NYSE:GEL Genesis Energy Q2 2023 Earnings Report $14.09 -0.26 (-1.81%) Closing price 04/25/2025 03:59 PM EasternExtended Trading$14.21 +0.12 (+0.85%) As of 08:40 AM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. Earnings HistoryForecast Genesis Energy EPS ResultsActual EPS$0.22Consensus EPS $0.27Beat/MissMissed by -$0.05One Year Ago EPS$0.14Genesis Energy Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$804.70 millionExpected RevenueN/ABeat/MissN/AYoY Revenue Growth+11.50%Genesis Energy Announcement DetailsQuarterQ2 2023Date8/3/2023TimeBefore Market OpensConference Call DateThursday, August 3, 2023Conference Call Time9:00AM ETUpcoming EarningsGenesis Energy's Q1 2025 earnings is scheduled for Thursday, May 8, 2025, with a conference call scheduled on Thursday, May 1, 2025 at 10:00 AM ET. Check back for transcripts, audio, and key financial metrics as they become available.Conference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptSlide DeckPress Release (8-K)Quarterly Report (10-Q)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfileSlide DeckFull Screen Slide DeckPowered by Genesis Energy Q2 2023 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrAugust 3, 2023 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 6 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Genesis Energy Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. After the prepared remarks, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Instructions will be given at that time. And Without further ado, I will now turn the program over to Duane Morley. Speaker 100:00:20Thanks, Chris. Good morning. Welcome to the 2023 Second Quarter Conference Call for Genesis Energy. Genesis has 4 business segments. The Offshore Pipeline Transportation segment is engaged in providing the critical infrastructure to move oil produced from the long lived world class reservoirs in the Deepwater Gulf Onshore Refining Centers. Speaker 100:00:41The soda and sulfur services segment includes trona, trona based exploring, mining, processing, producing, marketing and selling activities as well as the processing of sour gas streams to remove sulfur at refining operations. The Onshore Facilities and Transportation segment is engaged in the transportation, handling, blending, storage and supply of energy products, including crude oil and refined products. The Marine Transportation segment is engaged in the maritime transportation of primarily refined petroleum products. Genesis' operations are primarily located in Wyoming, Gulf Coast States and the Gulf of Mexico. During this conference call, management may be making forward looking statements The meaning of the Securities Act of 1933 and the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, the law provides safe harbor provisions Protection to encourage companies to provide forward looking information. Speaker 100:01:35Genesis intends to avail itself of those Safe Harbor provisions and directs you to its most recently filed and future filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We also encourage you to visit our website at the most comparable GAAP financial measures. At this time, I would like to introduce Grant Sims, CEO of Genesis Energy LP. Mr. Sims will be joined by Kristin Jefelaitis, Chief Financial Officer and Chief Legal Officer Brian Sims, President and Chief Commercial Officer and Louie Niccol, Chief Accounting Officer. Speaker 200:02:14Good morning to everyone and thanks for listening in. As we mentioned in our earnings release this morning, Our financial results for the Q2 were slightly ahead of our internal expectations and once again demonstrated the resilient earnings power of our diversified Market leading businesses. Notably, because of steady production across our footprint, along with the continued ramp in volumes During the quarter, our soda ash business also returned to normal operating levels as rail service in and out of Green River, Wyoming was restored to adequate levels. In addition, our Marine Transportation segment continued to exceed our expectations, driven in large part by continued tightness for Jones Act equipment. As we look ahead to the remainder of the year, our expectation of the continued strong performance from our offshore Marine transportation segments will likely be somewhat offset by softer than previously expected soda ash prices, Primarily in our export markets, slowing industrial activity worldwide, a slower reopening of China's economy than we had Just 3 months ago, as well as anticipated new natural soda ash production from the Burun facility in Inner Mongolia Has driven many consumers of soda ash, especially in Asia and Latin America to work down existing inventories and ultimately This is a new soda ash volume securing the back half of twenty twenty three. Speaker 200:04:03When existing customers delay their purchasing activity Or otherwise refuse to take contracted volumes at the then contracted price, the most efficient option for us is to find a home for these potentially stranded volumes At the highest netback price we can get to ensure the tons move, so we can operate at full utilization to spread out our As discussed in this morning's release, We are today adjusting our full year guidance for adjusted EBITDA to a range of $725,000,000 to $745,000,000 for the full year, Which is only a little over 5% below our original guidance range, if you exclude the $15,000,000 we did not realize in the Q1 due to factors Outside of our control, black weather and inadequate railroad service. As you may recall, In 2022, we in fact exceeded our initial annual guidance by more than 15%, even after excluding approximately 41,000,000 The non recurring income we received in 2022. Having said that, let's put this revised 2023 outlook in perspective. First, we are still going to deliver record annual adjusted EBITDA for the partnership. 2nd, We are going to deliver record segment margin for Offshore Pipeline Transportation segment. Speaker 200:05:293rd, we are going to deliver segment margin for our marine transportation business that we have not seen since 2015. And finally, Even with the outlook for the rest of the year, it is still likely we will deliver a record contribution from our soda ash business. Furthermore, the midpoint of this revised guidance range is still delivering our stakeholders with consolidated sequential growth in a range of 8% to 10% Over our normalized 2022 performance, which again excludes the roughly $41,000,000 of non recurring income we received last year. Importantly, we also continue to expect to exit the year with a leverage ratio as calculated by our senior secured lenders At or slightly above our long term target leverage ratio of 4 times. Additionally, we expect to cover our Current distribution to common unitholders by some 4.3 times for the full year of 2023, not 1.3 Nor 1.6x, but 4.3x. Speaker 200:06:35Looking through the short term noise, I can sit here today and say the long term outlook As we mentioned in the release, we currently expect our financial performance in 2024 to be greater than 2023, Driven in large part by a known contracted and identified ramp in offshore volumes, And the additional soda ash volumes we expect to produce and sell from our nearly completed Granger expansion. Then in 2025, we would expect a significant step change in our offshore volumes and segment margin contributions as both Shenandoah Despite some expected volatility in soda ash margins over time, This ramp is expect in expected earnings gives us a clear line of sight to generate roughly $200,000,000 $300,000,000 maybe even 400,000,000 Common unit distributions at the current levels, maintenance capital requirements, principal payments on our Alkalad senior secured notes, De minimis growth capital, etcetera, starting in late 'twenty four and accelerating into 2025, an enviable position for a company our size. Now I would touch briefly on our individual business segments. Our Offshore Pipeline Transportation segment performed in line with, if not Slightly ahead of our internal expectations, the slight longer than anticipated planned producer downtime at 1 of our major host platforms. Speaker 200:08:41This extended downtime was partially offset by quicker than anticipated ramp in volumes from BP's operated Argos facility As we mentioned last quarter, in mid April, we started to receive 1st oil from BP's operated Argos floating production facility, Which is supporting the 14 wells pre drilled and completed at BP's operated Mad Dog II field. Argos is currently producing approximately 70,000 barrels of oil from just 4 of their 14 existing wells. Consistent with BP's public disclosures, we would expect volumes from Argos to ramp over the remainder of 2023 Towards its nameplate capacity of 140,000 barrels per day, with 100% of the volume flowing through our 64% owned and operated CHOPS pipe In addition to the 14 wells at the Mad Dog 2 field, BP recently announced a successful appraisal well that is an extension of the existing Mad Dog complex and could be developed through a 3 to 5 well tieback Sample of additional economic subsea tieback opportunities that exist once a host production facility is in place. All the volumes coming across Argos, Mad Dog and Atlantis will continue to add to our steady base of volumes flowing through our industry leading crude oil midstream Footprint in the Central Gulf of Mexico for decades decades to come. Speaker 200:10:30As we look ahead to the new volumes from Shenandoah in Salamanca in late 'twenty four and early 'twenty five, it is important to know that we remain on schedule and importantly on budget With our CHOPS expansion in the new zinc pipeline, with completion for both expected in the second half of twenty twenty four. The combined 160,000 barrels of oil per day of incremental contracted production handling capacity Is underpinning our investment and will provide Genesis with an approximate 5x construction multiple. This 5 times multiple is based solely on the firm minimum volume commitments, which as a reminder is set at approximately 70% of the volumes the operators expect to actually produce. Additionally, all of the new capacity we are currently installing It's not contracted with these first 2 anchor fields, as we like to call them. Therefore, to the extent the Anchor fields exceed these minimum volume levels, which we would expect, or if we are able to secure incremental third party volumes on our I know I've said this before, but I feel that it's important to reiterate that the activity levels we are seeing in the Gulf Continue to be as robust as I've seen them in my 30 plus years of focusing on the Gulf. Speaker 200:12:03There's been some recent industry discussion that the majority of the perceived Tier 1 acreage in short cycle onshore shale basins It's getting closer to full development. And as a result, you can see production levels plateauing. Whether or not you believe this, I can tell you this. We are seeing both existing and new operators with vast acreage positions in the Permian And other onshore shale basins looking to supplement their short cycle onshore production with longer cycle, larger scale, Cost efficient and lower carbon intensity production in the deepwater, which only adds to the future long term prospects of the Gulf of Mexico. The onshore shale basins really became exciting 15 to 20 years ago with the technological breakthrough of hydraulic fracturing. Speaker 200:12:58I can share that there are 2 significant technological breakthroughs that are driving this dramatic increase in activity in the deepwater Gulf of Mexico that we've repeatedly referenced. First, there have been significant advancements in obtaining and algorithmically processing Seismic data that allows the producing community to better identify and define geologic prospects, especially below salt And thereby significantly reducing exploratory risk and development costs of these world class reservoirs. 2nd, there have been significant advancements in the technology required to safely and responsibly exploit and produce Hydrocarbons from high pressure and high temperature reservoirs with some pressures exceeding 20,000 PSI. These technologies have been proven now by a number of operators and as a result, entire new development are being opened up in the Gulf of Mexico. They simply were technologically out of reach just 3 or 4 years ago. Speaker 200:14:04As the leading independent midstream provider for crude oil produced in the deepwater areas of the Central Gulf of Mexico, We are super excited about the future prospects of our core business, and we continue to believe the combination of strong, resilient, steady And growing base volumes, combined with contracted growth projects underpinned by firm take or pay agreements and the expected future activity described above, All will provide the foundation for growing and stable cash flows from our offshore pipeline transportation segment for decades decades ahead. Turning now to our Soda and Sulfur Services segment. While our soda ash business did return to a more normal operating quarter during the Q2, The broader macro story for soda ash has continued to soften and now seems to have quickly moved from a well balanced global market into a somewhat oversupplied market, primarily in our export markets. As we look back over the last 12 to 18 months, we have seen and we're ultimately the beneficiary of A market that saw unprecedented demand for growth for soda ash combined with lower global supply and an increasing cost structure for synthetic producers as a result of higher energy input costs, all of which ultimately drove pricing and margins to all time record highs. Speaker 200:15:34While we all had hoped this environment would last forever, in retrospect, it was never realistic to expect to continue At those margin levels for an extended period of time, and we ultimately knew soda ash prices and margins would return to historical averages at some point in the future. As we sit here today, the combination of slower global industrial production, a slower reopening of China's economy An anticipated new global natural gas natural supply, which suggests that pricing and margins will in fact return to historical averages sooner rather than later. Even with this revised outlook for the remainder of the year, we still believe we are likely to achieve the highest contribution in the history of our soda ash business this year. It is important to remember that soda ash is a manufacturing business that produces a product that in most applications has no known substitutes. Rather, our soda ash competes with an identical, synthetically produced product That generally costs twice as much to manufacture and has a far inferior environmental footprint relative to our own natural production. Speaker 200:16:49As a result of this cost advantage, naturally produced soda ash, which is all we do, is the baseload supply to the worldwide market throughout normal economic cycles. Less than 30% of the world's demand for soda ash is The other 70 plus percent of global demand is supplied by synthetically produced soda ash. So, at the margin, market clearing prices must be high enough to cover the relatively high cost of a synthetic producer And a natural producer will ultimately benefit and receive a relatively higher margin because of its lower cost structure. If you're going to be in a commodity business, this is the kind of economic position you want to be in. As we stated in the release, for the last 17 years, pro form a for the Granger expansion, this business has generated an average margin of approximately $50 per ton, And that includes through the down years during the Great Recession of 2,008 and 2,009 and The Black Swan COVID pandemic years of 2020 2021. Speaker 200:18:04Pro form a for the Granger expansion, We believe our approximately 4,800,000 tons of production per year should generate on average approximately 240,000,000 Per year for us, plus or minus, over a normalized cycle, around $200,000,000 in an off year, absent a black swan event, and maybe as much as $280,000,000 to $300,000,000 in a good year like we experienced just last year. While there will Always be some expected volatility in the segment performance given soda ash as a commodity. I would point out that this business Honest Face is not unlike some of our midstream peers that also have a portion of their earnings that is subject to commodity price volatility, Whether crude prices, natural gas prices, NGL prices, NGL nat gas spreads or basin differentials, I guarantee none of these peers have the advantages of being a market leader in a commodity that has no known substitute, Only competes with something that generally costs twice as much to make and has a reserve life of 3 or 4 100 years. As North America's largest producer of natural soda ash, Commodity remains a fundamental building block of global economic activity and continues to play an increasing role in the energy transition From solar panels to batteries for electric vehicles and renewables energy, we remain extremely bullish on the long term fundamentals of the soda ash business, regardless of any quarterly or annual price volatility. Speaker 200:19:47Our Granger remains on schedule to have 1st soda ash on the belt towards the end of Q3 or early in Q4. The incremental 750,000 tons will expand the total production capability of Granger to approximately 1,300,000 tons of soda ash per year. These effectively free incremental tons will not only be additional tons to sell at a margin starting later this year and into 24, but they will also help further reduce Granger's cost structure as we will soon be able to absorb Granger's fixed cost over the approximately one point Recently, we've spent a lot of time we haven't spent a lot of time discussing our sulfur services or what we used to refer to as our refinery services business. Just to remind everyone, we are by far the largest producer of sodium hydrosulfide in North America And also by far the largest supplier of the sodium hydrosulfide in North as well as South America. 2023 has and will be one of the worst years in recent memory for the financial contribution from this business, Which has averaged around $65,000,000 of segment contribution margins for the 17 years that we've owned it. Speaker 200:21:25This is Strictly driven by supply issues, with operating difficulties at a number of our host refineries, where we have the facilities I handle the host's sulfur issues and make sodium hydrosulfide that we in turn take in kind and sell. We can sell everything we can make. We just haven't been able to make as much as we can sell due to various operating issues at our host refineries. Our 'twenty three guidance reflects a reduction in the contribution from this market leading business of around $30,000,000 From 2022 and around $20,000,000 from its historical average. We are doing everything we can to address our supply issues And we believe we can get this business back on that average trend over the next several years. Speaker 200:22:20Our Marine Transportation segment continues to meet or exceed expectations as market conditions and demand fundamentals continue to remain steady. We continue to operate at or near 100 percent utilization for all classes of our vessels, driven in large part by continued shortage of Jones Act This lack of new supply and ongoing retirements of older Jones Act vessels, combined with steady demand, Continues to drive spot day rates and longer term contracted rates across our fleet, approaching and hopefully As we mentioned in our earnings release, We recently entered into a new 3.5 year contract for the American Phoenix with a creditworthy counterparty. The new contract term will begin immediately following its The current contract that runs through mid January 2024 and will provide Genesis with the highest day rate we have ever received on the American Phoenix since we first purchased the vessel in late 2014. This new contract is indicative of the broader market today for Jones Act vessels with multiple potential customers looking to secure adequate tonnage Over multiple years to move crude oil or refined products along the Gulf Coast, into the Heartland are to and from the Gulf Coast, East Coast and West Coast. Speaker 200:23:50We believe these broader industry fundamentals should continue to remain favorable For both our Brown and Bluewater fleets for the foreseeable future and thus can provide us with more opportunities to term out larger portions of the earnings profile from our marine transportation to the extent it makes sense. Regardless, these market conditions when combined with the American Phoenix Effectively being contracted through the middle of 2027 should set up our Marine Transportation segment to deliver higher and steady earnings For the next few years, as competitors said recently, the marine transport business is in the very early innings of an upward cycle And day rates must meaningfully increase from where we are today to induce the construction of significant new tonnage across all classes of vessels. We like our position. As we look ahead, we continue to remain focused on completing our capital program in the 12 to 15 months, all while not losing focus on our leverage ratio. As I mentioned earlier, and will reiterate again, The long term story for Genesis has never been brighter. Speaker 200:25:02Upon the completion of our current growth capital program, We expect to start generating approximately $200,000,000 $300,000,000 maybe $400,000,000 per year of cash flow after all. Let me repeat after all cash obligations I mentioned earlier, starting in late 'twenty four and accelerating into 2025. This will provide us with ample opportunity to deliver increasing value for everyone in our capital structure, while maintaining and strengthening our financial flexibility as well as potentially simplifying our balance sheet. I would again like to encourage everyone listening to this call to review our earnings supplement presentation on our website that details the key takeaways and highlights from our 2nd quarter earnings the extent that you have time. Finally, I'd like to say that the management team and the Board of Directors remain steadfast in our commitment to building long term value For all of our stakeholders, and we believe the decisions we are making reflect this commitment and our confidence in Genesis moving forward. Speaker 200:26:05I'd once again like to recognize our entire workforce for their individual efforts and unwavering commitment to safe and responsible operations. And I'm extremely proud to be associated with each and every one of you. With that, I'll turn it back to the moderator for Speaker 300:26:47Great. Thanks. Hey, Grant. So to Ash, I want to start there. You've bracketed with the Your expansion at a range of kind of $200,000,000 in a down year, dollars 240,000,000 Call it mid cycle and $280,000,000 to $300,000,000 in a good year. Speaker 300:27:06So as you sit today, just given all the dynamics Mongolian production coming on and where you see demand trending, is 2024 shaping up To be on the downside of that bracketed range or at the mid cycle, I just want to understand a little bit better how you frame that 2 $100,000,000 downside and how some of your customers clearing their inventory before coming back for deliveries could direct to that lower bound? Thanks. Speaker 200:27:35It's a good question, TJ. I think it's obviously, it's a dynamic market. But as we sit here today, We would think that we're going to be at the midpoint of that range in 'twenty four given our contracted portfolio, the Portion of our contracts are subject to caps and collars and in essence Already known pricing for 'twenty four as well as we have seen recently, and this is very recent, but What appears to be a bottoming of prices. So at this point, I think that we view 24% as kind of being Mid cycle outcome. Speaker 300:28:22Okay. Makes sense. And then looking at 2025, clearly An outlook for a step change to more meaningful free cash flow. If I can just kind of focus on CapEx, Once you get past zinc and the CHOPS expansion, what are the material potential capital projects that may Are there other Gulf projects you are pursuing that would take new build pipe? Or is there any major spend in soda ash you would expect to need beyond the Granger expansion? Speaker 300:28:51Thanks. Speaker 200:28:53Again, good question. No, there are absolutely no additional major capital The expenditures anticipated or that we're working on or even on our radar screen at this point in time, as I said in the prepared remarks, The expansions and the construction of zinc and the capacity associated with zinc as well as The expansion of the CHOPS system in round terms around 50% of the incremental capacity associated with Shenandoah That we're putting in is contracted for by the anchor tenants, so to speak. So we have prebuilt capacity To handle additional volumes that and we are in discussion on additional volumes, but that would not require additional capital from us, but would only So the and there are no additional significant growth capital expenditures From associated with Grainger, as I did reference In the prepared comments, Granger is identical technology to our ELDM facility at Wesvaco, which is one of our Production facilities are our Wesvaco facility, but originally it had a design capacity of 650,000 tons per year and Over 30 years with a little bit of money here, a little bit there, and I'm talking $1,000,000 or whatever. Over the 30 years, we actually produced Probably around 850,000 tons. Speaker 200:30:31So that's a type of small debottlenecking over a long period of time opportunities. That's a long winded answer that the growth capital stops in, Call it the Q3, maybe some of the cash goes out the door in the Q4 of 'twenty four and we are in position To reap the rewards from the investments that we have made. Speaker 300:31:02Great. Thanks. I'll leave Speaker 400:31:04it there. Speaker 200:31:04Thank you. Operator00:31:08Okay. Next up, we have Michael Blum. Your line is now open. One second, Michael just disappeared. Looks like Michael's line actually disconnected. Operator00:31:20So we'll go to So next up, we'll go to Wade Duque. Speaker 500:31:26Good morning, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. Last quarter, you all gave us a little color on sort of the various areas of end market demand. I think you pointed to On the soda ash business that is, I think you pointed to some weakness in consumer related. Can you give us a little more color on what you're seeing on that front? Speaker 200:31:50Yes. I said a little bit of the consumer is pulling in discretionary Expenditures under the circumstances kind of for the first time, we're seeing a decline in demand for container Glass, maybe people were drinking less or whatever that's indicative of. Perhaps, obviously, a little bit of a slowdown in general construction spending and that's really what's the main driver in the weakening or the less The robust recovery in the Chinese economy is the real estate sector and construction sector is lagging behind Given uncertainties and other things, so that's really where the pressure points are, if you will, on the demand side and generally speaking. But again, somewhat tempering that is and that's not unique to China, I mean, other economies are slowing down a little bit, but kind of a little bit of the Offset that is happening is the dramatic increase in demand for soda ash for the construction of solar panels. And Certainly, you read a bunch of the headlines about lithium production and a number of Even here in the U. Speaker 200:33:17S. As well as internationally, increased lithium production to meet the demand for electric vehicles, All of which requires soda ash and usually in one form or another. So that's kind of where the There it is, but there's definitely, as we said in the remarks and in the release that it's a dynamic situation and there's It's a much more balanced market than it was in 2022. And but it's Cyclical market and we are very comfortable with where we're at. Speaker 500:33:53Wonderful. Thank you. That's very helpful. Just switching gears a little bit, I'm wondering if you might be able to sort of remind us, refresh us I guess capital allocation plans as you look out the next couple of years, you've got a obviously big fall off in spending next year and the year after. Maybe if you could bracket for us kind of timing what your capital allocation priorities are and when you think ultimately You might start thinking about increased shareholder returns in one way, shape or form. Speaker 500:34:27That's all I've got. Thank Speaker 200:34:29Yes. No, it's a good question. I mean, I think that it's going to be and we are very excited, as we said, to Have the high class problem of what do we do with $200,000,000 $300,000,000 $400,000,000 a year of no matter how you slice and dice it discretionary cash flow. With how our banks look at the world, which is the only covenant we have in our capital structure around 4 times. And then with that, then we have the flexibility to either simplify the capital structure in terms of perhaps Calling in or redeeming some of the existing convertible preferred and or look at returning capital To the equity to the common equity holders, so all while maintaining that targeted leverage ratio. Speaker 200:35:29So I can't sit here today. It's something that the Board will consider as we go forward, but it's Certainly, we have a lot of flexibility to return capital to everyone in the structure and all while maintaining a very conservative Debt profile for the company. Speaker 500:35:51Awesome. Thank you very much. Speaker 200:35:53Okay. Thank you. Operator00:35:58All right. Next up, we are going to cut to Michael Blum. But first, I just Next up, we have Michael Bilerman. Your line is now open. Speaker 400:36:17Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Wanted to just one point of clarification for the balance of 2023 on soda ash. So have you now effectively locked in prices for the balance of the year? Is there still some potential movement this year? Speaker 200:36:36There is as we have a portion of our portfolio is still Subject to negotiation of price for the 4th quarter. But we've taken into account where we think that that's going to Come out as we sit here kind of halfway through the Q3 and based upon what we see, we've taken that into account in providing the range that we gave you. Speaker 400:37:04Okay, perfect. Thanks. And then, Grant, you made some in relation to the sulfur business, You talked a little bit about you're going to take some steps to get that kind of back to its normal kind of run rate cash flow. Can you talk a little bit about what those steps may be? Speaker 200:37:22It's basically we think that it was beyond our control what has happened to the number of our host Refineries, one of our locations, actually half of the crude oil Processing capacity and therefore sulfur handling requirement has been converted to Biofuels, so that's there's nothing we can do about that structural thing other than try to increase production from some of our other facilities. So We believe that the operating upsets that occurred by a number of our host refineries are behind them. We're seeing a return to normal operating rates here in the Q3 and hopefully accelerating into the To the 4th and based upon our daily discussions with the host refineries, because we want to be Consistent and ready to help them as they ramp up that we think that 'twenty four will be a Better production year from our other locations than we experienced in 'twenty 3. Okay. Well, thanks everybody for joining and we look forward to continuing a dialogue with each and every one of you. Speaker 200:38:59Thank you. Operator00:39:04All right, ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude your call. You may now disconnect your lines and thank you again for joining us today.Read morePowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallGenesis Energy Q2 202300:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsSlide DeckPress Release(8-K)Quarterly report(10-Q) Genesis Energy Earnings HeadlinesWhy Genesis Energy (GEL) Is Up the Most So Far in 2025April 26 at 7:03 PM | msn.comGenesis Energy LP (GEL) Shares Up 3.84% on Apr 14April 14, 2025 | gurufocus.comFeds Just Admitted It—They Can Take Your CashHere’s the cold truth: If your money is sitting idle in a bank account, it’s vulnerable. That’s why thousands of smart, forward-thinking individuals are making the move—out of the system and into real, untouchable assets. Because once your funds are frozen, it’s too late.April 28, 2025 | Priority Gold (Ad)Genesis Energy, L.P. Declares Quarterly DistributionApril 10, 2025 | gurufocus.comGenesis Energy LP Announces Quarterly Cash Distribution and Upcoming Earnings CallApril 10, 2025 | gurufocus.comGenesis Energy, L.P. Declares Quarterly Distribution | GEL Stock NewsApril 10, 2025 | gurufocus.comSee More Genesis Energy Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like Genesis Energy? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on Genesis Energy and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About Genesis EnergyGenesis Energy (NYSE:GEL) provides integrated suite of midstream services in crude oil and natural gas industry in the United States. It operates through Offshore Pipeline Transportation, Soda and Sulfur Services, Marine Transportation, and Onshore Facilities and Transportation segments. The Offshore Pipeline Transportation segment engages in offshore crude oil and natural gas pipeline transportation and handling operations, as well as deep water pipeline servicing. This segment also owns interests in offshore crude oil and natural gas pipeline systems, platforms, and related infrastructure. The Soda and Sulfur Services segment produces, markets, and sells soda ash; and provides sulfur removal services. This segment also owns and operates soda ash production facilities, underground trona ore mines and brine solution mining operations and related equipment, and logistics and other assets; and sells sodium hydrosulfide and caustic soda to industrial and commercial companies involved in the mining of base metals. The Marine Transportation segment offers waterborne transportation of petroleum and crude oil in North America. This segment owns a fleet of 91 barges and 42 push/tow boats. The Onshore Facilities and Transportation segment offers onshore facilities and transportation services to crude oil refineries and producers by purchasing, transporting, storing, blending, and marketing crude oil and refined products; and operates trucks, trailers, railcars, and terminals and tankage in various locations along the Gulf Coast. This segment also transports crude oil, as well as owns four onshore crude oil pipeline systems and four operational crude oil rail unloading facilities. The company was incorporated in 1996 and is headquartered in Houston, Texas.View Genesis Energy ProfileRead more More Earnings Resources from MarketBeat Earnings Tools Today's Earnings Tomorrow's Earnings Next Week's Earnings Upcoming Earnings Calls Earnings Newsletter Earnings Call Transcripts Earnings Beats & Misses Corporate Guidance Earnings Screener Earnings By Country U.S. Earnings Reports Canadian Earnings Reports U.K. Earnings Reports Latest Articles Markets Think Robinhood Earnings Could Send the Stock UpIs the Floor in for Lam Research After Bullish Earnings?Texas Instruments: Earnings Beat, Upbeat Guidance Fuel RecoveryMarket Anticipation Builds: Joby Stock Climbs Ahead of EarningsIs Intuitive Surgical a Buy After Volatile Reaction to Earnings?Seismic Shift at Intel: Massive Layoffs Precede Crucial EarningsRocket Lab Lands New Contract, Builds Momentum Ahead of Earnings Upcoming Earnings AstraZeneca (4/29/2025)Booking (4/29/2025)DoorDash (4/29/2025)Honeywell International (4/29/2025)Mondelez International (4/29/2025)PayPal (4/29/2025)Regeneron Pharmaceuticals (4/29/2025)Starbucks (4/29/2025)American Tower (4/29/2025)América Móvil (4/29/2025) Get 30 Days of MarketBeat All Access for Free Sign up for MarketBeat All Access to gain access to MarketBeat's full suite of research tools. 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There are 6 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Genesis Energy Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. After the prepared remarks, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Instructions will be given at that time. And Without further ado, I will now turn the program over to Duane Morley. Speaker 100:00:20Thanks, Chris. Good morning. Welcome to the 2023 Second Quarter Conference Call for Genesis Energy. Genesis has 4 business segments. The Offshore Pipeline Transportation segment is engaged in providing the critical infrastructure to move oil produced from the long lived world class reservoirs in the Deepwater Gulf Onshore Refining Centers. Speaker 100:00:41The soda and sulfur services segment includes trona, trona based exploring, mining, processing, producing, marketing and selling activities as well as the processing of sour gas streams to remove sulfur at refining operations. The Onshore Facilities and Transportation segment is engaged in the transportation, handling, blending, storage and supply of energy products, including crude oil and refined products. The Marine Transportation segment is engaged in the maritime transportation of primarily refined petroleum products. Genesis' operations are primarily located in Wyoming, Gulf Coast States and the Gulf of Mexico. During this conference call, management may be making forward looking statements The meaning of the Securities Act of 1933 and the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, the law provides safe harbor provisions Protection to encourage companies to provide forward looking information. Speaker 100:01:35Genesis intends to avail itself of those Safe Harbor provisions and directs you to its most recently filed and future filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We also encourage you to visit our website at the most comparable GAAP financial measures. At this time, I would like to introduce Grant Sims, CEO of Genesis Energy LP. Mr. Sims will be joined by Kristin Jefelaitis, Chief Financial Officer and Chief Legal Officer Brian Sims, President and Chief Commercial Officer and Louie Niccol, Chief Accounting Officer. Speaker 200:02:14Good morning to everyone and thanks for listening in. As we mentioned in our earnings release this morning, Our financial results for the Q2 were slightly ahead of our internal expectations and once again demonstrated the resilient earnings power of our diversified Market leading businesses. Notably, because of steady production across our footprint, along with the continued ramp in volumes During the quarter, our soda ash business also returned to normal operating levels as rail service in and out of Green River, Wyoming was restored to adequate levels. In addition, our Marine Transportation segment continued to exceed our expectations, driven in large part by continued tightness for Jones Act equipment. As we look ahead to the remainder of the year, our expectation of the continued strong performance from our offshore Marine transportation segments will likely be somewhat offset by softer than previously expected soda ash prices, Primarily in our export markets, slowing industrial activity worldwide, a slower reopening of China's economy than we had Just 3 months ago, as well as anticipated new natural soda ash production from the Burun facility in Inner Mongolia Has driven many consumers of soda ash, especially in Asia and Latin America to work down existing inventories and ultimately This is a new soda ash volume securing the back half of twenty twenty three. Speaker 200:04:03When existing customers delay their purchasing activity Or otherwise refuse to take contracted volumes at the then contracted price, the most efficient option for us is to find a home for these potentially stranded volumes At the highest netback price we can get to ensure the tons move, so we can operate at full utilization to spread out our As discussed in this morning's release, We are today adjusting our full year guidance for adjusted EBITDA to a range of $725,000,000 to $745,000,000 for the full year, Which is only a little over 5% below our original guidance range, if you exclude the $15,000,000 we did not realize in the Q1 due to factors Outside of our control, black weather and inadequate railroad service. As you may recall, In 2022, we in fact exceeded our initial annual guidance by more than 15%, even after excluding approximately 41,000,000 The non recurring income we received in 2022. Having said that, let's put this revised 2023 outlook in perspective. First, we are still going to deliver record annual adjusted EBITDA for the partnership. 2nd, We are going to deliver record segment margin for Offshore Pipeline Transportation segment. Speaker 200:05:293rd, we are going to deliver segment margin for our marine transportation business that we have not seen since 2015. And finally, Even with the outlook for the rest of the year, it is still likely we will deliver a record contribution from our soda ash business. Furthermore, the midpoint of this revised guidance range is still delivering our stakeholders with consolidated sequential growth in a range of 8% to 10% Over our normalized 2022 performance, which again excludes the roughly $41,000,000 of non recurring income we received last year. Importantly, we also continue to expect to exit the year with a leverage ratio as calculated by our senior secured lenders At or slightly above our long term target leverage ratio of 4 times. Additionally, we expect to cover our Current distribution to common unitholders by some 4.3 times for the full year of 2023, not 1.3 Nor 1.6x, but 4.3x. Speaker 200:06:35Looking through the short term noise, I can sit here today and say the long term outlook As we mentioned in the release, we currently expect our financial performance in 2024 to be greater than 2023, Driven in large part by a known contracted and identified ramp in offshore volumes, And the additional soda ash volumes we expect to produce and sell from our nearly completed Granger expansion. Then in 2025, we would expect a significant step change in our offshore volumes and segment margin contributions as both Shenandoah Despite some expected volatility in soda ash margins over time, This ramp is expect in expected earnings gives us a clear line of sight to generate roughly $200,000,000 $300,000,000 maybe even 400,000,000 Common unit distributions at the current levels, maintenance capital requirements, principal payments on our Alkalad senior secured notes, De minimis growth capital, etcetera, starting in late 'twenty four and accelerating into 2025, an enviable position for a company our size. Now I would touch briefly on our individual business segments. Our Offshore Pipeline Transportation segment performed in line with, if not Slightly ahead of our internal expectations, the slight longer than anticipated planned producer downtime at 1 of our major host platforms. Speaker 200:08:41This extended downtime was partially offset by quicker than anticipated ramp in volumes from BP's operated Argos facility As we mentioned last quarter, in mid April, we started to receive 1st oil from BP's operated Argos floating production facility, Which is supporting the 14 wells pre drilled and completed at BP's operated Mad Dog II field. Argos is currently producing approximately 70,000 barrels of oil from just 4 of their 14 existing wells. Consistent with BP's public disclosures, we would expect volumes from Argos to ramp over the remainder of 2023 Towards its nameplate capacity of 140,000 barrels per day, with 100% of the volume flowing through our 64% owned and operated CHOPS pipe In addition to the 14 wells at the Mad Dog 2 field, BP recently announced a successful appraisal well that is an extension of the existing Mad Dog complex and could be developed through a 3 to 5 well tieback Sample of additional economic subsea tieback opportunities that exist once a host production facility is in place. All the volumes coming across Argos, Mad Dog and Atlantis will continue to add to our steady base of volumes flowing through our industry leading crude oil midstream Footprint in the Central Gulf of Mexico for decades decades to come. Speaker 200:10:30As we look ahead to the new volumes from Shenandoah in Salamanca in late 'twenty four and early 'twenty five, it is important to know that we remain on schedule and importantly on budget With our CHOPS expansion in the new zinc pipeline, with completion for both expected in the second half of twenty twenty four. The combined 160,000 barrels of oil per day of incremental contracted production handling capacity Is underpinning our investment and will provide Genesis with an approximate 5x construction multiple. This 5 times multiple is based solely on the firm minimum volume commitments, which as a reminder is set at approximately 70% of the volumes the operators expect to actually produce. Additionally, all of the new capacity we are currently installing It's not contracted with these first 2 anchor fields, as we like to call them. Therefore, to the extent the Anchor fields exceed these minimum volume levels, which we would expect, or if we are able to secure incremental third party volumes on our I know I've said this before, but I feel that it's important to reiterate that the activity levels we are seeing in the Gulf Continue to be as robust as I've seen them in my 30 plus years of focusing on the Gulf. Speaker 200:12:03There's been some recent industry discussion that the majority of the perceived Tier 1 acreage in short cycle onshore shale basins It's getting closer to full development. And as a result, you can see production levels plateauing. Whether or not you believe this, I can tell you this. We are seeing both existing and new operators with vast acreage positions in the Permian And other onshore shale basins looking to supplement their short cycle onshore production with longer cycle, larger scale, Cost efficient and lower carbon intensity production in the deepwater, which only adds to the future long term prospects of the Gulf of Mexico. The onshore shale basins really became exciting 15 to 20 years ago with the technological breakthrough of hydraulic fracturing. Speaker 200:12:58I can share that there are 2 significant technological breakthroughs that are driving this dramatic increase in activity in the deepwater Gulf of Mexico that we've repeatedly referenced. First, there have been significant advancements in obtaining and algorithmically processing Seismic data that allows the producing community to better identify and define geologic prospects, especially below salt And thereby significantly reducing exploratory risk and development costs of these world class reservoirs. 2nd, there have been significant advancements in the technology required to safely and responsibly exploit and produce Hydrocarbons from high pressure and high temperature reservoirs with some pressures exceeding 20,000 PSI. These technologies have been proven now by a number of operators and as a result, entire new development are being opened up in the Gulf of Mexico. They simply were technologically out of reach just 3 or 4 years ago. Speaker 200:14:04As the leading independent midstream provider for crude oil produced in the deepwater areas of the Central Gulf of Mexico, We are super excited about the future prospects of our core business, and we continue to believe the combination of strong, resilient, steady And growing base volumes, combined with contracted growth projects underpinned by firm take or pay agreements and the expected future activity described above, All will provide the foundation for growing and stable cash flows from our offshore pipeline transportation segment for decades decades ahead. Turning now to our Soda and Sulfur Services segment. While our soda ash business did return to a more normal operating quarter during the Q2, The broader macro story for soda ash has continued to soften and now seems to have quickly moved from a well balanced global market into a somewhat oversupplied market, primarily in our export markets. As we look back over the last 12 to 18 months, we have seen and we're ultimately the beneficiary of A market that saw unprecedented demand for growth for soda ash combined with lower global supply and an increasing cost structure for synthetic producers as a result of higher energy input costs, all of which ultimately drove pricing and margins to all time record highs. Speaker 200:15:34While we all had hoped this environment would last forever, in retrospect, it was never realistic to expect to continue At those margin levels for an extended period of time, and we ultimately knew soda ash prices and margins would return to historical averages at some point in the future. As we sit here today, the combination of slower global industrial production, a slower reopening of China's economy An anticipated new global natural gas natural supply, which suggests that pricing and margins will in fact return to historical averages sooner rather than later. Even with this revised outlook for the remainder of the year, we still believe we are likely to achieve the highest contribution in the history of our soda ash business this year. It is important to remember that soda ash is a manufacturing business that produces a product that in most applications has no known substitutes. Rather, our soda ash competes with an identical, synthetically produced product That generally costs twice as much to manufacture and has a far inferior environmental footprint relative to our own natural production. Speaker 200:16:49As a result of this cost advantage, naturally produced soda ash, which is all we do, is the baseload supply to the worldwide market throughout normal economic cycles. Less than 30% of the world's demand for soda ash is The other 70 plus percent of global demand is supplied by synthetically produced soda ash. So, at the margin, market clearing prices must be high enough to cover the relatively high cost of a synthetic producer And a natural producer will ultimately benefit and receive a relatively higher margin because of its lower cost structure. If you're going to be in a commodity business, this is the kind of economic position you want to be in. As we stated in the release, for the last 17 years, pro form a for the Granger expansion, this business has generated an average margin of approximately $50 per ton, And that includes through the down years during the Great Recession of 2,008 and 2,009 and The Black Swan COVID pandemic years of 2020 2021. Speaker 200:18:04Pro form a for the Granger expansion, We believe our approximately 4,800,000 tons of production per year should generate on average approximately 240,000,000 Per year for us, plus or minus, over a normalized cycle, around $200,000,000 in an off year, absent a black swan event, and maybe as much as $280,000,000 to $300,000,000 in a good year like we experienced just last year. While there will Always be some expected volatility in the segment performance given soda ash as a commodity. I would point out that this business Honest Face is not unlike some of our midstream peers that also have a portion of their earnings that is subject to commodity price volatility, Whether crude prices, natural gas prices, NGL prices, NGL nat gas spreads or basin differentials, I guarantee none of these peers have the advantages of being a market leader in a commodity that has no known substitute, Only competes with something that generally costs twice as much to make and has a reserve life of 3 or 4 100 years. As North America's largest producer of natural soda ash, Commodity remains a fundamental building block of global economic activity and continues to play an increasing role in the energy transition From solar panels to batteries for electric vehicles and renewables energy, we remain extremely bullish on the long term fundamentals of the soda ash business, regardless of any quarterly or annual price volatility. Speaker 200:19:47Our Granger remains on schedule to have 1st soda ash on the belt towards the end of Q3 or early in Q4. The incremental 750,000 tons will expand the total production capability of Granger to approximately 1,300,000 tons of soda ash per year. These effectively free incremental tons will not only be additional tons to sell at a margin starting later this year and into 24, but they will also help further reduce Granger's cost structure as we will soon be able to absorb Granger's fixed cost over the approximately one point Recently, we've spent a lot of time we haven't spent a lot of time discussing our sulfur services or what we used to refer to as our refinery services business. Just to remind everyone, we are by far the largest producer of sodium hydrosulfide in North America And also by far the largest supplier of the sodium hydrosulfide in North as well as South America. 2023 has and will be one of the worst years in recent memory for the financial contribution from this business, Which has averaged around $65,000,000 of segment contribution margins for the 17 years that we've owned it. Speaker 200:21:25This is Strictly driven by supply issues, with operating difficulties at a number of our host refineries, where we have the facilities I handle the host's sulfur issues and make sodium hydrosulfide that we in turn take in kind and sell. We can sell everything we can make. We just haven't been able to make as much as we can sell due to various operating issues at our host refineries. Our 'twenty three guidance reflects a reduction in the contribution from this market leading business of around $30,000,000 From 2022 and around $20,000,000 from its historical average. We are doing everything we can to address our supply issues And we believe we can get this business back on that average trend over the next several years. Speaker 200:22:20Our Marine Transportation segment continues to meet or exceed expectations as market conditions and demand fundamentals continue to remain steady. We continue to operate at or near 100 percent utilization for all classes of our vessels, driven in large part by continued shortage of Jones Act This lack of new supply and ongoing retirements of older Jones Act vessels, combined with steady demand, Continues to drive spot day rates and longer term contracted rates across our fleet, approaching and hopefully As we mentioned in our earnings release, We recently entered into a new 3.5 year contract for the American Phoenix with a creditworthy counterparty. The new contract term will begin immediately following its The current contract that runs through mid January 2024 and will provide Genesis with the highest day rate we have ever received on the American Phoenix since we first purchased the vessel in late 2014. This new contract is indicative of the broader market today for Jones Act vessels with multiple potential customers looking to secure adequate tonnage Over multiple years to move crude oil or refined products along the Gulf Coast, into the Heartland are to and from the Gulf Coast, East Coast and West Coast. Speaker 200:23:50We believe these broader industry fundamentals should continue to remain favorable For both our Brown and Bluewater fleets for the foreseeable future and thus can provide us with more opportunities to term out larger portions of the earnings profile from our marine transportation to the extent it makes sense. Regardless, these market conditions when combined with the American Phoenix Effectively being contracted through the middle of 2027 should set up our Marine Transportation segment to deliver higher and steady earnings For the next few years, as competitors said recently, the marine transport business is in the very early innings of an upward cycle And day rates must meaningfully increase from where we are today to induce the construction of significant new tonnage across all classes of vessels. We like our position. As we look ahead, we continue to remain focused on completing our capital program in the 12 to 15 months, all while not losing focus on our leverage ratio. As I mentioned earlier, and will reiterate again, The long term story for Genesis has never been brighter. Speaker 200:25:02Upon the completion of our current growth capital program, We expect to start generating approximately $200,000,000 $300,000,000 maybe $400,000,000 per year of cash flow after all. Let me repeat after all cash obligations I mentioned earlier, starting in late 'twenty four and accelerating into 2025. This will provide us with ample opportunity to deliver increasing value for everyone in our capital structure, while maintaining and strengthening our financial flexibility as well as potentially simplifying our balance sheet. I would again like to encourage everyone listening to this call to review our earnings supplement presentation on our website that details the key takeaways and highlights from our 2nd quarter earnings the extent that you have time. Finally, I'd like to say that the management team and the Board of Directors remain steadfast in our commitment to building long term value For all of our stakeholders, and we believe the decisions we are making reflect this commitment and our confidence in Genesis moving forward. Speaker 200:26:05I'd once again like to recognize our entire workforce for their individual efforts and unwavering commitment to safe and responsible operations. And I'm extremely proud to be associated with each and every one of you. With that, I'll turn it back to the moderator for Speaker 300:26:47Great. Thanks. Hey, Grant. So to Ash, I want to start there. You've bracketed with the Your expansion at a range of kind of $200,000,000 in a down year, dollars 240,000,000 Call it mid cycle and $280,000,000 to $300,000,000 in a good year. Speaker 300:27:06So as you sit today, just given all the dynamics Mongolian production coming on and where you see demand trending, is 2024 shaping up To be on the downside of that bracketed range or at the mid cycle, I just want to understand a little bit better how you frame that 2 $100,000,000 downside and how some of your customers clearing their inventory before coming back for deliveries could direct to that lower bound? Thanks. Speaker 200:27:35It's a good question, TJ. I think it's obviously, it's a dynamic market. But as we sit here today, We would think that we're going to be at the midpoint of that range in 'twenty four given our contracted portfolio, the Portion of our contracts are subject to caps and collars and in essence Already known pricing for 'twenty four as well as we have seen recently, and this is very recent, but What appears to be a bottoming of prices. So at this point, I think that we view 24% as kind of being Mid cycle outcome. Speaker 300:28:22Okay. Makes sense. And then looking at 2025, clearly An outlook for a step change to more meaningful free cash flow. If I can just kind of focus on CapEx, Once you get past zinc and the CHOPS expansion, what are the material potential capital projects that may Are there other Gulf projects you are pursuing that would take new build pipe? Or is there any major spend in soda ash you would expect to need beyond the Granger expansion? Speaker 300:28:51Thanks. Speaker 200:28:53Again, good question. No, there are absolutely no additional major capital The expenditures anticipated or that we're working on or even on our radar screen at this point in time, as I said in the prepared remarks, The expansions and the construction of zinc and the capacity associated with zinc as well as The expansion of the CHOPS system in round terms around 50% of the incremental capacity associated with Shenandoah That we're putting in is contracted for by the anchor tenants, so to speak. So we have prebuilt capacity To handle additional volumes that and we are in discussion on additional volumes, but that would not require additional capital from us, but would only So the and there are no additional significant growth capital expenditures From associated with Grainger, as I did reference In the prepared comments, Granger is identical technology to our ELDM facility at Wesvaco, which is one of our Production facilities are our Wesvaco facility, but originally it had a design capacity of 650,000 tons per year and Over 30 years with a little bit of money here, a little bit there, and I'm talking $1,000,000 or whatever. Over the 30 years, we actually produced Probably around 850,000 tons. Speaker 200:30:31So that's a type of small debottlenecking over a long period of time opportunities. That's a long winded answer that the growth capital stops in, Call it the Q3, maybe some of the cash goes out the door in the Q4 of 'twenty four and we are in position To reap the rewards from the investments that we have made. Speaker 300:31:02Great. Thanks. I'll leave Speaker 400:31:04it there. Speaker 200:31:04Thank you. Operator00:31:08Okay. Next up, we have Michael Blum. Your line is now open. One second, Michael just disappeared. Looks like Michael's line actually disconnected. Operator00:31:20So we'll go to So next up, we'll go to Wade Duque. Speaker 500:31:26Good morning, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. Last quarter, you all gave us a little color on sort of the various areas of end market demand. I think you pointed to On the soda ash business that is, I think you pointed to some weakness in consumer related. Can you give us a little more color on what you're seeing on that front? Speaker 200:31:50Yes. I said a little bit of the consumer is pulling in discretionary Expenditures under the circumstances kind of for the first time, we're seeing a decline in demand for container Glass, maybe people were drinking less or whatever that's indicative of. Perhaps, obviously, a little bit of a slowdown in general construction spending and that's really what's the main driver in the weakening or the less The robust recovery in the Chinese economy is the real estate sector and construction sector is lagging behind Given uncertainties and other things, so that's really where the pressure points are, if you will, on the demand side and generally speaking. But again, somewhat tempering that is and that's not unique to China, I mean, other economies are slowing down a little bit, but kind of a little bit of the Offset that is happening is the dramatic increase in demand for soda ash for the construction of solar panels. And Certainly, you read a bunch of the headlines about lithium production and a number of Even here in the U. Speaker 200:33:17S. As well as internationally, increased lithium production to meet the demand for electric vehicles, All of which requires soda ash and usually in one form or another. So that's kind of where the There it is, but there's definitely, as we said in the remarks and in the release that it's a dynamic situation and there's It's a much more balanced market than it was in 2022. And but it's Cyclical market and we are very comfortable with where we're at. Speaker 500:33:53Wonderful. Thank you. That's very helpful. Just switching gears a little bit, I'm wondering if you might be able to sort of remind us, refresh us I guess capital allocation plans as you look out the next couple of years, you've got a obviously big fall off in spending next year and the year after. Maybe if you could bracket for us kind of timing what your capital allocation priorities are and when you think ultimately You might start thinking about increased shareholder returns in one way, shape or form. Speaker 500:34:27That's all I've got. Thank Speaker 200:34:29Yes. No, it's a good question. I mean, I think that it's going to be and we are very excited, as we said, to Have the high class problem of what do we do with $200,000,000 $300,000,000 $400,000,000 a year of no matter how you slice and dice it discretionary cash flow. With how our banks look at the world, which is the only covenant we have in our capital structure around 4 times. And then with that, then we have the flexibility to either simplify the capital structure in terms of perhaps Calling in or redeeming some of the existing convertible preferred and or look at returning capital To the equity to the common equity holders, so all while maintaining that targeted leverage ratio. Speaker 200:35:29So I can't sit here today. It's something that the Board will consider as we go forward, but it's Certainly, we have a lot of flexibility to return capital to everyone in the structure and all while maintaining a very conservative Debt profile for the company. Speaker 500:35:51Awesome. Thank you very much. Speaker 200:35:53Okay. Thank you. Operator00:35:58All right. Next up, we are going to cut to Michael Blum. But first, I just Next up, we have Michael Bilerman. Your line is now open. Speaker 400:36:17Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Wanted to just one point of clarification for the balance of 2023 on soda ash. So have you now effectively locked in prices for the balance of the year? Is there still some potential movement this year? Speaker 200:36:36There is as we have a portion of our portfolio is still Subject to negotiation of price for the 4th quarter. But we've taken into account where we think that that's going to Come out as we sit here kind of halfway through the Q3 and based upon what we see, we've taken that into account in providing the range that we gave you. Speaker 400:37:04Okay, perfect. Thanks. And then, Grant, you made some in relation to the sulfur business, You talked a little bit about you're going to take some steps to get that kind of back to its normal kind of run rate cash flow. Can you talk a little bit about what those steps may be? Speaker 200:37:22It's basically we think that it was beyond our control what has happened to the number of our host Refineries, one of our locations, actually half of the crude oil Processing capacity and therefore sulfur handling requirement has been converted to Biofuels, so that's there's nothing we can do about that structural thing other than try to increase production from some of our other facilities. So We believe that the operating upsets that occurred by a number of our host refineries are behind them. We're seeing a return to normal operating rates here in the Q3 and hopefully accelerating into the To the 4th and based upon our daily discussions with the host refineries, because we want to be Consistent and ready to help them as they ramp up that we think that 'twenty four will be a Better production year from our other locations than we experienced in 'twenty 3. Okay. Well, thanks everybody for joining and we look forward to continuing a dialogue with each and every one of you. Speaker 200:38:59Thank you. Operator00:39:04All right, ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude your call. You may now disconnect your lines and thank you again for joining us today.Read morePowered by