Angi Q3 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
November 12, 2024

There are 14 speakers on the call.

Operator

Welcome to the IAC and ANGI Third Quarter 20 24 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in a listen only mode. After introductory remarks, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Please note this event is being recorded. I I'd now like to turn the conference over to Mr.

Operator

Christopher Halpin, Executive Vice President, CFO and COO of IAC. Please go ahead, sir.

Speaker 1

Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone. Christopher Halpin here, and welcome to the IAC and ANGI, Inc. 3rd quarter earnings call. Joining me today are Joey Levin, CEO of IAC and Chairman of ANGI, Inc.

Speaker 1

And Jeff Kipp, CEO of ANGI, Inc. Similar to last quarter, supplemental to our quarterly earnings releases, IAC has also published its quarterly shareholder letter, which is currently available on the Investor Relations section of IAC's website. We will not be reading the shareholder letter on this call. I will shortly turn the call over to Joey to make a few brief introductory remarks, and we'll then open it up for Q and A. Before that, I'd like to remind you that during this presentation, we may make certain statements that considered forward looking under the federal securities laws.

Speaker 1

These forward looking statements may include statements related to our outlook, strategy and future performance and are based on our current expectations and on information currently available to us. Actual outcomes and results may differ materially from the future results expressed or implied in these statements due to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those contained in our most recent quarterly report on Form 10 Q and our most recent annual report on Form 10 ks and in the subsequent reports that we file with the SEC. The information provided on this conference call should be considered in light of such risks. We'll also discuss certain non GAAP measures, which as a reminder, include adjusted EBITDA, which we'll refer to today as EBITDA for simplicity during the call. I'll also refer you to our earnings releases, the IAC shareholder letter, our public filings with the SEC, and again, to the Investor Relations section of our respective websites for all comparable GAAP measures and full reconciliations for all material non GAAP measures.

Speaker 1

And now, I'll turn it

Speaker 2

over to Joey. Thanks, Chris. Obviously, the big news today is that we are contemplating a spin of ANGI, which if we complete it would be the 1st spin out of IAC in 4 years and obviously join a very long line of spin offs out of this company. Besides creating 2 separate focused companies, this move would allow ANGI to stand on its own, have a more liquid currency and a standalone ambitious strategy, whether that's M and A or capital allocation generally. The key to making this possible is the fact that profits and cash flow in the business have improved meaningfully.

Speaker 2

Consumer experience has improved meaningfully and jobs done well has become a true driving obsession of everybody in the business. And Jeff and I believe strongly the business has revenue growth again in its future and profitability will be stable from here. So we're in a position to do this, a strong position to do this and grateful for the opportunity to have another spin out of IAC. I'm sure we'll have a lot of questions on all of this and IAC's performance generally, which we think was very good this quarter and people worked hard. We're very proud of the work everybody did this quarter.

Speaker 2

And so let's get to the questions to talk about it.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Operator, first question, please.

Operator

Our first question will come from Cory Carpenter with JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Speaker 3

Thank you and good morning. Joey, could you expand on why now on exploring the ANGI spend? And then second question related to that, which you just mentioned, what's giving you the confidence in ANGI returning to revenue growth? And is there any impact you're expecting next year from the FCC's 101 consent rule? Thank you.

Speaker 2

Yes. I'll take the first one and I'll let Jeff do the second, but I can weigh in there too. The answer to why now is, as we've said through many spins we've done in the past, there's not a particular formula or a specific kind of automatic trigger on these things. It's a confluence of things. And one is the business being spun and the other is the impact on what's left behind.

Speaker 2

And in the case of ANGI, the business being spun, the key is, is it stand alone, strong and healthy and capable of being on its own in the public markets. And business is now comfortably profitable, comfortably generating cash flow. And we think on the right path strategically, it has all the pieces it needs to really deliver for the consumer. And there's a lot of execution ahead in terms of product, but there's also a lot of execution behind it in terms of product and seeing that come through on things like retention and customer satisfaction. So we like the path that ANGI is on right now and like Jeff's ability to execute against that.

Speaker 2

There also is benefits to a more liquid currency. There's more direct investor access. There is the ability to use that liquid currency whether it's for M and A or compensation. I think being spun off and standalone those things can help. And of course this is also a tax efficient concept in the sense that the spin if we do it would be tax free.

Speaker 2

And the other piece is it allows IAC to focus. We've really been on a campaign of slimming down focusing and we think that that can allow us to do fewer things better. And that's what we plan to do with ISA.

Speaker 4

In terms of our confidence in the stability and future growth of business, I'm going to start by going back 2 years to when Joey took over the business with tremendous opportunity to improve at the time. Joey and the team committed to improving the quality of the business, the customer experience and returning the business to profitable growth. We've moved a fair amount of lower quality traffic off the ship. We removed some of our lower quality third party traffic and we moved a significant portion of the business to consumer choice, which I'll come back to in a minute. The result has been that our jobs done well rate has grown about 30% in the last year.

Speaker 4

Pro retention has risen materially each quarter and we've referenced that. Homeowner MBS year over year is up by almost 60% in this last quarter. So those are big markers and a tribute to what's been accomplished to drive the long term experience and growth of the business. We've also taken our unit economics apart and put them back together. We've rightsized our sales effort to drive long term ROI and we've reengineered our paid marketing to drive material profit growth despite revenue declines.

Speaker 4

You can see it in the near 30% paid channel profit growth in the last quarter. We delivered profit growth in 2023 despite revenue declines. We're doing so again this year and we'll hold our profit again next year as Joey referenced. As we make the next major investment in our customer experience by moving really the vast majority of our traffic that comes through our core customer journey to consumer choice. Again, I'll come back to this in a minute.

Speaker 4

We've really been progressively moving our business towards consumer choice, because we believe it's the best way to drive the customer Northstar experience of jobs done well in this marketplace. You may recall that our European business, which has an estimated jobs done well rate materially higher than ANGI U. S, operates completely on a consumer choice model. We're accelerating our move in the U. S.

Speaker 4

Consistent with both the European model and the FCC order related to the TCPA that I think most of you are aware of. And we're thus taking one last big step in our 2 year path of effectively reducing revenue, but making material improvements in the customer experience and the long term trajectory of the business. For those of you who aren't familiar with the FCC order, the portion of the order I'm referring to, it requires a business contacting a customer and using auto dialer technology to have 1 to 1 consent from the customer to do so. The order is going to go into effect in January 2025, and we'll be there on our move to consumer choice as well. We really welcome this change, although we do expect some volatility in the first half of next year, and we don't know precisely how the impact is going to play out.

Speaker 4

But with the size and quality of our network and our ability to provide deep liquidity and one to one consent across that network, we believe we're uniquely positioned to benefit from the new landscape that's going to emerge post order. We do think that the order will have the greatest impact on our 3rd party channel. However, we also expect to move to yield to move to yield incremental real leaps and jobs done well NPS and retention and put us squarely where we want to be with our customer experience. It is going to mean another bump down in revenue. I would say, we expect our Q1 to be down about as much as the on what on what we know and is in front of us.

Speaker 4

We have confidence in that. In terms of profitability, we fully expect to hold our profit in 2025. Joey referenced this, I referenced it. Given everything I've already mentioned, I think the Q1 of 2025 will probably bump down from Q4 of 2024 similar to the bump down from Q4 'twenty three to Q1 of 'twenty four, but then we'll improve sequentially each quarter along with the revenue after that. All this together gives us real confidence in the financial trajectory of the business and our return to growth.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Operator, next question?

Operator

Next question will come from Jason Helfstein with Oppenheimer. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Hi, thanks. Just one question and then a housekeeping question. So just elaborate on that, I guess, for Joey and Jeff. I mean, many of us have covered Angie, HomeAdvisor, Yelp for a long time. There's always been this big promise of a TAM you talked about in the letter.

Speaker 5

And it's historically been hard to unlock, whether it's just word-of-mouth, Google, social media, fully appreciate the improvement in efficiency in the business that you've been able to do. But I guess why should investors get excited now that you finally figured out how to kind of really unlock the growth that has been elusive for kind of 15 years basically in this vertical? And then a follow-up, just remind us the basis of the MGM stock and what's the tax treatment if you were to potentially sell that stake? Thank you.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Jason. Chris will take the second one. But the first one is the fundamental difference right now, which hopefully you've been hearing for a while and we see and have shared a lot of the underlying metrics of this is a absolute obsession with customer experience. The folks who have succeeded at disintermediating Google, which is obviously a very tall order or going after things like word-of-mouth are the ones who have absolute customer obsession in getting jobs done well. And I think that change in our mantra is what's going to drive both pro retention that changes the economics of the business and allows us to reinvest in compelling ways and homeowner repeat rate and homeowner satisfaction, which allows us to reinvest in compelling ways.

Speaker 2

That is the difference and that we're doing on a brand that is entirely dedicated to home services. That doesn't really exist in the market and that I think besides with us. And I think throughout the past, there has been probably an overemphasis on more shorter term results and less on the longer term investment of an obsessive customer experience. And that's what we've put in place. That's what we continue to put in place.

Speaker 2

And if we do continue to do that, I think that we can build a compelling direct brand with homeowners that goes after those other portions of the market that you mentioned. You want to add to that, Joe?

Speaker 1

No, I completely agree. And then, Jason, on the MGM stake, we currently hold 64,700,000 shares of MGM. Our basis is just below $1,300,000,000 IAC has net operating losses in excess of $1,000,000,000 It was $1,400,000,000 as of end of last year. We'll probably use where we know we'll use some this year to offset profits. But at the current trading levels of about $1,100,000,000 gain, we've got more than enough NOLs to offset.

Speaker 1

So we think about it and you could see it in the sum of the parts as the market value of the shares is the appropriate way to think about our holdings because we can offset any taxable gain right now. Thank you. Operator, next question?

Operator

Next question will come from John Blackledge with TD Cowen. Please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Great. Thanks. On DTM Digital revenue, can you talk about the drivers of the 3Q overall revenue outperformance, notably ad revenue accelerating at a faster pace than expected, while performance marketing and licensing were a bit lower? And then for 4Q, can you unpack the mid to high single digit revenue guide relative to our we had kind of like low double digit revenue growth in 4Q? And then as we look into 2025, just any color there on DD on digital top line growth?

Speaker 6

Thank you.

Speaker 1

Sure, John. Thank you. You. 3rd quarter digital performance was excellent across both traffic and monetization. Digital advertising revenues grew 26%, led by 14% growth in core sessions, And we're happy to see overall sessions were positive for the quarter for the first time in a while.

Speaker 1

Traffic growth was particularly strong in our entertainment, food properties, and we continue to see momentum there. Digital sorry, direct ad sales were strong as well, perhaps even aided a little bit by advertisers pulling some spend forward into September ahead of the election. And then programmatic was superb with rates up 30% plus in the quarter. Performance marketing disappointed at down 7% with continued weakness in financial services such as insurance and brokerage. That segment has improved this quarter and we expect growth in the Q4 across performance marketing broadly.

Speaker 1

And then licensing continues to be solid driven by both our OpenAI partnership and Apple News up 17% in the quarter. So overall, it added up to 16% digital revenue growth, our best quarter since we acquired Meredith. And we were also happy with how that flowed down to adjusted EBITDA. We would highlight aggregate adjusted EBITDA only grew slightly in

Speaker 2

the 3rd quarter,

Speaker 1

but that growth rate is dragged down by an $8,000,000 favorable tax release related to the Meredith acquisition that benefited our corporate expense a year ago. Digital EBITDA grew 28% this past quarter and incremental margins were 42%. When you look at 4th quarter, October the month was softer on both advertising spend and traffic than we expected, resulting in digital revenues were only up 7% in October for the month. We knew there'd be some challenges with the election, but consumer distraction and advertiser caution exceeded our expectations. We note for those who are newer to the story that Dotdash Meredith does not sell digital inventory on its titles to political advertisers.

Speaker 1

So there's no benefit from the election and just headwinds for the properties. Good news for DDM was the election was rapidly decided and things are shaping up to come in during November December with advertisers steadily returning. We know Thanksgiving is a week later, so things are tighter in the overall holiday shopping period. DDM is pushing hard across its properties to drive both advertising and performance marketing, but we thought it prudent to guide 4th quarter digital revenue to the mid to high single digits at this point. Now looking to 2025 and beyond, we are still confident in 10% digital revenue growth as the baseline for the DDM business.

Speaker 1

That will be, as we've said before, driven roughly half by traffic growth and half by improved monetization. And I'm sure we'll talk about the Cipher, which is a key advantaged tool for us in monetization. Individual quarters may bounce around above and below that 10% target, but we still have confidence in that as the long term driver of the business. Thanks, John. Operator, next question?

Operator

The next question will come from Eric Sheridan with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Thanks so much for taking my questions. 2 if I could. 1st, with the decision to break out Care as a reported segment, I want to know if you could hit the refresh on where that business sits today and how you're thinking about the market opportunity set ahead for care in the years to come? And then secondarily, Joey, there were sort of some crosscurrents in the letter, the depressed valuation of IEC, ex Angie and MGM, but you also talked about the M and A environment being challenging from a valuation standpoint. Any reset or refreshed view on capital allocation broadly against what you see as the opportunity set?

Speaker 7

Thanks so much.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Eric. So on Care, we've been thinking about this for a while and certainly with or especially with an ANGI spin, if that happens, breaking out Care as its own segment makes a lot of sense. It's a scale business, $365,000,000 of revenue and $45,000,000 of adjusted EBITDA over the last 12 months. I think by far category leader in terms of online digital marketplace, bigger in terms of brand, bigger in terms of audience, bigger in terms of providers and families by an order of magnitude relative to any competitor that we're aware of. And so that is the basis of, I think, a lot of potential in the business.

Speaker 2

When we look at the opportunity, if you kind of just to put some numbers around it near term or even longer term, the site receives 7,000 to 10000 job posts a day and 70,000 to 100,000 applications a day. And we're only converting a very small fraction of that into paying customers. And what that tells you is we have the liquidity both on the supply side and on the demand side. And I think we have the potential and our new CEO has been there about a year, Brad Wilson has been very focused on this. We have the potential to improve the product and customer experience, especially using tools like AI and machine learning to get those matches better, to use conversational UIs to get better information out of both the family and the caregiver to make those matches better.

Speaker 2

And if we can do that, we think we can drive conversion and also do a better job optimizing pricing and packaging there.

Speaker 1

The other

Speaker 2

thing that's been a nice tailwind for the business, I think COVID was some volatility in the business. It might have brought some demand forward in terms of in home child care and then that's a headwind as people move back to out of home child care. But one of the things that I think has been a tailwind and will continue to be a tailwind for the business is the enterprise portion of the business where enterprises are increasingly taking on the responsibility for their employees to deliver care, childcare, senior care in the same way or similar ways to they've historically taken on responsibility for healthcare. I think that's a trend that's only going in one direction for a very long time and CARE should be a beneficiary of that has been and should continue to be a beneficiary of that if we continue to execute there. The other thing that is embedded in care that is currently underappreciated is beyond child care, things like senior care, adult care and pet care, relatively small pieces of the business today and sort of in the background relative to child care.

Speaker 2

But we can start to innovate on those products and we think serve those markets better. And we've got some things coming out in particular for senior care shortly, which we hope will start to address that. So we're excited about the potential in that business and Brad Wilson, new CEO has been executing against that and we'll see how that goes. In terms of capital allocation, Eric, we are nothing has materially changed. We've had a discount for a while, and we have not been active in the M and A market.

Speaker 2

We've been more accumulating cash than spending cash. And I think that's okay until we find opportunities that meet a very high bar. Everything is still on the table for IAC as it relates to capital allocation. We talked last quarter Barry's preference as it relates to share repurchases, But everything is on the table and will continue to be on the table for capital allocation. And in the meantime, the cash balance grows.

Speaker 8

Great. Thank you.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Eric. Operator, next question?

Operator

The next question will come from Ross Sandler with Barclays. Please go ahead.

Speaker 9

Great. Back to DDM. Guys, on DECIPHER, there's a bunch of new information in the letter about how that's driving some improvement. Could you just talk about how the approach has changed with OpenAI now powering some of the number crunching at Decipher and how quickly you can roll that out to all your advertisers? And then more broadly, as we look out over the next like 5 years, how can you take this technology to off DDM inventory and how big of an opportunity might that be?

Speaker 9

Thanks a lot.

Speaker 2

Yes. It's a really important question. I'll start and then I'll turn it to Chris. But I wouldn't say that the approach has changed with respect to DECYFIR. I'd say what we added to DECYFIR with the OpenAI integration is the ability, as you referenced, to start to address the off DDM inventory.

Speaker 2

So we've for a little while now have had DDMs inventory mapped nicely to outperform generally the market on intent given the nature of DDM's inventory and the data we have that the unique inventory and the unique data that we have surrounding that. And that's driven performance, that's driven outsized growth in CPMs and some of the stats we talked about, about how Decipher advertisers perform relative to non Decipher advertisers. What the OpenAI integration did was take that same mapping that we have inside of DDM and map that to, I think, something like 30,000,000 more URLs or somewhere in that neighborhood. And so now we have the ability, whether through partnership or we can just buy some of that inventory to sell that inventory to advertisers to increase the size of their buy with us and to deliver larger scale packages. And that's something that we think we can deliver in 2025 when we expect to be a driver of growth unbound by the size of BDM's existing inventory.

Speaker 2

Do you want to add to that?

Speaker 1

Yes. I think the only additional element there when you think about 3rd party properties, you've got the demand in the supply side. Right now of DDMs existing inventory, Decipher can address 100% of our supply. We significantly increased the supply through the capabilities that OpenAI has brought to the product to score and then we can now transact across that those incremental 30,000,000 websites that are in categories similar to DDM. So the effective supply that we can decipherize will only increase.

Speaker 1

On the demand side, and this Joey talked about this in the letter. Right now, in terms of how our advertisers and agencies buy, only about half of the $640,000,000 of digital advertising revenue is going through demand channels that were Decipher is addressable. So as of right now, we demand that comes through essentially forward contracted orders from advertisers and agencies, Decipher can be utilized. Right now, about half the revenue is coming from Decipher inclusive campaigns and about half non Decipher inclusive campaigns. We said in the letter, the former where Decipher is an element are growing 25% and the latter are growing about 5%.

Speaker 1

So you can see the growth driver that Decipher is. But that's only on about half of our digital advertising demand. The other half are either direct programmatic orders essentially to Dotdash Meredith or programmatic fully programmatic orders across open ordering. The roadmap for Decipher is to make Decipher applicable to those channels and really increase the addressable portion of the demand. So it's all in the roadmap and OpenAI was a key step and we continue to grow the supply side and then we also think we'll continue to grow the addressable demand side through product investment and development.

Speaker 1

Thank you, Ross. Operator, next question?

Operator

The next question will come from Dan Kornos with The Benchmark Company. Please go ahead.

Speaker 10

Yes. Thanks. Good morning. Chris, can I just follow-up on that? Are you fully as fully distributed as you want to be within the ad tech ecosystem?

Speaker 10

And do you need to make any incremental investment? We obviously know it's a pretty heavy lift to get Meredith up to Dotdash standards, but are there is there any more lift you need to do in order to achieve kind of full the cyber coverage on programmatic? And then, Joey, obviously, we've been here forever on this. You used the word, I guess, well, the word deconglomeration. Is that a long term philosophical change for you in terms

Speaker 3

of M and A companies in

Speaker 10

the portfolio, time to spin, increased focus? And what does it mean for things like stakes in Turo and MGM? Thanks.

Speaker 2

No, it's not Dan, it's a good question. It's not a long term change. We've always been deconglomerating and re conglomerating. I think right now, we're focused on we want to focus on fewer things, simplifying and executing strongly against those things. And that's our near term priority.

Speaker 2

It is possible in the future that we add new legs to IAC, but for the moment, we are focused on slimming and executing. But we have a large cash balance, obviously. We have the, I think, wherewithal to do other things. And we're going to remain curious and remain interested in other things that are possibilities for IEC that are either already in the portfolio or could be new things. So that really hasn't changed.

Speaker 2

But I'd say, short term, certainly with step of ANGI, it is more slimming than expanding.

Speaker 1

Dan, thanks. On the DDM question, break it down into a couple elements. As you mentioned, post combination of Meredith on to the Dotdash platform, we feel excellent about our state the state of our programmatic stack and programmatic integrations broadly. So the ability for us to transact with the inventory that we don't sell directly and get excellent monetization there. We feel great about the state of our ad tech stack and optimizing price and serving frequency etcetera and that Neil and his team have done a tremendous job building that out.

Speaker 1

The 2 continuing efforts which we've talked about in the past, One is continuing to have Decipher integrate into demand side platforms. We've talked about the Amazon platform previously and chipping away at others. The key step there is for them to accept non cookie based targeting and ad buying within their DSP. For some, it can be natural or relatively easily executable step. Others, everything they're doing is cookie based.

Speaker 1

So it requires them to look at their algorithms differently, but we're chipping away on that and allows Decipher to go more broadly. The second is further integrating ourselves directly into the workflows of agencies and then the large advertisers that transact directly through themselves. And for us, that's a focus on developing the managed service capability that DDM can offer where DECIPHER is increasingly productized and programmatic like on a direct basis. So we've talked about some ad tech acquisitions may help in that last case. All of them are part of the DECIPRE roadmap and a core focus of DDM Management.

Speaker 1

And the company is heads down executing to make the Cipher addressable to even more of the ad market. Thank you. Operator, next question.

Operator

Next question. The next question will come from Tom Champion with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Speaker 11

Hi, guys. Good morning. Maybe for Jeff, I was wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on the comments in the letter on the AdsPro product and the LeadsPro product unification. Is this a test? Did it already happen?

Speaker 11

Maybe something you did in Europe? And then curious if you could talk to the relationship with the jobs done well metric. Any connection there? Or would this amplify that trend? Thanks.

Speaker 4

Sure. So right now, the ads and leads business exists as 2 different products, but also on 2 different platforms. Fundamentally, it's the same transaction that happens. Pro pays us several $100 for a bundle of leads or contacts with homeowners. So at the end of the day, the sort of business deal isn't that different.

Speaker 4

But operating it in 2 formats with some inconsistencies in setup on different technical platforms isn't, as was alluded to, sort of the way you do it if you're building it from scratch. So we've set out to get onto a single platform so that we can market consistently and run the business consistently and sell one product to our customers rather than multiple products through multiple sales forces. We have been running a test to understand the efficacy of selling the single product. It is performing better than the leads, almost as well as the ads and we see a path to ending up on the same product. The same product will be a pro paying several $100 for a bundle of leads.

Speaker 4

So we don't expect this to be disruptive commercially or disruptive from the customer experience or frankly to our customer base because it's fundamentally the same business deal. And we think that getting it on the same platform will improve our business a great deal, again, by selling one product to our customers and marketing into one customer base. In terms of jobs done well, we think this will also enhance the business. Currently, the difference between our ads and leads product is that ads effectively buys a bundle of zip codes across single category, whereas leads are able to specify tasks within a category and specify zip codes. What that means is that the leads product lends itself better to matching than the ads product.

Speaker 4

And what we will effectively do is take the ads product, which is a commitment product and move it on to the leads platform as a commitment product, but with the matching features, which we think will actually materially enhance jobs done well for that piece of our customer base. So in short, we think we're going to drive commercial efficiency and effectiveness and jobs done well. And at the end of the day, I don't think you asked this, but just to cover it, we

Speaker 12

this is

Speaker 4

a migration of about the size we've already performed 5 of in Europe and are about to form a 6 by moving the Canadian business to the European platform. So this is a core competency in ANGI. And although these things are not simple or easy, this is about as close to BAU as it comes when it comes to doing one of these things.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Tom. Operator, next question.

Operator

The next question will come from James Haney with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Speaker 13

Thank you. Can we just get a little bit more detail on the comment that you made around reducing corporate costs post an ANGI spend and what specifically are some of those areas and how much could we expect in terms of savings over the near, medium and long term? Thank you.

Speaker 2

Sure. I'll start and Chris can add to this. But the we're not putting a number out on it, James, but the we'll look at all corporate costs. Everything is on the table in there to figure out what we need in a slimmer IC that currently provides services for ANGI. Some of those costs may go with ANGI and some of those costs may go away.

Speaker 2

And we're everything in that context is on the table, and we're just beginning that exercise right now, making sure we preserve the

Speaker 1

ability to grow at IAC, but do that more efficiently and tightly. Yes. It's an active analysis. Part of it is also looking at the corporate functions that ANGI utilizes and understanding what would if the spin happens, what would the needs and level of infrastructure be for that area and those areas post spin. Also historically, when we have spun, some of our people go with the spun company to help build out the functions that don't exist at the spun vehicle as they relied on corporate.

Speaker 1

So active analysis that we're going through and we'll likely be coming back to you next quarter when we're setting out guidance for next year.

Speaker 13

Great. And maybe just one quick follow-up on just the macro environment that you're seeing within digital advertising. Obviously, pretty strong quarter in Q3. I'm just curious what you're seeing maybe by vertical or just generally in the macro landscape?

Speaker 2

Yes. We talked about October already being a little bit light, but the as far as what we can see from the consumer, it seems reasonably healthy right now when we look at MGM, when we look at Turo, when we look at basket sizes in the commerce part of Dotdash Meredith. We don't see the consumer, at least the consumer that we're generally interacting with retreating in any meaningful way. It seems relatively stable. But for October, which we think was there was a lot of distractions in October.

Speaker 1

And then specifically with respect to advertising categories at DDM, the slowdown in advertising spend was pretty broad based. We saw in the last couple of weeks of October ahead of the election. Since then, we've seen categories like retail, technology and health come back solidly. Food and CPG had a strong September, but is coming back more slowly since the election. And then home and travel are both slow, but that's been due to secular slowdowns for a while.

Speaker 1

So and then one other entertainment and media continues to be very weak as streaming is streamers are still broadly trying to find their way. So we expect a number of these to come back in the coming weeks as we ramp up into the holidays and as we say the Super Bowl for our food properties of Thanksgiving and December, and the team is pushing along. Thanks, James. Thanks. Operator, next question.

Operator

The next question will come from Youssef Squali with Truist. Please go ahead.

Speaker 12

Thank you very much. So a couple of questions. First on the data licensing deal, can you talk about the contributions of OpenAI to the core? And just generally, what does the pipeline looks like? With these types of deals, once you do a deal with one big platform, typically you do deals with a whole slew of others.

Speaker 12

We haven't heard of any yet. So maybe just provide some color on that. And then, Joey, on the ENGIE spin off, why does float the idea as a potential event at this point? What are you hoping to gauge before you make a final decision and potentially timing for that? Thank you.

Speaker 2

Sure. I'll start and Chris can add in some detail on the licensing. Just in terms of what's happening broadly on licensing,

Speaker 4

the

Speaker 2

you've got a number of term sheets since the OpenAI deal. So there is activity in the market, but we haven't gotten to any others or at least of any noteworthy scale to a level of transacting or announcing them. But there is active dialogue and different platforms have different perspectives on it. Some respect intellectual property and some aren't there yet and might need some assistance on getting there. And so we'll see how that evolves, but there is certainly a number of active dialogues along those lines.

Speaker 2

On the question of timing, that's both a tactical issue and a legal issue. When you start to consider, you actually have to make a disclosure around that as a 85% shareholder. And that also allows us to start to explore details of that with everybody necessary in the ecosystem or all constituents in that ecosystem to figure out the details. I do think it is highly likely that we get to the conclusion that we will spin ANGI, but there are some processes and boxes to check with all constituents to get that done.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Joey. And Youssef, with respect to the OpenAI deal, if you look at and there are 2 parts to that license. 1 is a fixed component, which we recognize ratably and the other is a variable component, which will true up at future dates depending on metrics we have there. But right now, we're really representing the recognizing the fixed component. If you look at Q3 of 'twenty four, we were licensing revenue was up about $4,100,000 year over year.

Speaker 1

The lion's share of that would be driven by the OpenAI license. So that's on a quarterly basis a good proxy for the revenue we're recognizing. And then the variable components will be calculated and recognized in the future.

Speaker 12

Okay. Thank you both.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Operator, next question.

Operator

Your next question will come from Weigel Aronian with Citigroup. Please go ahead.

Speaker 2

Hey, good morning, guys. Just to follow-up on the last question around the licensing. And you mentioned the letter AI overview showing up in about 20% of queries. Can you expand on that a little bit, what you're seeing there trend wise? What you expect how you expect that to play out over time?

Speaker 2

I know right now you're not seeing much of an impact to traffic. Do you think that stays that way? And then, Joey, you just mentioned the term sheets, but in the letter you also talked about protecting your IP. Maybe you can just expand on that as well? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Sure. In terms of what we're seeing so far, when it's there, we see low mid single digit impact. Sometimes actually it's positive, sometimes it's more than that, sometimes it's less than that. It really depends by category and our content. But remember that only that entire thing, it's rolled out on 20%, but also that's only a subset of our traffic.

Speaker 2

So when you put all that together, the impact to Dotdash Meredith is minimal. We don't know how the UI evolves and we don't know how penetration evolves. I do expect penetration will continue to grow and I expect that we'll continue to feature decently in that penetration because meaning in the AI overviews because our content usually is as a me as an unbiased observer, the best. We invest a lot in that content. We make sure that our content is accurate and well sourced.

Speaker 2

And therefore, it earns its space in AI overviews or elsewhere in terms of users digging deeper and getting into our content. So we think we're in a good place there. We think we are have been holding our ground and we do expect to continue to, but that market evolves quickly and it's something we're keeping a close eye on. And that gets to your second question, which is if traffic if people are using our content, but not sending us audience or compensating us in some other way, we are going to have to protect our intellectual property and to make sure that's the case. So far that has not been the problem, but if that becomes a problem, we certainly will protect it.

Speaker 8

Great. Thank you. Thanks, Yigal.

Speaker 1

Operator, one more question, please.

Operator

Yes, sir. And the last question will come from Nick Jones with JMP Securities. Please go ahead.

Speaker 8

Thanks for taking the questions. Jeff, on ANGI, monetized transactions per service request continue to improve, but we see kind of service professionals going lower, monetized transactions going lower, albeit slower than service requests. I mean, how should we think about that metric going forward? As you kind of turn the corner for growth, let's say, in 2026, is that a metric that can be stable and continue to grow? Is there a gating factor we should be aware of as we think about kind of the algorithm for growth in this business?

Speaker 8

And then, Joey, on M and A, are there any learnings kind of from the last evaluations really kind of got ahead of everything? Kind of post election, I think there's folks maybe speculating that the valuations may kind of run a lot higher. Does that kind of mean you're staring down maybe a multiyear period of really struggling to find any M and A? Are there any learnings from kind of the last time that maybe make it different if that Thank you.

Speaker 3

I'll start on the first question. So there's a few components to what you're talking

Speaker 4

about. Our monetized transactions for SR are going up as we better manage our SRs against the capacity in our system. I think, I think, we're going to be able to our SRs against the capacity in our system. With the inflection we expect in revenue growth in 2026, we also expect monetized transactions to start growing again. The other piece you mentioned is the number of Service Pros.

Speaker 4

The fact is our existing base of Service Pros is effectively outperforming in growth what it used to because our retention is going up. So if you normalize the acquisition over the last couple of years, you would actually see growth in the ServicePro base. But because we are taking down low profitability ServicePro acquisition, you are seeing a decline. So as we get to, I think you used the word floor, so I'll use it. As we get to a floor in terms of taking the last piece out of our traffic with moving to consumer choice and consent.

Speaker 4

And then getting to the right size in terms of our sales force and our acquisition approach with our pro marketing, we will effectively level out in 2025 and grow again across all these metrics in 2026. So hopefully, I think that answers all the pieces of it and also explains a little bit of why we see the growth even though optically you're not seeing it on the face of our metrics.

Speaker 2

I think on your other question, what's key in any environment, probably not telling anyone anything they don't know, but what's key in any environment, whether valuations are down or valuations are creeping up is having an edge in the things that you're going after. And that's certainly what we have looked for and will continue to look for. If we go back to the last big acquisition, biggest acquisition we did, which was Meredith, While the timing was not ideal and we got some things wrong as it relates to the COVID benefits that both our business and Meredith's business we're seeing at the time, what has turned out to be true was the strategic value of that transaction. And the only reason that, that has is that we're doing okay in that transaction right now, not what we originally hoped for, but the reason that we're doing okay in that transaction right now is because we were able to deliver that strategic operating execution difference in that business with bringing that what was a unmodernized digital business into the modern world to a way to the point where we could take start to take share as a publisher.

Speaker 2

So we had a meaningful macro headwind on that business, which we underappreciated the potential of that. But the strategic element was essential to the survival and what is now winning and taking share in that category as a digital publisher. So we'll continue to look for an edge and when we find an edge that is something that enters the realm of possible and that's what we continue to look for.

Speaker 1

Thank you, everyone. Thank you, operator. Wish everyone a good day and thank you for your time.

Operator

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

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Earnings Conference Call
Angi Q3 2024
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