Beyond Q3 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
October 30, 2024

There are 9 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Mi Homes Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all lines are in listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. This call is being recorded on Tuesday, October 30, 2024. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr.

Operator

Phil Creek. Please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Joining me on the call today is Bob Schottenstein, our CEO and President and Derek Klutch, President of our Mortgage Company. First to address regulation for our disclosure, we encourage you to ask any questions regarding issues that you consider materializing this call because we are prohibited from discussing significant non public items with you directly. And as to forward looking statements, I want to remind everyone that the cautionary language about forward looking statements contained in today's press release also applies to any comments made during this call. Also be advised that the company undertakes no obligation to update any forward looking statements made during this call.

Speaker 1

With that, I'll turn the call over to Bob. Thanks, Phil. Good morning and thank you for joining us today.

Speaker 2

We had a very strong Q3 highlighted by record homes delivered, record revenue and record income. We are particularly pleased with our results given the various macroeconomic headwinds and other challenges our industry faced during the Q3. Variety of outside factors impacted traffic and demand and led to generally choppy selling conditions throughout the quarter. We saw a lot of movement in interest rates, initially trending down in anticipation of the Fed's 50 basis point rate cut and then for some somewhat unexpectedly going up with mortgage rates hovering in the mid-six percent range before rising to just above 7%. And with Florida representing about 20% of our overall business, we were clearly impacted in the latter part of the quarter in our 4 Florida markets by both Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton.

Speaker 2

Fortunately for us, our homes held up very well, very little to no damage in any of our communities or certainly nothing significant, but clearly an impact on our operations, the ability to open our sales offices and the impact it had on traffic and demand during the latter part of the quarter. And then finally, the upcoming presidential election has also had some impact on consumer behavior. We all look forward to that being behind us. Despite all of this, our results stand strong as we executed at a very high level throughout the quarter. We closed a record 2,271 homes in the quarter, which is 8% better than a year ago.

Speaker 2

Year to date, we have closed 6,653 homes, a 9% increase over 2023. 3rd quarter revenue reached a record $1,100,000,000 9% better than last year and year to date our revenues equal roughly $3,300,000,000 an 8% increase over 2023. We sold 2023 homes during the quarter, slightly better than last year's Q3 of 2021 homes sold. Year to date, we have sold 6,825 homes, 7% better than 2023. Quality of our buyers continues to be very good with average credit scores of around 750 and average down payments slightly above 18%, equaling about a $90,000 down payment per buyer on average.

Speaker 2

We are really pleased with our income and returns. Pretax income for the quarter increased 6% to a record $188,700,000 Year to date, our pretax income equals $563,000,000 20 percent higher than 2023. Gross margins for the quarter were a 3rd quarter record of 27.1%, twenty basis points better than last year. And our pre tax income percentage for the quarter was a very solid 16.5%. Our strong results generated a 20% return on equity with our book value per share now at a record $105 up 20% from a year ago.

Speaker 2

We continue to promote sales in a very targeted and strategic way using mortgage rate buy downs. About 1 third of our buyers during the quarter used our rate buy down program. And about half of our buyers during the quarter purchased our most affordable line of homes, which we call our Smart Series, with the balance of our buyers, about 50%, purchasing our more expensive move up product. We feel very good about the breadth of our product offering and product mix across our 17 markets. As we enter the Q4, we remain on track to open a number of new communities, and we are very excited about the many new communities we will be opening in 2025.

Speaker 2

Our average community count for 2024 will be about 5% higher than 2023, and we expect to further grow our community count in 2025. Our division income contributions in the Q3 were led by Dallas, Columbus, Tampa, Orlando, Chicago and Raleigh. New contracts for the Q3 in our Northern region increased by 1%. New contracts in the Southern region were flat comparatively to prior year's Q3. Our deliveries in the southern region decreased by 7% from a year ago, while our deliveries in the northern region increased by 37% from last year.

Speaker 2

55% of our deliveries came out of the southern region and the balance of 45% came out of the Northern region. Our owned and controlled lot position in the Southern region increased by 20% compared to a year ago and increased by 11% in the Northern region compared to last year. 33% of our owned and controlled lots are in the Northern region, the other 67% in the Southern region. We have an exceptional land position, very strong. Companywide, we own approximately 24,000 lots, which is about a 2.7 year supply.

Speaker 2

In addition, we control an additional 52,000 lots. With respect to our balance sheet, we ended the 3rd quarter with an all time record $2,800,000,000 of equity, a cash balance of $720,000,000 and 0 borrowings under our $650,000,000 unsecured revolving credit facility. This resulted in a debt to capital ratio of 20%, down from 22% a year ago and a net debt to capital ratio of negative 1%. As I conclude, let me just state that our balance sheet is in excellent shape and that we are in the best financial condition in our history. We feel really good about our business and our prospects for continued growth and success as we look to 2025 and beyond.

Speaker 2

Mi Homes is very well positioned to have another year of strong results in 2024. With that, I'll turn it over to Phil.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Bob. As far as financial results, our new contracts were flat with last year. They were down 5% in July, up 2% in August and up 3% in September and our cancellation rate for the quarter was 10%. 50% of our 3rd quarter sales were to first time buyers and 60% were inventory homes. Our community count was 217 at the end of the quarter compared to 204 a year ago.

Speaker 1

The breakdown by region is 88 in the northern region and 129 in the southern region. During the quarter, we opened 19 new communities while closing 13 and we currently estimate that our average 2024 community count will be about 5% higher than last year. We delivered 2,271 homes in the 3rd quarter delivering 66% of our backlog. And at September 30, we had 5,100 homes in the field versus 4,600 homes in the field a year ago, up 9%. Revenue increased 9% in the 3rd quarter and our average closing price for the 3rd quarter was $489,000 a 2% increase compared to last year's Q3 average closing price of 4.81 dollars Our 3rd quarter gross margin was a 3rd quarter record 27.1 percent, up 20 basis points year to year.

Speaker 1

Compared to this year's Q2, our construction costs were flat and our cycle time improved slightly. Our 3rd quarter SG and A expenses were $11,200,000 of revenue compared to $10,500,000 a year ago. Our increased costs were due to our increased community count, additional headcount and higher selling expenses. And our interest income, net of interest expense for the quarter was $6,700,000 Our interest incurred was 8,800,000 dollars We are very pleased with our returns for the quarter. Our pre tax income was 17% and our return on equity was 20%.

Speaker 1

During the quarter, we generated $198,000,000 of EBITDA compared to 185,000,000 in last year's Q3. And our effective tax rate was 23% in the 3rd quarter, the same as last year's Q3. Our earnings per diluted share for the quarter increased to a 3rd quarter record $5.10 per share from $4.82 per share last year, up 6% and our book value per share is now $105 a $17 per share increase from a year ago. Now Derek Klutch will address our mortgage company results.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Phil. Our mortgage and title operations achieved pre tax income of $12,900,000 an increase of 31% from $9,900,000 in 2023's Q3. Revenue increased 27% from last year to a 3rd quarter record of $30,000,000 due to higher margins on loans sold, an increase in loans originated and a higher average loan amount. The average loan to value on our first mortgages for the 3rd quarter was 82%, same as last year. We continue to see an increase in the use of government financing as 66% of the loans closed in the quarter were conventional and 34% FHA or VA, compared to 72% and 28% respectively for 2023's Q3.

Speaker 3

Our average mortgage amount increased to $403,000 in 20 24's Q3 compared to $394,000 last year. Loans originated increased to 16.95 loans, which was up 15% from last year, while the volume of loans sold increased by 20%. Our borrower profile remains solid with an average down payment of over 18% and an average credit score of 750 compared to 748 in 2023's Q3. Finally, our mortgage operation captured 89% of our business in the 3rd quarter and this was up from 86% last year. Now I'll turn the call back over to Phil.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Derek. As for the balance sheet, we ended the Q3 with a cash balance of $720,000,000 and no borrowings under our unsecured revolving credit facility. We have one of the lowest debt levels of the public homebuilders and are well positioned with our maturities. Our bank line matures in late 2026 and our public debt matures in 20282030 and has interest rates below 5%. Our unsold land investment at quarter end is $1,600,000,000 compared to $1,300,000,000 a year ago and at quarter end we had $813,000,000 of raw land at land under development and $745,000,000 of finished unsold lots.

Speaker 1

During 20 24's Q3, we spent $139,000,000 on land purchases and $181,000,000 on land development for a total of $319,000,000 dollars And at quarter end, we owned 24,000 lots and controlled 52,000 lots. At the end of the quarter, we had 555 completed inventory homes and 2,375 total inventory homes. And of the total inventory, 890 are in the northern region and 1485 are in the southern region. At ninethirtytwenty 3, we had 4 14 completed inventory homes and 2021 total inventory homes. We spent $50,000,000 in the 3rd quarter repurchasing our stock and have $157,000,000 remaining under our current board authorization.

Speaker 1

Since the start of 2022, we have repurchased 13% of our outstanding shares. This completes our presentation. We'll now open the call for any questions or comments.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Your first question comes from Alan Ratner with Zelman. Your line is now open.

Speaker 4

Hey guys, good morning. Nice quarter. Congrats on the strong results.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Alan.

Speaker 4

Bob, I'd love to just pick your brain a little bit on what you're seeing across price points in your footprint. I know so much of your growth over the last few years has come via the Smart Series and the entry level and the strong demand there. It seems like the commentary from other builders recently has been that the choppiness we've seen of late is maybe more so at the entry level given kind of the volatility in rates, affordability constraints, etcetera. And I know you guys are diversified across multiple price points. So I'm just curious if you're seeing notable differences there and whether as you think about the upcoming spring selling season, if you're thinking about positioning your company towards growth and outsized growth in one price point versus another?

Speaker 2

Great, great question. I think that I agree with a lot of what you said. I think that the affordability issues are real. I think that I'm really pleased that we have such a strong product offering that extends beyond our what we call our Smart Series. Look, our sales were basically flat.

Speaker 2

We sold 1 or 2 more homes in the Q3 than we did a year ago. Half of them were Smart Series, half were move up. So I'm glad we have both. I think that the first time buyer and the more affordably priced product will continue to be there may be some intra quarter or throughout the year choppiness, but I think it's going to continue to be a big part of our business covering around this 50% range. Might it get a little larger?

Speaker 2

Yes, sure. We're doing a lot more attached townhomes, which is meeting the buyer at a more affordable price point. We're doing a lot more of that than we used to. It's approaching about 20% of our business, some markets even higher. But we I mean long term, I could not be more bullish about the industry.

Speaker 2

I think it's really smart for us to have the full array of product offering. We don't have any strategic shift planned. We like where we are. We like our position. Really excited about our land position.

Speaker 2

We've grown community count this year. We expect to grow community count next year and beyond. We're looking to continue to grow the business as we've said throughout every single call over the last number of years. There's a lot of stuff going on right now. There's a lot of noise.

Speaker 2

I think that's been the common theme of every builder call and it's because it's the way it is. But conditions are not bad, record returns, record profit, decent sales, strong closings. Recently, we've seen a pickup in traffic. It's just very hard to draw any clear conclusion as to where we are at a moment in time. I think all of us are looking forward to getting this election behind us.

Speaker 2

It's been quite challenging for a lot of pieces and parts of our economy and I think it is impacting consumer behavior. The impact that the hurricanes had in for our operations and as I said, Florida is about 20% plus or minus of our total business. And we're we have very, very strong operations in Tampa, Orlando and Sarasota. And we're just getting started and have really high hopes for our Fort Myers and Naples operation. From a damage standpoint, we were very fortunate.

Speaker 2

Our houses held up exceptionally well. And while we did have some damages some damage to our communities, it was not material. And thank God, there was no loss of life or anything like that. But we were basically closed in Tampa and Orlando for almost 2 weeks and not many people were out shopping. And that had an impact on how strongly we closed the month out from a sales and closing standpoint.

Speaker 2

We dropped about 20 closings in Florida that would have closed in the Q3. Those deals did not cancel. They're closing this month. But so long answer to a complicated question. I'm really optimistic about the spring selling season.

Speaker 2

We'll know it when it comes. We're prepared for it. We expect to grow the business next year. We expect the Smart Series to continue to be strong. But we have a lot of move up communities coming on next year too.

Speaker 2

We're not I don't think we're heavily weighted on any one end of the product spectrum. I just I feel really good about the way the mix is lined up. And I think it's helping us from a sales standpoint right now. I think comparatively speaking, our sales look quite good compared to our peers. And without the move up product, I don't think they would have looked as good just in the recent quarter.

Speaker 2

So I think you're the underlying premise of your question is correct. But I think we have a chance to finish out the year in really good shape. Last year, the 4th quarter sales were we sort of limped to the finish line. I think a lot of our peers limped with us. And I think we have a little bit more momentum right now than we did a year ago right now.

Speaker 2

And look, we were promoting with 3 7.8 percent for FHA mortgage and 4 7.8 percent conventional. About a third of our buyers took that product during the Q3. We're now promoting with rates in the upper 4s on the FHA side and upper 5s on the conventional side with the opportunity for buy downs, 2 1 buy downs and so forth. And we're going to continue to do that as necessary. It's very targeted.

Speaker 2

I think we're very strategic about it. And but it is clearly driving traffic right now across the industry and that looks like it's going to continue for the foreseeable future.

Speaker 4

Thank you for that very comprehensive answer, Bob. I appreciate all the thoughts. And I agree that the diversification price point gives you a lot of optionality to kind of flex wherever the market goes. I have a follow-up on kind of the last point you brought up on the rate buy down. That's kind of where I was going to go next.

Speaker 4

And I know you don't guide for gross margin, but your margins have been very solid and stable really for the last year, year and a half kind of in this 25% plus range. And it seems like incentives are picking up across the industry, rate buy downs are perhaps becoming a little bit more expensive in the near term just given the volatility in rates. So given the magnitude of rate buy downs you're offering, should we expect a little bit of pressure to your margin over the next quarter or 2? Or would you say that what you're offering right now is kind of pretty consistent with what you've been offering for the last several quarters?

Speaker 2

That's a really hard question to answer. But I do think, want to be really careful with how I say this because you're somewhat rewarded on the way up and then you're harshly penalized on the way down. I guess that's the way life is. Our 27% gross margins and 17% pretax margins sustainable long term, I don't think so. But does that mean we're going back to 20% and 8% pretax margins?

Speaker 2

No, I don't think that either. I think there could be some slight downward pressure. How much remains to be seen? We have a number of communities throughout our footprint that are running 30% plus gross margins right now even with the rate buy down. So a lot of it's going to be mix dependent.

Speaker 2

We don't we price on a per community basis within every market that we're in. We're very focused on that. We have communities that are in the low 20s right now because that's what it takes to sell houses. But we have a lot more that are in the upper 20s and as I said a number in the low 30s. We'll just have to see.

Speaker 2

I mean, I think there could be some slight downward pressure, but I expect us to continue to produce very strong returns. And we're going to do what we can. You can only sell a home once. And I mean, none of us want to fall on the sword for margins because you got to sell homes. But I think that our margins will continue to stand comparatively, Paul, in comparison to our peers because they have.

Speaker 2

And I think they'll continue to. We talk a lot about that with our leaders, our division leaders and so forth. In fact, it's one of the most talked about topics. But we're going to see. I mean, no one really knows what's going to happen with rates.

Speaker 2

If rates do start to come down even a little bit and there's less need for buy downs, that will provide margin lift or at least avoid margin decline. So we'll just it's a very hard question, but the builders have been posting pretty strong margins for quite some time and we're likely to see some decline. I read Horton's commentary. I think they're expecting it. We'll see.

Speaker 2

I mean, we may see a little decline. I don't think it's going to be significant.

Speaker 4

Great. I appreciate that, Bob. And it wouldn't be any fun if I asked the easy questions. So thanks for the thoughts.

Speaker 5

Good luck in year end. Hey, good

Speaker 2

luck in Penn State.

Speaker 5

I expect nothing less

Speaker 2

from a Michigan. I expect nothing less from a Michigan Mail.

Speaker 4

And I was just about

Speaker 1

to wish you good luck

Speaker 4

this weekend. So good luck at Penn State.

Speaker 2

Thanks, buddy.

Operator

Your next question comes from Kenneth Zenner with Seaport Research. Your line is now open.

Speaker 6

Good morning, everybody.

Speaker 2

Good morning.

Speaker 6

I wonder if you could talk to the percent of closings that were intra quarter orders. I think you might have said 60%, but I wasn't sure, just as kind of a housekeeping. And then if you could comment on the margin spread you're seeing between those intra quarter closings and your backlog or if you prefer commentary around the Smart Series versus your move up? And then related to that, why do you think your margins stand taller than peers given that you have the operational data? Thank you.

Speaker 1

Yes. As far as the first comment you made, about 40% of our closings basically came from spec houses that sold and closed during the quarter. It's kind of been that way the last couple of quarters. We do feel really good about our spec levels. In general, our spec levels are a little higher in communities that have attached townhouses and the more affordable Smart Series.

Speaker 1

As far as a gross profit comparison, really isn't a whole lot different. Again, as Bob said, it just kind of depends on the communities. Our Smart Series versus our Move Our product, we feel very good about the margins on all those product lines.

Speaker 2

The other thing I'd say is, it sounds a little cliche. I think we have really well located communities. Cities, the divisions within our company that are posting the highest margins are some of the most competitive housing markets in the country like Dallas, Raleigh, Charlotte, Columbus, Chicago. And I think we've just got some really well located communities that are generating very, very strong returns for us. Orlando is another one.

Speaker 2

And we hope we can continue it. That's what we try to do. That's you talk about main things in business and it all comes down to execution. But premier locations is a main thing concept within our business and we're constantly trying to find ways to get those premier locations and not just open up another community.

Speaker 6

Well, it's clear that discipline is it's in the numbers. My second question, really appreciate your comments around Florida 20%. Can you comment on Texas' share just to give us a little flush that out a little bit? And broadly, do you think the mortgage incentives are pulling forward demand with most new homebuyers markets you serve, having buy downs probably. And I'm just I'm curious as to your thought whether that's actually pulling forward demand at all given the incentive structure.

Speaker 6

Thank you very much. Appreciate your time.

Speaker 2

Yes. I don't have the exact share number for the exact percentage of our business that Texas is right in front of me. But Florida has been about 20% of our business plus or minus. Texas is a little higher than that. And Florida and Texas are huge parts of our business and will continue to be as we look forward, particularly when you consider we're really just getting started.

Speaker 2

It's a brand new operation for us in Fort Myers and Naples. And what was the second part of

Speaker 1

the question? As far as pulling forward demand and those type of things, our view is if you look at household formations and even though some of the housing inventory levels have increased, again you really have to look out where that inventory is located and the price point and the aging of it. We think the industry is positioned very well and there is a lot of demand out there. Interest rates and payments always matter and you do what you need to do at certain times to help your sales and help your business. As Bob mentioned, our interest rate buy downs are very focused on a subdivision and inventory level situation.

Speaker 1

So we still feel good about the macroeconomic and the outlook for our industry. It's just right now with all this going on in the marketplace buy downs are kind of the flavor of the time right now.

Speaker 6

Thank you very much.

Speaker 2

Thanks.

Operator

Your next question comes from Alex Barron with Housing Research Center. Your line is now

Speaker 7

open. Yes. Thanks, gentlemen, and great job on the quarter. Thanks. My general questions were, what would you say is the average mortgage rate that people in backlog are going into the quarter with right now given the incentives you guys have been offering?

Speaker 1

I mean that's a really hard specific type number. We talked about a third of the customers are getting assistance with those bought down rates. It really depends on the community. I mean some buyers need some help in closing cost. So every buyer is a little bit different.

Speaker 1

And again, we target that based on what we need to on a community basis. But as far as an overall rate type thing that would be a real hard number to come up with plus I'm not sure it's all that meaningful to start with.

Speaker 2

And keep in mind, Alex, and I think this is pretty much true across the industry that while the mortgage rate buy downs have been a very powerful tool and helping to generate sales. They're only good for loans or homes, I should say, that can close generally within about 60 days. So these are not 180 day rate locks, if you will. So, the buyers that take advantage of these, about a third in our case, in every instance, it's for a home that's either been in construction and now getting ready to close or a spec that's closable within 60 days.

Speaker 1

So that makes it harder to because you have

Speaker 2

a lot of unlocked, if you will, loans in the backlog otherwise, it makes it very, very hard to come up with an average.

Speaker 7

Got it. What about maybe an average of what the incentives you guys are offering at this point as a percentage of the price? How much would that be?

Speaker 1

Again, Alex, that's a real difficult number. At the end of the day, it flushes through what the gross margin is. And you look at our margins in that 20 7% range the last few quarters, we're really pleased with that. Again, depending on the subdivision, we price in a certain amount for financing, closing costs, etcetera. And we try to be very targeted as far as what does that customer actually need.

Speaker 1

And our mortgage operation as Derek says has about a 90% capture rate. So our mortgage company can work very closely our loan officers with those buyers to customize something for them to get what they need to close. And every customer tends to be a little bit different. So you incent whatever you need to. There's always incentives going on.

Speaker 1

But bottom line, we feel very good about our margins and our returns.

Speaker 7

Yes. No doubt they've been great. What about on the corporate G and A, Phil? That was $68,000,000 this quarter, kind of a step up versus the last two quarters. Is that a one time nature to those numbers or is that kind of like the new run rate?

Speaker 1

As I said, our SG and A numbers are up for a couple of different reasons. We do have about 10% more people company wide affecting all the divisions and so forth. We do have about 6%, 7% more stores. We are doing more things at a corporate marketing level as far as to help us sell houses. Also our incentive compensation is up due to our improved returns.

Speaker 1

So it's a number of things in there. And as Bob said, we also plan on continuing our growth. So it's hard to project out what those numbers are. And again, we don't get into those type of things. But we feel like we're continuing to position the company very well for continued growth.

Speaker 7

Got it. Okay, I'll get back in the queue. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Thanks.

Operator

Your next question comes from Buck Horne with Raymond James. Your line is now open.

Speaker 5

I wanted to go back to Florida just for a second and the hurricane impacts. First of all, very good news to hear that things held up really well and no serious damages. But should we think about any lingering impacts from, I mean, maybe Milton more so in October, just lingering impacts on order activity or closings in the Q4 just due to the lost selling days and or lost construction time?

Speaker 2

I think from a delivery it's a good question, Buck. I think from a delivery standpoint, I don't think so. I think that that's behind us. In terms of demand, I don't think much impact in Orlando in the 4th quarter. We're so we have such a small operation in Fort Myers, Naples, it wouldn't be material anyway.

Speaker 2

That's a relatively brand new market for us. The question is really Tampa and Sarasota and frankly Sarasota was probably hit the hardest of any of the 4 Florida markets by Milton. Could be slight. I'm not going to say it won't be anything. I think the psyche of folks living in those two cities, every day they're reminded of what happened.

Speaker 2

I mean, street after street after street in particularly older communities where there's still stuff that's not yet cleaned up could remain that way for a number of months. But I will say this, I think that the fact that new home construction throughout and this is true of every builder I know of that does business in Florida, new home construction really held up well, improved its value and thank goodness for that. And I think that we Tampa has been one of our best markets for as long as we've been there going all the way back to the early 80s. And we're very bullish about Tampa long term.

Speaker 1

Really, even though we've only been open in Sarasota for about 4 or 5 years, it's become a significant contributor for the company and we're really bullish about it long term. There could be a little noise here in the Q4, but I don't think it will be material. Buck, one of the things you're always concerned about is power and that there was pretty big hits to the power system. So company wide, we develop about 80% of our own land. So making sure you continue to get power hookups not just for new houses coming short term, but transformers and those type of things in those communities.

Speaker 1

So you're always concerned a little bit about that. But again, we try to stay on top of those things as best we can.

Speaker 5

That's great color guys. And yes, we certainly appreciate your support for staying with Tampa and Sarasota long term and we see those. I think you're exactly right in terms of the psyche impact and the cleanup efforts. Real quick follow-up on that is insurance. Have you seen any impact from insurance carriers or is there any changes in terms of the cost of getting property insurance post hurricane for your buyers or how the retail market are indicating are acting?

Speaker 2

Yes. Another really good question. I think it's too soon to know, but I doubt if it's going down. It's going to become more expensive. It just has to, right?

Speaker 2

I would not want to be in that business. But I guess indirectly, we're somewhat dependent upon that business. So that'll be something that we closely watch. I don't have any insight into that at this point. I've chatted about that with other leaders in our industry and I don't think anybody quite knows yet other than it's likely to go up.

Speaker 5

Got you. And one last question, if I can speak again?

Speaker 2

The question is whether the insurance industry will give appropriate credit to the strength of new home construction, because the damage to new homes was extraordinarily low when you take into account the severity of the storm and the unprecedented nature of it. That I don't think we know the answer to.

Speaker 8

Yes. That makes a lot

Speaker 5

of sense. And just real quick, you mentioned traffic levels, seem to show a recent uptick here. I was just wondering if you could elaborate that and just what kind of indications you're seeing in terms of pent up demand out there?

Speaker 2

I don't think I can elaborate anymore because I don't know how much pent up demand there is. This is the slowest time of the year. The Q4, year in, year out, even when things aren't encumbered with all this election stuff and everything else, the Q4 is the slowest quarter of the year, the last 3 months of the year. And so this is generally not a time for robust demand and robust sales. Having said that, we've seen traffic begin to pick up here in the last 2 to 3 weeks, which is encouraging given the time of year it is.

Speaker 2

And we're it's I don't think we're alone in this. Last year's Q4 sales, as I said before, I think most of us in the industry limped to the finish line. I think we have a chance to not quite limp so much this year. I think it will be better.

Speaker 8

Thanks for the color guys. Good luck.

Speaker 2

Thanks Buck.

Operator

Your next question comes from Jay McCanless with Wedbush. Your line is now open.

Speaker 8

Hey, good morning everyone.

Speaker 1

Hi, Jay.

Speaker 8

I guess, Phil, if we hey, good morning. We could dig in a little more into what actually happened with the sales mix this quarter to hit that really solid gross margin?

Speaker 1

As far as what happened each month of the quarter as we went through?

Speaker 8

Well, or was it a heavier mix? Our sales mix certainly improved

Speaker 1

as the quarter went on, Jay.

Speaker 8

Okay. And I guess it kind of falls into my next question. What with rates going up, but now you're saying traffic's looking better, Bob, I guess, how has October played out, especially given some of the higher rates that we've seen?

Speaker 2

Well, we normally don't talk about the current month, but I think October is playing out better than expected. Let me just say that.

Speaker 1

Jay, we've also we've been pleased. They've actually performed better than we thought. Our new stores that have been opening and that's a really big number. Of course, last year we opened like 75 new stores. We grew average community count last year 7% or 8%.

Speaker 1

And this year, we're going to be in that ballpark again. So the performance of your new stores really, really matter. Also as Bob mentioned, I mean, we have been opening half or whatever of move up type operations. We really product and price diversification and especially some of those move up communities we've opened have done very, very well. So again, that's helped us also.

Speaker 8

That's great, Phil. And then one other thing, just I know everybody's been talking about the election, but what we've heard from some of your other public competitors in the new housing space is that some people are actually waiting to see if this credit develops or materializes that I know the Democrats have talked about, I'm not sure where the Republicans are on this issue. But is that something that you're hearing in the field that people are kind of waiting to see whether credit materializes or not before they go forward with their purchase?

Speaker 2

I think I've heard everything but that. I don't mean to be snarky. I haven't heard anything about that as a cause for pause. I just think we're worn out.

Speaker 8

More of a confidence issue than anything else?

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 8

I'm

Speaker 2

knowing what we know today, I'm pleased with where traffic and demand looks like it is for us right now.

Speaker 8

Okay. That sounds great. And then last one, could you talk about pricing, especially it sounds like move up you guys are getting pricing, but maybe what percentage of your communities were able to raise price during the quarter?

Speaker 1

We didn't talk about that, but overall demand is okay. If you look at our average sale price and backlog the last few quarters, it has continued to go up. Do we have a higher mix of move up type communities? Maybe a little bit. But again, it comes down so much to location, product, price point, every community is a little bit different.

Speaker 1

We talked about being very targeted in incentives. But we're really pretty pleased with our price point and margins. And you know how it is Jay, when you have $3,000,000,000 $4,000,000,000 $5,000,000,000 of revenue, 10 basis points, 25 basis points matter so much. So we focus on that pricing every day.

Speaker 8

Understood. Okay, great. Thanks guys. Appreciate the time.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from Alex Barron with Housing Research Center. Your line is now open.

Speaker 7

Yes, thanks for the follow-up. Yes, so I was looking at your share repurchase activity and it's obviously been picking up quarter in the last few quarters. Just wanted to see if you guys could share with us your general thought process as you approach share buybacks going forward? And also whether there's been any discussion or thoughts about introducing a dividend?

Speaker 1

Your question is about share repurchase?

Speaker 7

Yes.

Speaker 1

We've had $50,000,000 a quarter of repurchases the last couple of quarters. We look at that every quarter as far as what our business needs are. We do like our leverage where it is right now in the 20% range. So we will continue to look at that. We talked about our low debt levels and so forth.

Speaker 1

But we like what we're doing. We talked about we bought back over 10% of the stock in the last couple of years and that's something we'll just continuing to look at and depending on our business and so forth, just continue. We're pleased with what we're doing.

Speaker 2

The other part of your question is about our thoughts about a dividend. There's no plans for anything like that at this point.

Speaker 7

Okay. Thank you, gentlemen.

Speaker 2

Thanks.

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Creek for closing remarks.

Speaker 1

Thank you for joining us. Look forward to talking to you next quarter.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines.

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