in line with our 3 year target. Speaker 300:20:39We expect manufacturing and general capital expenditures of $40,000,000 to $50,000,000 for the year, representing investments in safety, efficiency and automation. We expect to achieve our revised 3 year cash flow from operations target of $1,200,000,000 to $1,400,000,000 And finally, we are affirming our 2023 adjusted EPS from continued operations guidance of $1.50 to $1.70 per share. Given that we reported $0.07 in the first quarter, We believe that this guidance shows that we expect meaningful improvement in our Rail Group margins in the second half of the year and continued lease rate increases in the leasing segment. In conclusion, as we have increased deliveries over the last several quarters, we have not been able to achieve the necessary efficiency levels to get the margins we expect. As more of our employees are onboarded and trained, we expect to see that efficiency improve and financial results reflect that as the year progresses. Speaker 300:21:47As we said last quarter, improvement does not happen overnight, but the work we have done to attract, train and retain our workforce will be visible in our results as the year progresses. And we look forward to sharing our progress with you. And now operator, we are ready for the first question. Operator00:22:10Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Our first question comes from the line of Justin Long from Stephens. Please go ahead. Speaker 400:22:51Thanks and good morning. Good morning. Maybe to Start with a question on Rail Products Group margins. Gene, I think you said that the guidance was for high single digit margins. I wanted to clarify that that was a full year 2023 guide. Speaker 400:23:12And if so, Maybe you can help us think about the quarterly cadence. Eric, a moment ago, I think you made a comment that margins would Improve in the second half. So I just wanted to understand, are you expecting sequential improvement in margins in the second quarter? And then Maybe where we go in the second half in order to get to that high single digit target? Speaker 200:23:38Great question, Justin. Let me talk a little bit about the progression of the year to help you understand what we're seeing. So in the first half of the year, In Rail Products, we have 2 thirds of the year's changeover occurring. 1st quarter, we had about a third of those. So We also talked about being able to hire finally in the Q1. Speaker 200:24:01That was really great. We have the people we need now to get the Throughput we need, but it also presented the training headwinds. If you look at our top 2 or largest plants for manufacturing, 20% of the workforce has less than 6 months. Typically, they're in training for 3 months And then you're ramping on the efficiency for at least the next 3 months. So we expect to see that continue into the second quarter as Some of those people will stay in training or getting up to speed. Speaker 200:24:37In the Q1, good news, we saw some rail service and Supply chain improvements, which is great. We expect that to continue into the second quarter. And again, in the first half, we expect more cars to deliver into our fleet and you'll see more of that in the second quarter. Looking at the second half of the year in Rail Products, we're going to have the remaining 1 third of the changeovers. And it's a few less in the Q3 than this month, but fairly even there on that. Speaker 200:25:13We're also looking at The maintain better rail service, the supply chain continuing to improve and more importantly, that Training complete and the efficiency still ramping up. So I would expect improvement through the year. I would expect the second half to be much greater than the first half. Does that answer the question, Justin? Speaker 400:25:38That's a lot of helpful detail. And given the Q1 was roughly 4%, To get to that high single digit full year target, it suggests the exit rate might be above the high single digits. Is that fair? Speaker 200:25:56So I would say with high single digits overall for the number that we're looking at To access the year with? Yes. Speaker 400:26:07Okay. Okay. Got it. And then maybe as my follow-up for Eric, there was a lot of noise on the tax rate and you walked through some of the puts and takes there. But I guess, one, I'd like to know why you felt That should be included in the adjusted number and then maybe any color you can give us on the tax Great going forward. Speaker 400:26:31And in addition to that, would love some thoughts on gains on sale going forward too. Speaker 300:26:37Yes. So Jess, I think we I did walk through all the pieces of the kind of three elements of it. And While those were not included in our forecast for the year and our guidance, we did include them in our We did not adjust them out. We felt that they were related to our core business and so we didn't adjust them out. In terms of and also note because a lot of that came a lot of the benefit came out through minority interest. Speaker 300:27:12And so the net impact for the quarter was not as great as the headline might indicate because of it coming out in minority interest. In terms of car sales, so we had modest car sales in the Q1. Yes. Reminder, we still have year 3 of our LAFRA program in place, which likely will be in the second half of the year. The market for secondary market still remains relatively good. Speaker 300:27:44We're Active in the market both as buyers and sellers and we see opportunities. We see opportunities both on the buy side and the sell side. And so I would characterize this as pretty healthy. You might think because of higher interest rates that would have cooled off the market. I think what we see is that buyers are pricing in future lease rate increases And therefore, you're assuming that lease rate inflation continues. Speaker 300:28:17And so that has supported Valuations recently that we've seen there supported going forward. Speaker 400:28:28Got it. That's very helpful. I appreciate the time. Speaker 500:28:31Yes. Operator00:28:35Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Bascome Majors from Susquehanna. Please go ahead. Speaker 600:28:43Good morning. You're talking about getting your labor force slowly up to Speed and your desired productivity, but you're facing off against a moderately weakening railcar order environment. So I just wanted to walk through the contingency or the ability to avoid reducing the labor force In an environment where maybe railcar production needs to fall later this year, early next year, and then having to go back and backfill yet again after The challenges of hiring in Northern Mexico over the last 2 or 3 quarters. Speaker 200:29:22So as we look at The workforce right now, Bascome, what we're seeing is we've got the majority of all of our space filled for this year, taking orders Into next year. So the people we have will help us, 1, reduce overtime, as they come in and are more efficient, so that lessens that headwind. And as we get them trained, we're still seeing Fluctuation, we don't believe you're going to see the high peaks and valleys, that we've seen in previous cycles. We think this one's going to be a little flatter, which will help us maintain that workforce and not have to go through the cycle of retraining again. Speaker 600:30:15Okay. So it sounds like at least into early next year, you have very good visibility into a fairly steady production cadence. Speaker 200:30:24That's correct. Speaker 600:30:26And just to clarify Justin's question, The mid single I'm sorry, the high single digit margin comment, that was an exit rate and not a full year number. I just want to clarify there. Speaker 200:30:40The full year is a high single digit number. The exit rate will be stronger than the entry rate. Speaker 600:30:49Yes. Understood. And lastly, the lease rate differential number was Considerably strong. I want to bring some more attention to that. You mentioned tank cars in the prepared remarks. Speaker 600:31:02Can you walk us through in a little more granular detail? How is that Ramping up so quickly, how sustainable is that level of renewal price increases? And are there any quirks about the Q1 That really juiced that number versus where we should think that might settle in the second half of the year or something. Speaker 200:31:22Sure. So when we look at this recovery, it's really supply driven. And we're seeing increases in interest rates, new car costs are higher, And we don't see that coming down anytime soon, the interest rates or even the car prices because it's really stabilized. So those will support the higher rates for longer. Some of the reasons we believe that is the FLRD is the 44.3%. Speaker 200:31:49The fact that the utilization went up to 98.2 percent and the fact that our lease term actually extended in the Q1. In 2022, we averaged about 47 months, and the Q1 of this year, it extended out to 61 months. So what that's telling us that market is still tight, that they still really want those cars that are out there existing. And when we look at new car prices as compared to our lease or our existing cars, there's still a Fraction on the lease pricing. So there's a lot of headroom between the new car price and that new price rate and the existing car rate. Speaker 300:32:35Thank you. Operator00:32:40Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Matt Elkott from TD Cowen. Please go ahead. Speaker 500:32:48Good morning. Thank you. My first question is on demand environment. We saw some of the rails turn into Park locomotives, U and Ps, parking 100 CSX might do something similar. I know that the rails have in past cycles Return some railcars as well when they come off leases. Speaker 500:33:10Are you guys seeing any signs that the railroads might be Contemplating similar steps with railcars as locomotives as their traffic remains stubbornly low. Speaker 200:33:23Okay. Well, Matt, I'm going to start out with the non intermodal volumes are still up year over year And really being driven with automotive, agriculture, energy still there. The headwinds are really in the intermodal and chemical. I think you know that we are not exposed on the intermodal for our lease fleet at all and that is definitely helping us. We've not heard or seen actual request to return. Speaker 200:33:52We're actually still seeing very strong inquiries and the railroads are a big part of Speaker 500:33:59That's helpful, Gene. And then, staying on the demand front, service It's improving. I mean, by many measures, it's still below 2019 levels, but it looks like it's heading in that direction, in the right direction for the rails. And I know that's a tailwind. That's a good thing for you guys long term, but we all know that in the intermediate term, it can be A headwind to equipment demand, you couple that with the fact that traffic in general is down. Speaker 500:34:32I mean, are you surprised that lease rates are holding up as well as they are? Just any kind of Sense you have on what demand might look like going forward? Speaker 200:34:45Okay. Well, We still believe there's pent up demand for the rail traffic loads that want to go on to rail that have not been able to. We're encouraged by the railroads Improving their overall service metrics. We're also encouraged. I don't know if you saw the Trains Magazine article that talked about Incentives going in at NS, CSX and UP, with a shift towards growth. Speaker 200:35:12I think you're hearing that talk a lot more. And We don't think that will come to fruition overnight, but we think that will help in the long term. And when you look at overall the pricing for leasing, we're not surprised. Again, when we look at the cost of a new car and what those rates will be, Still a lot higher, a lot of headroom from the existing lease freight prices. So we expect that delta to continue to come down And those prices to get closer. Speaker 500:35:44Okay. And now one last follow-up on the secondary market front. I mean, I think, Eric, you talked about The market continuing to be strong. Given the liquidity issues in the banking sector and The banks trying to boost their balance sheets. Do you think some of the bank owned fleet, whether large or small, maybe more likely to go for sale in the next couple of quarters. Speaker 300:36:11Matt, I don't know. There's certainly been rumors of Deals in the market, at the end of the day, it comes down to you need a willing buyer and a willing seller. And I think When you look at those assets in the bank owned portfolios, I think generally you're going to see those assets are improving and the yield on those assets Are improving. So the need to the ability to wait it out is probably there because They're going to benefit from the same things we're talking about in terms of higher lease rates. And so I think Yes, it depends on what they decide to do. Speaker 300:36:56But in the meantime, I think they're going to benefit from higher yields on those assets. Speaker 500:37:01But do you guys have like a sweet spot as to how big of a fleet you might go you might be interested in or is there is size and not necessary? Speaker 300:37:12We don't have any stated goals. I think we have scale. Our fleet of roughly 110,000 RevPARs on our balance sheet provides scale. And it comes down to allocating our capital and improving the returns of the business. Yes, I think when we've talked over the last several years about modest fleet growth, I think that's still what we're looking to do. Speaker 300:37:40If there was something that came along that doesn't mean we're not interested, it's going to be at the right return. Speaker 500:37:48Great. Thank you very much. Operator00:37:54Thank Our next question comes from the line of Steve Barger from KeyBanc. Please go ahead. Speaker 700:38:09Hey, good morning. This is Jacob Moore on for Steve this morning. My first question just as a sort of a follow-up to a previous question. We saw 1st quarter industry orders yesterday annualized around 33,000. So I'm just curious as you sit here about a month in, how would you compare 2Q to date To 1Q in terms of order inquiry and activity. Speaker 200:38:30So the inquiry activity still remains with our belief of replacement demand. And a lot of that is driven by certain card types. And I will say that certain customers or some customers are delaying the decision to go ahead and place the order as they look at the macroeconomic uncertainty. But again, overall, the inquiries would support The replacement demand for us. Speaker 700:39:02Okay, got it. Thank you. And then for the second question, Going back to the Holden acquisition, if I read the 10 ks correctly, there wasn't much in the way of physical assets in that acquisition, maybe some backlog. So my question is what assets did you buy and could you or would you be willing to provide us with trailing 12 months revenue and EBITDA? Speaker 300:39:23So, yes, Jacob, you're right. There are not a lot of assets on the business. That was a capital light Business that had some very attractive proprietary products supporting the auto rack market. In terms of breaking out individual performance, at this time, we're not going to break out the individual performance. It was a relatively small acquisition, but we think it's something that will complement Our parts business and continue to grow and as it becomes more meaningful then we'll talk about it more going forward. Speaker 700:40:04Okay, understood. Thanks for taking the questions. Speaker 300:40:06Thanks, Jacob. Operator00:40:12Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Jean Savage for any closing remarks. Speaker 200:40:23Well, thank you, and thank you again everyone for joining us this morning. We believe 2023 is going to be a great year for Trinity with significant improvements through the year in terms of revenue and operating profit in both our operating segments. We do have a talented and motivated workforce, and we look forward to sharing our progress with you through the year. Thank you again for your continued support. Operator00:40:50Thank you. The conference of Trinity Industries has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines.Read moreRemove AdsPowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallTrinity Industries Q1 202300:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2xRemove Ads Earnings DocumentsSlide DeckPress Release(8-K)Quarterly report(10-Q) Trinity Industries Earnings HeadlinesTrinity Industries, Inc. Declares Quarterly DividendMarch 31, 2025 | businesswire.comDoes This Valuation Of Trinity Industries, Inc. 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Email Address About Trinity IndustriesTrinity Industries (NYSE:TRN) provides rail transportation products and services under the TrinityRail name in North America. It operates in two segments, Railcar Leasing and Management Services Group, and Rail Products Group. The Railcar Leasing and Management Services Group segment leases freight and tank railcars; originates and manages railcar leases for third-party investors; and provides fleet maintenance and management services. As of December 31, 2023, it had a fleet of 109,295 railcars. This segment serves industrial shipper and railroad companies operating in agriculture, construction and metals, consumer products, energy, and refined products and chemicals markets. The Rail Products Group segment manufactures freight and tank railcars for transporting various liquids, gases, and dry cargo; and offers railcar maintenance and modification services. This segment serves railroads, leasing companies, and industrial shippers of products in the agriculture, construction and metals, consumer products, energy, and refined products and chemicals markets. It sells or leases products and services through its own sales personnel and independent sales representatives. The company was incorporated in 1933 and is headquartered in Dallas, Texas.View Trinity Industries ProfileRead more More Earnings Resources from MarketBeat Earnings Tools Today's Earnings Tomorrow's Earnings Next Week's Earnings Upcoming Earnings Calls Earnings Newsletter Earnings Call Transcripts Earnings Beats & Misses Corporate Guidance Earnings Screener Earnings By Country U.S. Earnings Reports Canadian Earnings Reports U.K. Earnings Reports Latest Articles Why Analysts Boosted United Airlines Stock Ahead of EarningsLamb Weston Stock Rises, Earnings Provide Calm Amidst ChaosIntuitive Machines Gains After Earnings Beat, NASA Missions AheadCintas Delivers Earnings Beat, Signals More Growth AheadNike Stock Dips on Earnings: Analysts Weigh in on What’s NextAfter Massive Post Earnings Fall, Does Hope Remain for MongoDB?Semtech Rallies on Earnings Beat—Is There More Upside? 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There are 8 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good day, and welcome to the Trinity Industries First Quarter Ended 31st March 2023 Results Conference Call. All participants will be in the listen only mode. Please note today's event is being recorded. Before we get started, let me remind you that today's conference call contains forward looking statements as defined by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and includes statements as to estimates, expectations, intentions and predictions of future financial performance. Statements that are not historical facts are forward looking. Operator00:01:00Participants are directed to Trinity's Form 10 ks and other SEC filings for a description of certain of the business issues and risks, a change in any of which could cause actual results or outcomes to differ materially from those expressed in the forward looking statements. I would now like to turn the conference over to Lianne Mann, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead. Speaker 100:01:29Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us for the company's Q1 2023 financial results Prepared remarks will include comments from Gene Savage, Trinity's Chief Executive Officer and President and Eric Marchetto, the company's Chief Financial Officer. We will hold a Q and A session following the prepared remarks from our leaders. During the call today, we will reference slides highlighting key key points of discussion as well as certain non GAAP financial metrics. Speaker 100:01:57The reconciliations of the non GAAP metrics to comparable GAAP measures are provided in the appendix of the supplemental slides, which are accessible on our Investor Relations website at www.trends.net. These slides are under the Events and Presentations portion of the website, along with the Q1 earnings conference call is at length. A replay of today's call will be available after 10:30 a. M. Eastern Time through midnight on May 9, It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Jean. Speaker 200:02:35Thank you, Leanne, and good morning, everyone. I'll start on Slide 3 to talk about our key messages from today's call, which we will expand on later in our prepared remarks. Our first quarter GAAP EPS from continuing operations was 0 point 0 $9 and adjusted EPS from continuing operations was 0 point 0 $7 up $0.04 year over year. We ended the quarter with our teacher lease rate differential, or FLRD, at 44.3%. The FLRD calculates the implied change in lease rates for railcar leases expiring over the next 4 quarters by applying the most recently transacted quarterly lease rate for each railcar type. Speaker 200:03:21And our lease fleet utilization improved this quarter to 98.2%, reinforcing that the railcar market remains tight. We are reconfirming our 2023 EPS guidance of $1.50 to 1.70 We are confident in our ability to achieve these results as we look forward in 2023. We expect to see segment operating margins up significantly as we take advantage of the operating leverage of the business, manufacturing backlog and strong railcar lease environment. And finally, in the first quarter, we completed our acquisition of RSI Logistics, a data centric provider of proprietary rail logistics software and Management Solutions. I'll discuss this acquisition and how it fits into our digital strategy later in my prepared remarks. Speaker 200:04:21And now let's turn to Slide 4 for a market update. Starting on the top left, despite intermodal pulling down rail traffic, Carloads are up almost 4% year over year. We're encouraged to see that rail service issues appear to be improving with higher train speeds and shorter dwell time. But overall performance still has room to improve. Nearshoring activities, trucking labor headwinds and heightened interest in ESG continue to foster pent up demand for rail transportation. Speaker 200:04:57Even as railroad service continues to improve, the pent up demand will continue to drive more rail volume despite uncertain Macroeconomic conditions. Moving to the top right graph, the continued railroad service headwinds are keeping populations of the North American railcar fleet out of storage. At the beginning of April, the AAR reported that more than 82% of the fleet was active, representing a meaningful month over month and year over year improvement. Covered hoppers primarily for agricultural markets and open hoppers for construction materials, metals and coal have seen the greatest recent improvement. It's also worth noting that tank cars are at the lowest level of storage since this metric began in 2016. Speaker 200:05:51Moving to the bottom of this slide, Positive commercial momentum continues for our lease fleet. I have already mentioned that our FLRD is above 44%, which is a significant step up from last quarter. What we find especially encouraging is that we see improvement in virtually all railcar types and our fleet. The highest increases are coming from our tank car fleet, which has lagged the freight car recovery in recent years. Our lease fleet utilization improved to 98.2%, and we remain optimistic about lease rate growth in the coming quarters given the tight existing railcar market, higher interest rates and the current inflationary environment. Speaker 200:06:37Furthermore, as we lock in substantially higher lease rates, we are also increasing the term of the leases, which gives us confidence in longer term revenue generation. We delivered 4,045 railcars in the quarter and received orders for 2,690. We exited the 1st quarter with a backlog of 30,915 railcars valued at $3,700,000,000 Inquiry levels remain supportive of replacement level demand over the next several years, especially in several key railcar fleets, including covered hoppers, gondolas, auto racks and boxcars. We have been Furthermore, this recovery has been supply led, which has made for a stable market driven by replacement level demand. Slide 5 shows the Q1 performance year over year. Speaker 200:07:46Our quarterly revenue of $642,000,000 was up 36% compared to a year ago, and our 1st quarter adjusted EPS of $0.07 was up 133%. While our cash flow from continuing operations in the quarter of $103,000,000 was up 2 60%, our adjusted free cash flow of $36,000,000 was down 24%. Many moving pieces drove these numbers and the timing of railcar sales create variability in free cash flow. I want to start by talking about segment performance and later Eric will discuss cash flow. Please turn with me to Slide 6 for segment results, starting at the top with the leasing segment. Speaker 200:08:39Leasing segment revenue in the Q1 of $204,000,000 reflects improved renewal rates and higher utilization. Our renewal success rate of 80% in the quarter, increased utilization and a high FLRD are evidence that market rates are rising and customers are holding on to their railcars and understand the economics of a tight market with elevated interest rates and rising lease rates. Our FLRD has been positive for 7 consecutive quarters. And as we continue to raise lease rates, we expect continued revenue growth in this segment. Leasing and management operating profit margins were 35.4% in the Q1. Speaker 200:09:28Margins were slightly down sequentially due to increased maintenance expense as well as depreciation expenses because of higher sustainable railcar conversion activity. Remember, sustainable railcar conversions are a cash accretive action for Trinity as they extend the usable life of assets at attractive return on invested capital. We expect leasing margins to improve as lease rates push upward and these expenses stabilized. In the Rail Products segment, quarterly revenue was slightly down sequentially due to a lower volume of deliveries compared to the Q4. However, segment revenue was up 63% year over year, reflecting significantly higher deliveries in manufacturing. Speaker 200:10:21Our operating margins in the Rail Products segment came in at 4% in the Q1, an improvement sequentially and year over year. However, these margins are still lower than we would like and reflect a challenging labor environment. The accelerated pace of hiring and onboarding has affected productivity given the volume of new employees and the need for training. While these issues, along with continued rail service and supply chain issues, continue to affect us through the Q1, we see improvement across the board. We are optimistic that we are through the worst. Speaker 200:11:02All that to say, we expect to see operating margin improve substantially through the year and expect high single digit margins in this segment. Turning to Slide 7. We remain focused on our strategic initiatives. And this quarter, I want to highlight the work we're doing to improve the Rail Supply Chain. As I mentioned at the top of the call, we completed our acquisition of RSI Logistics, a data centric provider of proprietary software and logistics and terminal management solutions to the North American rail industry. Speaker 200:11:39We are excited about this acquisition and the capabilities it gives us. I want to step back and talk about our rail services journey and how this acquisition fits into the future state of our business. Please turn to Slide 8. Our proprietary TrendSight platform was enhanced with our acquisition of Quasar last year. These businesses give us access and insights into unique data and analytics about railcars, including asset health, shipment condition, location and yard management. Speaker 200:12:15The RSI Logistics acquisitions added a full suite of logistics capabilities to our digital portfolio, including shipment execution software and services to efficiently manage rail logistics, Transloading and Warehousing Solutions. Our goal is to help our customers optimize their supply chain by making shipments more visible and data real time and easily accessible. We are creating an end to end platform to help We are working with industry leaders and channel partners toward broader network integration and optimization through initiatives like railcars. Customer feedback on the RSI acquisition has been very positive. Specifically, their transloading and turnkey rail logistics solutions are seen as leaders in the industry, giving our customers an enhanced offering all in one place. Speaker 200:13:23We look forward to continuing the integration of this business into Trinity as we work toward a better digital solution for rail shippers. Eric will talk about full year expectations in a minute, but I wanted to close by talking about some of the key themes we are seeing that keep us optimistic. We significantly ramped up hiring in the Q4 of 2022 and the Q1 of 2023 and are spending time training those employees. We believe labor has largely stabilized and we expect substantial Efficiency improvement with a more experienced employee base in the second half of the year. The rail services issues that supply chain. Speaker 200:14:18We have learned to operate through it and do not view this as a significant issue in the future. We expect revenue to improve on both sides of our business with higher deliveries and lease rates. We expect margin improvement on both sides of our business with better efficiency and moderated maintenance expenses. While our Q1 results were dampened, the fundamental strength in our industry is evident and we are excited about the year ahead as those trends persist and we see an easing of the headwinds. And finally, since we last spoke in February, I'm proud to report that Trinity has released our 2022 annual report and will soon file our 2023 corporate social responsibility report. Speaker 200:15:09Regarding our CSR report, we made progress as a company, and I wanted to preview a few highlights to the report with you today. First, we've achieved our 3rd party limited assurance of Scope 1 and Scope 2 greenhouse gas metrics. Also for the first time, we are tying executive compensation to environmental metrics like year over year energy reduction and water usage. Diversity, equity and inclusion metrics will continue to be connected to compensation as well. Our CSR report has excellent information and I encourage you to check it out and hold us accountable for continued improvement. Speaker 200:15:51In terms of safety, we have reduced our non fatal occupational injuries and illnesses by 27% over the last 3 years. I'm proud to say that by putting safety first and always focusing on continuous improvement, we are now 40% better than the industry. And now I'll turn the call over to Eric to review our financial results. Speaker 300:16:16Good morning, everyone. Please turn to Slide 9, where we will discuss consolidated financial results. In the Q1, revenue of $642,000,000 improved sequentially and year over year due to higher external railcar deliveries and improved pricing. Our adjusted earnings per share of $0.07 was up year over year, but down sequentially due to lower lease portfolio sales in the Q1. Lease portfolio sales were $57,000,000 in the 1st quarter with a gain of $14,000,000 Our earnings were aided by a 2 17 percent tax benefit. Speaker 300:16:59Several moving pieces affected our tax rate in the quarter I'll discuss those briefly. In our Tripp Leasing subsidiary, we released stranded tax assets previously recorded in AOCI and recorded an income tax benefit of $11,900,000 $7,500,000 of which relates to non controlling interest. This results in a net $4,400,000 positive impact on net income. Our tax rate also benefited by a $4,000,000 change in valuation allowances. These items were partially offset by a remeasurement of net deferred tax liabilities due to the RSI acquisition, resulting in an increase in deferred tax expense of $3,200,000 in the quarter. Speaker 300:17:54Moving to the cash flow statement. Our cash flow from continued operations in the quarter was $103,000,000 and adjusted free cash flow was $36,000,000 after investments and dividends. We did not repurchase any shares in the quarter, we paid $21,000,000 in dividends. In terms of investing activity, our fleet additions totaled $192,000,000 including deliveries, modifications and secondary market additions, offset by lease portfolio sales of $57,000,000 bringing our net fleet investment in the quarter to $135,000,000 Lease portfolio sales were low in the quarter We expect this number to be fairly lumpy through the year, but we are on track for our net fleet investment full year guidance of 250 to $350,000,000 Our investment of $7,000,000 in manufacturing and general capital expenditures is also on pace for our full year guidance. Turning to Slide 10, we currently have liquidity of $451,000,000 which includes cash and equivalents, revolver availability and warehouse availability. Speaker 300:19:09In the Q1, we amended our revolving credit facility to increase the total facility commitment from $450,000,000 to $600,000,000 to enhance our liquidity and flexibility. We are maintaining higher working capital, which will be necessary to Higher levels of deliveries in the current supply chain landscape. Higher interest rates have impacted our debt profile. Our debt remains approximately 80% fixed rate, but the impact of higher short term rates along with higher debt balances has increased our interest expense over the last year. In the Q1, net interest expense of $62,000,000 was up $19,000,000 year over year and we had headwinds to our earnings this year. Speaker 300:19:58And finally, our loan to value for the wholly owned lease portfolio is 65%, in line with our target range. I'll conclude my prepared remarks on Slide 11 with our outlook and guidance. Our outlook remains relatively unchanged from our Q4 call. We view North American industry deliveries in the range of 40,000 to 45,000 railcars, representing replacement level demand. We expect a net lease fleet investment of $250,000,000 to $350,000,000 for the year, in line with our 3 year target. Speaker 300:20:39We expect manufacturing and general capital expenditures of $40,000,000 to $50,000,000 for the year, representing investments in safety, efficiency and automation. We expect to achieve our revised 3 year cash flow from operations target of $1,200,000,000 to $1,400,000,000 And finally, we are affirming our 2023 adjusted EPS from continued operations guidance of $1.50 to $1.70 per share. Given that we reported $0.07 in the first quarter, We believe that this guidance shows that we expect meaningful improvement in our Rail Group margins in the second half of the year and continued lease rate increases in the leasing segment. In conclusion, as we have increased deliveries over the last several quarters, we have not been able to achieve the necessary efficiency levels to get the margins we expect. As more of our employees are onboarded and trained, we expect to see that efficiency improve and financial results reflect that as the year progresses. Speaker 300:21:47As we said last quarter, improvement does not happen overnight, but the work we have done to attract, train and retain our workforce will be visible in our results as the year progresses. And we look forward to sharing our progress with you. And now operator, we are ready for the first question. Operator00:22:10Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Our first question comes from the line of Justin Long from Stephens. Please go ahead. Speaker 400:22:51Thanks and good morning. Good morning. Maybe to Start with a question on Rail Products Group margins. Gene, I think you said that the guidance was for high single digit margins. I wanted to clarify that that was a full year 2023 guide. Speaker 400:23:12And if so, Maybe you can help us think about the quarterly cadence. Eric, a moment ago, I think you made a comment that margins would Improve in the second half. So I just wanted to understand, are you expecting sequential improvement in margins in the second quarter? And then Maybe where we go in the second half in order to get to that high single digit target? Speaker 200:23:38Great question, Justin. Let me talk a little bit about the progression of the year to help you understand what we're seeing. So in the first half of the year, In Rail Products, we have 2 thirds of the year's changeover occurring. 1st quarter, we had about a third of those. So We also talked about being able to hire finally in the Q1. Speaker 200:24:01That was really great. We have the people we need now to get the Throughput we need, but it also presented the training headwinds. If you look at our top 2 or largest plants for manufacturing, 20% of the workforce has less than 6 months. Typically, they're in training for 3 months And then you're ramping on the efficiency for at least the next 3 months. So we expect to see that continue into the second quarter as Some of those people will stay in training or getting up to speed. Speaker 200:24:37In the Q1, good news, we saw some rail service and Supply chain improvements, which is great. We expect that to continue into the second quarter. And again, in the first half, we expect more cars to deliver into our fleet and you'll see more of that in the second quarter. Looking at the second half of the year in Rail Products, we're going to have the remaining 1 third of the changeovers. And it's a few less in the Q3 than this month, but fairly even there on that. Speaker 200:25:13We're also looking at The maintain better rail service, the supply chain continuing to improve and more importantly, that Training complete and the efficiency still ramping up. So I would expect improvement through the year. I would expect the second half to be much greater than the first half. Does that answer the question, Justin? Speaker 400:25:38That's a lot of helpful detail. And given the Q1 was roughly 4%, To get to that high single digit full year target, it suggests the exit rate might be above the high single digits. Is that fair? Speaker 200:25:56So I would say with high single digits overall for the number that we're looking at To access the year with? Yes. Speaker 400:26:07Okay. Okay. Got it. And then maybe as my follow-up for Eric, there was a lot of noise on the tax rate and you walked through some of the puts and takes there. But I guess, one, I'd like to know why you felt That should be included in the adjusted number and then maybe any color you can give us on the tax Great going forward. Speaker 400:26:31And in addition to that, would love some thoughts on gains on sale going forward too. Speaker 300:26:37Yes. So Jess, I think we I did walk through all the pieces of the kind of three elements of it. And While those were not included in our forecast for the year and our guidance, we did include them in our We did not adjust them out. We felt that they were related to our core business and so we didn't adjust them out. In terms of and also note because a lot of that came a lot of the benefit came out through minority interest. Speaker 300:27:12And so the net impact for the quarter was not as great as the headline might indicate because of it coming out in minority interest. In terms of car sales, so we had modest car sales in the Q1. Yes. Reminder, we still have year 3 of our LAFRA program in place, which likely will be in the second half of the year. The market for secondary market still remains relatively good. Speaker 300:27:44We're Active in the market both as buyers and sellers and we see opportunities. We see opportunities both on the buy side and the sell side. And so I would characterize this as pretty healthy. You might think because of higher interest rates that would have cooled off the market. I think what we see is that buyers are pricing in future lease rate increases And therefore, you're assuming that lease rate inflation continues. Speaker 300:28:17And so that has supported Valuations recently that we've seen there supported going forward. Speaker 400:28:28Got it. That's very helpful. I appreciate the time. Speaker 500:28:31Yes. Operator00:28:35Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Bascome Majors from Susquehanna. Please go ahead. Speaker 600:28:43Good morning. You're talking about getting your labor force slowly up to Speed and your desired productivity, but you're facing off against a moderately weakening railcar order environment. So I just wanted to walk through the contingency or the ability to avoid reducing the labor force In an environment where maybe railcar production needs to fall later this year, early next year, and then having to go back and backfill yet again after The challenges of hiring in Northern Mexico over the last 2 or 3 quarters. Speaker 200:29:22So as we look at The workforce right now, Bascome, what we're seeing is we've got the majority of all of our space filled for this year, taking orders Into next year. So the people we have will help us, 1, reduce overtime, as they come in and are more efficient, so that lessens that headwind. And as we get them trained, we're still seeing Fluctuation, we don't believe you're going to see the high peaks and valleys, that we've seen in previous cycles. We think this one's going to be a little flatter, which will help us maintain that workforce and not have to go through the cycle of retraining again. Speaker 600:30:15Okay. So it sounds like at least into early next year, you have very good visibility into a fairly steady production cadence. Speaker 200:30:24That's correct. Speaker 600:30:26And just to clarify Justin's question, The mid single I'm sorry, the high single digit margin comment, that was an exit rate and not a full year number. I just want to clarify there. Speaker 200:30:40The full year is a high single digit number. The exit rate will be stronger than the entry rate. Speaker 600:30:49Yes. Understood. And lastly, the lease rate differential number was Considerably strong. I want to bring some more attention to that. You mentioned tank cars in the prepared remarks. Speaker 600:31:02Can you walk us through in a little more granular detail? How is that Ramping up so quickly, how sustainable is that level of renewal price increases? And are there any quirks about the Q1 That really juiced that number versus where we should think that might settle in the second half of the year or something. Speaker 200:31:22Sure. So when we look at this recovery, it's really supply driven. And we're seeing increases in interest rates, new car costs are higher, And we don't see that coming down anytime soon, the interest rates or even the car prices because it's really stabilized. So those will support the higher rates for longer. Some of the reasons we believe that is the FLRD is the 44.3%. Speaker 200:31:49The fact that the utilization went up to 98.2 percent and the fact that our lease term actually extended in the Q1. In 2022, we averaged about 47 months, and the Q1 of this year, it extended out to 61 months. So what that's telling us that market is still tight, that they still really want those cars that are out there existing. And when we look at new car prices as compared to our lease or our existing cars, there's still a Fraction on the lease pricing. So there's a lot of headroom between the new car price and that new price rate and the existing car rate. Speaker 300:32:35Thank you. Operator00:32:40Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Matt Elkott from TD Cowen. Please go ahead. Speaker 500:32:48Good morning. Thank you. My first question is on demand environment. We saw some of the rails turn into Park locomotives, U and Ps, parking 100 CSX might do something similar. I know that the rails have in past cycles Return some railcars as well when they come off leases. Speaker 500:33:10Are you guys seeing any signs that the railroads might be Contemplating similar steps with railcars as locomotives as their traffic remains stubbornly low. Speaker 200:33:23Okay. Well, Matt, I'm going to start out with the non intermodal volumes are still up year over year And really being driven with automotive, agriculture, energy still there. The headwinds are really in the intermodal and chemical. I think you know that we are not exposed on the intermodal for our lease fleet at all and that is definitely helping us. We've not heard or seen actual request to return. Speaker 200:33:52We're actually still seeing very strong inquiries and the railroads are a big part of Speaker 500:33:59That's helpful, Gene. And then, staying on the demand front, service It's improving. I mean, by many measures, it's still below 2019 levels, but it looks like it's heading in that direction, in the right direction for the rails. And I know that's a tailwind. That's a good thing for you guys long term, but we all know that in the intermediate term, it can be A headwind to equipment demand, you couple that with the fact that traffic in general is down. Speaker 500:34:32I mean, are you surprised that lease rates are holding up as well as they are? Just any kind of Sense you have on what demand might look like going forward? Speaker 200:34:45Okay. Well, We still believe there's pent up demand for the rail traffic loads that want to go on to rail that have not been able to. We're encouraged by the railroads Improving their overall service metrics. We're also encouraged. I don't know if you saw the Trains Magazine article that talked about Incentives going in at NS, CSX and UP, with a shift towards growth. Speaker 200:35:12I think you're hearing that talk a lot more. And We don't think that will come to fruition overnight, but we think that will help in the long term. And when you look at overall the pricing for leasing, we're not surprised. Again, when we look at the cost of a new car and what those rates will be, Still a lot higher, a lot of headroom from the existing lease freight prices. So we expect that delta to continue to come down And those prices to get closer. Speaker 500:35:44Okay. And now one last follow-up on the secondary market front. I mean, I think, Eric, you talked about The market continuing to be strong. Given the liquidity issues in the banking sector and The banks trying to boost their balance sheets. Do you think some of the bank owned fleet, whether large or small, maybe more likely to go for sale in the next couple of quarters. Speaker 300:36:11Matt, I don't know. There's certainly been rumors of Deals in the market, at the end of the day, it comes down to you need a willing buyer and a willing seller. And I think When you look at those assets in the bank owned portfolios, I think generally you're going to see those assets are improving and the yield on those assets Are improving. So the need to the ability to wait it out is probably there because They're going to benefit from the same things we're talking about in terms of higher lease rates. And so I think Yes, it depends on what they decide to do. Speaker 300:36:56But in the meantime, I think they're going to benefit from higher yields on those assets. Speaker 500:37:01But do you guys have like a sweet spot as to how big of a fleet you might go you might be interested in or is there is size and not necessary? Speaker 300:37:12We don't have any stated goals. I think we have scale. Our fleet of roughly 110,000 RevPARs on our balance sheet provides scale. And it comes down to allocating our capital and improving the returns of the business. Yes, I think when we've talked over the last several years about modest fleet growth, I think that's still what we're looking to do. Speaker 300:37:40If there was something that came along that doesn't mean we're not interested, it's going to be at the right return. Speaker 500:37:48Great. Thank you very much. Operator00:37:54Thank Our next question comes from the line of Steve Barger from KeyBanc. Please go ahead. Speaker 700:38:09Hey, good morning. This is Jacob Moore on for Steve this morning. My first question just as a sort of a follow-up to a previous question. We saw 1st quarter industry orders yesterday annualized around 33,000. So I'm just curious as you sit here about a month in, how would you compare 2Q to date To 1Q in terms of order inquiry and activity. Speaker 200:38:30So the inquiry activity still remains with our belief of replacement demand. And a lot of that is driven by certain card types. And I will say that certain customers or some customers are delaying the decision to go ahead and place the order as they look at the macroeconomic uncertainty. But again, overall, the inquiries would support The replacement demand for us. Speaker 700:39:02Okay, got it. Thank you. And then for the second question, Going back to the Holden acquisition, if I read the 10 ks correctly, there wasn't much in the way of physical assets in that acquisition, maybe some backlog. So my question is what assets did you buy and could you or would you be willing to provide us with trailing 12 months revenue and EBITDA? Speaker 300:39:23So, yes, Jacob, you're right. There are not a lot of assets on the business. That was a capital light Business that had some very attractive proprietary products supporting the auto rack market. In terms of breaking out individual performance, at this time, we're not going to break out the individual performance. It was a relatively small acquisition, but we think it's something that will complement Our parts business and continue to grow and as it becomes more meaningful then we'll talk about it more going forward. Speaker 700:40:04Okay, understood. Thanks for taking the questions. Speaker 300:40:06Thanks, Jacob. Operator00:40:12Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Jean Savage for any closing remarks. Speaker 200:40:23Well, thank you, and thank you again everyone for joining us this morning. We believe 2023 is going to be a great year for Trinity with significant improvements through the year in terms of revenue and operating profit in both our operating segments. We do have a talented and motivated workforce, and we look forward to sharing our progress with you through the year. Thank you again for your continued support. Operator00:40:50Thank you. The conference of Trinity Industries has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines.Read moreRemove AdsPowered by