LendingTree Q2 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
July 27, 2023

There are 10 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good day and thank you for standing by and welcome to the LendingTree Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in listen only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer session.

Speaker 1

You will

Operator

then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Andrew Wessler, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Thanks, operator. Good morning to everyone joining us on the call to discuss LendingTree's Q2 2023 financial results. On the call today are Doug Lebda, LendingTree's Chairman and CEO Scott Perri, COO and President of Marketplace Businesses and Trent Ziegler, CFO. As a reminder to everyone, we posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our Investor Relations website earlier today. And for the purposes of today's call, We'll assume that listeners have read that letter and we'll focus on Q and A.

Speaker 1

Before I hand the call over to Doug for his remarks, I remind everyone that during today's call, We may discuss LendingTree's expectations for future performance. Any forward looking statements that we make are subject to risks and uncertainties, and LendingTree's actual results Could differ materially from the views expressed today. Many, but not all of the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC. We will also discuss a variety of non GAAP measures on the call today, and I refer you to today's press release and shareholder letter, both available on our website for the comparable GAAP definitions and full reconciliations of non GAAP measures to GAAP. And with that, Doug, please go ahead.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Andrew, and thank you everyone for joining us today. We earned $27,000,000 of adjusted EBITDA in the 2nd quarter, generating a 15% margin, which was well ahead of our forecast. Our outperformance was due to strong segment margin performance in Consumer and Insurance, combined with our laser focus on managing operating expenses. Although the revenue environment remains challenging across all three of our segments, Our team's work on improving operating efficiency allowed us to meet our VMD forecast. As the second quarter progressed, Credit markets broadly tightened across the banking and lending industries, causing demand for many of our lending partners to decline.

Speaker 2

In home, several mortgage originators were forced to reduce their bids as cost per funded loan had reached levels that were no longer sustainable. Personal and small business lenders broadly tightened their criteria lending further, causing approval rates for our customers to decline. The insurance carriers we work with, we're continuing to decrease their marketing budgets as inflationary impacts and will require further increases to auto and home premium rates. This revenue degradation continued into July and is baked into our updated financial outlook we're providing this morning. That's the bad news.

Speaker 2

The good news is that these macroeconomic Headwinds should prove temporary. We're encouraged that the Fed is signaling it's nearing the end of its campaign to tighten financial conditions With higher interest rates, the pace of inflation continues to slow. We also recognize that healthy labor market with Historically, low unemployment is a key component for lenders to expand their relationships with our customers, one capital markets volatility and short term economic uncertainty subside. We have faced we have made changes to adapt to the challenges we're facing. We focused our management team to capture incremental revenue while improving our expense profile.

Speaker 2

We have improved our product function and have identified key areas for potential additional savings as a result. For example, Scott Topman, our CTO has taken over personally our data initiative. We've also brought back brought our people back to the office, Which has helped us speed decision making and reinforce the entrepreneurial culture that has made us such a successful company historically. In the Q3, the management team is focused on maintaining cost discipline and identifying areas of incremental revenue growth despite the various headwinds that we've been facing. We're going to release our reimagine and rebranded My LendingTree platform and continue working on improving the customer experience to drive more engagement with our customers, higher conversion rates and thus higher unit economics.

Speaker 2

Before turning the call over to Scott for his comments, I would like to thank J. D. Moriarty for the impact he has had in his time at LendingTree. We helped lead our diversification strategy, completing 7 acquisitions in 3 years, which have helped us remain solidly profitable despite The very difficult operating environment that we're facing. I could not be more excited for Scott to assume his additional responsibilities of leading our lending marketplace businesses.

Speaker 2

Our sales and marketing teams will also report directly to him. His performance, the Founder and President of QuoteWizard has been exemplary through multiple cycles, including the current one. He's proven to be an exceptional operator, inspirational leader and truly embodies the entrepreneurial spirit of LendingTree. We are looking forward to the positive impact he's going to have on our own business moving forward. Scott?

Speaker 3

Thanks, Doug. Appreciate it. First off, I'd like to say, I'm really excited to take on these expanded responsibilities and looking forward to providing a larger impact to the overall organization. I've spent the last 2 weeks taking a real deep dive into all the components of the marketplace businesses, and I'm excited to say that both the quality of the people and the number of near opportunities that I believe exist in the core business. I will be fully focused on improving the operational efficiency in growing the core business of LendingTree, businesses of LendingTree.

Speaker 3

First off, I really want to build a more cohesive symmetry between the marketing and sales teams as it's Critically important for the people developing the product to be working very closely with the people selling the product. Similar to insurance, instead of focusing on clawing every dime of revenue Customers that are already on a budget constraint will be focusing on providing the highest quality, highest intent consumers and then focusing on monetizing efforts around those consumers. QuoteWizard, as we've seen, even due to macro headwinds in the industry, we're currently driving the highest quality traffic at the Highest VMM margins in our company history. I fully believe we can do that across the board in all of our business units. In insurance, we're actually doing more VMD year over year over significantly lower revenue as you can see in the numbers.

Speaker 3

I'm a big believer in having a maniacal focus on a small number of things that are the most impactful to the business. It's already becoming clear to me what some of those things and those items are and we are actively focusing our resources towards accomplishing those items to quickly get some wins on the Board. Finally, we will have a relentless focus on operational efficiency. Velocity of decision making, turning big projects into small projects, challenging long held assumptions, focusing on understanding the sizes of opportunities before committing resources, etcetera, etcetera. We will have an aggressive offensive stance going forward, which will have a

Speaker 4

big impact on our productivity. Thank you.

Speaker 2

And now operator, I'd be happy to open the call for questions.

Operator

Great. Thank you. Thank you. We will now accept the question and answer session. Please stand by while we compile the Q and A roster.

Operator

Please standby. Our first question comes from Ryan from KBW. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking the questions. Clearly, the hope is that the revenue environment inevitably improves. But given the importance of navigating the upcoming maturities, maybe you could provide a bit more detail on the different options You're thinking about for addressing the convert that goes current next year. Do you feel like the current free cash flow and EBITDA profile The business can support that.

Speaker 5

And I guess on the expense side, are there additional levers you Could pool, if needed, in this scenario that the revenue environment doesn't go your way?

Speaker 2

I'll open up broadly and then let Trent, give you the details. Obviously, this is something that we are very, very focused on. That we are exploring. I don't know how much of those details we want to Talk about that to the extent of other levers, the answer is yes. We do have discretionary product Investments that I've talked about that if they if things do not bear fruit, you can certainly make changes there.

Speaker 2

So yes, there are other cost levers you can do. Right now, we want to maintain balance between We have a few focused, a small investment into initiatives around data customer Because we think they're core to the business, but at the same time, we're incredibly judicious with that. But suffice it to say, We are very, very, very focused on that maturity and would hope to be refinancing it in In some way. Go ahead, Trent.

Speaker 4

Yes. I mean, I think Doug covered it well. We're obviously laser focused on it. We're exploring a bunch of alternative options available to us. I think the good news is we take some sauce and then in the fact that there We have 4 quarters left before that maturity comes current.

Speaker 4

We've got, 8 quarters left before it actually matures. And so we're weighing all of our options relative to the performance of the business. Obviously, the options available to us get a little bit better should performance improve. And I think we have some reason to believe that as we get a little bit more certainty around the macro, there's good reason to believe that the insurance Backdrop could turn a little bit as we head into next year. Some stability in some of our consumer businesses should provide some upside.

Speaker 4

And so we're weighing all of those alternatives relative to the performance in the business.

Speaker 2

Yes. And the only thing I'd add is in an environment like this where Your unit economics on the revenue side, whether it's the cover the price lenders want to pay, the The amount of volume or the coverage of how wide they're willing to go, as all of that has gone Negative and we have gotten sharper and sharper and sharper on the marketing side, particularly in insurance and Scott just talked about bringing that to the lending side. The business Yes. And the margin profile increases, when you get any sort of tailwind on the other whether it's a conversion rate increase through product improvement, whether it's lenders expanding demand in some way That margin tends to stick. So obviously, sometime in the next many quarters, we're going to have to be improving our financial So that people are going to want to lend money to us, but we are laser, laser focused on that while Trent's also working on its financial Options as well.

Speaker 5

Thanks. Appreciate all that color. I guess on the guidance, The revised guide looks like it implies second half EBITDA of around $30,000,000 to $40,000,000 by our math round numbers, $60,000,000 to $80,000,000 annualized and it looks like the implied 4Q EBITDA guide is at the low end of that range on an annualized basis. I guess, should we think about that as kind of the run rate EBITDA power as things stand here for the business today? And Are there key variables that could move the needle in the second half relative to the guidance that you'd call out specifically?

Speaker 4

I guess what's worth calling out relative to that would be obviously we're The revenue challenges are real and we're seeing those and that's probably not a surprise to anybody given the headlines around It's the worst mortgage environment in 20 years. We've talked about home equity as a relative source of strength within that. That's Starting to be a little bit more challenging as rates continue to go higher, that's becoming less attractive for consumers. And so there's a lot of reasons why we've had to pull down our revenue outlook for the rest of the year. What I would say is we are Forecasting similar seasonal declines in Q4.

Speaker 4

Q4 is always a seasonally much slower period for us. And I think there is a little bit of uncertainty To how much of that seasonal effect show up in a year where sort of the baseline has already beaten up a little bit, Right. And so we're certainly taking a conservative stance with regard to forecasting those trends through the rest of the year and then the Q4 in particular.

Speaker 2

Yes. The way I just to add on a little bit, I think of Q2 as a Solid quarter, not where it historically has been to call it fairly normal. Q3, as we talked about, you're seeing some pullbacks from lenders that we do not believe Are institutionalized in the market. It's not like our product doesn't work. It's not like the buyers aren't there.

Speaker 2

It's literally just that they Just like we won't bid on Google search terms, path to point of profitability, lenders do the same thing with us. So we don't see that Clearly, it's permanent. The other thing that, we take some comfort in is when we talk to lenders about what they're doing with us Vis a vis competitors, we feel like we're generally speaking one of the last places that they turn off or that they pull back on. And then Q4, as Trent said, is seasonal. It is a seasonal downturn.

Speaker 2

Typically in our industry, people, Consumers in general are not thinking about financial services in Q4, and then they really think about it in Q1. So, no, I wouldn't take this as the ongoing run rate.

Speaker 4

Yes. Short answer to that question is, I think Q3 is probably a better baseline to Sorry, use as your run rate headwinds. Q3 is a better baseline than Q4 as you look at kind of how you model it into next year.

Speaker 5

Great. Thanks for taking the questions.

Operator

Okay. Let me queue up the next question. Our next question comes from Jed Kelly from Oppenheimer and Company.

Speaker 6

Hey, great, great. Thanks for taking my question. Just circling back on the insurance segment, should we expect this margin profile you're seeing to Can you as demand from the carriers is depressed? And then just looking at the insurance marketing segment in general, Scott, There's quite a few of the marketplaces that participate in this business. Are all of them going to be able to survive as this Continues to get pushed out or do you see some type of consolidation happening in the industry?

Speaker 6

Just can you touch on how you think these These headwinds are going to affect some of your competitors. Thank you.

Speaker 3

Yes. Thanks, Jed. I'll start with the margin. Yes, in the compressed We would expect our margins to remain high because just like I mentioned earlier, we're just focusing on the highest quality, highest intent Consumers for our clients with the limited budgets they have and honestly, their ad Our competitors advertising is very suppressed. Our direct clients, like they're not spending any money directly with a lot of places they historically do.

Speaker 3

So the traffic being that we're focusing we're not spreading our spend out and our monetization out like thin like butter like We're focusing on the right areas, so we would expect our margins to stay very good. Now when the budget started coming back in 2024, Dan, margins might be start getting compressed a little bit as the marketplaces get more competitive. But that said, we'll be very conscientious about Total VMD dollars going up significantly, which we think we're really well positioned for that at when the budgets start coming back, which I do And then that kind of leads into your final question of the competitors. And yes, Long story short is there will be a number of players that don't survive this. There's a number of I would almost say you start with the smaller marketing affiliates that maybe aren't as well known out there, but do go out and kind of clog up the Marketplaces a little bit, those guys have been hit really hard and some of them

Speaker 4

have exited

Speaker 3

the marketplaces, like the SEM marketplaces, for example, and I don't know I will come back into those marketplaces. Some of them will just disappear, some of them might get consolidated And to some of the bigger players, I don't know if any of the big players ourselves included are out looking to Actively look to buy any of these guys without getting an absolute screening deal out of it. But I do think when we get into next year, similar to the 20 Team downturn, there's going to be a lot fewer players in the marketplace, which does create a Goldilocks scenario for Performance Marketing Company.

Speaker 6

And then just as a follow-up, Scott, what is the team looking at? Is it interest rate stabilizing, supply chain stabilizing that gives you confidence that the carriers are going to get their Underwriting profitability under control.

Speaker 3

Insurance is not interest rate as much as it is inflation. That's the insurance company's problem. And so they need inflation because right now for the past what 18 months, they have not been able to keep their Rate increases at the pace of how inflation has been going and inflation and as well publicized in the auto insurance industry for car repairs and whatnot has been even Higher than the overall CPI, and it still is quite a bit higher. But that all said, it is starting Cool down and there is positive signs, used car prices, cost of car repairs, it's starting to normalize and come down. So that equation where they can't catch up to inflation is now starting to change.

Speaker 3

Where the rate increases, Inflation is starting to stabilize in the car insurance industry and the rate increases keep happening. So sooner or later, those lines will cross and they will get back to a profitable combined ratio scenario. And so then the big hope with a lot of these carriers is that they're feeling in a Really good spot by the end of 2023 when the budget cycle switched to 2024 that they're feeling that all the policies are bringing on are Profitable policies are bringing on and they reset their budgets going into 2024 and based on their confidence level, they can get aggressive really quick. But the big driving factor is inflation stabilizing. Yes.

Speaker 3

And

Speaker 2

We were talking about this yesterday at our Board meeting and Scott hit the point of the combined ratio, but also that it varies state by state in the number of your large states We're for example, California, that state by state things too where insurance carriers, If they're not going to make money, they're not going to go market to originate that policy for sure and that's the same thing you see with the lenders. And So with the when rates stabilize and inflation stabilize, in some places are both inter Fine. We feel like we're going to be a much sharper company and be ready to roll.

Operator

Thank you. Please stand by. Our next company our next question comes from Youssef Gualy from Truist Securities, please go ahead.

Speaker 1

All right. Good morning, guys. Thank you for taking the questions. So maybe a quick one for Doug and one for Trent. So Doug, obviously anybody looking at Tree right now, they're looking past the second half of the year, they're looking into 2024 and beyond.

Speaker 1

Knowing what you know today, what kind of segments or what segments, sorry, do you see Kind of coming back first. And what are the kind of indicators or gating factors that you're kind of watching for that turnaround. And then, Trent, good job on the operating efficiencies That you've shown against a pretty tough top line, but how much of that operating cost efficiency do you think you can maintain maybe into next year as revenues come back.

Speaker 2

I'll Take the first one. I would say, in this order, I think you'll see insurance come back first. I think you'll see Probably consumer come back second, and I think you'll see home come back 3rd. And by the way, like the I think as you think about it, those are also in order of probably The most the biggest opportunities as well for revenue and profit contribution. The Insurance business, Scott's covered.

Speaker 2

That's a fact of simply insurance companies being able to underwrite Get their rates higher, so they can underwrite appropriately and profitably. Consumer, Keep in mind that many of the personal loan lenders are pretty much most of them are Either marketplace lenders or correspondent lenders that are selling funds directly into the capital markets. So the capital markets are tighter, which I know what the Fed is doing, that's going to hurt there. But that air hose snaps that Capital markets have stepped on that arrows from time to time with us, but it always bounces back. And then the home business, Right now, you've got refinancing obviously doesn't make sense for anybody.

Speaker 2

And in the purchase market, home buying and selling is not what it would be given High rates and buyers and sellers really kind of staring at each other in that market. And then I would say underlying all of that is us trying to improve our consumer experience, which improves conversion rates, which Yes, it makes the whole business profitable, I think insurance, consumer and home. And then the other thing that we really monitor, as I said before, is like if we're gaining share or maintaining share That's important too. I won't say it's perfect in every one of those, but I do know that I feel really good from the standpoint of our partnerships, the Efficacy of the model and lenders just want to do business with us and they're telling us this is it's an economic thing right now and they'll be back.

Speaker 4

Yes. And then Youssef on the operating efficiency point, I mean, I think what we've seen is We've taken a lot of steps in the last 12 6 to 12 months to simplify the business in many respects. As Doug noted earlier, like candidly, we still have some discretionary investment going on, right, We could choose to dial back if the situation warranted. But no, I mean, I think we've seen as a result of leaning out and getting more focused and Chad, we're already operating better and faster, and on more on fewer focused things, right? And As the revenue opportunity comes back looking into next year, there's not a need to continue to staff up considerably against that revenue backdrop.

Speaker 4

I don't see our OpEx growing materially at all as we look into next year.

Speaker 2

So I'll tell you just a walk out on one change that we made internally, which is Yes, most companies might set goals and OKRs at the beginning of the year, probably due in November and then by January, February and highlight changing environment are pretty much irrelevant. We've moved to a quarterly cycle and So the fewer points comment, everybody in the company is responsible for 3 to 5 things that you're going to make sure that you deliver on In the next 3 months, I mentioned in the last quarter, we did that with our How We Do product. By the way, we've So brought on a lot of new management and made a lot of changes to make us sharper as well too. But that Quarterly cycle enables us to pivot, enables us to look at each one of our initiatives, say, okay, like This one's working, that one's not. This one's behind.

Speaker 2

All right, let's ship personnel over here. The market's changed. Let's double down over there. So it's enabled us to be much more nimble. And we're doing a lot more with individualized focused Teams that are cross functional that can make all their decisions.

Speaker 2

So Scott was alluding to, too, just getting faster, a lot of that all goes into it. We're really, really Trying to improve the way we do operations and at this company.

Speaker 1

Great. Thank you and

Operator

Good luck. Thank you. Please standby. Our next question comes from John Campbell from Stephens Incorporated. Please go ahead.

Speaker 2

Hey, guys. Good morning. Good morning, John.

Speaker 7

Hey, and Trent, I think in the past, you've talked the belief that you can return the business back teens are kind of possibly 20% type EBITDA margins. You guys are obviously there in the past. You're going to need a degree of a rebound in the top line, I'm sure, that better leverage, but you've taken a lot of steep cost cuts. It sounds like there's going to be a little bit more in that in the back half. And Trent, I think you said that Maybe very modest, if any, OpEx growth next year, but maybe if you guys can talk about how you're feeling about that margin target now and maybe what type of Top line you think you might need to

Speaker 1

get back to those past margin levels?

Speaker 4

Yes. No, thanks, John. I mean, look, we hit 15% EBITDA margins in the 2nd quarter, that's a level that we hadn't been at in quite some time and that's against the pretty bleak revenue backdrop. Obviously, The revenue trend continues to work against us in the back half of this year, but I think we have reconfigured the cost structure of the business in such a way that Any rebound in the top line should result in us getting back to mid to high teens EBITDA margins in the not too distant future. I don't think it would take much.

Speaker 3

Yes. I'll just add in there. I mean, just for specific examples, going to insurance is some of our Largest clients, which we when they come back and they start spending significant budget again with us, We don't have to hire a bunch of people or anything. We don't have we have the same account managers. We have the same marketers.

Speaker 3

We're just generating more revenue And VMD over the same cost basis. So as Shannon alluded to in an earlier question, I believe across all the industries we're in, we can Significant revenue and BMD Growth without the need for OpEx growth for quite some time.

Speaker 7

Yes, makes a lot of sense. And then on Homes, I saw in the shareholder letter, you guys called out the 11% decline in HELOC and just kind of triangulating that or at least on my math, I'm showing that mortgage would be Down maybe 15%, 20% or so sequentially. The industry, it looks like was actually up 40%. That's just for seasonality. I'm guessing you guys maybe just kind of deemphasize that from the VMM standpoint.

Speaker 7

So any kind of color you can provide there? And then also, don't want to put your feet to the fire, but I mean, is it potentially do you feel like this could be the trough for homes or maybe just mortgage with the 2Q results?

Speaker 2

So, God, picking the trough. Listen, We hope so. And at the same time, mortgage lenders are taking capacity. From an industry standpoint, like it and in channel checks, etcetera, it feels like Purchase is poised to do better and rates are going to and the mortgage rates Seem to not be rising. The flip side of that would be some lenders are taking and I think you'll hear from it from public, Some lenders are doing layoffs and pulling back on capacity.

Speaker 2

So from the standpoint of The price they're willing to pay, the quantity they want and the coverage and the demand equation, their capacity, we're I want to make sure we're not going to see reductions in capacity, which would reduce the demand equation. Now that said, Flip side of that is one of the things that we are going to do aggressively, particularly with Scott coming in here is Really get out and see our clients, plan with them and Be much more closer to them over this period of time personally for both Scott and me and the rest of the team. So I expect some just operational wins there. Scott, anything to add?

Speaker 3

Yes. I would add in I mean, you look at the refi market, I mean, I would say that's probably that has fallen off dramatically. And I would say you're probably at We might be at the trough a little bit, but what I would add there is you think about it every month, there is a lot of consumers Out there purchasing homes at very high interest rates. So I mean that's happening every month right now this year. And so it doesn't If you look into early next year and you could theoretically see maybe some mortgage rates start to drop a little bit.

Speaker 3

And so you have you will have this ingrained user base of consumers that bought homes this year, that will be actively looking to refi with any So that could be a start of a little bit of a benefit next year from a No compare and say a company like ours.

Speaker 7

Makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Alex. The only other comment I'd make Inside of our product development initiatives and Owen is doing a fantastic job at Taking over product, we're focused on purchase conversion rates. Now as many of you know, that's been an 8 volt Challenge at LendingTree had to crack that code, but we are working on it and hope to see some progress.

Operator

Great. Please standby. Our next question comes from Melissa from JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Speaker 8

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions today. First, I wanted to follow-up on the revised guidance and just kind of comparing EBITDA margins from the most recent quarter, which, Trent, you noted we're in the mid teens. Just sort of implied in the back half, you're guiding some margins in the low double digits, so a couple of 100 bps lower than 2Q levels. I'm just trying to wrap my head around that.

Speaker 8

Is it just sort of embedded conservatism and guidance driving that or something else that you're seeing?

Speaker 4

No, it's just the magnitude of the kind of compressed revenue in the back half of the year. We assume that we have done most of the work on the cost structure in the first half of this year, kind of the quarterly OpEx levels, we expect to remain relatively consistent through the back half of the year to where they were in Q2. But obviously, as your revenue trails off, that's

Speaker 2

going to impact your EBITDA margin.

Speaker 4

I mean, in the core gross margins or BMMs, we actually do expect to see a little bit of improvement there In a couple of segments, it's just not quite enough to offset the magnitude of the decline in the revenue guide.

Speaker 2

By the way, one thing I'd add on the margin front. We did a little math calculation here for a prior question of how much would you need to get to 20 On EBITDA margin, on Q2, it's roughly you need $10,000,000 more of EMD. And if we can do that at a 50% DMM margin, dollars 20,000,000 in revenue in the quarter. That's not a that is Not a long pot. And it's I can't tell you when we're going to do it, but I can tell you we're going to get there because I can tell you we've been there before.

Speaker 2

And typically, when The company has come back from the 2 other significant financial dislocations and come back bigger and stronger with more share.

Speaker 8

Okay. Got it. Thank you. Follow-up question on a couple of the categories within Consumer. If we're looking at things right, it looks like there is a little bit of a sequential increase in card in terms of revenue in card and personal loan.

Speaker 8

And just wanted to understand How you attribute that? Is it mostly do you think is there some seasonality in that number? Are you starting to see sort of Truecall Payoff, what are you what's driving that?

Speaker 4

Yes. On card in particular, we talked Last quarter about how we migrated to

Speaker 7

a sort

Speaker 4

of a new and improved foundational platform on which we operate that business. That has enabled us to better leverage the LendingTree proper domain, right? You recall, we acquired the CompareCards 2nd, 2016, 2017 and that has been the primary sort of activity like most of the In the card business for us has run through that domain. There's a lot of value in us migrating some of that activity and some of Over to the LendingTree domain to capture emails and repeat business and things like that. And so we're seeing that bear fruit.

Speaker 4

And so you saw a slight uptick in Not only revenue, but a relatively pronounced uptick in the margin profile of that business in Q2, and we expect that to continue to Progress forward through the back half of the year, that's probably one of the bright spots within consumer. And that continues to be an end market that is Yes, we're more healthy relative to some of the other businesses.

Speaker 3

Yes. If I just add on there, yes, that Lightspeed is the name of the platform it migrated to, but it was that did have significant impact on funnel throughput, funnel performance, Conversion rates of our consumers, which helps have an immediate bump in marketing efficiency. But what I To add on to that, I believe the next few quarters is going to continue because we needed that new platform conversion to happen and now we're doing a lot of Continued testing and increased funnel optimization, throughput and optimizing results sets For consumers and better matches, and so I think there's a lot of opportunity in the credit card business for us in the coming quarters. Yes. A big part of that was that platform migration that needed to happen.

Speaker 2

Yes. I would only add, Lightspeed is a great example of us having a team getting product right, getting that up and running. That helps our existing Credit card click out business and you've mentioned Treequal, I would say. We've been Talking about Trequal and be bringing Trequal for a long time, which I would say is something that we're all very mindful of. The flip side of that is, we've made some pivots in the product and how we're working with lenders.

Speaker 2

And so we hate to say we expect that to bear fruit shortly or soon in the future, but We're getting more lender receptivity to it. And then the biggest challenge you find is that we need the lenders work with us So a little bit of a catch-twenty 2 that you got to go to major card issuers, get them to work on a tech project with you When you're also a small business for them, but we're slogging and having some success. Now when that hits, we expect it to have a big impact that, that will be a one time event whenever we get it done.

Speaker 8

Got it. Thank you, everyone.

Operator

Thank you. Please stand by. Our next question comes from Chris Kennedy from William Blair.

Speaker 9

Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. Just wanted to follow-up on the efforts to improve the conversion rates. Doug, you just mentioned a few of them, but can you just dive a little bit more into the initiatives and how they're going relative to your expectations?

Speaker 2

So I'm mindful of competitive things here, so let me hit it overall. Obviously, we talked about 3 quality image. So if you look at a conversion funnel in a performance marketing company, You have to see where the biggest leak is and then you go try to plug the leak. And credit cards, it's Approval rate, and that's because we don't gather a lot of your information and we click out click you out And there's a pretty low approval rate on those. You also have in that business, which all the competitors have, the fact that people are Seeking for credit, seeking credit.

Speaker 2

So you have to get more preapproved data so that you're making offers to consumers that they're Yes. And I just talked about that one. The other series of teams Are working on close rates from lead to fund in the Mostly in the mortgage space, well, in the mortgage space. And there, what you're doing is, and for those of you who might be new, You think about the act of getting a home loan or getting a small business loan, That doesn't happen in one sitting. And we need to enhance our CRM capabilities and be more interactive with the lenders So that you're not just getting a one time offer from LendingTree and then getting barrage with phone calls.

Speaker 2

We are working right. The change that we've made in how we're working with lenders is we actually now Leveraged our lender advisory council to have a smaller group of lenders that works with us on a test basis in a managed marketplace, so it's very, very collaborative and co creating with them. So I expect that to bear fruit. Now the good news about these is, while we're evaluating every quarter and we're pivoting And the last one I would say is My LendingTree, which is important. And there it's about improving engagement and our offers So that we can give you much more personalized alerts.

Speaker 2

And that work is underway. Underlying a lot of this is a technical change that we have in what we call our offers platform. So today, If you're making changes to the pages where you're seeing your offers and interacting with lenders, it's very rigid. We're moving that very shortly to a system that we've been working on for almost about a year, I'd say, That's going to make that much more flexible. The last thing I'd say about all of this, we don't need them to pay off tomorrow.

Speaker 2

Any one of these that hits would have a change when it works. And if they don't work, as Trent said, we got some we got discretionary money that we're spending. And as things like light Speed get done, then we can ship those resources to work on something else.

Speaker 9

Yes, very helpful. And then just a follow-up to that. What type of timeframe are you kind of envisioning in order to make that ultimate decision whether they're working or not? Thanks for taking the questions. Yes.

Speaker 2

So in our new in the way we're doing product now, as I said, we've got dedicated Cross functional teams on anything that we deem a tech product initiative. And they have quarterly OKRs against Each one of them. And I'll tell you one of the other things that I and they not everybody hits them every quarter, You go through a review a product review process, and we are making adjustments every quarter. Sometimes it's keep going, you're hitting your marks. Sometimes it's we need you to raise the bar.

Speaker 2

Sometimes it's we need you to We're going to shut this thing down. And that's just the way you do it with it. We need LendingTree to be a great product and tech organization. And with our leadership now of Scott, Topman and Owen, I feel like we've really got it.

Speaker 3

Yes. I'll just throw on one specific. The personal loans, offers platform, which is we've seen the success on credit cards and we're now all hands on deck.

Speaker 2

We know there's a lot of opportunity

Speaker 3

in personal loans on getting that offers platform converted over, what should happen sooner rather than later. And Honestly, as we look at it, since those are all essentially preapproved offers that we're putting to the consumers for having Better algorithms for better matches and making sure like the top listings have a highest potential for a consumer getting a funded loan. There's a lot of good work we can do there that will An immediate and iterative constantly continually improving impact on more revenue per consumer and at the same time Giving them better matches so they're getting funded loans in an easier method. So I mean, we're pretty excited that some of this stuff can have impact sooner rather than later.

Speaker 4

Great. Thank you.

Operator

Great. Please stand by. Our next question comes from Rob Wildhack. Please go ahead.

Speaker 3

Hi, guys. On Home, do

Speaker 7

you have a number in mind for how far mortgage rates would have to come down, maybe it's to 5 4.5% before there's healthy refinance opportunity again?

Speaker 2

No, I don't.

Speaker 4

And I tell you to go look

Speaker 2

at the NBA forecast, but in almost 30 years of doing this, like Yes. They're directionally right and sometimes hard to be precise. So the good news about what I will say though about refinance There's actually, I would say, almost always, except at times like this, you do have a decent level of Refinance activity, you have people who have adjustable rate mortgages coming due, you have people whose credit scores improve, You have people whose values go up and they want cash out to go do something or pay off other debts. So, all we're right now, it's just that the borrower benefit to a refinance Isn't there, but like if you go get a mortgage at 7% or you get it at 9% because your credit is not great, When that gets to 6.5, there's savings in it for you. And So I think you just need to start seeing a tick down, but even really a stabilization, I think Would see more refinance business, but what I will tell you is, man, oh man, we are like storing mortgages As rates do come down, you've got a lot of refinance business stacked up And the industry in general has gotten more efficient.

Speaker 2

So I'd expect throughput to be better because technology improvements are happening In the background as everybody is trying to be as efficient as they can and those efficiencies are going to stick when the market gets starts to grow.

Speaker 3

Thanks Doug and Mitt.

Speaker 2

Yes. Some of the top like mortgage economists right now and so forth are looking for a pretty healthy

Speaker 7

Got it. Thanks, Doug. And then maybe one more for Scott. You mentioned earlier Insurance carriers getting profitable towards year end, resetting budgets into 2024. Can we interpret that as The base case kind of outlook here, it takes carriers another 3 to 6 months before they can start thinking about growth again?

Speaker 3

Yes. I would say that's a base case scenario. I think if I'm being completely honest, a lot of the carriers have pretty much written off 23 and they're in survival mode in 23. I mean, I feel like there has been stabilization. I want to be very cautious about You know, I'm saying it's completely stable at this point, but I mean, where I sit today, I feel like kind of June was a low point.

Speaker 3

We've even had July, we're learning Better than June, which is positive. And there are a number of carriers and big consumer name brands that are that have increased budgets With us in July, not dramatically, but that's just a good sign that they're not continuing to cut. They feel like there's a stabilization. But I think When you're talking about significant major increases in marketing budget, it's probably going to happen at the turn of the year when their annual budget cycles shift to a new calendar year.

Speaker 9

Makes sense. Thanks.

Operator

Great. Please stand by. And our final question comes from Mike Grondahl from Northland, please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Hey, thanks guys. Doug, you mentioned some lenders pulled back In 3Q or that's what you're seeing, which verticals did they pull back the most? Which ones did they pull back the least?

Speaker 2

So first off, we weren't talking 3Q, we were talking about the end of Q2 And Trent, you want to take most and least, I would say, in mortgage, You had a select number of lenders who pulled back by reducing The price they're willing to pay. So remember lenders set bids and lending for as we set them in Google. And that obviously impacts the revenue profile. And in personal loans, The quote unquote pullback isn't like I don't want less volume, it's I need a tighter credit box To be able to sell those loans. In terms of relative size, Trent, any?

Speaker 4

Yes. Order of magnitude, I'd say, Some of the price concessions or bid reductions that we've seen in home are probably the most pronounced. We've seen a handful of smaller ones in personal loans, 1, 2, 2, 3 is in small business.

Speaker 6

Got it. And then, Trent, Have you disclosed or kind of put brackets around what the discretionary spend bucket is in 2023?

Speaker 2

No, not yet. I mean, it's

Speaker 4

In the zip code of 5% to 10% of the cost structure.

Speaker 6

Got it. Okay. Thanks, guys.

Speaker 4

Thanks, Mike.

Operator

Go ahead. I'm showing no further questions at this time. I'd now like to turn the conference back to Doug Lebauch, CEO. Please go ahead.

Speaker 2

Thank you all very much for again for being here today. Thank you very much I just want to reassure shareholders that while I know this has been a long dark winter during the COVID season, I want you to know that we get the situation and we are on it and we are making changes at all levels as hopefully you can see to address it. Our company is now smaller, we're leaner, we're faster And we're more in person that's making us operate more effectively. We are incredibly mindful of our balance sheet, Not only as a management team, but I can also tell you it's all of us being shareholders and me being a significant Gerald, we are in that boat with you and we are going to manage that and And improve our financial profile and make sure that that can be handled. We believe our market position is very solid.

Speaker 2

As one of the leaders in this space, It is much harder on smaller marketplaces than it is on us. And so we continue to improve our market Position hopefully consolidate share, be sharper and higher margin with a better margin profile, so we're We can capture any incremental revenue improvement with much more of it falling to the bottom line. We're going to focus this quarter on just Continuing to provide great value for our clients as Scott hit on across all of our segments, that is the key On one side of the marketplace and on the other, we talked about the initiatives underway to improve the relationship with our customers. Those are hard problems to solve, but we are making progress. Thank you very much for your belief in our company, and we look forward to talking to you next quarter.

Operator

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

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Earnings Conference Call
LendingTree Q2 2023
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