NYSE:NVRI Enviri Q3 2024 Earnings Report $6.68 +0.01 (+0.15%) As of 03:15 PM Eastern This is a fair market value price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. Earnings HistoryForecast Enviri EPS ResultsActual EPS-$0.01Consensus EPS $0.07Beat/MissMissed by -$0.08One Year Ago EPS$0.05Enviri Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$573.60 millionExpected Revenue$613.63 millionBeat/MissMissed by -$40.03 millionYoY Revenue Growth-3.90%Enviri Announcement DetailsQuarterQ3 2024Date10/31/2024TimeBefore Market OpensConference Call DateThursday, October 31, 2024Conference Call Time9:00AM ETUpcoming EarningsEnviri's Q1 2025 earnings is scheduled for Thursday, May 1, 2025, with a conference call scheduled at 9:00 AM ET. Check back for transcripts, audio, and key financial metrics as they become available.Q1 2025 Earnings ReportConference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptSlide DeckPress Release (8-K)Quarterly Report (10-Q)SEC FilingEarnings HistoryCompany ProfileSlide DeckFull Screen Slide DeckPowered by Enviri Q3 2024 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrOctober 31, 2024 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 8 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good morning. My name is Danielle, and I will be your conference facilitator. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Enviry Corporation Third Quarter Release Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to avoid any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer period. Operator00:00:32Also, this telephone conference presentation and accompanying webcast made on behalf of Envira Corporation are subject to copyright by Envira Corporation and all rights are reserved. Please note this call is being recorded. No recordings or redistributions of this telephone conference by any other party are permitted without the expressed written consent of Invari Corporation. Your participation indicates your agreement. I would now like to introduce Dave Martin of Enviry Corporation. Operator00:01:04Mr. Martin, you may begin your call. Speaker 100:01:07Thank you, Danielle, and welcome to everyone joining us this morning. I'm Dave Martin, VP of Investor Relations for Enviry. With me today is Nick Grasberger, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer and Tom Batykeff, our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. This morning, we will discuss our results for the Q3 and our outlook for the remainder of the year. We'll then take your questions. Speaker 100:01:30Before our presentation, let me mention a few items. First, our quarterly earnings release and slide presentation for this call are available on our website. 2nd, we will make statements today that are considered forward looking within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These statements are based on our current knowledge and expectations and are subject to certain risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from those forward looking statements. For a discussion of such risks and uncertainties, see the Risk Factors section in our most recent 10 ks and more recent 10 Qs. Speaker 100:02:05The company undertakes no obligation to revise or update any forward looking statement. Lastly, on this call, we will refer to adjusted financial results that are considered non GAAP for SEC reporting purposes. A reconciliation to GAAP results is included in our earnings release and the slide presentation. With that being said, I'll turn the call to Nick. Thanks. Speaker 200:02:29Thank you, Dave, and good morning, everyone. Before we get into the results, I'd like to acknowledge our late colleague and friend, Mauro Curry, who is the President of our Harsco Environmental segment. We unexpectedly lost Mauro near the end of this past quarter. Mauro will be remembered for his energy and passion and his commitment to our business and to our values. We are fortunate to have a strong team across HE and at the executive level, and I will lead HE until a new President is named, which we expect to be early next year. Speaker 200:03:07Turning to the quarter, I'll make a few comments on our Q3 results and on each of our three segments, and then provide an update on our strategic plan and our business portfolio as we focus on creating shareholder value. Our Q3 can be characterized by 4 developments. Number 1, another record quarter for Clean Earth in terms of EBITDA and EBITDA margin. 2nd, with HE, a weakening of the global steel market due to the impact of excess capacity in China and slower demand in many of our key geographies. 3rd, continued supply chain and operational challenges in our rail business. Speaker 200:03:53And 4th, the strengthening of our balance sheet through asset sales and renewal and extensions of our revolver and other short term credit facilities. Turning to Clean Earth, the business continues to exceed expectations and deliver double digit earnings growth against challenging comparisons to last year. Adjusted EBITDA increased over 20% versus Q3 of last year, while the EBITDA margin improved 17.5%, an increase of over 300 basis points. Cash flow remains strong. Pricing mix and numerous projects aimed at improving efficiency are driving the business. Speaker 200:04:36In addition to these factors moving forward, Clean Earth should also benefit from volume growth linked to sustainability initiatives among customers and new markets such as PFAS. We will also benefit from upgraded and common IT systems and other technology driven initiatives as part of our One Clean Earth program. Harsco Environmental has faced headwinds due to a weakening steel industry in most markets. Excess capacity and weaker demand in China, which accounts for 50% of global steel production has led to a flood of exports from the country, which has put pressure on some of our customers in less protected markets. Over the past 6 months, we've seen a handful of steel mills we support either cease or reduce production. Speaker 200:05:28Eventually, we expect China to reduce capacity, while other countries increase protections against cheap Chinese steel. The falling steel price premium outside of China should also ease this pressure potentially in the near term. Overall, we continue to see our mix of customers and contracts as positive and we do not expect this short term disruption to have a meaningful effect on our 3 year outlook for HE that we shared a few months ago at our Analyst Day. Harsco Rail continues to face operational challenges related primarily to the late deliveries from key vendors, global shipping disruptions and some bottlenecks in our own manufacturing processes. Tom will touch on the steps we're taking to improve these operational issues. Speaker 200:06:19In addition, Hurricane Helene affected production and shipments at the end of the quarter from our primary manufacturing facility in Columbia, South Carolina. Overall demand for our equipment, aftermarket parts and services remains healthy in all markets outside of China. I'm pleased with the progress we continue to make in improving our balance sheet. We've exceeded our goal of generating $50,000,000 to $75,000,000 of proceeds from asset sales, primarily non core businesses. In addition, our sizable pension fund in the UK is now fully funded and we don't believe further contributions will be needed. Speaker 200:07:02We've reached this milestone about a year earlier than expected. And finally, the amendment and extension of our short term credit facilities was well supported by our bank group and further strengthens our liquidity and debt maturity profile. As discussed during our Analyst Day last June, the Board and the management team are focused on taking actions that are in the best interest of Enviry and all of our shareholders. This includes frequently evaluating all options to enhance shareholder value and narrow Enviry's valuation gap. And we are open minded with respect to how we achieve these goals. Speaker 200:07:44Based on our evaluations to date, our view, our well informed view is that the best course of action is to continue executing on our operational plan outlined a few months ago. We are confident that meaningful organic growth and margin improvement over the next 2 or 3 years will boost the value of both Harsco Environmental and Clean Earth, while allowing time to stabilize the rail business and better position that business for sale. We already have actions underway to support these initiatives and as a result expect to yield EBITDA in excess of $400,000,000 in 2027 with free cash flow of more than $150,000,000 and net leverage of 2.5 times. This will also provide greater strategic flexibility and optionality for value creation in the future. We expect to steadily improve free cash flow each year. Speaker 200:08:42Cash flow generation has been reduced the past few years by the investments made in our rail business to execute 3 long term contracts in Europe. This investment will decline next year and then these contracts become a source of cash in the later half of twenty twenty six and into 2027. In 2025, we expect free cash flow of between $40,000,000 $60,000,000 due to improved performance in rail, continued strong cash flow in HE and CE and lower interest expense and pension contributions. I will now turn the call over to Tom. Speaker 300:09:22Thanks, Nick, and good morning, everyone. Overall, Q3 was a challenging quarter due to market related customer, supply chain and weather related pressures, particularly for Hosco Environmental and Rail. The Enviry team responded to these challenges by pushing hard to close the quarter on a positive note and I'm pleased that we delivered adjusted EBITDA within our guidance range for the quarter. Now let me comment on our Q3 performance further starting on Slide 4. In the Q3, revenues totaled $574,000,000 down 4% on a reported basis. Speaker 300:10:03Revenues increased modestly on an organic basis excluding the impacts of FX translation, recent divestitures and a $5,000,000 ETO related adjustment in rail. Adjusted EBITDA was $85,000,000 an improvement of 3% year over year as reported and little changed from our multi year high in the second quarter. FX translation and divestitures impacted our EBITDA growth by roughly 5%. Our year over year earnings growth was driven by Clean Earth, which had another fantastic quarter with record quarterly earnings and margins. Relative to guidance, rail performance was below our expectations and was impacted by shipment and supply chain delays for standard equipment, lower aftermarket sales in Asia and lower revenue recognition and profits on certain contracts due to operational bottlenecks and higher costs. Speaker 300:11:04Hurricane Helane right at the end of the quarter also impacted deliveries. HE results were also slightly below our internal expectations where we saw lower service volumes driven by our customers curtailing or slowing production in recent months, as well as delays starting new sites and contract exit costs. These weaknesses in performance were offset by Clean Earth, where we benefited from pricing, efficiency initiatives and better overall cost performance. Our adjusted diluted loss per share was $0.01 for the quarter. Adjusted free cash flow for the quarter was a deficit of $34,000,000 versus a deficit of $7,000,000 in the prior year quarter, with the change due to the timing of working capital and capital spending. Speaker 300:11:56Free cash flow was anticipated to be negative in the quarter, although it was below our expectations mainly due to the cash impacts of the shipment and production delays in rail. We saw significant cash usage this quarter in rail, where our ETO contracts continue to consume cash. Otherwise, HE and CE generated approximately $50,000,000 of free cash flow in the quarter and this offset our interest costs and other corporate items. Our covenant leverage ratio remains just below 4 times and our net debt was stable in the quarter. The successful sale of Reed Minerals offset the impact of the negative cash flow on our total debt. Speaker 300:12:40Lastly, before moving on to segment results, I was very pleased that we extended our revolver and accounts receivable facilities at favorable terms. We will continue to have a proactive approach to deal with upcoming coming debt maturities. And with these two extensions, the next major maturity is not until 2027. Also, since the quarter ended, we entered into an additional floating to fixed interest rate swap for a portion of our term loan. The terms were attractive and I view the swap as prudent risk management against future rate movements. Speaker 300:13:19Please turn to Slide 5 and our HE segment. Segment revenues totaled $279,000,000 down 2% compared with the prior year quarter, net of a $6,000,000 FX translation impact and a $15,000,000 impact from divestitures. Adjusting for the FX impact and the sale of Performix and REIT Minerals, organic growth for HE was 5%. Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter totaled $53,000,000 which was modestly lower versus the prior year and again is net of FX and divestitures. Compared with last year, FX, divestitures and contract exits offset the favorable impact of price, growth investments and higher service levels in HE. Speaker 300:14:10HE's EBITDA margin was 19% in the quarter. Next, please turn to Slide 6 to discuss Clean Earth. For the quarter, revenues totaled $237,000,000 down 1% versus the prior year with lower industrial and soil volumes mostly offset by higher prices. Hazardous materials revenues totaled $195,000,000 while soil dredge revenues were $42,000,000 for the quarter. Meanwhile, adjusted EBITDA increased 23% to reach $42,000,000 and CE's quarterly margin increased to 17.5%. Speaker 300:14:51Both of these KPIs are again quarterly records for CE. The increase in EBITDA was driven by price, lower incentive compensation and lower bad debt expenses as well as lower transportation and disposal costs that are the result of our efficiency initiatives. Now please turn to Slide 7 and our rail business. Rail revenues totaled $58,000,000 and its adjusted EBITDA was a loss of $2,000,000 in the 2nd quarter. Compared with the 2023 quarter, the EBITDA change is the result of lower aftermarket and contracted services volumes, as well as lower revenues from various other equipment contracts. Speaker 300:15:37We also incurred an FX loss of approximately $1,000,000 linked to the Turkish lira. Contributions from standard equipment were modestly higher year on year. Both revenues and adjusted EBITDA in the quarter were impacted by Hurricane Helane right at the end of the quarter, which resulted in certain shipments being pushed to the 4th quarter. I'll note that the adjusted EBITDA for the quarter excludes forward loss adjustments of $10,500,000 related to our 3 large ETO contracts in Europe. The impact of these adjustments on revenues was approximately a reduction of $5,000,000 in the quarter, which skews the year on year revenue comparison. Speaker 300:16:22As mentioned earlier, supply chain issues and operational bottlenecks continue to hamper rail. Fixing these issues is a top priority for the company and we have taken action to strengthen the rail team and have launched several initiatives to improve these areas of the business. Another key priority is of course to continue to drive the completion of the 3 large ETO contracts. As I mentioned earlier, the business saw significant cash usage in the quarter stemming from delayed deliveries to customers in the base business and on certain contracts. We expect the business to be in a net cash use position for the full year in the $40,000,000 range. Speaker 300:17:05We continue to see strong demand in our base business for equipment and services and our pipeline is strong. Year to date bookings Speaker 200:17:13were over Speaker 300:17:13$140,000,000 and in line with our expectations. As we said at our Investor Day in June, rail is a valuable part of Rail is a valuable part of our portfolio, which we expect will deliver steady earnings and cash flow in the future. Now let me turn to our updated 2024 outlook on Slide 8. Enviry's full year adjusted EBITDA is now expected to be within a range of $317,000,000 to $327,000,000 which is up 5% versus 2023. The midpoint of this range is down just over $10,000,000 from our prior guidance with the lower range reflecting tempered expectations for HE and Rail, partially offset by a raised outlook for Clean Earth. Speaker 300:18:03For HE, the change reflects the impact of the REIT divestiture. It also reflects lower service levels in HE as a result of reduced production and some curtailments by our steel customers in Q4. This expectation reflects recent outlooks provided by the World Steel Association and others. September steel production among our customers was the lowest of the year and we expect these production levels to be maintained for the remainder of the year. For rail, the change relates to some shipments being pushed into 2025 and our latest assessment of our performance on certain contracts. Speaker 300:18:43Our detailed segment outlook can be found in the appendix of the presentation. The other item I would mention is free cash flow, where our outlook has also changed. Lower cash generation for the year reflects the reduced expectations for earnings and is also partially timing related. It reflects slower cash receipts from China, which we have flagged to you in the past and the push out of some milestone receipts in rail. The midpoint of our free cash flow guidance is now negative $10,000,000 This total includes cash usage at Rail, which I just mentioned a moment ago. Speaker 300:19:22Otherwise, we expect HE and CE will together generate approximately $200,000,000 of cash this year, which we've said previously and which we find compelling. And this almost fully offsets our interest and other cash outflows. To be clear, we are disappointed in our 2025 cash performance. As Nick said, we do expect a positive inflection in our cash generation in 2025. Our interest burden should decline as should our pension contributions. Speaker 300:19:54And most importantly, we expect rail cash performance to improve as we make progress on our large ATO contracts. Let me conclude on Slide 9 with our Q4 guidance. Q4 adjusted EBITDA is expected to range from $68,000,000 to $78,000,000 And I would note that Q4 is traditionally a seasonally weak quarter for both HE and CE. Relative to 2023, HE Environmental EBITDA, hospital environmental EBITDA is anticipated to be lower due to FX translation impacts, contract exits, divestitures and a less favorable services mix. Clean Earth EBITDA is expected to be above the prior year quarter with higher prices, cost improvements and lower incentive comp expected to drive earnings growth. Speaker 300:20:47And rail EBITDA is expected to increase modestly year on year due to higher volumes and improved mix and certain contract adjustments in the prior year quarter. Lastly, on Q4, I would note that free cash flow is anticipated to strengthen from Q3 as is normally the case. Cash receipt delays from Q3 will also help cash performance in the current quarter. Thanks. And I'll now hand the call back to the operator for Q and A. Operator00:21:17We will now begin the question and answer session. The first question comes from Rob Brown from Lake Street Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Speaker 400:21:43Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I guess first question is on the ability to kind of deal with lower volumes in HE. How much of that is a fixed cost business? And how much flexibility do you have there to sort of lower costs with lower activity? Speaker 200:21:58Yes. Hi, Rob, it's Nick. As you know, we have minimum billings and fixed fees, which provide a good bit Speaker 300:22:05of protection against volume declines Speaker 200:22:05below a certain threshold. But until that threshold is reached, there is some impact. And that's what we saw during the quarter and expect to see again in Q4. And then I think Tom and I both mentioned that there have been a few sites that have just simply shut down. And so that the impact of that is in our Q3 results and guidance as well. Speaker 400:22:43Okay, great. Thank you. And then on the volume growth in Clean Earth, are you seeing that continue to grow nicely and where are you seeing the strength there? Just some color on the volume growth would be helpful. Thank Speaker 200:22:57you. Yes. In general, the Healthcare segment has been healthy for us, seeing volume growth there. In retail, there's been a healthy amount of churn. And so that's been flat to soft. Speaker 200:23:14And then the weakest of the 3 has been the so called industrial or manufacturing sector where we've seen softness. Speaker 400:23:30Okay. Thank you. I'll turn it over. Operator00:23:33The next question comes from Larry Solow from CJS Securities. Please go ahead. Speaker 500:23:42Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions and my condolences as well to Mauro Curry's family. I guess first question just on the environmental piece. Sounds like we're obviously in a period of declining global volumes. Just curious, what's like your contract win net loss rate? Speaker 500:24:02I know you mentioned some contract losses or you walked away from some contracts. Just trying to figure out your ability to sort of grow revenue in this environment. I know you mentioned a new contract or you had a press release, Nucor Steel, just a couple of weeks ago. So just curious if you can give us any color on from a global level, high level, your net win rate and does this new contract have any is that meaningful? Speaker 200:24:31Yes. I'll respond to that in a second, Larry. But let me first just emphasize what I think the audience knows here, which is that the best way to look at the performance of HE is on an EBITDA minus CapEx business. So we've softened our guidance on EBITDA, but the impact on EBITDA minus CapEx is much less. This business is much more stable than it has been and at a higher level of cash flow than we've seen for a long time. Speaker 200:25:04And so we are able to mitigate some of these volume declines with efficiency on capital spending. And we've seen that in the Q3 and will in Q4 and into next year as well. And in terms of revenue growth, we've commented before and it certainly remains the case that we have a extraordinarily healthy and lengthy pipeline of growth opportunities in HE. Our competitive position is quite strong and since we limit our investment in growth contracts, we're really only selecting the best opportunities that tend to be in growth markets. The terms and conditions are the best and of course the returns are higher and the risk is lower. Speaker 200:26:01And we have a number of those contracts that are ramping up now. We'll see the benefit of those in 2025. And that will serve to mitigate some of the short term impact that we're seeing in some of our existing sites. But in general, there's a significant geographic shift underway in our portfolio now away from the UK and Europe and towards growth markets, India, Turkey, Mexico, I think increasingly the U. S. Speaker 200:26:37Given the protections we have here against low cost imports. But this takes time, right? We've seen some of that this year. We'll see more of it next year. But in general, this geographic shift is really going to be a tailwind for Speaker 500:26:56the business. Okay. I appreciate the color. And on the positive side, Clean Earth is obviously relatively flat revenue and volumes had a very nice quarter on the margin side. I think you were up even sequentially like 150 bps. Speaker 500:27:15I know you've done a lot of initiatives over the last 2 years, Nick, pricing and efficiencies. I think you had updated the sort of 3 year target to 2017 around where we are today on the margin. Is there more room for upside? Pretty impressive too this quarter. Anything unusual to kind of drive further increases in margin on flat revenue? Speaker 200:27:40I would say nothing unusual. As you know, the 1st 4 years of Clean Earth, we focused an awful lot on efficiency and cost and pricing and leadership and structure and so forth. And we're now putting a significant effort behind driving volume growth with new leadership, new focus, kind of enhanced value propositions and so forth. So I think as we look forward, we'll start to see more volume growth drive margin expansion and EBITDA and top line growth in that business. Speaker 300:28:22Okay. Speaker 500:28:22And then just last question on the cash flow or the free cash flow. I appreciate sort of the early look out to next year. If you look at the midpoint from this year to next year, it's a nice significant jump, I think like $60,000,000 I know rail is losing $40,000,000 this year. Is the biggest piece of kind of that flip going to be that rail number goes from $40,000,000 to maybe closer to positive next year? Just trying to get a little better handle on that. Speaker 500:28:51Thanks. Speaker 300:28:53Yes. Look, we obviously will comment in more detail. We're going to go through our annual planning cycle here momentarily and then we'll obviously give you guys guidance in the early part. But I think of it in maybe 4 distinct pieces, right? So pensions contributions, cash pensions contributions, we expect that to be down significantly year on year as we go into 2025. Speaker 300:29:26Nick mentioned that our pension fund in the UK is now at a fully funded status. We still got to do a little bit of work to make it happen, but I expect those contributions to be down significantly. Interest costs, yet needless to say, we expect interest payments to be down somewhat year on year. So those are 2 big chunks that already have sort of give us some pathway there. And indeed on rail, we expect the rail cash performance. Speaker 300:29:56As I said in my comments this year, rail is in a cash use position in the $40,000,000 range, right, so negative $40,000,000 I do expect that to improve significantly. I can't say now it's a little too early, if you don't mind, Larry, and I'll give you more details, but whether it flips into positive, but certainly expect it to be much, much better. And then of course, the HE and CE businesses, we expect to keep chugging along and those will deliver a little bit extra cash as well. Speaker 500:30:29Great. And I appreciate that color, Tom. Thank you, everyone. Speaker 200:30:32I think one important point just to add on these long term contracts in Rail. With the exception of the 2 large contracts in the UK and Germany, the others all flip to positive cash flow when they end next year. So that will significantly reduce the net cash outflow in rail next year. We've been investing the past couple of years about 50,000,000 dollars per year in cash in those contracts. And so again, when you start to look forward thinking our long range plan, when that $50,000,000 is over and we're generating $30,000,000 to $40,000,000 of cash flow in rail per year, plus the cash flow in HE and CE, which should continue to be strong and interest comes down and pension. Speaker 200:31:31Now that's why we're pretty confident we're going to get to this $150,000,000 plus range per year in free cash flow in a couple of Speaker 500:31:40years. Got it. Thanks, Nick. Operator00:31:49The next question comes from Brian Butler from Stifel. Please go ahead. Speaker 600:31:55Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Speaker 400:31:58Hi, Brian. Speaker 300:31:58Hi, Brian. Speaker 600:32:00On the rail piece, can we just go back to those ETO contracts that are kind of you've been investing in and kind of you're getting the positive? What still can you remind everyone the timeline and how much cash should those ultimately generate over the next 3, 4 years as they kind of rent as they finish up? Because you really should have a pretty positive inflow after multiple years of investments in it? Speaker 200:32:27Yes, no doubt. So next year on the smaller ETO contracts, I think that number is $20,000,000 to $25,000,000 of positive next year. That'll be offset by continued investment into the contracts in the UK and in Germany. But those two contracts, if you look to the latter part of 2026 into 2027, 2028, collectively those should throw off $75,000,000 or so of free cash flow. Not per share. Speaker 200:33:02And my comment a minute ago was when we're on the other side of those, right. We'll still swing from kind of minus $50,000,000 what we've been seeing in rail the past couple of years to kind of a plus 20 or 30, even not accounting for the positive cash flow at the end of those 2 large contracts. Speaker 600:33:26Okay. And then on the hurricane activity that got kind of pushed, can you give some color on the sales and EBITDA that ultimately got moved? And is there more is there a tailwind at some point on the cleanup side? Speaker 200:33:41Yes. I think there were 3 or 4 machines that ultimately did not make it out the door or could not be picked up by the shipping the transportation company. And I'm going to say the EBITDA impact of that was Speaker 300:33:58a few million dollars 1,000,000 to $2,000,000 Speaker 600:34:03Okay. And then I guess last one, when you think of clean earth kind of looking into 2025, I mean it still sounds like it's pretty bullish and you had the industrial softness. Maybe your thoughts on, again, what that could look like? I mean, I'm not looking for guidance per se, but the momentum that you have, is that can that be carried into 2025? Speaker 200:34:29Yes, we certainly think so. And then adding to that would be an expectation for volume growth next year, which we largely did not have this year. Speaker 600:34:43Okay, great. Thanks for taking the questions. Operator00:34:52The next question comes from Devin Dodge from BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Speaker 700:34:58Yes, thanks. Good morning. So maybe I just wanted to come back to the Rail division, another adjustment to the forward loss provision to those ETO contracts. Just can you provide some color behind the drivers of this? It's just it's a provision that's going up. Speaker 700:35:16I'm just trying to understand if things are getting worse or was there an assumption that things will get better in that, let's say, coming out of Q2? Speaker 300:35:25Devin, yes, I'll try and answer that. It's Tom here. Look, these are very complex projects, right? And we're making engines of vehicles that no one's made before. They're highly engineered, highly customized for each customer according to the design specs that they wanted us to produce. Speaker 300:35:51And they're long term in nature as well. And so the ability of any company to be honest to be able to very, very accurately to the nearest million estimate the costs is challenging. And so as we get closer to the endpoints, we're getting better visibility sometimes to what it's really going to take to make these. And so there is a constant fine tuning. Now we do have puts and calls, right. Speaker 300:36:20So sometimes we are able to reduce what we think it's going to cost. Sometimes it does cost more. There are also changes in the supply chain. There may be price increases, etcetera. So we are managing all of these things. Speaker 300:36:35There's a ton of focus as you can imagine to try and do that. But occasionally, we do have to acknowledge from an accounting point of view that the cost is going to be more and that's what drove those adjustments. Speaker 700:36:54Okay. Speaker 300:36:54So it's not yes, it's not overly optimistic expectations or whatever. It's just to me, it's just a natural part of this process given that you have these very long standing contracts and you're discovering more as you go along. Speaker 700:37:16Okay, fair enough. Okay. And then maybe just another question likely for you, Tom, just something that stands out on the cash flow statement. So non controlling interests in the financial cash flows, it seems like dividends are outpacing earnings contributions pretty meaningfully this year. Just can you remind us what assets they relate to and why the gap between dividends and earnings has been more pronounced this year? Speaker 300:37:41Yes, it's probably just timing, right? So you've got accumulated earnings over the years and at some point we trip into a need to distribute some of those. The main joint ventures that I can think about, of course, we have some in China, as you know, and then in Italy. I look around to my colleagues to see if there's anything else that you would tell us. So I think those are the main. Speaker 300:38:04So it's all HE related and what we needed to do in order to get into some of those businesses. But it's timing. Okay. Thanks Speaker 700:38:18for that. I'll turn it over. Operator00:38:31This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Dave Martin for closing remarks. Speaker 100:38:40Thank you for joining us this morning. Feel free to contact me with any follow-up questions. And as always, we appreciate your interest in the company and look forward to speaking with many of you in the coming weeks. Take care. Operator00:38:54The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.Read morePowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallEnviri Q3 202400:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsSlide DeckPress Release(8-K)Quarterly report(10-Q) Enviri Earnings HeadlinesEnviri Corporation to Participate in Upcoming Investor ConferencesApril 25 at 8:00 AM | globenewswire.comEnviri Corporation Announces Gary Lada as President of Harsco RailApril 21, 2025 | globenewswire.comNow I look stupid. Real stupid... I thought what happened 25 years ago was a once- in-a-lifetime event… but how wrong I was. Because here we are, a quarter of a century later, almost to the exact day, and it’s happening again. April 25, 2025 | Porter & Company (Ad)Enviri Corporation to Announce Q1 2025 EarningsApril 17, 2025 | msn.com3 Reasons to Sell NVRI and 1 Stock to Buy InsteadApril 16, 2025 | msn.comEnviri Corporation Announces Timing of First Quarter 2025 Results and Conference CallApril 14, 2025 | globenewswire.comSee More Enviri Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like Enviri? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on Enviri and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About EnviriEnviri (NYSE:NVRI) provides environmental solutions for industrial and specialty waste streams in the United States and internationally. The company operates through two segments: Harsco Environmental and Clean Earth. The Harsco Environmental segment offers on-site services under long-term contracts for material logistics, product quality improvement, and resource recovery for iron, steel, and metals manufacturing; manufactures and sells industrial abrasives, roofing granules, aluminum dross, and scrap processing systems; and meltshop and furnace services, such as under-vessel cleaning, removal of ladle slag, and general melt shop debris. This segment also produces and sells value-added downstream products from industrial waste-stream, including road surfacing and materials, such as slag-based asphalt product under the SteelPhal brand; abrasives and roofing materials under the BLACK BEAUTY and SURE/CUT brand names; Metallurgical Additives; agriculture and turf products comprising soil conditioners and fertilizers under the CrossOver and AgrowSil brands; and cement additives. The Clean Earth segment provides specialty waste processing, treatment, recycling, and beneficial reuse solutions for waste needs, such as hazardous, non-hazardous, and contaminated soils and dredged materials to industrial, retail, healthcare, and construction industries. The company was formerly known as Harsco Corporation and changed its name to Enviri Corporation in June 2023. 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There are 8 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good morning. My name is Danielle, and I will be your conference facilitator. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Enviry Corporation Third Quarter Release Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to avoid any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer period. Operator00:00:32Also, this telephone conference presentation and accompanying webcast made on behalf of Envira Corporation are subject to copyright by Envira Corporation and all rights are reserved. Please note this call is being recorded. No recordings or redistributions of this telephone conference by any other party are permitted without the expressed written consent of Invari Corporation. Your participation indicates your agreement. I would now like to introduce Dave Martin of Enviry Corporation. Operator00:01:04Mr. Martin, you may begin your call. Speaker 100:01:07Thank you, Danielle, and welcome to everyone joining us this morning. I'm Dave Martin, VP of Investor Relations for Enviry. With me today is Nick Grasberger, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer and Tom Batykeff, our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. This morning, we will discuss our results for the Q3 and our outlook for the remainder of the year. We'll then take your questions. Speaker 100:01:30Before our presentation, let me mention a few items. First, our quarterly earnings release and slide presentation for this call are available on our website. 2nd, we will make statements today that are considered forward looking within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These statements are based on our current knowledge and expectations and are subject to certain risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from those forward looking statements. For a discussion of such risks and uncertainties, see the Risk Factors section in our most recent 10 ks and more recent 10 Qs. Speaker 100:02:05The company undertakes no obligation to revise or update any forward looking statement. Lastly, on this call, we will refer to adjusted financial results that are considered non GAAP for SEC reporting purposes. A reconciliation to GAAP results is included in our earnings release and the slide presentation. With that being said, I'll turn the call to Nick. Thanks. Speaker 200:02:29Thank you, Dave, and good morning, everyone. Before we get into the results, I'd like to acknowledge our late colleague and friend, Mauro Curry, who is the President of our Harsco Environmental segment. We unexpectedly lost Mauro near the end of this past quarter. Mauro will be remembered for his energy and passion and his commitment to our business and to our values. We are fortunate to have a strong team across HE and at the executive level, and I will lead HE until a new President is named, which we expect to be early next year. Speaker 200:03:07Turning to the quarter, I'll make a few comments on our Q3 results and on each of our three segments, and then provide an update on our strategic plan and our business portfolio as we focus on creating shareholder value. Our Q3 can be characterized by 4 developments. Number 1, another record quarter for Clean Earth in terms of EBITDA and EBITDA margin. 2nd, with HE, a weakening of the global steel market due to the impact of excess capacity in China and slower demand in many of our key geographies. 3rd, continued supply chain and operational challenges in our rail business. Speaker 200:03:53And 4th, the strengthening of our balance sheet through asset sales and renewal and extensions of our revolver and other short term credit facilities. Turning to Clean Earth, the business continues to exceed expectations and deliver double digit earnings growth against challenging comparisons to last year. Adjusted EBITDA increased over 20% versus Q3 of last year, while the EBITDA margin improved 17.5%, an increase of over 300 basis points. Cash flow remains strong. Pricing mix and numerous projects aimed at improving efficiency are driving the business. Speaker 200:04:36In addition to these factors moving forward, Clean Earth should also benefit from volume growth linked to sustainability initiatives among customers and new markets such as PFAS. We will also benefit from upgraded and common IT systems and other technology driven initiatives as part of our One Clean Earth program. Harsco Environmental has faced headwinds due to a weakening steel industry in most markets. Excess capacity and weaker demand in China, which accounts for 50% of global steel production has led to a flood of exports from the country, which has put pressure on some of our customers in less protected markets. Over the past 6 months, we've seen a handful of steel mills we support either cease or reduce production. Speaker 200:05:28Eventually, we expect China to reduce capacity, while other countries increase protections against cheap Chinese steel. The falling steel price premium outside of China should also ease this pressure potentially in the near term. Overall, we continue to see our mix of customers and contracts as positive and we do not expect this short term disruption to have a meaningful effect on our 3 year outlook for HE that we shared a few months ago at our Analyst Day. Harsco Rail continues to face operational challenges related primarily to the late deliveries from key vendors, global shipping disruptions and some bottlenecks in our own manufacturing processes. Tom will touch on the steps we're taking to improve these operational issues. Speaker 200:06:19In addition, Hurricane Helene affected production and shipments at the end of the quarter from our primary manufacturing facility in Columbia, South Carolina. Overall demand for our equipment, aftermarket parts and services remains healthy in all markets outside of China. I'm pleased with the progress we continue to make in improving our balance sheet. We've exceeded our goal of generating $50,000,000 to $75,000,000 of proceeds from asset sales, primarily non core businesses. In addition, our sizable pension fund in the UK is now fully funded and we don't believe further contributions will be needed. Speaker 200:07:02We've reached this milestone about a year earlier than expected. And finally, the amendment and extension of our short term credit facilities was well supported by our bank group and further strengthens our liquidity and debt maturity profile. As discussed during our Analyst Day last June, the Board and the management team are focused on taking actions that are in the best interest of Enviry and all of our shareholders. This includes frequently evaluating all options to enhance shareholder value and narrow Enviry's valuation gap. And we are open minded with respect to how we achieve these goals. Speaker 200:07:44Based on our evaluations to date, our view, our well informed view is that the best course of action is to continue executing on our operational plan outlined a few months ago. We are confident that meaningful organic growth and margin improvement over the next 2 or 3 years will boost the value of both Harsco Environmental and Clean Earth, while allowing time to stabilize the rail business and better position that business for sale. We already have actions underway to support these initiatives and as a result expect to yield EBITDA in excess of $400,000,000 in 2027 with free cash flow of more than $150,000,000 and net leverage of 2.5 times. This will also provide greater strategic flexibility and optionality for value creation in the future. We expect to steadily improve free cash flow each year. Speaker 200:08:42Cash flow generation has been reduced the past few years by the investments made in our rail business to execute 3 long term contracts in Europe. This investment will decline next year and then these contracts become a source of cash in the later half of twenty twenty six and into 2027. In 2025, we expect free cash flow of between $40,000,000 $60,000,000 due to improved performance in rail, continued strong cash flow in HE and CE and lower interest expense and pension contributions. I will now turn the call over to Tom. Speaker 300:09:22Thanks, Nick, and good morning, everyone. Overall, Q3 was a challenging quarter due to market related customer, supply chain and weather related pressures, particularly for Hosco Environmental and Rail. The Enviry team responded to these challenges by pushing hard to close the quarter on a positive note and I'm pleased that we delivered adjusted EBITDA within our guidance range for the quarter. Now let me comment on our Q3 performance further starting on Slide 4. In the Q3, revenues totaled $574,000,000 down 4% on a reported basis. Speaker 300:10:03Revenues increased modestly on an organic basis excluding the impacts of FX translation, recent divestitures and a $5,000,000 ETO related adjustment in rail. Adjusted EBITDA was $85,000,000 an improvement of 3% year over year as reported and little changed from our multi year high in the second quarter. FX translation and divestitures impacted our EBITDA growth by roughly 5%. Our year over year earnings growth was driven by Clean Earth, which had another fantastic quarter with record quarterly earnings and margins. Relative to guidance, rail performance was below our expectations and was impacted by shipment and supply chain delays for standard equipment, lower aftermarket sales in Asia and lower revenue recognition and profits on certain contracts due to operational bottlenecks and higher costs. Speaker 300:11:04Hurricane Helane right at the end of the quarter also impacted deliveries. HE results were also slightly below our internal expectations where we saw lower service volumes driven by our customers curtailing or slowing production in recent months, as well as delays starting new sites and contract exit costs. These weaknesses in performance were offset by Clean Earth, where we benefited from pricing, efficiency initiatives and better overall cost performance. Our adjusted diluted loss per share was $0.01 for the quarter. Adjusted free cash flow for the quarter was a deficit of $34,000,000 versus a deficit of $7,000,000 in the prior year quarter, with the change due to the timing of working capital and capital spending. Speaker 300:11:56Free cash flow was anticipated to be negative in the quarter, although it was below our expectations mainly due to the cash impacts of the shipment and production delays in rail. We saw significant cash usage this quarter in rail, where our ETO contracts continue to consume cash. Otherwise, HE and CE generated approximately $50,000,000 of free cash flow in the quarter and this offset our interest costs and other corporate items. Our covenant leverage ratio remains just below 4 times and our net debt was stable in the quarter. The successful sale of Reed Minerals offset the impact of the negative cash flow on our total debt. Speaker 300:12:40Lastly, before moving on to segment results, I was very pleased that we extended our revolver and accounts receivable facilities at favorable terms. We will continue to have a proactive approach to deal with upcoming coming debt maturities. And with these two extensions, the next major maturity is not until 2027. Also, since the quarter ended, we entered into an additional floating to fixed interest rate swap for a portion of our term loan. The terms were attractive and I view the swap as prudent risk management against future rate movements. Speaker 300:13:19Please turn to Slide 5 and our HE segment. Segment revenues totaled $279,000,000 down 2% compared with the prior year quarter, net of a $6,000,000 FX translation impact and a $15,000,000 impact from divestitures. Adjusting for the FX impact and the sale of Performix and REIT Minerals, organic growth for HE was 5%. Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter totaled $53,000,000 which was modestly lower versus the prior year and again is net of FX and divestitures. Compared with last year, FX, divestitures and contract exits offset the favorable impact of price, growth investments and higher service levels in HE. Speaker 300:14:10HE's EBITDA margin was 19% in the quarter. Next, please turn to Slide 6 to discuss Clean Earth. For the quarter, revenues totaled $237,000,000 down 1% versus the prior year with lower industrial and soil volumes mostly offset by higher prices. Hazardous materials revenues totaled $195,000,000 while soil dredge revenues were $42,000,000 for the quarter. Meanwhile, adjusted EBITDA increased 23% to reach $42,000,000 and CE's quarterly margin increased to 17.5%. Speaker 300:14:51Both of these KPIs are again quarterly records for CE. The increase in EBITDA was driven by price, lower incentive compensation and lower bad debt expenses as well as lower transportation and disposal costs that are the result of our efficiency initiatives. Now please turn to Slide 7 and our rail business. Rail revenues totaled $58,000,000 and its adjusted EBITDA was a loss of $2,000,000 in the 2nd quarter. Compared with the 2023 quarter, the EBITDA change is the result of lower aftermarket and contracted services volumes, as well as lower revenues from various other equipment contracts. Speaker 300:15:37We also incurred an FX loss of approximately $1,000,000 linked to the Turkish lira. Contributions from standard equipment were modestly higher year on year. Both revenues and adjusted EBITDA in the quarter were impacted by Hurricane Helane right at the end of the quarter, which resulted in certain shipments being pushed to the 4th quarter. I'll note that the adjusted EBITDA for the quarter excludes forward loss adjustments of $10,500,000 related to our 3 large ETO contracts in Europe. The impact of these adjustments on revenues was approximately a reduction of $5,000,000 in the quarter, which skews the year on year revenue comparison. Speaker 300:16:22As mentioned earlier, supply chain issues and operational bottlenecks continue to hamper rail. Fixing these issues is a top priority for the company and we have taken action to strengthen the rail team and have launched several initiatives to improve these areas of the business. Another key priority is of course to continue to drive the completion of the 3 large ETO contracts. As I mentioned earlier, the business saw significant cash usage in the quarter stemming from delayed deliveries to customers in the base business and on certain contracts. We expect the business to be in a net cash use position for the full year in the $40,000,000 range. Speaker 300:17:05We continue to see strong demand in our base business for equipment and services and our pipeline is strong. Year to date bookings Speaker 200:17:13were over Speaker 300:17:13$140,000,000 and in line with our expectations. As we said at our Investor Day in June, rail is a valuable part of Rail is a valuable part of our portfolio, which we expect will deliver steady earnings and cash flow in the future. Now let me turn to our updated 2024 outlook on Slide 8. Enviry's full year adjusted EBITDA is now expected to be within a range of $317,000,000 to $327,000,000 which is up 5% versus 2023. The midpoint of this range is down just over $10,000,000 from our prior guidance with the lower range reflecting tempered expectations for HE and Rail, partially offset by a raised outlook for Clean Earth. Speaker 300:18:03For HE, the change reflects the impact of the REIT divestiture. It also reflects lower service levels in HE as a result of reduced production and some curtailments by our steel customers in Q4. This expectation reflects recent outlooks provided by the World Steel Association and others. September steel production among our customers was the lowest of the year and we expect these production levels to be maintained for the remainder of the year. For rail, the change relates to some shipments being pushed into 2025 and our latest assessment of our performance on certain contracts. Speaker 300:18:43Our detailed segment outlook can be found in the appendix of the presentation. The other item I would mention is free cash flow, where our outlook has also changed. Lower cash generation for the year reflects the reduced expectations for earnings and is also partially timing related. It reflects slower cash receipts from China, which we have flagged to you in the past and the push out of some milestone receipts in rail. The midpoint of our free cash flow guidance is now negative $10,000,000 This total includes cash usage at Rail, which I just mentioned a moment ago. Speaker 300:19:22Otherwise, we expect HE and CE will together generate approximately $200,000,000 of cash this year, which we've said previously and which we find compelling. And this almost fully offsets our interest and other cash outflows. To be clear, we are disappointed in our 2025 cash performance. As Nick said, we do expect a positive inflection in our cash generation in 2025. Our interest burden should decline as should our pension contributions. Speaker 300:19:54And most importantly, we expect rail cash performance to improve as we make progress on our large ATO contracts. Let me conclude on Slide 9 with our Q4 guidance. Q4 adjusted EBITDA is expected to range from $68,000,000 to $78,000,000 And I would note that Q4 is traditionally a seasonally weak quarter for both HE and CE. Relative to 2023, HE Environmental EBITDA, hospital environmental EBITDA is anticipated to be lower due to FX translation impacts, contract exits, divestitures and a less favorable services mix. Clean Earth EBITDA is expected to be above the prior year quarter with higher prices, cost improvements and lower incentive comp expected to drive earnings growth. Speaker 300:20:47And rail EBITDA is expected to increase modestly year on year due to higher volumes and improved mix and certain contract adjustments in the prior year quarter. Lastly, on Q4, I would note that free cash flow is anticipated to strengthen from Q3 as is normally the case. Cash receipt delays from Q3 will also help cash performance in the current quarter. Thanks. And I'll now hand the call back to the operator for Q and A. Operator00:21:17We will now begin the question and answer session. The first question comes from Rob Brown from Lake Street Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Speaker 400:21:43Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I guess first question is on the ability to kind of deal with lower volumes in HE. How much of that is a fixed cost business? And how much flexibility do you have there to sort of lower costs with lower activity? Speaker 200:21:58Yes. Hi, Rob, it's Nick. As you know, we have minimum billings and fixed fees, which provide a good bit Speaker 300:22:05of protection against volume declines Speaker 200:22:05below a certain threshold. But until that threshold is reached, there is some impact. And that's what we saw during the quarter and expect to see again in Q4. And then I think Tom and I both mentioned that there have been a few sites that have just simply shut down. And so that the impact of that is in our Q3 results and guidance as well. Speaker 400:22:43Okay, great. Thank you. And then on the volume growth in Clean Earth, are you seeing that continue to grow nicely and where are you seeing the strength there? Just some color on the volume growth would be helpful. Thank Speaker 200:22:57you. Yes. In general, the Healthcare segment has been healthy for us, seeing volume growth there. In retail, there's been a healthy amount of churn. And so that's been flat to soft. Speaker 200:23:14And then the weakest of the 3 has been the so called industrial or manufacturing sector where we've seen softness. Speaker 400:23:30Okay. Thank you. I'll turn it over. Operator00:23:33The next question comes from Larry Solow from CJS Securities. Please go ahead. Speaker 500:23:42Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions and my condolences as well to Mauro Curry's family. I guess first question just on the environmental piece. Sounds like we're obviously in a period of declining global volumes. Just curious, what's like your contract win net loss rate? Speaker 500:24:02I know you mentioned some contract losses or you walked away from some contracts. Just trying to figure out your ability to sort of grow revenue in this environment. I know you mentioned a new contract or you had a press release, Nucor Steel, just a couple of weeks ago. So just curious if you can give us any color on from a global level, high level, your net win rate and does this new contract have any is that meaningful? Speaker 200:24:31Yes. I'll respond to that in a second, Larry. But let me first just emphasize what I think the audience knows here, which is that the best way to look at the performance of HE is on an EBITDA minus CapEx business. So we've softened our guidance on EBITDA, but the impact on EBITDA minus CapEx is much less. This business is much more stable than it has been and at a higher level of cash flow than we've seen for a long time. Speaker 200:25:04And so we are able to mitigate some of these volume declines with efficiency on capital spending. And we've seen that in the Q3 and will in Q4 and into next year as well. And in terms of revenue growth, we've commented before and it certainly remains the case that we have a extraordinarily healthy and lengthy pipeline of growth opportunities in HE. Our competitive position is quite strong and since we limit our investment in growth contracts, we're really only selecting the best opportunities that tend to be in growth markets. The terms and conditions are the best and of course the returns are higher and the risk is lower. Speaker 200:26:01And we have a number of those contracts that are ramping up now. We'll see the benefit of those in 2025. And that will serve to mitigate some of the short term impact that we're seeing in some of our existing sites. But in general, there's a significant geographic shift underway in our portfolio now away from the UK and Europe and towards growth markets, India, Turkey, Mexico, I think increasingly the U. S. Speaker 200:26:37Given the protections we have here against low cost imports. But this takes time, right? We've seen some of that this year. We'll see more of it next year. But in general, this geographic shift is really going to be a tailwind for Speaker 500:26:56the business. Okay. I appreciate the color. And on the positive side, Clean Earth is obviously relatively flat revenue and volumes had a very nice quarter on the margin side. I think you were up even sequentially like 150 bps. Speaker 500:27:15I know you've done a lot of initiatives over the last 2 years, Nick, pricing and efficiencies. I think you had updated the sort of 3 year target to 2017 around where we are today on the margin. Is there more room for upside? Pretty impressive too this quarter. Anything unusual to kind of drive further increases in margin on flat revenue? Speaker 200:27:40I would say nothing unusual. As you know, the 1st 4 years of Clean Earth, we focused an awful lot on efficiency and cost and pricing and leadership and structure and so forth. And we're now putting a significant effort behind driving volume growth with new leadership, new focus, kind of enhanced value propositions and so forth. So I think as we look forward, we'll start to see more volume growth drive margin expansion and EBITDA and top line growth in that business. Speaker 300:28:22Okay. Speaker 500:28:22And then just last question on the cash flow or the free cash flow. I appreciate sort of the early look out to next year. If you look at the midpoint from this year to next year, it's a nice significant jump, I think like $60,000,000 I know rail is losing $40,000,000 this year. Is the biggest piece of kind of that flip going to be that rail number goes from $40,000,000 to maybe closer to positive next year? Just trying to get a little better handle on that. Speaker 500:28:51Thanks. Speaker 300:28:53Yes. Look, we obviously will comment in more detail. We're going to go through our annual planning cycle here momentarily and then we'll obviously give you guys guidance in the early part. But I think of it in maybe 4 distinct pieces, right? So pensions contributions, cash pensions contributions, we expect that to be down significantly year on year as we go into 2025. Speaker 300:29:26Nick mentioned that our pension fund in the UK is now at a fully funded status. We still got to do a little bit of work to make it happen, but I expect those contributions to be down significantly. Interest costs, yet needless to say, we expect interest payments to be down somewhat year on year. So those are 2 big chunks that already have sort of give us some pathway there. And indeed on rail, we expect the rail cash performance. Speaker 300:29:56As I said in my comments this year, rail is in a cash use position in the $40,000,000 range, right, so negative $40,000,000 I do expect that to improve significantly. I can't say now it's a little too early, if you don't mind, Larry, and I'll give you more details, but whether it flips into positive, but certainly expect it to be much, much better. And then of course, the HE and CE businesses, we expect to keep chugging along and those will deliver a little bit extra cash as well. Speaker 500:30:29Great. And I appreciate that color, Tom. Thank you, everyone. Speaker 200:30:32I think one important point just to add on these long term contracts in Rail. With the exception of the 2 large contracts in the UK and Germany, the others all flip to positive cash flow when they end next year. So that will significantly reduce the net cash outflow in rail next year. We've been investing the past couple of years about 50,000,000 dollars per year in cash in those contracts. And so again, when you start to look forward thinking our long range plan, when that $50,000,000 is over and we're generating $30,000,000 to $40,000,000 of cash flow in rail per year, plus the cash flow in HE and CE, which should continue to be strong and interest comes down and pension. Speaker 200:31:31Now that's why we're pretty confident we're going to get to this $150,000,000 plus range per year in free cash flow in a couple of Speaker 500:31:40years. Got it. Thanks, Nick. Operator00:31:49The next question comes from Brian Butler from Stifel. Please go ahead. Speaker 600:31:55Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Speaker 400:31:58Hi, Brian. Speaker 300:31:58Hi, Brian. Speaker 600:32:00On the rail piece, can we just go back to those ETO contracts that are kind of you've been investing in and kind of you're getting the positive? What still can you remind everyone the timeline and how much cash should those ultimately generate over the next 3, 4 years as they kind of rent as they finish up? Because you really should have a pretty positive inflow after multiple years of investments in it? Speaker 200:32:27Yes, no doubt. So next year on the smaller ETO contracts, I think that number is $20,000,000 to $25,000,000 of positive next year. That'll be offset by continued investment into the contracts in the UK and in Germany. But those two contracts, if you look to the latter part of 2026 into 2027, 2028, collectively those should throw off $75,000,000 or so of free cash flow. Not per share. Speaker 200:33:02And my comment a minute ago was when we're on the other side of those, right. We'll still swing from kind of minus $50,000,000 what we've been seeing in rail the past couple of years to kind of a plus 20 or 30, even not accounting for the positive cash flow at the end of those 2 large contracts. Speaker 600:33:26Okay. And then on the hurricane activity that got kind of pushed, can you give some color on the sales and EBITDA that ultimately got moved? And is there more is there a tailwind at some point on the cleanup side? Speaker 200:33:41Yes. I think there were 3 or 4 machines that ultimately did not make it out the door or could not be picked up by the shipping the transportation company. And I'm going to say the EBITDA impact of that was Speaker 300:33:58a few million dollars 1,000,000 to $2,000,000 Speaker 600:34:03Okay. And then I guess last one, when you think of clean earth kind of looking into 2025, I mean it still sounds like it's pretty bullish and you had the industrial softness. Maybe your thoughts on, again, what that could look like? I mean, I'm not looking for guidance per se, but the momentum that you have, is that can that be carried into 2025? Speaker 200:34:29Yes, we certainly think so. And then adding to that would be an expectation for volume growth next year, which we largely did not have this year. Speaker 600:34:43Okay, great. Thanks for taking the questions. Operator00:34:52The next question comes from Devin Dodge from BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Speaker 700:34:58Yes, thanks. Good morning. So maybe I just wanted to come back to the Rail division, another adjustment to the forward loss provision to those ETO contracts. Just can you provide some color behind the drivers of this? It's just it's a provision that's going up. Speaker 700:35:16I'm just trying to understand if things are getting worse or was there an assumption that things will get better in that, let's say, coming out of Q2? Speaker 300:35:25Devin, yes, I'll try and answer that. It's Tom here. Look, these are very complex projects, right? And we're making engines of vehicles that no one's made before. They're highly engineered, highly customized for each customer according to the design specs that they wanted us to produce. Speaker 300:35:51And they're long term in nature as well. And so the ability of any company to be honest to be able to very, very accurately to the nearest million estimate the costs is challenging. And so as we get closer to the endpoints, we're getting better visibility sometimes to what it's really going to take to make these. And so there is a constant fine tuning. Now we do have puts and calls, right. Speaker 300:36:20So sometimes we are able to reduce what we think it's going to cost. Sometimes it does cost more. There are also changes in the supply chain. There may be price increases, etcetera. So we are managing all of these things. Speaker 300:36:35There's a ton of focus as you can imagine to try and do that. But occasionally, we do have to acknowledge from an accounting point of view that the cost is going to be more and that's what drove those adjustments. Speaker 700:36:54Okay. Speaker 300:36:54So it's not yes, it's not overly optimistic expectations or whatever. It's just to me, it's just a natural part of this process given that you have these very long standing contracts and you're discovering more as you go along. Speaker 700:37:16Okay, fair enough. Okay. And then maybe just another question likely for you, Tom, just something that stands out on the cash flow statement. So non controlling interests in the financial cash flows, it seems like dividends are outpacing earnings contributions pretty meaningfully this year. Just can you remind us what assets they relate to and why the gap between dividends and earnings has been more pronounced this year? Speaker 300:37:41Yes, it's probably just timing, right? So you've got accumulated earnings over the years and at some point we trip into a need to distribute some of those. The main joint ventures that I can think about, of course, we have some in China, as you know, and then in Italy. I look around to my colleagues to see if there's anything else that you would tell us. So I think those are the main. Speaker 300:38:04So it's all HE related and what we needed to do in order to get into some of those businesses. But it's timing. Okay. Thanks Speaker 700:38:18for that. I'll turn it over. Operator00:38:31This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Dave Martin for closing remarks. Speaker 100:38:40Thank you for joining us this morning. Feel free to contact me with any follow-up questions. And as always, we appreciate your interest in the company and look forward to speaking with many of you in the coming weeks. Take care. Operator00:38:54The conference has now concluded. 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