Pactiv Evergreen Q4 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
January 24, 2024

There are 15 speakers on the call.

Operator

Hello, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Sallie Mae 2023 Q4 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer I would now like to hand the conference over to Melissa Brona. You may begin.

Operator

Thank you, Towanda.

Speaker 1

Good evening, and welcome to Seline May's 4th Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. It is my pleasure to be here today with John Witter, our CEO and Pete Graham, our CFO. After the prepared remarks, we will open the call for questions. Before we begin, keep in mind our discussion will contain predictions, expectations and forward looking statements. Actual results in the future may be materially different from those discussed here.

Operator

This could be due to

Speaker 1

a variety of factors. Listeners should refer to the discussion of those factors on the company's Form 10 Q and other filings with the SEC. For Sallie Mae, these factors include, among others, results of operations, financial conditions and or cash flows, as well as any impacts of the COVID-nineteen pandemic on our business. During this conference call, we will refer to non GAAP measures we call our core earnings. A description of core earnings, a full reconciliation to GAAP measures and our GAAP results can be found in the earnings supplement for the quarter ended December 31, 2023.

Speaker 1

This is posted along with the earnings press release and the earnings presentation on the Investors page at salliemay.com. Thank you. And now I'll turn the call over to John.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Melissa and Towanda. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining us today to discuss Sallie Mae's Q4 and full year 2023 results. I'm pleased to report on a successful year and discuss our outlook for 2024. I hope you'll take away 3 key messages today.

Speaker 2

First, we delivered strong results in 2023. 2nd, our credit performance is in line with the expectations we laid out in the beginning of the year and we anticipate that we will experience continued improvement in the coming year. And 3rd, we believe we have strong momentum entering 2024 and are well positioned to deliver on the investment thesis we introduced approximately a month ago. Let me begin with the discussion of 2023 results. GAAP diluted EPS in the 4th quarter was $0.72 compared to a loss of $0.33 a share in Q4 of 2022.

Speaker 2

Our full year GAAP diluted EPS was $2.41 compared to $1.76 in 2022. Without the non cash write down of the intangible asset associated with the Nitro trade name and trademark, which Pete will discuss in more detail, GAAP diluted EPS would have been $0.91 for Q4 $2.59 for the year, well within our guidance expectations for 2023. Private education loan originations for the 4th quarter of 'twenty three were $839,000,000 which is up 2% over Q4 of 2022. Consistent with guidance provided on our last earnings call, our full year originations ended at approximately $6,400,000,000 which is up 7% over 2022. Application volume also increased year over year by 10% and has been fueled by a 12% increase in underclass applications.

Speaker 2

This is especially important given the greater serialization potential and lifetime value of this group. In a year where students return to campus in record numbers post pandemic, we are pleased that we were able to maintain our 55% share of the private student loan lending market according to the most recent industry report. Credit quality of originations was consistent with past years. Our cosigner rate for the Q4 of 2023 was 84%, up slightly from 82% in the Q4 of 20 22. Our average FICO score for the Q4 of 2023 was 750, an increase over the Q4 of 2022 at 747.

Speaker 2

For the full year, our originations were 87% cosigned and had an average FICO score of 748, both improvements over full year 2022. We remain focused on credit and our path back to normalcy and are pleased that we have seen the expected improvement in performance this year. We ended the year with net charge offs as a percentage of average loans and repayment of 2.4% and at the lower end of our net charge off guidance for the year at 375,000,000 Having assessed the underwriting, programmatic and operational changes made to date and segmented the performance of our portfolio, We continue to believe that the right net charge off goal for our portfolio is the high ones to low 2% range. Understanding that we won't see a reversion to those rates immediately, we are happy with the progress made from 2022 to 2023 and expect continued progress from 2023 into 2024, of course assuming no changes to the broader economic environment. We did see a rise in delinquencies in the 4th quarter to 3.9%.

Speaker 2

We believe this is largely a mechanical result of borrowers enrolling in new programs who are in their qualifying period versus a broader worsening of performance. In fact, we are seeing early indicators of success of our new payment programs and in December observed the lowest roll to default rate in over 2 years. Turning to capital return. In the Q4 of 2023, we repurchased 6,000,000 shares at an average price of $15.43 We have reduced the shares outstanding since January 1, 2023 by 9% at an average price per share of $15.64 and by approximately 50% since January 1, 2020 at an average price of $15.93 Before I hand the call over to Pete, I'm pleased share that last week we agreed to indicative pricing terms for the sale of approximately $2,000,000,000 of private education loans. We expect the transaction to close in early February.

Speaker 2

With general market improvements in the consumer lending segment during the Q4 of 2023 As well as the improvements we saw in ABS spreads, we are encouraged by the price that we received which is in line with our expectations for the year. We expect to sell additional loans in 2024. Market conditions will dictate the timing of additional sales and volume will be driven by our balance sheet growth targets. We expect our balance sheet growth to be in line with or slightly above the strategy we shared at our Investor Forum just a month ago, roughly 2% to 3% balance sheet growth in 2024. Pete will now take you through some additional financial highlights of the quarter.

Speaker 2

Pete, over to you.

Speaker 3

Thanks, John. Good evening, everyone. Let's continue with a discussion of our loan loss allowance and provision. Our total provision for credit losses on our income statement was $16,000,000 in the 4th quarter. The provision build of $86,000,000 was driven almost entirely by volume increases and was offset by a $69,000,000 reduction associated with the $1,000,000,000 loan sale that closed in the 4th quarter.

Speaker 3

This 4th quarter provision represents a decrease of $182,000,000 and a $282,000,000 decrease from the year ago quarter. Net charge offs For our private education loan portfolio in the 4th quarter were $93,000,000 or 2.4 percent compared to $116,000,000 or 3.1 percent in the year ago quarter. Full year net charge offs were $375,000,000 or 2.4 percent and at the low end of our guidance for the year. These provisions and net charge offs in the 4th quarter reduced our private education loan reserve to $1,400,000,000 or 5.9% or total student loan exposure, which under CECL includes the on balance sheet portfolio plus the accrued interest receivable of $1,400,000,000 and unfunded loan commitments of $2,200,000,000 Our reserve rate continues to improve as compared to 6% in the Q3 of this year and 6.3% at the end of 2022. Private education loans delinquent 30 days or more, 3.9% loans and repayment, an increase over 3.7% at the end of the 3rd quarter as well as 3.8% at the end of the year ago quarter.

Speaker 3

We believe this uptick in delinquencies is primarily driven by the increase in enrollment and our new loss mitigation programs that John discussed earlier, rather than a negative credit indicator. Year after year, our quality loan portfolio generate significant net interest income. For the full year of 2023, we earned $1,600,000,000 of net interest income, higher than full year 2022. Net interest margin for 2023 was 5.5% compared to 5.3% in 2022. Going into 2024, we continue to expect our NIM to be in the low to mid 5% range.

Speaker 3

4th quarter operating expenses were $143,000,000 compared to $167,000,000 in the prior quarter, $138,000,000 in the year ago quarter. Operating expenses are down from the prior quarter, which was our peak lending season. Total non interest expenses in the 4th quarter were $202,000,000 compared to $170,000,000 in prior quarter and $140,000,000 in the year ago quarter. The increase to non interest expenses in the 4th quarter relates to the write down associated with the Nitro trade name and trademark. We continue to be very pleased with our acquisition of Nitro as it It's helped us build a more resilient marketing model and driven down our cost to acquire.

Speaker 3

Interestingly, as we've integrated Nitro, we've begun to test the of the programs and strategies. We've seen performance meaningfully better using the Sally and Sally Mae names and platforms. For example, in testing performance with one of our affiliate channels, the Sallie Mae brand performed 68% better than the Nitro brand measuring conversion rates. We believe that continuing to build on the Sally and Sallie Mae platforms will accelerate growth. With this decision to stop using the Nitro brand, we determined that the intangible asset associated with the Nitro trade name and trademark you will be written down to 0.

Speaker 3

As a reminder, this was an intangible asset established using a 10 year life that would have continued to incur amortization expense of approximately $7,000,000 per year until 2,031. The decision to write this asset down this year resulted in a non cash charge of $56,000,000 that impacted earnings per share for the quarter by $0.19 and for the year by $0.18 Absent this write down, non interest expenses would have been $146,000,000 in the 4th quarter and $629,000,000 for the full year within our guidance expectations. Finally, Our liquidity and capital positions are solid. We ended the quarter with liquidity of 21.4% of total assets. At the end of the 4th quarter, total risk based capital was 13.6% and common equity Tier 1 capital was 12.3%.

Speaker 3

Another measure of loss absorption capacity in the balance sheet is GAAP equity plus loan loss reserves over risk weighted assets, which was a very strong 15.8%. We believe we're well positioned to grow our business and return capital to shareholders going forward. Now I'll turn the call back to John.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Pete. 2023 was a year of incredible progress. We feel like we're on the right path to normalizing credit and are happy to finish 2023 credit performance consistent with our previous expectations. We experienced excellent originations growth in 2023 and expect considerable originations growth in 2024 and 2025 as one of our largest competitors exit the business. We were also able to return meaningful capital shareholders through the successful loan sale and share buyback arbitrage strategy and are already seeing positive momentum in this space for 2024.

Speaker 2

Just over a month ago, in our Investor Forum, we introduced an investment thesis built on 4 principles. 1st, strong and predictable balance sheet growth 2nd, strong EPS performance and return on common equity 3rd, meaningful capital return and 4th, all within manageable risk. As we embark on the next year, We expect to deliver on these principles. We believe that meaningful origination expansion coupled with loan sales to moderate growth And a steadfast focus on expense management will allow for both organic earnings growth and generous capital return to shareholders. It is in this context I'd like to provide our guidance for 2024.

Speaker 2

Specifically, we expect full year education loan origination growth of 7% to 8%, total loan portfolio net charge offs will be between $340,000,000 $370,000,000 or 2.2% to 2.4% of average loans in repayment. Non interest expenses for the full year of 2024 to be between $635,000,000 $655,000,000 and full year diluted non GAAP core earnings per share between $2.60 $2.70 In addition, today we are announcing a new share repurchase authority to buy up to $650,000,000 of common stock over the next 2 years. While dependent on share price, continued planned loan sales and other factors, we expect to repurchase roughly half in 2024 and the remainder in 2025. We expect to continue programmatically buying back our stock over the next few years and look for opportunities to buy more on days when market conditions are favorable. We continue to support our longer term capital return plans and our clear commitment to shareholder return.

Speaker 2

With that, Heath, let's go ahead and open up the call for some questions. Thank you.

Operator

Our first question comes from the line of Arren Cyganovich with Citi. Your line is open. First question comes from the line of Aaron. Your line is open.

Speaker 4

Hi, can you hear me?

Operator

Yes, we can hear you.

Speaker 4

We can

Speaker 2

hear you, Andrew.

Speaker 4

Got it. Thank you. Sorry about that. So it looks like you have Some modest market share increase assumed with one of your larger competitors exiting the market this year for next year. Are there any other kind of items of note that you have included in there in terms of like enrollment trends, etcetera for the 2024, 2025 academic year?

Speaker 2

Yes, Aaron, it's John. Let me take that. We build up our projections bottom up and top down. So we do a bottom up analysis where we're absolutely looking at sort of enrollment trends and the like and we do sort of a top down analysis, which is more of a share based approach and we triangulate those two things together and this year those numbers We're pretty close. So yes, we do have views around enrollment increases.

Speaker 2

Yes, we do have views around the effectiveness of our various Marketing programs, which we feel have been getting more effective each year over the last several years given both organic investments and the acquisitions we've done. And yes, we have assumptions in there around the potential for a competitor to be exiting the space. I do think the thing that's important and I'll just say it proactively, Any exit will likely impact the fall peak season more than it will impact the spring. And so you may remember from my comments, we believe Any market share gains driven by that will likely be spread over 2 years, not entirely resident, just within 2024.

Speaker 4

Yes, that makes sense. And then second question on the gain on sale. It looked like the 4Q is a bit lower than normal or what it has been recently. Was that because it was struck during the Q3 when rates were high? And I believe you said that you expect that to improve in the 1st quarter sale of the $2,000,000,000

Speaker 3

Yes. Aaron, this is Pete. That's right. The timing of when that deal was struck, that was sort of at peak grades. And we've seen obviously improvement in the rate environment as we moved into the year.

Speaker 3

And so again, as we said in the prepared remarks, it's largely in line with what our expectations for this year were.

Speaker 4

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Moshe Orenbuch with TD Cowen. Your line is open.

Speaker 5

Great. Thanks. Maybe, John, if you could talk a little bit about how you think about the capital deployment, $650,000,000 is a nice large number. And given the fact that you've already agreed to the 1st loan sale of the year. Can you talk about the pace of that capital deployment over the next 12 or 24 months?

Speaker 2

Yes. Moshe, happy to and Pete jump in if you want to add anything to that. I think if you look back historically, really given the low rate environment, Our philosophy has been one of deploying capital very, very quickly Because of the potential impact that that has on NIM. While we do not divulge specific plans or timing around capital I think you should assume that higher rates give us a bit more flexibility to be thoughtful, strategic and a bit more opportunistic about how we deploy that capital. And so I think you should expect, and I think we said this in our comments that we will take A more programmatic approach, we'll obviously look to be opportunistic at times where we think market conditions are favorable for buybacks.

Speaker 2

But I think we also want to make sure that we are being sort of consistent in our approach or reasonably inconsistent in our approach across that time

Speaker 5

Great. Thanks. And maybe just as a follow-up, I mean, one of the things that we talked about a little around the time of your call last month was kind of the dynamic elements of your plan. Could you talk a little bit about how you would think about If the market share gains and origination gains later in the year were better than you had, then you kind of included in your forecast. I mean, how do you think about what you kind of do with that difference?

Speaker 5

Is it something that you're more likely to increase the amount of loans sold or increase the amount staying on the balance sheet? Can you talk about just your thought process?

Speaker 2

Yes, I'm happy to. I think if you go back

Speaker 3

to our investment thesis, Moshe, number 1 on that

Speaker 2

is strong and predictable This is Moshe. Number 1 on that is strong and predictable balance sheet growth. And I think in my comments, we talked about likely balance growth this year in the 2% to 3% range. I think you should assume that that is going to be sort of the primary determinant How many how much loans that we sell versus how much we keep on the balance sheet, sort of plus or minus. And obviously, if we end up in a place where market conditions are extremely favorable to loan sales, we might sort of push that a little bit to the lower end.

Speaker 2

If we found a place where market conditions weren't as favorable, maybe we push it a little bit to the upper end. But I think our goal very much as we discussed in the Investor Forum is to have really measured predictable balance sheet growth, Couple that with really strong operating leverage to be sure that we're driving quite attractive EPS growth, but also returning during that time again capital to shareholders. So I think that's how we think about it. It is, again, I think really based on predictable balance growth as we say in the investment thesis.

Speaker 5

Great. Thanks so much.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Terry Ma with Barclays. Your line is open.

Speaker 6

Thanks. Good afternoon. Can you maybe just comment on the credit outlook for this year? It seems like the high end of the range implies Not much improvement compared to 2023. So maybe just talk about what gets us or gets you to the high end versus the low end?

Speaker 6

And then longer term, How should we think about the time frame for getting back within your target underwriting levels?

Speaker 2

Yes, happy to. I think we've tried to give a range, obviously, recognizing it's sort of early in the year and We continue to be, I think, in a little bit of a volatile sort of economic environment. And I think, of course, want to be sensitive to that. What we have effectively done in building up that forecast is a pretty deep look At sort of the programs, the new programs we've developed, the use of those programs, the uptake of those programs, sort of the effectiveness we've seen, guys and some of those are in early days. We have looked at the credit and underwriting changes that we've made and Sort of the differential performance between loans that we continue to underwrite versus those we don't.

Speaker 2

We've looked at things like the Standard aging and vintaging of our portfolio understanding that different loans behave differently over time. And we've looked down into details of those portfolios have things like balances and fixed rate versus variable rate again, knowing that the performance of some of those things is a little bit different. And I think at the end of the day, that's sort of how we arose kind of came to the view. I think the thing that would take us to the lower end is if we felt like the programs that we had put in place were slightly sort of better and more effective than we've seen in the early days. And I think the things that would take us to the upper end would be Sort of the opposite of that.

Speaker 2

But I think what you ought to take away is we are and continue to be very confident in sort of year over year improvement in credit, I think that detailed analysis I described makes us more comfortable as I said in my talking points at the high ones to low-2s is really the right place for us to be. And I think you should expect and we believe That we'll see continued performance improvement in 2025, of course, assuming no broader macroeconomic changes, I have to say that. Whether we get all the way back to a normalized level or 25 or just close, I think it's a little bit too far out to make that call. But I think we are confident in continued and meaningful improvement.

Speaker 6

Got it. And then longer term for your market share, how should we think about how that evolves over the next few years as the

Speaker 2

Yes. I think we would, assuming all of those plans that move forward as The media has suggested, I think we would expect that there will be a jump ball market share for us to compete for much like there was when Wells made the decision to leave the marketplace several years ago. We will compete for that in exactly the same way that we compete for any other business. We'll decide which of that business we like versus not based on credit characteristics, pricing characteristics, all sort of resulting in the expected ROE of those loans. My guess is we will end up competing for and trying to compete for a good piece of it.

Speaker 2

But I don't know that we'll necessarily compete for all of it. It's too early to sort of tell. But I think our hope is that this does represent a near term sort of Multi year, but one time opportunity to increase share and we're excited to compete for that in what is and I think continues to be a nicely competitive marketplace where we expect other competitors to show up and very much compete with equal zeal as we're competing. Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Sanjay with KBW. Your line is open.

Speaker 7

Thanks. I guess a question for Pete. Could you just talk about the 2024 assumptions on level of loan sales, like the gain on sale margins And maybe what you're assuming in terms of share repurchases in the guide?

Speaker 3

Yes, We kind of laid that out at the Investor Forum. In large part, our guidance is pretty similar to that. And in terms of sizing of the overall program this year, again, we're targeting that sort of 2% to 3% balance sheet growth. And that will determine the ultimate sort of overall level. The $2,000,000,000 that we've agreed indicative terms on is a good start to that program for the year.

Speaker 3

And we'll begin to utilize the capital generated by that for, as John said, a programmatic approach to the share repurchase. And then when we do a second installment of loan sales at some point later in the year, We'll build on that as we go.

Speaker 7

And then like that $2,000,000,000 that's been sold already, that's consistent in the range that you guys articulated at the investor forum, sort of like mid singles, a little bit higher than that?

Speaker 3

Correct.

Speaker 7

Okay. And maybe just on rates, interest rates, could you just remind us sort of how As rates come down, that affects the P and L and sort of what's been done around rates and what you've assumed in the guidance? Thanks.

Speaker 3

Yes, sure. So over the course of the last Couple of years, we've had a little bit of a tailwind on our NIM because In the rising rate environment, our loans tend to reprice faster than our liabilities reprice. And that's why we kind of peaked at where we did in 'twenty three. Our expectation is that, that will start to moderate, which is why Our guidance for this year around NIM is lower than where we were last year. And we're not necessarily taking a position on rates.

Speaker 3

We're just acknowledging that we do have some timing disconnects in terms of pricing and a bias over the course of this year for incrementally lower cost of funding as our liabilities reprice.

Speaker 7

How many rate cuts have you factored in here? We

Speaker 3

base our assumptions on kind of forward curve. So I think The market assumption there is probably 5 rate cuts.

Speaker 7

Okay. So there's a punitive impact of 5 rate cuts in the NIM right now. To the extent that doesn't happen, that should help all else equal?

Speaker 3

Yes, perhaps. I mean, again, it's anytime you're Forecasting future interest rate, there's always going to be some level of variability that's unknowable until it actually happens. Tend to run a fairly balanced book. So any moves should be kind of gradual and likely within the guidance range that we've articulated.

Speaker 7

Okay, great. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Michael Kaye with Wells Fargo. Your line is open.

Speaker 8

I was hoping you could dig a little bit more into those new borrower assistance programs that you rolled out and you alluded to. I know it's early days, But

Speaker 3

could you just give us some

Speaker 8

of the early signs of how that's performing? And secondly, could you talk about how That enhanced recovery strategy which you recently implemented, how is that going? Is it going according to plan?

Speaker 2

Yes, Michael, it's John. Happy to. In terms of the specifics, there's a few different flavors of programs we've developed. And as quick context, you will remember with the credit administration changes we made several years ago, we moved from having a very effective sort of a very general forbearance program to a strategy where we had more programs, but much more tailored, much more focused on specific customer needs. That had the advantage of being aligned and we've I think sets at the time with OCC guidance.

Speaker 2

It also allows us again to be really efficient and effective in the design of those programs and really test for their effectiveness over time recognizing that they're all still pretty new. So to give you a sense of that, we've developed a newer early to repayment assistance program. This is specifically designed to help folks who are literally just coming out of school and starting to take on their financial obligations, we've developed a term extension and loan modification program That allows us to tailor and offer slightly more combinations of rate and tenure modification. Again, really to the idea of sort of specifically tailoring the sort of mod to the unique needs or circumstances of that borrower. And we haven't done it yet, but we are looking at establishing a more permanent loan modification program for borrowers who were really experiencing longer term hardship and or sort of a permanent reduction in their income.

Speaker 2

And so hopefully that gives you a little bit of a sense of the kinds of programs. But again, I would put it in the context of Very tailored and specific and focused programs as a replacement or a substitute for the more general and flexible program that we had before. I think we like the results we're seeing so far, Michael, to answer that part of the question. I think we are seeing 1st and foremost, our agents being able to communicate the benefit of these programs to our customers. I think the programs that we've developed are largely matching what customers need.

Speaker 2

We see that because we can see Sort of the improved uptake of those programs when we offer it and we can literally go back and listen to those calls monitor all of that very, very closely. It is too early to be able to start to do what we will eventually do, which is Sort of longer term loss curves of those programs and whether or not they are generating Meaningfully better outcomes or not, that will certainly be a part of the fine tuning that we will do over The quarter is ahead, but obviously the programs have to run their term and then we have to observe behavior and success of customers going forward. I think it is really important to note, our goal here is to work as productively as we can with all of our borrowers who have fallen On hard times, we recognize that there is a human behind every one of those customers who is struggling with their loans and We want to be as helpful as we can and we think that this targeted approach is really a great step in that direction.

Speaker 8

And the part about that enhanced recovery strategy, I know you've made some changes. How is that going?

Speaker 2

Yes. It has continued to perform along our expectations. There is no update there and we continue to believe that that is the right program and have confidence in that decision.

Speaker 8

Great. And my second follow-up question is, is there any early signs of increased from new and existing players with one of your competitors looking to exit. For example, I saw word that Carlisle Group purchased $415,000,000 of private student loans and made a strategic investment in a company called Monogram?

Speaker 2

Yes, Michael, I think it's sort of too early and not season to really see the change in competitive intensity. You have to remember, number 1, Lots of the spring disbursements happen in the very end of 2023 or the beginning of 2024, but they were really set up By the great work that we and our competitors do during the fall peak season. By the way, if you look at the announcement of the competitor in question, Yes. They were very clear to articulate that they were going to stop originations on February 1, which We imagine is a nod to that dynamic. They obviously want to see the business that they've already committed through to a natural conclusion.

Speaker 2

I think we'll really start to sort of understand the change in competitive dynamics as we move into peak season this summer. As it relates to the monogram investment by Carlyle, I'm not sure I read a lot into that. I think there's been certainly interest by private equity players in all manner of asset generators for a while now, that's a very clear part of their strategy. What I take away from it is, it is a sign that Another really smart and savvy investor, Carlyle, sees the incredible value in this asset class. And I think we view that as net net a positive.

Speaker 5

Okay, thanks.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of John Hecht with Jefferies. Your line is open.

Speaker 9

Afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. I guess going back to Sanjay's inquiry about NIM, maybe Just talking about the asset side, I mean, you do have a mix of some adjustable rate mortgages or excuse me, student loans. Can you tell us kind of the cadence of how the assets move specifically with interest rates?

Speaker 3

Yes. I would say in large part, they're sulfur based and they're repricing on a monthly cadence, whereas the as I said earlier on the funding side, it tends to be more quarterly resets.

Speaker 9

And how much of the assets reprice monthly against sulfur?

Speaker 3

The bulk of our floating rate or variable rate loans would be silver based.

Speaker 9

Okay. And then maybe the second question I have is the provision against unfunded commitments. I think we're familiar with CECL and how you would provision against a new loan, but maybe can you refresh us about how you provision against unfunded commitments because I think The ratio fluctuated this year versus last year in the same period.

Speaker 3

Yes. I think in general terms, We're taking a reserve rate and we're applying it to that commitment. And so we've again Under CECL, we've got a fully provision for our life of loan expectation for loss. And we do that in a programmatic manner for the new commitments. And then as those fund we transfer balances out and into the overall provision.

Speaker 3

But when we give Statistics around our overall rates, we're combining those together. So the rates I was quoting in my prepared remarks included kind of a combined view of provision on the loans on balance sheet as well as the piece related to unfunded commitments.

Speaker 9

And do unfunded commitments kind of as a percentage of seasonal originations, are they fairly typical or consistent or is there some fluctuations in that part of the equation?

Speaker 3

Again, it's going to be largely dependent on the kind of the serialization. And so We make those commitments largely in the peak season. We'll fund the 1st tranche of that as the students are entering the fall semester. And then The other piece will remain as an unfunded commitment until the spring disbursements. Again, that's again a generalization based on assume 2 semesters and Most university experiences, we have other programs for different types of schools that might fund slightly differently than that.

Speaker 2

Okay. Thanks very much.

Operator

Thank you. Please standby for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Mark DeVries with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open. Mark, check to see if you're on mute.

Operator

Mark, check to see if your line is on mute. Our next question comes from the line of Jeff Petersen with Morgan Stanley.

Speaker 10

Hi, yes, good evening. Thanks for taking my questions. So just to circle back on this exit from one of your large competitors, understood the potential benefits here to originations, But just also want to understand any of the other potential benefits that could flow through here. Are you contemplating any sort of benefit to your credit as a result of that or could that be upside? And as we think about the loan sale of that portfolio, is there Anything to be thinking about in terms of demand or supply of loan sales in the market impacting your loan sales going forward?

Speaker 2

Yes. Jeff, we have thought through it. And obviously, we have General industry knowledge and hypotheses about the nature of different competitors and where they Sort of favor or disfavor within their buy box and underwriting grades. And I think we can make some educated guesses on that. But at the end of the day, we don't have the level of insight that I think would allow us to make perfect assessments around sort of the impact that that would have on our credit.

Speaker 2

I think the general comment I would make is, I think we will continue to stay very true to our credit discipline. We will continue to stay very true to our ROE sort of framework around how we think about the profitability of a loan. But I think it will sort of take a little bit of time to see how that plays through directly, which is why I think we've given a range around our origination guidance for the year because it could obviously turn out in slightly more favorable ways or slightly less favorable ways, but I think all of the outcomes are still favorable ones. Remind me the second part of your question, Jeff?

Speaker 11

Yes, just as we think about

Speaker 10

your loan sales with another $10,000,000,000 of sales coming into the market, just Any sort of impact you'd be thinking about there or considerations?

Speaker 3

Yes. Look, the demand for Various asset classes, including our asset classes, is pretty deep. And our Discussions with various parties in the market, we don't feel like that's going to impact demand for our loans or for that matter for asset backed funding in general as we move into this year.

Speaker 2

Yes. And in fact, Jeff, I would add, I think Anecdotally, we heard when the last major competitor left the space, that it actually may have been a net positive for demand for loans because it was a large transaction. It encouraged lots of people to get Smart on the space. It encouraged lots of people to allocate resources to the space. And obviously, there can only be one winner of that.

Speaker 2

So I think we view it as at worst a neutral probably a slight positive. But Again, we feel like the market for the asset class is deep. We feel like it's matured significantly over the last half decade and we think there will be lots of positives that come from this.

Speaker 10

Okay, great. And just on the $650,000,000 repurchase authorization, I know you talked about doing half this year, half next year. Does that also contemplate the plan you laid out at the investor form in kind of the base case for loan sales or is that more of a conservative outlook on your part? Because it does look like half half is a little bit below what you did this past year?

Speaker 3

Yes. I mean, it's roughly in line. We didn't say exactly half. We said approximately half. And as I said in my remarks on a prior question, the pace and amount of that will be governed by The loan sales that we do this year, we're off to a good start with the $2,000,000,000 that will close this quarter and The timing and amounts will be dictated by when we do additional loan sales as we

Speaker 10

Okay. And just one last one for me. On federal loan student loan payments, Anything you can update us on what you're seeing from your borrowers that are making those payments? I think there are still some puts and takes to come here with The full benefit of the new income driven plan kicking in July, but then you have this on ramp expiring later in the year. Just Maybe give us a quick update on what you're seeing, what you're expecting there.

Speaker 2

Yes, Jeff, happy We track as best we can sort of the performance of our customers who have federal student loans and those who don't. We don't know as perfectly who has enrolled in which income driven repayment program or sort of other programs, but we have a pretty good sense of it. As of the last month, I saw data for which was pretty recently, We have not yet seen any material divergence in performance between those with or without federal loans. And so we continue to watch it closely. We recognize that the on ramp is A powerful tool for customers.

Speaker 2

We understand that the income driven repayment plans are a powerful tool for federal customers. But as of yet, we've not seen anything that would strike us as a material divergence.

Speaker 10

Perfect. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Vincent Caintic with Stephens. Your line is open.

Speaker 12

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. First one, wanted to get your industry thoughts On the student loan refinancing market, on the expectation of 5 rate cuts, What that would do? And then for Sally Mae specifically, how you're thinking about maybe any consolidation pressure or your thoughts on the balance sheet growth? Thank you.

Speaker 3

Yes, I'll take first crack and John you can add on if I miss any of the high points. Obviously, the consolidation market is really a rate driven exercise. And so as rates are going down, we do expect return in some respect of the consolidation players, But I think the wildcard in it for us is what impact the new programs in the federal space have on sort of deterring folks from consolidating their loans, because generally That's going to be a big factor in terms of whether someone wants to give up the potential benefits that they might be able to get in the federal programs in order to get an overall lower rate. So it's something we've got our eye on. Certainly, we have expectations in our outlook for what consolidations will be and that's considered within our guidance.

Speaker 3

But Yes. I think that's one that's going to have to play out a little bit.

Speaker 2

Yes. And Vincent, I think the only thing that I would add And let me preface this the way I always do when I get questions on consolidations. This is obviously not our core business. I'm sure there's people out there who have deeper side into sort of the economics of the refi game than we do. But I think if you look at even the sort of rate cuts that are being assumed, That doesn't take us anywhere back to the kind of uber low rate environment that I think we've been living in for the last 20 years.

Speaker 2

And you asked me for my opinion. I will give you my opinion. I don't think we're going to see that kind of uber low rate environment ever again. And so I think you have to realize there's an awful lot of recent college grads and there's an awful lot of quite frankly even current college seniors, juniors and sophomores who made loans under a much lower interest rate environment than what we've seen over the course of the last 18 months. So I think when you think about the sort of refi economics, I think you have to look at it through the lens of When did different borrowers make loans?

Speaker 2

What is the prevailing interest rate when they made those loans? And what are the rates today? We have done and will continue to do manners of those analyses. I agree with what Pete said. There will be some time in the future where consolidations come back and are larger than they are today.

Speaker 2

But I think we saw a golden age of loan consolidations given the super low rate environment. I think we'll all have to see if we ever see that kind of golden age again.

Speaker 12

Okay. And second question just on the forbearance programs and actually how we should think about the numbers. So I guess as these modification programs rollout, should we be expecting that, I guess, the forbearance number will stay will increase from this level. And I'm just wondering how that plays out because usually if we see forbearance, we might be concerned. But if It's from these new programs that are driving some more success.

Speaker 12

Just want to anticipate that in advance. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Yes, Vincent, it's a wonderful simple answer question, deserving a simple answer. I'm going to make it slightly more complicated. The answer is for most customers using what we call hardship forbearance today, which is still allowable under sort of OCC guidance and our program is absolutely geared to that. It is short in duration and highly limited in use. It's really no longer a substitute as We've used it today or have used it for the last few years for the kind of more tailored and systematic programs that both Pete and I described earlier.

Speaker 2

There are some of our programs for which forbearance is a part of the recipe. But I think our plan is to sort of break those out separately in our reporting so that you can see those. But I would not necessarily expect that there would be huge changes in forbearance because I think We've largely operated under the new system for the last two years. And I think at the end of the day, it's serving a fundamentally different purpose than other programs at this point in time.

Speaker 12

Okay. It's very helpful. Thanks very much.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Mark DeVries with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.

Speaker 11

Hi, can you hear me now?

Speaker 2

Yes. Yes.

Speaker 11

Hello. Okay, great. Thank you. Sorry about that. I had a couple of follow-up questions on credit.

Speaker 11

Just wanted to clarify some of the comments made. John, I thought I heard you indicate that of the reason for the rise in delinquencies is related to some of the enrollment and some of these borrower assistance programs. Did I hear that correctly? And if so, What's kind of the dynamic there? Are you moving them into a status that has to be treated as delinquent?

Speaker 3

Is there something else affecting that?

Speaker 2

Yes. So It's really a fairly mechanical answer. When someone enters one of our payment programs. Before we can re age them to current, Guidelines and standards say they have to make, I think it's typically 3 qualifying payments. And so in a past world, we may have collected on that customer.

Speaker 2

In a past world, they may have gone through to Default in a past world, several years ago, they may have used forbearance and been brought current more quickly. Here we have to see that period of positive pay before we can re age that. And so as we parse apart The delinquency data and we look at what portion of it is driven by what I would call normal sort of delinquent situations versus which are caused by this phenomena of customers making payments, but waiting to re age. That's what we believe has driven sort of the small increase that we talked about.

Speaker 11

Okay, got it. That's helpful. And it sounds like you're still pretty confident about year over year improvement and the charge offs this year included, whether charge off comes in at the low end or the high end of that guidance range, should we expect charge offs to be kind of higher in the first half of the year and then start trending down in the back half of twenty twenty four?

Speaker 2

Yes. There is a seasonality to our charge offs, which I think always occurs, because And I think we've talked about this on past calls. The most likely time, unfortunately, when a borrower gets into financial distress is pretty soon after they've entered repayment. These are young borrowers. They may not have sort of built up any savings at that point.

Speaker 2

They may be experiencing disruptions moving into the labor force. They may just not have Yes, the same financial habits that they would have later in life. And so we always see a period of seasonality in our results. I think you should expect that same pattern of seasonality to persist in 2024.

Speaker 13

Okay, understood. Thank you.

Speaker 2

You're welcome. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Rick Shane with JPMorgan. Your line is open.

Speaker 14

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. Look, historically, this has been an industry that was concentrated amongst 3 originators, 2 have essentially exited the business. There's been some conversation about new entrants, but at the end of the day, what is the binding constraint in terms of your market share?

Speaker 2

Rick, I think

Speaker 14

Other than 100%.

Speaker 2

Look, we absolutely continue to face, I think, Lots of good competition in this business, Rick. And again, I'm not sure I want to go much deeper in predicting What's going to happen with the latest set of news, we'll see that play out over the next couple of months. But there are Very formidable, smaller, private and other players that we compete against. And at the end of the day, I think what Sort of binds our market share potential is a little bit of competition. It's a little bit of customer choice.

Speaker 2

It's a little bit of different marketing strategies and focusing on different parts of the credit spectrum. At the end of the day, we love our 55% market share. We think there's opportunity for it to go up a little bit. It's obviously grown nicely over the last 3 years. But I don't think anyone should expect that We will be 70%, 80% market share player.

Speaker 2

I think there will always be good competition in the market And quite frankly, we welcome that. I think it makes us better when we've got great competition out there. I think it's better for the customers. So I would expect there to be that limit probably driven by a number of different factors and forces.

Speaker 14

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. Look, Moshe asked a question sort of trying to dimensionalize growth, asset growth prospects and we're in this unique window right now where There is a lot of market share up for grabs.

Speaker 14

Gain on sale has improved. And so potentially the economics are Shifting or clearly are shifting to be more favorable than they were at the end of last year or the end of 2023. When you think about what the priority will be. Imagine a scenario where volumes market share is better than you're looking for, gain on sale is solid. That gives you the ability to hit the high end of your earnings guidance, but it also potentially gives you the ability to form enough capital to grow beyond your 2% to 3% range.

Speaker 14

Conversely, there are going to be times where it's not going in your favor. Is the priority going to be to solve for earnings and let the growth of assets be the swing factor or is it going to be targeting the asset growth and letting earnings fluctuate?

Speaker 3

I think we're pretty clear in the December investor form that we're going to step into growth Over time, we're going to be relatively flat this year, our final sort of CECL transition year and then we will grow modestly in subsequent years. And so that framework calls for us to use loan sales as a governor of that balance sheet growth, that's fully what we intend to do as we embark on this strategy. So in your scenario of Higher originations growth, then at the margins, we might do more loan sales as long as the pricing Dynamic makes sense from an economic perspective.

Speaker 14

Got it. So your priority is to follow that asset growth profile that you laid out in that 5 year case as closely as possible not regardless of conditions, but within a reasonable set of expectations?

Speaker 3

Yes. I think we said there that to the extent we start to see Multiple expansions and getting rewarded for balance sheet growth, we'll do a little bit more of that. But if things stay kind of status quo, then we'll do marginally more loan sales As long as the trade is there, it's a dynamic evaluation of the value we're getting in the loan sale market versus the implied valuation for our balance sheet that we're getting in the equity market.

Speaker 14

Great. I know it's funny answering questions, what's going to happen in the next 12 months. It's even harder over the next 5 years. So thank you for answering that.

Speaker 3

Sure.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Giuliano Bologna with Compass Point. Your line is open.

Speaker 13

Good evening. I had a question that might be a little bit of a follow-up on the topic Vincent was kind of touching on, but from a different angle. One thing that I'm curious about is you've pivoted your kind of mix of originations towards fixed rate, which obviously has benefits as rates move down because it will make you more liability sensitive. But I'm curious at what point do you think about pivoting that strategy because Originating more fixed rate loans at peak rates could also make them much more susceptible to consolidations in the future. I'm kind of curious at what point do you think about pivoting or moving back towards a higher mix of fixed rate originations?

Speaker 3

Yes. I mean, the pricing dynamic is always something that we have control of at the margins. But I think There's also a human emotional element in terms of what selections the borrowers are making. And I think the emotional reaction to the dramatic increase in rates over the last year, If you think about during the fall, there was more potential for further increases because inflation had not started to subside yet. So I think that overall customer choice has been a Pretty dramatic impact on the mix of origination.

Speaker 3

I think that naturally will subside as we go into this year, but we'll be looking at that mix in terms of how we set our pricing grids as we go into peak this year.

Speaker 2

Yes. Pete, I think the only thing I would add is We clearly don't have the ability to set those pricing grids in isolation. We do that sort of through the lens of our economic models, but we also do that through the lens of competitive realities. And so the fact is if Fixed rate is what customers want and if competitors are pricing fixed rate at a level that makes that attractive, There is a certain competitive dynamic that I think Pete said it well, our ability to influence that is on the margin, but it is much it is part of the broader competitive set.

Speaker 13

That's very helpful. And then one quick one, just thinking about The potential for market share gains. I'd be curious when you think about the kind of depth of the market for loan sales, if you're able to capture some more additional market share, The numbers based on the midpoint of the 7% to 8% growth is already, call it, dollars 200,000,000 or so above The Investor Forum number 24.

Speaker 3

Sorry, Julien, you're fading in and out. Maybe if you could get closer to your mic.

Speaker 13

Sorry about that. Hopefully, it's a little bit better now. As you potentially gain market share, I'm curious when you think about the depth of the loan sales market. Do you think there's any limitation to the amount of loans you could sell in any given calendar year at this point? Or could the could mortgage be absorbed by loan sales?

Speaker 3

Yes. I think the dynamic that we've seen over the last Half decade is a pretty dramatic search for yielding assets to support Pension liabilities, insurance liabilities and the mutual fund complexes. So I think there's a strong demand for student loans. I think we have a preeminent ABS platform in this space. And I don't see any issue in both loan sales or ABS funding to phone balance sheet growth as we sit here now.

Speaker 3

It's not infinite, but we don't need infinite demand for the asset class.

Speaker 13

That's great. Thank you very much. And I'll jump back in the queue.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm showing no further questions. I would now like to turn the call back over to John Witter, CEO for closing remarks.

Speaker 2

Great. Thank you. And appreciate everyone dialing in tonight. Appreciate the interest in Sallie Mae. As always, Our IR team is standing by and happy to help follow-up on specific questions that folks may have and look forward to talking all again in about 3 months' time about our performance in the Q1.

Speaker 2

With that, Melissa, I'll turn it back to you for I think a little bit of closing business.

Speaker 1

Thank you for your time and questions today. A replay of this call and the presentation will be available on the Investors page at salliemay.com. If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me directly. This concludes today's call.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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Pactiv Evergreen Q4 2023
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