NYSE:PBA Pembina Pipeline Q4 2023 Earnings Report $37.96 +0.57 (+1.53%) Closing price 04/17/2025 03:59 PM EasternExtended Trading$37.92 -0.04 (-0.10%) As of 04/17/2025 05:36 PM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. Earnings HistoryForecast Pembina Pipeline EPS ResultsActual EPS$0.89Consensus EPS $0.55Beat/MissBeat by +$0.34One Year Ago EPSN/APembina Pipeline Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$1.81 billionExpected Revenue$1.83 billionBeat/MissMissed by -$20.86 millionYoY Revenue GrowthN/APembina Pipeline Announcement DetailsQuarterQ4 2023Date2/22/2024TimeN/AConference Call DateFriday, February 23, 2024Conference Call Time10:00AM ETUpcoming EarningsPembina Pipeline's Q1 2025 earnings is scheduled for Thursday, May 8, 2025, with a conference call scheduled on Friday, May 9, 2025 at 10:00 AM ET. Check back for transcripts, audio, and key financial metrics as they become available.Conference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptPress ReleaseAnnual ReportEarnings HistoryCompany ProfilePowered by Pembina Pipeline Q4 2023 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrFebruary 23, 2024 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 13 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:01Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Pembina Pipeline Corporation Q4 2023 Results Conference Call. At this time, all lines are in a listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. This call is recorded on Friday, February 23, 2024. I would now like to turn the conference over to Cameron Goldie, Chief Financial Officer of Pembina Pipeline. Operator00:00:35Please go ahead. Speaker 100:00:37Thank you, Ludie, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to Pembina's conference call and webcast to review highlights from the Q4 full year of 2023. On the call today, we also have Scott Burrows, President and Chief Executive Officer, along with other members of Pembina's leadership team, including Jared Sprott, Janet Leduca, Stu Taylor and Chris Sherman. I would like to remind you that some of the comments made today may be forward looking in nature and are based on Pembina's current expectations, estimates, judgments and projections. Forward looking statements may express or imply today are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations. Speaker 100:01:13Further, some of the information provided refers to non GAAP measures. To learn more about these forward looking statements and non GAAP measures, please see the company's management's discussion and analysis dated February 20 2, 2024, for the period ended December 31, 2023, as well as the press release Pembina issued yesterday, which are available online at pembina.com and on both SEDAR and EDGAR. I will now turn things over to Scott to make some opening remarks. Speaker 200:01:38Thanks, Cam. We were pleased yesterday to report our 4th quarter results, which included quarterly earnings of $698,000,000 and record quarterly adjusted EBITDA of just over $1,000,000,000 We also delivered record annual adjusted EBITDA of $3,820,000,000 which exceeded the high end of the original 2023 guidance range and reflects the strength, predictability and resilience of Pembina's business. In 2023, we saw growing volumes across many systems, supplemented by the value enhancement from another strong year from Pembina's marketing business. Positive momentum in the Western Canadian Sedimentary Basin could be seen by more than 4% year over year increase in second half volumes in the conventional pipeline business. In 2023, Pembina progressed its strategy by sustaining and enhancing our business through various accomplishments we shared throughout the past year, including signing new contracts from the Peace Pipeline system, signing new and or extending existing contracts to the Redwater complex, reactivating the Nipissippi pipeline and approving new projects such as the 55,000 barrel per day RFS-four expansion, the expansion of the Northeast BC pipeline and a cogeneration facility at PGI's KaBOB III plant. Speaker 200:02:52In the 4th quarter, positive developments continued, including the announcement of a $3,100,000,000 acquisition of Enbridge's interest in Alliance Ox Sable. Pembina's business is built around integrated difficult to replicate assets that provide an enduring competitive advantage and unequaled market access for customers. Alliance Pipeline and Aux Sable are world class energy infrastructure assets and increasing our existing ownership of them will further enhance our growing franchise. We continue to expect the acquisition to close in the first half of twenty twenty four subject to the satisfaction or waiver of customary closing conditions. On the commercial front, we announced yesterday that in support of Dow's Path to 0 project, Pembina has entered into long term agreements to supply up to 50,000 barrels per day of ethane and for the associated transportation on the Alberta ethane gathering system. Speaker 200:03:42The Path to 0 project is an important development for the WCSB, representing a significant increase to the current ethane market in Alberta. Given Pembina's existing leading ethane supply and transportation business and integrated value chain, there are multiple opportunities for the company to benefit from this new development through both the existing asset base and new investment opportunities. During the Q4, we also closed open seasons on the Coshan pipeline for a total of 90,000 barrels per day and signed an incremental contract with an anchor customer for service on the Nipissippi pipeline, which is now contracted for more than half the capacity on a long term basis with line of sight to the asset being fully contracted by the end of 2024. On the major project front, we continue to progress our Phase 8 Peace pipeline expansion and our RFS IV expansion of the Redwater complex. On the Phase 8 project, the capital budget has been further revised lower to $430,000,000 which is $100,000,000 under the original budget. Speaker 200:04:37The construction is expected to be completed in the Q1 of 2024 with pipeline and facility commissioning and start up expected in the Q2 of 2024. Our experience of Phase 8 is another example supporting Pembina's track record of strong project execution. Additionally, Pembina Gas Infrastructure has approved an expansion at the Wapiti plant that will increase natural gas processing capacity by 115,000,000 cubic feet per day and is expected to be in service in the first half of twenty twenty six. The Wapiti expansion is being driven by strong customer demand supported by growing Montney production and will be fully underpinned by long term take or pay contracts. Finally, yesterday, we provided an update on the Cedar LNG project. Speaker 200:05:20Cedar LNG has substantially completed several key project deliverables, including obtaining material regulatory approvals, advancing inter project agreements with Coastal GasLink and LNG Canada, signing a heads of agreement with Samsung Heavy Industries in Black and Veatch and executing a lump sum engineering procurement and construction agreement to provide Cedar LNG with the necessary services to construct the project. While a lot has been accomplished, there remain a number of schedule driven interconnected elements that require resolution prior to making the final investment decision. These include binding commercial offtake, obtaining 3rd party consent and project financing. On this basis, a final investment decision is now expected in the middle of 2024. I will now turn things over to Cam to discuss in more detail financial highlights for the 2023 Q4 and full year. Speaker 100:06:08Thanks, Scott. As Scott noted, Temera recorded 4th quarter adjusted EBITDA of $1,030,000,000 This represents a 12% increase over the same period in the prior year. In pipelines, factors impacting the quarter primarily included higher volumes on the Peace Pipeline System, Drayton Valley Pipeline and on the recently reactivated Nipissippi Pipeline, higher pulls primarily on the Cochin Pipeline and Peace Pipeline Systems, largely related to contractual inflation adjustments and lower contributions from the Alliance pipeline, primarily due to lower interruptible tolls and volumes. In facilities, factors impacting the quarter included higher contribution from the PGI assets, primarily from the former Energy Transfer Canada plants, the HEIGHTS plant and the Dawson assets due to higher volumes and higher revenue at Vancouver Wharves. In Marketing and New Ventures, 4th quarter results reflect the net impact of higher contribution from Aux Sable, lower natural gas and crude oil marketing margins, largely offset by higher NGL margins and realized losses on commodity related derivatives in the Q4 of 2023 compared to realized gains in the Q4 of 2022. Speaker 100:07:18Finally, in the Corporate segment, 4th quarter results were largely consistent with the same period in the prior year. Earnings in the Q4 were $698,000,000 This represents a 187% increase over the same period in the prior year. In addition to the factors impacting adjusted EBITDA, the increase in earnings in the Q4 was primarily due to the net impact of the impairment reversal related to the Nippon 60 pipeline, the Ruvi settlement provision and associated legal fees incurred in the Q4 of 2022, lower project write offs, higher depreciation and unrealized gain on commodity related derivatives compared to a loss in the Q4 of 2022, lower net finance costs and higher income tax expense and the recognition of a previously unrecognized deferred tax asset. Total volumes were 3,450,000 barrels per day in the 4th quarter. This represents an increase of 2% over the same period in the prior year, reflecting the net impact of the reactivation of the Nipissippi pipeline, higher volumes on the Peace and Drayton Valley pipelines, higher volumes from PGI and lower volumes at the Redwater complex. Speaker 100:08:27The 4th quarter contributed to full year results that included earnings of $1,776,000,000 record adjusted EBITDA of $3,824,000,000 which was 2% higher than in 2022 and exceeded the high end of the company's original guidance range. Cash flow from operating activities of $2,635,000,000 and adjusted cash flow from operating activities of $2,646,000,000 Thanks to strong results, Pembina generated meaningful free cash flow, which was allocated to strengthening the balance sheet and returning capital to shareholders. In 2023, we raised the common share dividend by 2.3%, repurchased $50,000,000 of common shares and continued to reduce leverage below the low end of the target range. At December 31, 2023, based on the trailing 12 months, the ratio of proportionally consolidated debt to adjusted EBITDA was 3.3 times, reflective of our strong balance sheet and supporting a strong BBB credit rating. Speaker 200:09:28I'll now turn things back to Scott. Thanks, Cam. In closing, we are enthusiastic about the future given the current momentum in the WCSB and expected continued volume growth through 2024 and beyond. Our broader outlook remains unchanged as we see the potential for mid single digit growth driven by tangible near term catalysts, including up to approximately $2,800,000,000 cubic feet per day of new natural gas export capacity from the new West Coast LNG projects, 590,000 barrels per day of new crude oil export capacity from the expected completion of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion and potential new developments in the Alberta petrochemical industry, including significant incremental ethane demand associated with Dow's path to 0 project. Given the scope and reach of our business, Pembina is uniquely positioned to benefit from these catalysts. Speaker 200:10:18Our investors have come to expect strong and consistent financial leadership from us demonstrated by a secure and growing dividend and unwavering commitment to our financial guardrails, a low risk and primarily fee based business with high take or pay or cost service contributions and a strong balance sheet. You can expect us to continue to execute our strategy with the same financial discipline that has made us successful to date. In closing, I believe the next 5 years will be an exciting time in the Canadian energy industry. With exceptional resources, greater access to global markets and leading environmental and social performance standards, Canada's energy industry has an opportunity for greatness. I'm extremely proud of what Pembina and the rest of our industry do to ensure responsibly produced energy is available to meet growing global demand. Speaker 200:11:02Thank you for joining us this morning. Operator, please go ahead and open up the line for questions. Operator00:11:07Thank And your first question comes from the line of Jeremy Tonet from JPMorgan. Your line is open. Speaker 300:11:45Hi, good morning. Speaker 200:11:47Good morning, Jeremy. Speaker 300:11:50Just wanted to go into the Dow announcement a little bit more as far as this ethane supply agreement is concerned. I'm wondering if you could frame up, I guess, is this all incremental ethane extraction kind of upside new to the system? Is there any redirection? And also how much of this would you characterize as brownfield versus greenfield investments here? Just trying to get a sense for what the project economics could look like here. Speaker 400:12:17Good morning, Jeremy. Jared here. Yes, great question. So super excited to announce our contribution to Dow's net 0 cracker here in Alberta. With respect to our supply, it is going to be a material increase to Pembina's overall supply. Speaker 400:12:35It will require us to spend incremental capital with respect to getting that supply. We've spoken previously about RFS III that was originally designed as a C3 plus fractionator, but has the optionality for us to put DF on it. So that would be a brownfield expansion. There are other opportunities at Empress and through PGI and or Pembina wholly owned extraction assets that we see opportunities. We also obviously see a massive positive with respect to utilization across our asset base. Speaker 400:13:12And with 50,000 barrels of ethane, obviously, a punch of C3 plus comes along with that. So, it is going to be a mix of brownfield and greenfield opportunities for Pembina and higher utilization across the board. And then on the eggs pipeline, Pembina has announced that we're going to be 50,000 barrels. We fully expect that we're not the only contributor to Dallas supply portfolio. We don't know where the other portions of that supply portfolio are coming from. Speaker 400:13:41So once we understand where that's coming from, we'll be in a better position to update the all on eggs expansions. Speaker 300:13:52Got it. That's very helpful there. And is there any way to frame what the potential capital deployment sizing or timeframe or sizing really could be for this? Speaker 200:14:06Yes. Jeremy, it's Scott here. We've been progressing, as Jared pointed out, multiple options. We're working the engineering and the economics of all of those. So I would say probably by mid year we'll be in a better position to update the market and kind of which projects we predict will be going forward. Speaker 200:14:25But suffice to say, no material CapEx in 2024. Speaker 300:14:31Got it. Understood. And just one last one, if I could. Nipissippi, pipe and reactivation here. Just wondering if you could speak a bit more on the market drivers to this in, I guess, commercial momentum here? Speaker 300:14:45What you see in the market? Is there potential to could this be fully filled up? What type of time frame could that materialize over and what are the drivers here? Speaker 400:14:58I'll take that again, Jeremy. So the drivers are the Clearwater formation. So a lot of activity in that neighborhood. And we expect the pipeline to honestly be fully contracted by the end of 2024. We put it back into service last year. Speaker 400:15:18We're seeing very strong utilization, physical utilization today. We've signed up incremental contracts, which I believe we announced at the end of last year. And yes, fully see line of sight to having that 100% contracted by year end. Speaker 300:15:35Got it. That's helpful. I'll leave it there. Thanks. Operator00:15:40Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Rob Hope from Scotiabank. Your line is open. Speaker 500:15:49Good morning, everyone. I want to stick on the Dow announcement and the supply in Western Canada. When you look at the options, do you expect that the incremental ethane supply sources will all be Western Canadian? Or could you be pushing some incremental barrels on Vantage? I just want to get a sense of whether or not you're expecting this all to be Western Canada or some of the Bakken? Speaker 200:16:12Yes. Rob, again, this ethane is going to be supplied from a mix of the existing portfolio as well as new. And new ethane will come from some of the various projects that we're currently evaluating as we discussed. There definitely is an option to move incremental barrels on Vantage out of the Bakken. So that is a very real possibility to supply. Speaker 500:16:40I appreciate that. And then maybe just moving over to kind of the volume outlook for 2024, a number of moving parts including, we'll call it, rather strong condi pricing offset by weak AECO pricing. When you're talking to your producer customers, how do you think volumes progress through the year? Should we see a little bit of softness in the front part and then ramping up into LNG Canada in 2025? Speaker 200:17:07Yes. Rob, I think we continue to believe in that mid single digit growth that we talked about, but we are monitoring producer CapEx budgets pretty closely and have ongoing discussions. And so certainly it's on the back it's top of mind in terms of what producers are going to do throughout the rest of the year. But to your point, obviously, we'd like AECO to be a little bit higher for our producing community, but with oil at $77 condensate premium and Canadian dollar earning over $100 for your condensate carries the day a lot of the time. And so we still believe that our producers' economics are very robust just given where condensate pricing is. Speaker 200:17:56But we are certainly watching producer budgets given the weakness in AECO. Speaker 100:18:01And I would just add to that, Rob, on top of liquids market or the condensate market, obviously, the NGL market has bounced around a little bit. But certainly, December, January and into February here, we've seen some strength there. And obviously, the arb into the Far East markets continues to be open and supportive for that as well. So we do see that buffering the weaker gas prices as well. Speaker 600:18:29Thank you. Operator00:18:33And your next question comes from the line of Linda Ezergailis from TD Cowen. Your line is Speaker 700:18:40Cowen. Recognizing we'll likely get an update on Cedar LNG midyear. Just wondering how we might think about the bookends of cost estimates for the project recognizing that a few things have moved around including foreign exchange since you first announced the project? Speaker 100:19:02Yes. Thanks, Linda. It's Cam here. I guess we'll continue to defer being very specific about that question until we can really tell the whole story around the opportunity. I mean, obviously, when we bought into that project, we announced the capital cost of in the mid-two billion dollars range. Speaker 100:19:27Obviously, the world has changed since then, and I think we all recognize that it's going to be higher than that. That said, when we look at Cedar from a global competitiveness standpoint, we see that it continues to stack up very well from a cost per tonne basis against the North American alternatives into the global markets, reflecting both the capital intensity but also the West Coast advantages in terms of shipping that Cedar enjoys. So recognizing that there's a desire for more specificity, we'll probably leave it at that until we can tell the full story. Speaker 700:20:05Okay. And maybe as a follow-up, if you can help us understand, given all of what you just shared in terms of that compelling advantage, has anything changed about your return expectations for the project? Would you expect kind of similar returns even with a higher capital cost or potentially higher given the compelling, locational advantages or maybe were your initial returns higher and they've come down a bit? Is there anything that you can point towards directionally? Speaker 100:20:39Yes. I would say from where we look at this project from this point in the development cycle, the economics of Cedar continue to reflect what we would have seen historically in terms of greenfield type returns for projects of this sort. They're clearly not where the brownfield opportunities are. And obviously, we've got a number of those as well. But they would continue to be in that same sort of historical range, that mid- to high single digit kind of range. Speaker 700:21:14Thank you. And just maybe commercially as well, recognizing that there's a few moving parts. Can you talk about what the potential sticking points are about getting to firm offtake agreements? And what sort of mix of take or pay versus fee for service or other attributes would you be looking for in any offtake agreements? Speaker 200:21:38Linda, it's Scott here. I think really it's time. There's just a lot of different agreements that have to be put in place. And so we're continuing to progress detailed negotiations, but a lot of it is just due to time and the interdependency of so many different agreements on this project. In terms of our structure, recall that this project will be project financed. Speaker 200:22:06And so just by the nature of that, this project will need to have significant underpinning in order to proceed on that basis. Operator00:22:15Thank you. Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Robert Catellier from CIBC Capital Markets. Your line is open. Speaker 800:22:29Hey, good morning. I have a follow-up here on the ethane supply agreement. I'm wondering if you could explain the exposure that you have on that agreement to commodity prices and volumes? Speaker 100:22:48Yes, Rob. I mean, I think that if you think about the way that ethane is contracted in Western Canada, it's obviously different than other parts of North America. And so generally speaking, the way that works is that it's ultimately for folks like us a fee based structure. But the way that Pembina really makes money is on this is through transportation and provision of the volumes through the rest of the asset base. So as we sit today through the conventional business, through the transmission business, through the deep cuts and of the gas plants and the fractionators, it's really sort of the tolling model that is the value driver for the ethane molecule along with the associated C3 plus that comes with those molecules when you extract it. Speaker 800:23:44Right. So to the extent the market is short or tight and maybe short volumes or the price is up, that ultimately is borne by the counterparty? Speaker 100:23:58That's correct. Speaker 800:24:01Right. And then I wondered if you could just talk a little bit about the degree of additional costs for some of the emerging regulations and amended methane regulation, for example, clean fuel regulation, etcetera, etcetera. Typically, we would expect any change of law or tightening of these regulations to have some cost sharing with your customers. But as it seems like a pretty, I guess, a continually evolving landscape and as far as environmental regulation goes. But as you look over the horizon the next 3 to 5 years, is there any substantial change to your cost structure that's not otherwise shared with shippers or producers? Speaker 200:24:52Not at this stage, Rob. I mean, I think we're continuing to assess all the existing and pending regulations. We continue to work on decarbonization of all the assets and really understanding where we can get the best emission reductions for the best dollar value. As it relates to contracting, as you pointed out, many of the assets have cost sharing arrangements, which protects us a little bit. But we also have assets like Empress where we're fully exposed and we're working on what the implications are that. Speaker 200:25:26But at this stage, there's no, what I'd call, material change in the cost structure. Speaker 800:25:33Okay. Last question for me is just, are there any significant implications for Chevron selling their Duvernay assets in terms of your business development? Speaker 400:25:47No major implications, Rob, actually. We're excited. We're going to support Chevron through the transaction. Chevron, I would say, has taken a modest approach to the development in the area. And we believe that upon divestment of those assets, the acquirer may take a more advanced or aggressive approach on developing those resource, which will benefit PGI and the Speaker 200:26:12rest of Pembina's infrastructure? Yes, Rob. If you look back at say over the last 18 months, there's been a fair bit of M and A activity in Canada on the asset side. And I think what we've seen historically has been new acquirers tend to deploy more capital than previous owners, whether that's to make their transactions go around or that's obviously what they believe in at the time of the transaction. And so we have found M and A over the last 18 months to actually be an acceleration and you've seen that in the increased utilization across the PGI assets. Speaker 200:26:46So Chevron is a great counterparty, but we would expect potentially higher volumes over the relatively near future through an acquisition of a third party. Speaker 800:27:00Okay. Thank you and congratulations on all your business momentum. Speaker 200:27:04Thank you. Operator00:27:07And your next question comes from the line of Puneet Satish from Wells Fargo. Your line is open. Speaker 900:27:14Thanks. I guess two more questions here on the Dow agreement. So the supply agreement of 50,000 barrels, as you mentioned, I mean, that's not the full ethane supply. I think it's only about half of the crackers needs. And I guess I'm just struggling to think about who could satisfy the balance of the ethane just given your position. Speaker 900:27:36But I guess even if there's another 50,000 barrels of ethane coming from other plants in the region, can you still pick up a benefit by moving some of that third party supply through your pipelines? Speaker 200:27:49Yes. Again, we don't have line of sight to where the rest of the ethane is coming from and in what phase and what timeline. So potentially a question for others, but depending on where that ethane comes from, we would have an opportunity to move in on our pipelines. Again, we have the only C2 plus pipeline in operations today, gathering lines. And so we have a pretty big frac footprint. Speaker 200:28:19So there is the potential, but at this stage, we're not aware or where the rest of the ethane is coming from. Speaker 900:28:28Got it. And then kind of second question on this project. I mean, you talked about the potential to produce more propane and butane from increasing the NGL cut on your plants for the project. I guess, how are you thinking about the end markets for this incremental supply of C3 plus Is there maybe enough to consider an LPG export dock expansion? Or will it get railed into the U. Speaker 900:28:53S? Speaker 1000:28:57It's Chris here. Yes, we certainly are tracking that closely and recognize that with the ethane will come more propane and busane. It's likely that it's going to find a path to the West Coast. So we're back revisiting what we can do at our facility. We're looking at what others are doing and watching that closely and I think it will inevitably spur something on the West Coast. Speaker 900:29:23Got it. Thank you. Operator00:29:27And your next question comes from the line of Robert Kwan from RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open. Speaker 1100:29:35Good morning. I can stop start with the topic of the day without. So you talked about the potential to put a DS on the front of our S3. What other capital could you see going into the system, whether it's compression or deep cuts out in the field? And just under the agreement then with Dow, given you're still working through costs of everything, does the agreement specify return on the capital? Speaker 1100:30:02Or are you taking the risk on how all of this capital needs to come together within whatever fee you've agreed with, with Dow? Speaker 200:30:14Yes, Rob. I have to be careful what I say because we have obviously confidential arrangements, but we are obligated it is a supply arrangement, so we're obligated provide the ethane. We are again, going back to the initial comments, we have a mix here where a significant portion will come from existing assets or very light capital touch to existing assets. And then in terms of the new supply, we do have a mix. And so you pointed out potentially, as an example, incremental deep cuts, RFS, 3, DAT, there's other opportunities that we just can't talk about at this stage that we're exploring. Speaker 200:30:57And so for us, it'll be about how to get the most ethane for the least amount of cost and that's something that we're currently assessing right now. And I know there's a lot of questions on it, but we're just not at the stage where we can provide that detail and we'll look to do that once we make some of these decisions on a go forward basis. But it will be an overall mix of existing assets, light touch brownfield and then some incremental greenfield investments. Speaker 1100:31:23Got it. And Scott, can I just square your comments here though up with an answer earlier that if the market is caught short and there is a need to go out and attract ethane supply at a high price? I know that most of ethane is cost of service in the province. But if you have to do that, there was a statement that is going to be borne by Dow. So how does that square up just in terms of your obligations to supply? Speaker 100:31:48Yes. Sorry, Rob, I'll clarify my comments. What I meant was that the cost the pass through to ultimately the producer who is providing the ethane, there's an arrangement there. But it's a supply agreement and we have the obligation to supply. So we have a capital cost element to that, but there's the price is fixed. Speaker 1100:32:19Okay. If I could just shift to Cedar, you listed a number of things that you got to work through. One of them that you didn't list though is just around costs. So coming out of the FEED study, are you comfortable with where those costs are? How you're going Speaker 200:32:36to manage the risk? Speaker 1100:32:37And it really is now how do you deal with the commercial on the other side? I guess specifically on cost, can you just talk about how you are planning on managing cost overrun risk and specifically you've talked about fixed price EPCs, but how are you planning on protecting yourself against the material type of overruns that we've seen in other projects that have led to contractor bankruptcies? Speaker 200:33:04Yes, Rob. I'll start there and Stu feel free to jump in. But again, part of the timing around this project was ensuring that we had a very robust EPC contract lump sum turnkey. Again, this is a ship being built in Korea in Samsung's shipyard under a controlled environment, with LNG modules being placed on top of it. And that is all under a lump sum turnkey arrangement, which is the vast majority of the cost, which again, we'll lay this all out if we are fortunate enough to make an FID decision. Speaker 200:33:45So I'm not trying to be coy. There's just a lot of moving pieces. But on that piece, we feel very, very comfortable given the robustness of the contract that we negotiated that the vast majority of that price has been pushed off onto our EPC contract. The remaining price that's on risk for Pembina is pipeline and transmission lines. And it's a 9 kilometer pipeline, 10 kilometer pipeline. Speaker 200:34:14I think given our track record, I would hope that market has some confidence around our ability to deliver on that. I mean, you just saw Phase 8 come in materially under budget. So we feel confident around doing our core business on this asset. And then of course on top of that we have typical project contingency and protection. So overall, we feel good mainly because of we went with a lump sum engineering contract and those always cost a little bit more. Speaker 200:34:45But from a risk reward basis, we like that approach to major projects. Speaker 1100:34:51Totally. It sounds like I just need a quick one here just on the Alliance Aux Sable deal. You've got AHSR, but can you just comment on where you are in the Canadian Competition Speaker 300:35:00Bureau approval? Speaker 100:35:04Yes, Rob. I would say that timing wise, you can see that we reiterated our second half our first half of twenty twenty four timeframe. You're correct. We've got the waiting period expiry on HSR and Transport Canada. I would say we don't have any better information at this point on the Competition Bureau process to refine that view anymore. Speaker 100:35:27Things are progressing as expected as planned, but no sort of further visibility at this point to try and narrow that date. Speaker 200:35:37Okay. Thank you. Operator00:35:41Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Zack Van Averine from TPH. Your line is open. Speaker 600:35:50Hey guys, thanks for taking the question. Just going to the Fort SaaS frac markets, it seems like a lot of those facilities are running close to full. I was just curious if you guys had any incremental room to capture if spot rates moved up? And then as you talk to producers, are frac constraints becoming more and more of a concern? Speaker 400:36:12Yes. Good morning. Jared here. The answer to your question is yes. But we it is becoming a concern for our customers, but it's also we don't have a lot of opportunity unfortunately because we're fully contracted for the most part. Speaker 400:36:28We don't have a lot of opportunity to get a lot of spot rates. The NGL season does start on April 1, so the teams are obviously in deep negotiations with respect to annual deals. But the majority of our contracts at our fractionation complex are long term in nature, 5, 10 plus years. So unfortunately, where we can grab those opportunities, we do, but it is long term in nature. Speaker 200:36:55But certainly future frac negotiations continue to progress. And with RFS being the next frac in service, RFS IV being the next frac in service, we have the option to continue to progress those negotiations and sign up incremental barrels. That's predicted to come online in the first half of twenty twenty six and is really the next material frac expansion that we're aware of and so those discussions continue. Speaker 600:37:28Okay, perfect. That's super helpful. And then one on coaching, it seems like coaching and competing subscribed shipper interest. I was curious if you could squeeze any more capacity out of that system with smaller capital efficient solutions or maybe there's a bigger project you guys could do Speaker 400:37:48as well? I'll take that again. So, Quotient since we've acquired that asset in December of 2019, we've increased the throughput by roughly, I think 25%, 30% and safely. So I would say that we're meeting all of customer demand today. Our availability is extremely high. Speaker 400:38:11But I don't think there's without a major expansion, there's not a lot of room unfortunately left on that asset. Speaker 600:38:21Okay, perfect. Super helpful as well. And that's all I had for today. Thanks guys. Operator00:38:28Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Patrick Kenny from National Bank Financial. Your line is open. Speaker 1200:38:35Yes, good morning guys. Just on the Wapiti expansion, nice to see the commercial support there. Wondering if you could just update us on what other G and P expansion opportunities might be in the queue across your portfolio based on the customer activity levels that you're seeing in the field these days? Speaker 400:38:57I can't speak to specifics, Pat, but I think a couple of quarters ago, I mentioned that we had line of sight to a substantial amount of capital to be deployed on a gross and a net basis through PGI. But obviously with the K3 cogen, which is going to obviously increase the reliability of that asset, lower the carbon intensity, the Wapiti expansion that will utilize the acid gas transmission line that we acquired through the Energy Transfer Canada acquisition. We have other opportunities to do, I would call it what field based processing, but incrementally through PGI with the partnership with Dow and our incremental C2 supply agreement, we have opportunities to deploy more capital on the field based extraction as well. So can't get into the specifics, but lots of opportunities for sure. Speaker 1200:39:52And then maybe from a tuck in or M and A perspective, curious Jared, if you're seeing any shift in producer appetite for 3rd party gas processing services, just given the outlook for gas prices at least through the summer and maybe their need to secure downstream access and maximize the value of their liquids production within their overall netbacks? Speaker 200:40:21Yes, I would say no material change in the market. There continues to be it's very producer specific in terms of certain producers want to own and operate and that's core to their business and others look at what opportunities there are for midstreamers to enhance their capital allocation decisions. And so I would say it's both discussions are ongoing and always have been and it's really producer specific, but I wouldn't say there's any kind of material step change given gas prices or anything like that. It would be normal course. Speaker 400:40:55I would say though, Pat, that any acquisitions we do through PGI, obviously we have to be on side with our partner, but we really want to make sure that we're focused on the geology that we're buying processing assets that have long reserve life indexes, and then obviously contribute to the rest of Pembina's value chain. Speaker 1200:41:16Okay, that's great. Thanks guys. Speaker 200:41:19Thanks, Pat. Operator00:41:23Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of our Q and A session. I would like to turn it back to Pembina's President and Chief Executive Officer, Scott Burrows for closing remarks. Speaker 200:41:35Well, thank you everyone. Thanks to our staff that are listening in to our customers. We really appreciate all the hard work and thank you to all the investors and analysts on the call. 2023 was an exceptional year for our company and we're pretty excited about what we can deliver in 2024. So thank you everyone. Operator00:41:57Thank you, presenters. And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.Read morePowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallPembina Pipeline Q4 202300:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsPress ReleaseAnnual report Pembina Pipeline Earnings HeadlinesPembina Pipeline (PBA) Gets a Buy from BarclaysApril 18 at 12:51 AM | markets.businessinsider.comFY2025 EPS Forecast for Pembina Pipeline Lowered by AnalystApril 15, 2025 | americanbankingnews.comSomething strange going on at Mar-a-LagoA former government advisor says a $9 trillion AI breakthrough is nearing launch. It may become America’s biggest advantage in the race against China — and a handful of Musk-linked companies could benefit.April 20, 2025 | Brownstone Research (Ad)Pembina Pipeline Corporation Declares Quarterly Preferred Share Dividends and Announces First Quarter 2025 Results Conference Call and WebcastApril 8, 2025 | businesswire.comPembina Pipeline Corporation Declares Quarterly Preferred Share Dividends and Announces First Quarter 2025 Results Conference Call and WebcastApril 8, 2025 | businesswire.comNotable Two Hundred Day Moving Average Cross - PBAApril 6, 2025 | nasdaq.comSee More Pembina Pipeline Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like Pembina Pipeline? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on Pembina Pipeline and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About Pembina PipelinePembina Pipeline (NYSE:PBA) provides energy transportation and midstream services. It operates through three segments: Pipelines, Facilities, and Marketing & New Ventures. The Pipelines segment operates conventional, oil sands and heavy oil, and transmission assets with a transportation capacity of 2.9 millions of barrels of oil equivalent per day, the ground storage capacity of 10 millions of barrels, and rail terminalling capacity of approximately 105 thousands of barrels of oil equivalent per day serving markets and basins across North America. The Facilities segment offers infrastructure that provides customers with natural gas, condensate, and natural gas liquids (NGLs), including ethane, propane, butane, and condensate; and includes 354 thousands of barrels per day of NGL fractionation capacity, 21 millions of barrels of cavern storage capacity, and associated pipeline, and rail terminalling facilities and a liquefied propane export facility. The Marketing & New Ventures segment buys and sells hydrocarbon liquids and natural gas originating in the Western Canadian sedimentary basin and other basins. Pembina Pipeline Corporation was incorporated in 1954 and is headquartered in Calgary, Canada.View Pembina Pipeline ProfileRead more More Earnings Resources from MarketBeat Earnings Tools Today's Earnings Tomorrow's Earnings Next Week's Earnings Upcoming Earnings Calls Earnings Newsletter Earnings Call Transcripts Earnings Beats & Misses Corporate Guidance Earnings Screener Earnings By Country U.S. Earnings Reports Canadian Earnings Reports U.K. Earnings Reports Latest Articles Archer Aviation Unveils NYC Network Ahead of Key Earnings Report3 Reasons to Like the Look of Amazon Ahead of EarningsTesla Stock Eyes Breakout With Earnings on DeckJohnson & Johnson Earnings Were More Good Than Bad—Time to Buy? Why Analysts Boosted United Airlines Stock Ahead of EarningsLamb Weston Stock Rises, Earnings Provide Calm Amidst ChaosIntuitive Machines Gains After Earnings Beat, NASA Missions Ahead Upcoming Earnings Tesla (4/22/2025)Intuitive Surgical (4/22/2025)Verizon Communications (4/22/2025)Canadian National Railway (4/22/2025)Novartis (4/22/2025)RTX (4/22/2025)3M (4/22/2025)Capital One Financial (4/22/2025)General Electric (4/22/2025)Danaher (4/22/2025) Get 30 Days of MarketBeat All Access for Free Sign up for MarketBeat All Access to gain access to MarketBeat's full suite of research tools. Start Your 30-Day Trial MarketBeat All Access Features Best-in-Class Portfolio Monitoring Get personalized stock ideas. Compare portfolio to indices. Check stock news, ratings, SEC filings, and more. Stock Ideas and Recommendations See daily stock ideas from top analysts. Receive short-term trading ideas from MarketBeat. Identify trending stocks on social media. Advanced Stock Screeners and Research Tools Use our seven stock screeners to find suitable stocks. Stay informed with MarketBeat's real-time news. Export data to Excel for personal analysis. Sign in to your free account to enjoy these benefits In-depth profiles and analysis for 20,000 public companies. Real-time analyst ratings, insider transactions, earnings data, and more. Our daily ratings and market update email newsletter. Sign in to your free account to enjoy all that MarketBeat has to offer. Sign In Create Account Your Email Address: Email Address Required Your Password: Password Required Log In or Sign in with Facebook Sign in with Google Forgot your password? Your Email Address: Please enter your email address. Please enter a valid email address Choose a Password: Please enter your password. Your password must be at least 8 characters long and contain at least 1 number, 1 letter, and 1 special character. Create My Account (Free) or Sign in with Facebook Sign in with Google By creating a free account, you agree to our terms of service. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
There are 13 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:01Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Pembina Pipeline Corporation Q4 2023 Results Conference Call. At this time, all lines are in a listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. This call is recorded on Friday, February 23, 2024. I would now like to turn the conference over to Cameron Goldie, Chief Financial Officer of Pembina Pipeline. Operator00:00:35Please go ahead. Speaker 100:00:37Thank you, Ludie, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to Pembina's conference call and webcast to review highlights from the Q4 full year of 2023. On the call today, we also have Scott Burrows, President and Chief Executive Officer, along with other members of Pembina's leadership team, including Jared Sprott, Janet Leduca, Stu Taylor and Chris Sherman. I would like to remind you that some of the comments made today may be forward looking in nature and are based on Pembina's current expectations, estimates, judgments and projections. Forward looking statements may express or imply today are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations. Speaker 100:01:13Further, some of the information provided refers to non GAAP measures. To learn more about these forward looking statements and non GAAP measures, please see the company's management's discussion and analysis dated February 20 2, 2024, for the period ended December 31, 2023, as well as the press release Pembina issued yesterday, which are available online at pembina.com and on both SEDAR and EDGAR. I will now turn things over to Scott to make some opening remarks. Speaker 200:01:38Thanks, Cam. We were pleased yesterday to report our 4th quarter results, which included quarterly earnings of $698,000,000 and record quarterly adjusted EBITDA of just over $1,000,000,000 We also delivered record annual adjusted EBITDA of $3,820,000,000 which exceeded the high end of the original 2023 guidance range and reflects the strength, predictability and resilience of Pembina's business. In 2023, we saw growing volumes across many systems, supplemented by the value enhancement from another strong year from Pembina's marketing business. Positive momentum in the Western Canadian Sedimentary Basin could be seen by more than 4% year over year increase in second half volumes in the conventional pipeline business. In 2023, Pembina progressed its strategy by sustaining and enhancing our business through various accomplishments we shared throughout the past year, including signing new contracts from the Peace Pipeline system, signing new and or extending existing contracts to the Redwater complex, reactivating the Nipissippi pipeline and approving new projects such as the 55,000 barrel per day RFS-four expansion, the expansion of the Northeast BC pipeline and a cogeneration facility at PGI's KaBOB III plant. Speaker 200:02:52In the 4th quarter, positive developments continued, including the announcement of a $3,100,000,000 acquisition of Enbridge's interest in Alliance Ox Sable. Pembina's business is built around integrated difficult to replicate assets that provide an enduring competitive advantage and unequaled market access for customers. Alliance Pipeline and Aux Sable are world class energy infrastructure assets and increasing our existing ownership of them will further enhance our growing franchise. We continue to expect the acquisition to close in the first half of twenty twenty four subject to the satisfaction or waiver of customary closing conditions. On the commercial front, we announced yesterday that in support of Dow's Path to 0 project, Pembina has entered into long term agreements to supply up to 50,000 barrels per day of ethane and for the associated transportation on the Alberta ethane gathering system. Speaker 200:03:42The Path to 0 project is an important development for the WCSB, representing a significant increase to the current ethane market in Alberta. Given Pembina's existing leading ethane supply and transportation business and integrated value chain, there are multiple opportunities for the company to benefit from this new development through both the existing asset base and new investment opportunities. During the Q4, we also closed open seasons on the Coshan pipeline for a total of 90,000 barrels per day and signed an incremental contract with an anchor customer for service on the Nipissippi pipeline, which is now contracted for more than half the capacity on a long term basis with line of sight to the asset being fully contracted by the end of 2024. On the major project front, we continue to progress our Phase 8 Peace pipeline expansion and our RFS IV expansion of the Redwater complex. On the Phase 8 project, the capital budget has been further revised lower to $430,000,000 which is $100,000,000 under the original budget. Speaker 200:04:37The construction is expected to be completed in the Q1 of 2024 with pipeline and facility commissioning and start up expected in the Q2 of 2024. Our experience of Phase 8 is another example supporting Pembina's track record of strong project execution. Additionally, Pembina Gas Infrastructure has approved an expansion at the Wapiti plant that will increase natural gas processing capacity by 115,000,000 cubic feet per day and is expected to be in service in the first half of twenty twenty six. The Wapiti expansion is being driven by strong customer demand supported by growing Montney production and will be fully underpinned by long term take or pay contracts. Finally, yesterday, we provided an update on the Cedar LNG project. Speaker 200:05:20Cedar LNG has substantially completed several key project deliverables, including obtaining material regulatory approvals, advancing inter project agreements with Coastal GasLink and LNG Canada, signing a heads of agreement with Samsung Heavy Industries in Black and Veatch and executing a lump sum engineering procurement and construction agreement to provide Cedar LNG with the necessary services to construct the project. While a lot has been accomplished, there remain a number of schedule driven interconnected elements that require resolution prior to making the final investment decision. These include binding commercial offtake, obtaining 3rd party consent and project financing. On this basis, a final investment decision is now expected in the middle of 2024. I will now turn things over to Cam to discuss in more detail financial highlights for the 2023 Q4 and full year. Speaker 100:06:08Thanks, Scott. As Scott noted, Temera recorded 4th quarter adjusted EBITDA of $1,030,000,000 This represents a 12% increase over the same period in the prior year. In pipelines, factors impacting the quarter primarily included higher volumes on the Peace Pipeline System, Drayton Valley Pipeline and on the recently reactivated Nipissippi Pipeline, higher pulls primarily on the Cochin Pipeline and Peace Pipeline Systems, largely related to contractual inflation adjustments and lower contributions from the Alliance pipeline, primarily due to lower interruptible tolls and volumes. In facilities, factors impacting the quarter included higher contribution from the PGI assets, primarily from the former Energy Transfer Canada plants, the HEIGHTS plant and the Dawson assets due to higher volumes and higher revenue at Vancouver Wharves. In Marketing and New Ventures, 4th quarter results reflect the net impact of higher contribution from Aux Sable, lower natural gas and crude oil marketing margins, largely offset by higher NGL margins and realized losses on commodity related derivatives in the Q4 of 2023 compared to realized gains in the Q4 of 2022. Speaker 100:07:18Finally, in the Corporate segment, 4th quarter results were largely consistent with the same period in the prior year. Earnings in the Q4 were $698,000,000 This represents a 187% increase over the same period in the prior year. In addition to the factors impacting adjusted EBITDA, the increase in earnings in the Q4 was primarily due to the net impact of the impairment reversal related to the Nippon 60 pipeline, the Ruvi settlement provision and associated legal fees incurred in the Q4 of 2022, lower project write offs, higher depreciation and unrealized gain on commodity related derivatives compared to a loss in the Q4 of 2022, lower net finance costs and higher income tax expense and the recognition of a previously unrecognized deferred tax asset. Total volumes were 3,450,000 barrels per day in the 4th quarter. This represents an increase of 2% over the same period in the prior year, reflecting the net impact of the reactivation of the Nipissippi pipeline, higher volumes on the Peace and Drayton Valley pipelines, higher volumes from PGI and lower volumes at the Redwater complex. Speaker 100:08:27The 4th quarter contributed to full year results that included earnings of $1,776,000,000 record adjusted EBITDA of $3,824,000,000 which was 2% higher than in 2022 and exceeded the high end of the company's original guidance range. Cash flow from operating activities of $2,635,000,000 and adjusted cash flow from operating activities of $2,646,000,000 Thanks to strong results, Pembina generated meaningful free cash flow, which was allocated to strengthening the balance sheet and returning capital to shareholders. In 2023, we raised the common share dividend by 2.3%, repurchased $50,000,000 of common shares and continued to reduce leverage below the low end of the target range. At December 31, 2023, based on the trailing 12 months, the ratio of proportionally consolidated debt to adjusted EBITDA was 3.3 times, reflective of our strong balance sheet and supporting a strong BBB credit rating. Speaker 200:09:28I'll now turn things back to Scott. Thanks, Cam. In closing, we are enthusiastic about the future given the current momentum in the WCSB and expected continued volume growth through 2024 and beyond. Our broader outlook remains unchanged as we see the potential for mid single digit growth driven by tangible near term catalysts, including up to approximately $2,800,000,000 cubic feet per day of new natural gas export capacity from the new West Coast LNG projects, 590,000 barrels per day of new crude oil export capacity from the expected completion of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion and potential new developments in the Alberta petrochemical industry, including significant incremental ethane demand associated with Dow's path to 0 project. Given the scope and reach of our business, Pembina is uniquely positioned to benefit from these catalysts. Speaker 200:10:18Our investors have come to expect strong and consistent financial leadership from us demonstrated by a secure and growing dividend and unwavering commitment to our financial guardrails, a low risk and primarily fee based business with high take or pay or cost service contributions and a strong balance sheet. You can expect us to continue to execute our strategy with the same financial discipline that has made us successful to date. In closing, I believe the next 5 years will be an exciting time in the Canadian energy industry. With exceptional resources, greater access to global markets and leading environmental and social performance standards, Canada's energy industry has an opportunity for greatness. I'm extremely proud of what Pembina and the rest of our industry do to ensure responsibly produced energy is available to meet growing global demand. Speaker 200:11:02Thank you for joining us this morning. Operator, please go ahead and open up the line for questions. Operator00:11:07Thank And your first question comes from the line of Jeremy Tonet from JPMorgan. Your line is open. Speaker 300:11:45Hi, good morning. Speaker 200:11:47Good morning, Jeremy. Speaker 300:11:50Just wanted to go into the Dow announcement a little bit more as far as this ethane supply agreement is concerned. I'm wondering if you could frame up, I guess, is this all incremental ethane extraction kind of upside new to the system? Is there any redirection? And also how much of this would you characterize as brownfield versus greenfield investments here? Just trying to get a sense for what the project economics could look like here. Speaker 400:12:17Good morning, Jeremy. Jared here. Yes, great question. So super excited to announce our contribution to Dow's net 0 cracker here in Alberta. With respect to our supply, it is going to be a material increase to Pembina's overall supply. Speaker 400:12:35It will require us to spend incremental capital with respect to getting that supply. We've spoken previously about RFS III that was originally designed as a C3 plus fractionator, but has the optionality for us to put DF on it. So that would be a brownfield expansion. There are other opportunities at Empress and through PGI and or Pembina wholly owned extraction assets that we see opportunities. We also obviously see a massive positive with respect to utilization across our asset base. Speaker 400:13:12And with 50,000 barrels of ethane, obviously, a punch of C3 plus comes along with that. So, it is going to be a mix of brownfield and greenfield opportunities for Pembina and higher utilization across the board. And then on the eggs pipeline, Pembina has announced that we're going to be 50,000 barrels. We fully expect that we're not the only contributor to Dallas supply portfolio. We don't know where the other portions of that supply portfolio are coming from. Speaker 400:13:41So once we understand where that's coming from, we'll be in a better position to update the all on eggs expansions. Speaker 300:13:52Got it. That's very helpful there. And is there any way to frame what the potential capital deployment sizing or timeframe or sizing really could be for this? Speaker 200:14:06Yes. Jeremy, it's Scott here. We've been progressing, as Jared pointed out, multiple options. We're working the engineering and the economics of all of those. So I would say probably by mid year we'll be in a better position to update the market and kind of which projects we predict will be going forward. Speaker 200:14:25But suffice to say, no material CapEx in 2024. Speaker 300:14:31Got it. Understood. And just one last one, if I could. Nipissippi, pipe and reactivation here. Just wondering if you could speak a bit more on the market drivers to this in, I guess, commercial momentum here? Speaker 300:14:45What you see in the market? Is there potential to could this be fully filled up? What type of time frame could that materialize over and what are the drivers here? Speaker 400:14:58I'll take that again, Jeremy. So the drivers are the Clearwater formation. So a lot of activity in that neighborhood. And we expect the pipeline to honestly be fully contracted by the end of 2024. We put it back into service last year. Speaker 400:15:18We're seeing very strong utilization, physical utilization today. We've signed up incremental contracts, which I believe we announced at the end of last year. And yes, fully see line of sight to having that 100% contracted by year end. Speaker 300:15:35Got it. That's helpful. I'll leave it there. Thanks. Operator00:15:40Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Rob Hope from Scotiabank. Your line is open. Speaker 500:15:49Good morning, everyone. I want to stick on the Dow announcement and the supply in Western Canada. When you look at the options, do you expect that the incremental ethane supply sources will all be Western Canadian? Or could you be pushing some incremental barrels on Vantage? I just want to get a sense of whether or not you're expecting this all to be Western Canada or some of the Bakken? Speaker 200:16:12Yes. Rob, again, this ethane is going to be supplied from a mix of the existing portfolio as well as new. And new ethane will come from some of the various projects that we're currently evaluating as we discussed. There definitely is an option to move incremental barrels on Vantage out of the Bakken. So that is a very real possibility to supply. Speaker 500:16:40I appreciate that. And then maybe just moving over to kind of the volume outlook for 2024, a number of moving parts including, we'll call it, rather strong condi pricing offset by weak AECO pricing. When you're talking to your producer customers, how do you think volumes progress through the year? Should we see a little bit of softness in the front part and then ramping up into LNG Canada in 2025? Speaker 200:17:07Yes. Rob, I think we continue to believe in that mid single digit growth that we talked about, but we are monitoring producer CapEx budgets pretty closely and have ongoing discussions. And so certainly it's on the back it's top of mind in terms of what producers are going to do throughout the rest of the year. But to your point, obviously, we'd like AECO to be a little bit higher for our producing community, but with oil at $77 condensate premium and Canadian dollar earning over $100 for your condensate carries the day a lot of the time. And so we still believe that our producers' economics are very robust just given where condensate pricing is. Speaker 200:17:56But we are certainly watching producer budgets given the weakness in AECO. Speaker 100:18:01And I would just add to that, Rob, on top of liquids market or the condensate market, obviously, the NGL market has bounced around a little bit. But certainly, December, January and into February here, we've seen some strength there. And obviously, the arb into the Far East markets continues to be open and supportive for that as well. So we do see that buffering the weaker gas prices as well. Speaker 600:18:29Thank you. Operator00:18:33And your next question comes from the line of Linda Ezergailis from TD Cowen. Your line is Speaker 700:18:40Cowen. Recognizing we'll likely get an update on Cedar LNG midyear. Just wondering how we might think about the bookends of cost estimates for the project recognizing that a few things have moved around including foreign exchange since you first announced the project? Speaker 100:19:02Yes. Thanks, Linda. It's Cam here. I guess we'll continue to defer being very specific about that question until we can really tell the whole story around the opportunity. I mean, obviously, when we bought into that project, we announced the capital cost of in the mid-two billion dollars range. Speaker 100:19:27Obviously, the world has changed since then, and I think we all recognize that it's going to be higher than that. That said, when we look at Cedar from a global competitiveness standpoint, we see that it continues to stack up very well from a cost per tonne basis against the North American alternatives into the global markets, reflecting both the capital intensity but also the West Coast advantages in terms of shipping that Cedar enjoys. So recognizing that there's a desire for more specificity, we'll probably leave it at that until we can tell the full story. Speaker 700:20:05Okay. And maybe as a follow-up, if you can help us understand, given all of what you just shared in terms of that compelling advantage, has anything changed about your return expectations for the project? Would you expect kind of similar returns even with a higher capital cost or potentially higher given the compelling, locational advantages or maybe were your initial returns higher and they've come down a bit? Is there anything that you can point towards directionally? Speaker 100:20:39Yes. I would say from where we look at this project from this point in the development cycle, the economics of Cedar continue to reflect what we would have seen historically in terms of greenfield type returns for projects of this sort. They're clearly not where the brownfield opportunities are. And obviously, we've got a number of those as well. But they would continue to be in that same sort of historical range, that mid- to high single digit kind of range. Speaker 700:21:14Thank you. And just maybe commercially as well, recognizing that there's a few moving parts. Can you talk about what the potential sticking points are about getting to firm offtake agreements? And what sort of mix of take or pay versus fee for service or other attributes would you be looking for in any offtake agreements? Speaker 200:21:38Linda, it's Scott here. I think really it's time. There's just a lot of different agreements that have to be put in place. And so we're continuing to progress detailed negotiations, but a lot of it is just due to time and the interdependency of so many different agreements on this project. In terms of our structure, recall that this project will be project financed. Speaker 200:22:06And so just by the nature of that, this project will need to have significant underpinning in order to proceed on that basis. Operator00:22:15Thank you. Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Robert Catellier from CIBC Capital Markets. Your line is open. Speaker 800:22:29Hey, good morning. I have a follow-up here on the ethane supply agreement. I'm wondering if you could explain the exposure that you have on that agreement to commodity prices and volumes? Speaker 100:22:48Yes, Rob. I mean, I think that if you think about the way that ethane is contracted in Western Canada, it's obviously different than other parts of North America. And so generally speaking, the way that works is that it's ultimately for folks like us a fee based structure. But the way that Pembina really makes money is on this is through transportation and provision of the volumes through the rest of the asset base. So as we sit today through the conventional business, through the transmission business, through the deep cuts and of the gas plants and the fractionators, it's really sort of the tolling model that is the value driver for the ethane molecule along with the associated C3 plus that comes with those molecules when you extract it. Speaker 800:23:44Right. So to the extent the market is short or tight and maybe short volumes or the price is up, that ultimately is borne by the counterparty? Speaker 100:23:58That's correct. Speaker 800:24:01Right. And then I wondered if you could just talk a little bit about the degree of additional costs for some of the emerging regulations and amended methane regulation, for example, clean fuel regulation, etcetera, etcetera. Typically, we would expect any change of law or tightening of these regulations to have some cost sharing with your customers. But as it seems like a pretty, I guess, a continually evolving landscape and as far as environmental regulation goes. But as you look over the horizon the next 3 to 5 years, is there any substantial change to your cost structure that's not otherwise shared with shippers or producers? Speaker 200:24:52Not at this stage, Rob. I mean, I think we're continuing to assess all the existing and pending regulations. We continue to work on decarbonization of all the assets and really understanding where we can get the best emission reductions for the best dollar value. As it relates to contracting, as you pointed out, many of the assets have cost sharing arrangements, which protects us a little bit. But we also have assets like Empress where we're fully exposed and we're working on what the implications are that. Speaker 200:25:26But at this stage, there's no, what I'd call, material change in the cost structure. Speaker 800:25:33Okay. Last question for me is just, are there any significant implications for Chevron selling their Duvernay assets in terms of your business development? Speaker 400:25:47No major implications, Rob, actually. We're excited. We're going to support Chevron through the transaction. Chevron, I would say, has taken a modest approach to the development in the area. And we believe that upon divestment of those assets, the acquirer may take a more advanced or aggressive approach on developing those resource, which will benefit PGI and the Speaker 200:26:12rest of Pembina's infrastructure? Yes, Rob. If you look back at say over the last 18 months, there's been a fair bit of M and A activity in Canada on the asset side. And I think what we've seen historically has been new acquirers tend to deploy more capital than previous owners, whether that's to make their transactions go around or that's obviously what they believe in at the time of the transaction. And so we have found M and A over the last 18 months to actually be an acceleration and you've seen that in the increased utilization across the PGI assets. Speaker 200:26:46So Chevron is a great counterparty, but we would expect potentially higher volumes over the relatively near future through an acquisition of a third party. Speaker 800:27:00Okay. Thank you and congratulations on all your business momentum. Speaker 200:27:04Thank you. Operator00:27:07And your next question comes from the line of Puneet Satish from Wells Fargo. Your line is open. Speaker 900:27:14Thanks. I guess two more questions here on the Dow agreement. So the supply agreement of 50,000 barrels, as you mentioned, I mean, that's not the full ethane supply. I think it's only about half of the crackers needs. And I guess I'm just struggling to think about who could satisfy the balance of the ethane just given your position. Speaker 900:27:36But I guess even if there's another 50,000 barrels of ethane coming from other plants in the region, can you still pick up a benefit by moving some of that third party supply through your pipelines? Speaker 200:27:49Yes. Again, we don't have line of sight to where the rest of the ethane is coming from and in what phase and what timeline. So potentially a question for others, but depending on where that ethane comes from, we would have an opportunity to move in on our pipelines. Again, we have the only C2 plus pipeline in operations today, gathering lines. And so we have a pretty big frac footprint. Speaker 200:28:19So there is the potential, but at this stage, we're not aware or where the rest of the ethane is coming from. Speaker 900:28:28Got it. And then kind of second question on this project. I mean, you talked about the potential to produce more propane and butane from increasing the NGL cut on your plants for the project. I guess, how are you thinking about the end markets for this incremental supply of C3 plus Is there maybe enough to consider an LPG export dock expansion? Or will it get railed into the U. Speaker 900:28:53S? Speaker 1000:28:57It's Chris here. Yes, we certainly are tracking that closely and recognize that with the ethane will come more propane and busane. It's likely that it's going to find a path to the West Coast. So we're back revisiting what we can do at our facility. We're looking at what others are doing and watching that closely and I think it will inevitably spur something on the West Coast. Speaker 900:29:23Got it. Thank you. Operator00:29:27And your next question comes from the line of Robert Kwan from RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open. Speaker 1100:29:35Good morning. I can stop start with the topic of the day without. So you talked about the potential to put a DS on the front of our S3. What other capital could you see going into the system, whether it's compression or deep cuts out in the field? And just under the agreement then with Dow, given you're still working through costs of everything, does the agreement specify return on the capital? Speaker 1100:30:02Or are you taking the risk on how all of this capital needs to come together within whatever fee you've agreed with, with Dow? Speaker 200:30:14Yes, Rob. I have to be careful what I say because we have obviously confidential arrangements, but we are obligated it is a supply arrangement, so we're obligated provide the ethane. We are again, going back to the initial comments, we have a mix here where a significant portion will come from existing assets or very light capital touch to existing assets. And then in terms of the new supply, we do have a mix. And so you pointed out potentially, as an example, incremental deep cuts, RFS, 3, DAT, there's other opportunities that we just can't talk about at this stage that we're exploring. Speaker 200:30:57And so for us, it'll be about how to get the most ethane for the least amount of cost and that's something that we're currently assessing right now. And I know there's a lot of questions on it, but we're just not at the stage where we can provide that detail and we'll look to do that once we make some of these decisions on a go forward basis. But it will be an overall mix of existing assets, light touch brownfield and then some incremental greenfield investments. Speaker 1100:31:23Got it. And Scott, can I just square your comments here though up with an answer earlier that if the market is caught short and there is a need to go out and attract ethane supply at a high price? I know that most of ethane is cost of service in the province. But if you have to do that, there was a statement that is going to be borne by Dow. So how does that square up just in terms of your obligations to supply? Speaker 100:31:48Yes. Sorry, Rob, I'll clarify my comments. What I meant was that the cost the pass through to ultimately the producer who is providing the ethane, there's an arrangement there. But it's a supply agreement and we have the obligation to supply. So we have a capital cost element to that, but there's the price is fixed. Speaker 1100:32:19Okay. If I could just shift to Cedar, you listed a number of things that you got to work through. One of them that you didn't list though is just around costs. So coming out of the FEED study, are you comfortable with where those costs are? How you're going Speaker 200:32:36to manage the risk? Speaker 1100:32:37And it really is now how do you deal with the commercial on the other side? I guess specifically on cost, can you just talk about how you are planning on managing cost overrun risk and specifically you've talked about fixed price EPCs, but how are you planning on protecting yourself against the material type of overruns that we've seen in other projects that have led to contractor bankruptcies? Speaker 200:33:04Yes, Rob. I'll start there and Stu feel free to jump in. But again, part of the timing around this project was ensuring that we had a very robust EPC contract lump sum turnkey. Again, this is a ship being built in Korea in Samsung's shipyard under a controlled environment, with LNG modules being placed on top of it. And that is all under a lump sum turnkey arrangement, which is the vast majority of the cost, which again, we'll lay this all out if we are fortunate enough to make an FID decision. Speaker 200:33:45So I'm not trying to be coy. There's just a lot of moving pieces. But on that piece, we feel very, very comfortable given the robustness of the contract that we negotiated that the vast majority of that price has been pushed off onto our EPC contract. The remaining price that's on risk for Pembina is pipeline and transmission lines. And it's a 9 kilometer pipeline, 10 kilometer pipeline. Speaker 200:34:14I think given our track record, I would hope that market has some confidence around our ability to deliver on that. I mean, you just saw Phase 8 come in materially under budget. So we feel confident around doing our core business on this asset. And then of course on top of that we have typical project contingency and protection. So overall, we feel good mainly because of we went with a lump sum engineering contract and those always cost a little bit more. Speaker 200:34:45But from a risk reward basis, we like that approach to major projects. Speaker 1100:34:51Totally. It sounds like I just need a quick one here just on the Alliance Aux Sable deal. You've got AHSR, but can you just comment on where you are in the Canadian Competition Speaker 300:35:00Bureau approval? Speaker 100:35:04Yes, Rob. I would say that timing wise, you can see that we reiterated our second half our first half of twenty twenty four timeframe. You're correct. We've got the waiting period expiry on HSR and Transport Canada. I would say we don't have any better information at this point on the Competition Bureau process to refine that view anymore. Speaker 100:35:27Things are progressing as expected as planned, but no sort of further visibility at this point to try and narrow that date. Speaker 200:35:37Okay. Thank you. Operator00:35:41Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Zack Van Averine from TPH. Your line is open. Speaker 600:35:50Hey guys, thanks for taking the question. Just going to the Fort SaaS frac markets, it seems like a lot of those facilities are running close to full. I was just curious if you guys had any incremental room to capture if spot rates moved up? And then as you talk to producers, are frac constraints becoming more and more of a concern? Speaker 400:36:12Yes. Good morning. Jared here. The answer to your question is yes. But we it is becoming a concern for our customers, but it's also we don't have a lot of opportunity unfortunately because we're fully contracted for the most part. Speaker 400:36:28We don't have a lot of opportunity to get a lot of spot rates. The NGL season does start on April 1, so the teams are obviously in deep negotiations with respect to annual deals. But the majority of our contracts at our fractionation complex are long term in nature, 5, 10 plus years. So unfortunately, where we can grab those opportunities, we do, but it is long term in nature. Speaker 200:36:55But certainly future frac negotiations continue to progress. And with RFS being the next frac in service, RFS IV being the next frac in service, we have the option to continue to progress those negotiations and sign up incremental barrels. That's predicted to come online in the first half of twenty twenty six and is really the next material frac expansion that we're aware of and so those discussions continue. Speaker 600:37:28Okay, perfect. That's super helpful. And then one on coaching, it seems like coaching and competing subscribed shipper interest. I was curious if you could squeeze any more capacity out of that system with smaller capital efficient solutions or maybe there's a bigger project you guys could do Speaker 400:37:48as well? I'll take that again. So, Quotient since we've acquired that asset in December of 2019, we've increased the throughput by roughly, I think 25%, 30% and safely. So I would say that we're meeting all of customer demand today. Our availability is extremely high. Speaker 400:38:11But I don't think there's without a major expansion, there's not a lot of room unfortunately left on that asset. Speaker 600:38:21Okay, perfect. Super helpful as well. And that's all I had for today. Thanks guys. Operator00:38:28Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Patrick Kenny from National Bank Financial. Your line is open. Speaker 1200:38:35Yes, good morning guys. Just on the Wapiti expansion, nice to see the commercial support there. Wondering if you could just update us on what other G and P expansion opportunities might be in the queue across your portfolio based on the customer activity levels that you're seeing in the field these days? Speaker 400:38:57I can't speak to specifics, Pat, but I think a couple of quarters ago, I mentioned that we had line of sight to a substantial amount of capital to be deployed on a gross and a net basis through PGI. But obviously with the K3 cogen, which is going to obviously increase the reliability of that asset, lower the carbon intensity, the Wapiti expansion that will utilize the acid gas transmission line that we acquired through the Energy Transfer Canada acquisition. We have other opportunities to do, I would call it what field based processing, but incrementally through PGI with the partnership with Dow and our incremental C2 supply agreement, we have opportunities to deploy more capital on the field based extraction as well. So can't get into the specifics, but lots of opportunities for sure. Speaker 1200:39:52And then maybe from a tuck in or M and A perspective, curious Jared, if you're seeing any shift in producer appetite for 3rd party gas processing services, just given the outlook for gas prices at least through the summer and maybe their need to secure downstream access and maximize the value of their liquids production within their overall netbacks? Speaker 200:40:21Yes, I would say no material change in the market. There continues to be it's very producer specific in terms of certain producers want to own and operate and that's core to their business and others look at what opportunities there are for midstreamers to enhance their capital allocation decisions. And so I would say it's both discussions are ongoing and always have been and it's really producer specific, but I wouldn't say there's any kind of material step change given gas prices or anything like that. It would be normal course. Speaker 400:40:55I would say though, Pat, that any acquisitions we do through PGI, obviously we have to be on side with our partner, but we really want to make sure that we're focused on the geology that we're buying processing assets that have long reserve life indexes, and then obviously contribute to the rest of Pembina's value chain. Speaker 1200:41:16Okay, that's great. Thanks guys. Speaker 200:41:19Thanks, Pat. Operator00:41:23Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of our Q and A session. I would like to turn it back to Pembina's President and Chief Executive Officer, Scott Burrows for closing remarks. Speaker 200:41:35Well, thank you everyone. Thanks to our staff that are listening in to our customers. We really appreciate all the hard work and thank you to all the investors and analysts on the call. 2023 was an exceptional year for our company and we're pretty excited about what we can deliver in 2024. So thank you everyone. Operator00:41:57Thank you, presenters. And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.Read morePowered by