Methanex Q4 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

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February 29, 2024

There are 8 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good morning, and welcome to Orion Group Holdings 4th Quarter and Full Year 2023 Earnings Conference Call and Webcast. All participants will be in a listen only mode. Please also note today's event is being recorded. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to Margaret Boyce, Investor Relations for Orion. Please go ahead, ma'am.

Speaker 1

Thank you, operator, and thank you all for joining us today to discuss Orion Group Holdings' 4th quarter and full year 2023 financial results. We issued our earnings release aftermarket last night. It's available in the Investor Relations section of our website at oriongroupholdingsinc.com. I'm here today with Travis Boone, Chief Executive Officer and Scott Vanish, Chief Financial Officer. On today's call, management will provide prepared remarks and then we'll open up the call for your questions.

Speaker 1

Before we begin, I'd like to remind you that today's comments will include forward looking statements under the federal securities laws. Forward looking statements are identified by words such as will, be, intend, believe, expect, anticipate or other comparable words and phrases. Statements that are not historical facts are forward looking statements. Our actual financial condition and results of operations may vary materially from those contemplated by such forward looking statements. Discussion of the factors that could cause our results to differ materially from these forward looking statements are contained in our SEC filings, including our reports on Form 10 Q and 10 ks.

Speaker 1

With that, I'd now like to turn the call over to Travis. Travis, please go ahead.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Margaret, and welcome to our Q4 and year end 2023 call. Good morning. I'll start by saying that I'm pleased with our progress on transforming the business throughout 2023. We did what we said we would do and the business is much healthier. To summarize our Q4 and full year results, we made the profitability of our business a priority over revenue.

Speaker 2

Our Q4 revenues grew 3% to 202,000,000 dollars and year end revenues declined slightly to $712,000,000 versus $748,000,000 in 2022. On the surface, that's not impressive. But as I communicated to you throughout the year, driving the top line for the sake of revenue growth was not our objective. In construction, if you don't have discipline, you can win bids to grow revenue without making money until you put yourself out of business. That was the situation when Scott and I joined Orion in late 2022.

Speaker 2

And our top priority was to transform the business into a company that can deliver profitable and sustainable growth. We now have strong backlog to support revenue growth in 20 24 be profitable at the same time. A year ago, we laid out a 3 point strategic plan to work toward long term sustainable growth, which included improving the profitability of the concrete business, strengthening business development to drive growth, and investment and resources to realize Orion's full potential. We worked that plan throughout 2023 and accomplished our goals for the year. Concrete is now profitable, but we will continue to drive higher margins in that business.

Speaker 2

We have invested in strategic growth and have vastly improved our business development team and processes, which is driving growth. Lastly, we significantly improved our balance sheet and liquidity. We made significant progress optimizing our business and we strategically invested in our fleet to better prepare for the future. We still have work to do, but today our business is much healthier as measured by a significant improvement in profitability metrics. Gross profit margin increased 6 20 basis points to 11.4% versus 5.2% 4th quarter last year.

Speaker 2

Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $14,800,000 or a 7.3 percent adjusted EBITDA margin, a significant improvement over $3,200,000 or a 1.6 percent adjusted EBITDA margin in Q4 2022. As we communicated from the beginning, reversing the margin decline in our concrete business was a top priority and in March it turned the corner. On an adjusted EBITDA margin basis concrete delivered 5.3% versus a negative 1.8% year over year. Don't get me wrong, growing the top line is important. And in 2023, we made significant progress in strengthening our business development efforts, which I'll cover more later.

Speaker 2

What's important is winning the right projects for Orion, high value long term projects like Pearl Harbor and the Grand Bahamas dry dock. Awards like these demonstrate our ability to win large complex projects that are reputation builders in our markets. And while we are pursuing large projects, we are also applying a disciplined approach to projects of all sizes. The go forward story is how Orion is now set up to unlock its full potential. 1st, winning projects with the right pricing is critical to driving profitability.

Speaker 2

That required us to implement guardrails such as minimum bid margins and pursuing work where we have strong value proposition that differentiates Orion from competition, as well as bolstering our management oversight with experienced leaders. However, you can't just establish and enforce new rules. The organization must understand and embrace them and that required us to reset Orion's culture. While having a strong and engaging culture is always an ongoing process, in 2023, we accomplished a great deal to strengthen our organization and its identity in the marketplace. We put disciplines, processes and procedures in place, so expectations are crystal clear.

Speaker 2

And everyone is focused on the same mission, delivering predictable excellence through outstanding execution. To achieve this, we tore down the silos that had existed for far too many years throughout the business. With the classic case of what happens when acquisitions are not fully integrated, there are duplicate platforms, business unit autonomy, friction over resources, overlooked talent and other challenges. And since these disciplines are all interrelated, we were missing many opportunities to collaborate and cross sell. Fast forward 1 year later, Orion is now one company pulling in the same direction.

Speaker 2

We rebranded all of our operations under the Orion banner, including the rebranding of TAS Concrete Construction as Orion. We are also rebuilding an IT infrastructure that will give us a better line of sight across the entire business, as well as the capability of scale. Scott will give more detail in his remarks. Above all, I'm especially thrilled with the caliber of leaders that we attracted to Orion this year. Alan Ekman, formerly with AECOM, joined us as a Senior Vice President of Strategy and Growth.

Speaker 2

This was a new role that we critically needed to drive strategy, business development, sales training and future M and A. We also hired Chip Earl as our new in house counsel. Chip has an impressive legal, compliance and risk management background. Louisiana is an important market for Orion and we now have a new office in New Orleans to expand our presence in the state where we began working in 1906. Since Scott and I came on board, our culture and our senior leadership is strikingly different than a year ago.

Speaker 2

We are fostering a winning mindset, celebrating our achievements and pushing ourselves to higher performance. By unifying under the Orion brand, we will develop a more recognizable presence in the national market, unlock new potential for growth, leverage collaboration across teams, and support our mission to deliver high quality solutions with predictable excellence. To reflect our 1 Orion brand, we are launching our new website on March 4th and would be happy for you to go check it out when it goes live next week. With these critical building blocks in place, we are turning our full attention to building momentum in the business. In 2024, we expect our performance to improve with a gradual build throughout the year.

Speaker 2

However, we believe 2025 will be the year when transformation starts to really kick in for several key reasons. In a little over a year, we almost quadrupled our pipeline of opportunity from $3,000,000,000 to over $11,000,000,000 This reflects not only the measures we've taken to transform Orion, but also an improving market outlook. We're expecting to see increased RFP activity from our marine clients this year in the public and private sector. The core is undertaking a number of capital construction projects that we're preparing to bid on, including the pent up demand for maintenance dredging of waterways, which would benefit Orion. Based on our Pearl Harbor work, Marine is also well positioned to participate from naval defense spending in the Pacific.

Speaker 2

Add to that $10,000,000,000 that is earmarked for coaster restoration in Louisiana in the coming years, as well as the port expansion capital projects necessary to accommodate larger ships and more warehousing capacity. Orion Concrete might also benefit from public funding for infrastructure projects. This would be a new opportunity for Orion since our work in Dallas and Houston core markets is mostly in the private sector. With any interest rate relief, we believe several private sector construction projects would be green lighted to support the outsized growth in these two markets. We also see an opportunity to expand our concrete business presence in Florida.

Speaker 2

Bottom line, there are strong tailwinds and a ton of opportunity in our space that requires the special skills and experience that limits competition. We have the best people in the industry who are laser focused on execution, growing revenues and driving margins. I'm very optimistic that Orion is set up for success in 2024, 2025 and beyond. Now I'll turn this call over to Scott to discuss our operations and financials.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Travis, and good morning, everyone. During 2023, we were hard at work implementing changes to position Orion for future success. As Travis outlined, we invested in critical areas of the business to prepare for the growth opportunities in front of us. A big focus this year was investing in technology replacing the outdated infrastructure that we inherited. We redesigned and rebuilt our IT infrastructure, moving from housing our servers in our offices to hosting our IT systems in state of the art data centers in Austin and Las Vegas.

Speaker 3

With this move, our systems are now more secure and reliable with greater flexibility and adaptability. We completed the implementation of a CRM system to improve our business development capabilities. We've also implemented the 1st phase of a project management system and a P2P tool that will improve our overall project expense management capabilities. In 2024, we will continue to enhance our IT systems, migrating the Concrete business over to the same financial platform as the Marine segment, which will deliver efficiencies and greatly improve the line of sight across our entire business. With these changes, we can deliver our projects with improved financial performance.

Speaker 3

As mentioned previously, we need to consistently invest in modernizing and refurbishing our fleet to better service our customers and prepare for growth. In 2023, our maintenance capital expenditures were lower than historical averages. This year, we expect maintenance CapEx to return to historical levels. Additionally, we will be investing in growth capital to be ready to execute more work for our customers. To expand our fleet in a cost effective way, we recently purchased a dredge under construction and we'll be investing over the next 2 years to build it out.

Speaker 3

We expect it to be fully operational in 2025. We were successful in strengthening the balance sheet and monetizing our non core real estate assets in 2023. Securing our ABL credit facility was key to strengthening our financial flexibility. We closed over $25,000,000 in equipment and real estate sale leaseback transactions last year. And last week, we announced that we entered into a $34,000,000 land sale contract for our East West Jones transaction, we will have unlocked almost $60,000,000 of value from our balance sheet to reduce debt and invest in growing our business in 2024.

Speaker 3

To wrap up on the balance sheet, as of December 31, we had $30,900,000 cash and total debt outstanding of $37,200,000 At the end of the quarter, we had no outstanding borrowings under our revolving credit facility. Moving on to our financial results. 4th quarter revenue increased 2.8% to $201,600,000 primarily due to an increase in marine revenue related to the Pearl Harbor drydock project, partially offset by lower concrete revenue following our decision to exit the unprofitable Central Texas Concrete Business. 4th quarter gross profit increased to $23,000,000 or 11.4 percent of revenue compared to 10,200,000 dollars or 5.2 percent last year. This 6 20 basis point increase was primarily driven by margin improvements in both sections, reflecting higher quality projects and improved execution, partially offset by a lower margin and mix of dredging revenue.

Speaker 3

SG and A expenses for the Q4 were $17,200,000 or 8.5 percent of revenue, up from 13 percent of revenue in the Q4 of last year. SG and A expenses grew due to increased IT and business development spending and higher legal costs related to some lingering project claims. Adjusted net income for the quarter was $2,600,000 or an adjusted net income of $0.08 per diluted share compared to an adjusted net loss of $3,700,000 or an adjusted loss of $0.12 per diluted share in the prior year period. This result excludes $7,000,000 or $0.21 of diluted earnings per share of non recurring items. Our GAAP net loss for the Q4 of 2023 was 4 point $4,000,000 or $0.13 loss per diluted share.

Speaker 3

EBITDA for the Q4 was $6,500,000 and adjusted EBITDA was $14,800,000 Adjusted EBITDA margin was 7.3%, up from 1.6% in the prior year period. Turning to bidding metrics, in the 4th quarter we bid on approximately $1,100,000,000 worth of opportunities winning $86,300,000 This resulted in a contract value weighted win rate of 7.6% and a book to bill ratio of 0.43 times for the quarter. As of December 31, our backlog was $762,200,000 compared with $448,800,000 dollars at December 31 last year. Breaking out our 4th quarter backlog, dollars 602,500,000 was in our Marine segment with $159,700,000 in our Concrete segment. In addition, we have been awarded over $120,000,000 of new marine segment project work that was not included in our backlog at the end of the 4th quarter.

Speaker 3

As Travis mentioned, we are delivering on our promise to improve profitability by implementing discipline in our bidding process and winning quality work at attractive pricing. During the Q4, our adjusted EBITDA margins moved closer to our target of low double digit adjusted EBITDA margins for marine and high single digit adjusted EBITDA margins for the Concrete segment. Adjusted EBITDA margin in our Marine segment increased to 8.4%, up from 5.1% last year. And our Concrete segment adjusted EBITDA margin improved to 5.3%, up from negative 1.8 EBITDA margin last year. Looking ahead to 2024 and beyond, we're excited about our outlook.

Speaker 3

Our business development efforts are producing an expanding pipeline of attractive projects. We anticipate growing the top line substantially over 2023 and we expect revenue to ramp up throughout the year. Of course, as with any project based business, there may be lumpiness quarter to quarter based on project milestones. In Hawaii, our Pearl Harbor project is not ramping as fast as we anticipated in the Q1 due to shipping delays equipment and supplies related to the drought in the Panama Canal, as well as unforeseen delays on the project out of our control. We expect revenue from Hawaii to ramp throughout 2024 and build through the year being stronger in the second half.

Speaker 3

We are increasing our CapEx spend over 2023 to upgrade our fleet so that we are prepared for the industry tailwinds that are expected to accelerate through 2025 and beyond. As we grow the top line, we plan to continuously improve margins by managing our business more efficiently and productively. We are confident in our ability to continue to improve returns on capital and deliver increasing value to our shareholders. And with that, we'll open up the call for questions.

Operator

Our first question today comes from Joe Gomes from NOBLE Capital. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 4

Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions.

Speaker 2

Good morning,

Speaker 4

Joe. So, Scott, you just touched a little bit on Hawaii, but I was wondering if you could give us a little bit more color on both the Hawaii and the Grand Bahama projects?

Speaker 2

Sure. Is there anything specific you want me to cover Joe or?

Speaker 4

Just kind of looking for where we are. Again, you talked a little bit right there at the end on Pearl Harbor about not ramping as fast, but any additional color on that? Any color you have on Grand Bahama would be great.

Speaker 2

Sure. Both projects are going well, and we still feel very confident about the projects and margins and the ability to deliver on those projects. There was there as Scott mentioned, there was a few hiccups with the Panama Canal that were sorting through, if you will. It's been challenging. You've probably seen it in the news.

Speaker 2

There's getting materials and goods through the Panama Canal has been challenging. So we've had a little bit of little hiccups there, but we're working through that. And generally speaking, the project, as I said, is going well and just a little bit slower start of revenue than we had anticipated or planned, but it's everything is well and on track. As far as Bahama, similar story. Projects going very well.

Speaker 2

Everything is on schedule. A portion of the work got delayed. 1 of our subs got slightly delayed and that slowed the revenue, but the project is on schedule and on track. So everything is well there too.

Speaker 4

Great. Thanks for that. And then on the Concrete segment, just looking on the operating income, the loss was higher in the Q4 of 'twenty three, dollars 4,800,000 versus the $3,700,000 in 2020 2. Was there was that something you were expecting? Did the segment take a little bit of a step back during the quarter?

Speaker 4

Any more clarity there would be great. Thanks.

Speaker 3

Yes. So we had the rebranding of the concrete business under the Orion brand, which as a result of looking at that intangible on the balance sheet, didn't really have a reason to support the value that was on the balance sheet. So we had $7,000,000 intangible loss from writing that brand down in the quarter. If it were not for that, concrete, up in performance would have been much better.

Speaker 4

Okay, great. Thanks for that clarity. I'll get back in line.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Joe.

Operator

Our next question comes from Julio Romero from Sidoti and Company. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 5

Thanks. Hey, good morning, Travis and Scott. Good morning. Travis, you mentioned you expect performance hey, good morning. You mentioned you expect performance to improve with a gradual build throughout the year.

Speaker 5

And Scott, you mentioned you expect revenue to grow substantially in 'twenty four. And I assume you were talking for Orion overall, maybe in one rather than one specific segment. But can you guys just kind of walk us through the cadence expected for sales and profits across both segments in 20 24?

Speaker 3

Yes. I'll just kind of expand on it a bit. We kind of see a typical seasonal drop at the beginning of the year. We expect that to be true this year as well. But as we move through the year and Hawaii and Bahamas contribute more and more revenue as we go through the year, We expect to continually post improving results over the prior year.

Speaker 3

When I think about revenue and what it looks like in relation to 2023, we've got pretty sizable backlog going into the year. A good portion of that is expected to burn in the next 12 months. We have a lot of opportunities in the pipeline that are potentially realizable within the year as well. So we see a lot of good movement in the direction of expanding revenue. So always are going to be ups and downs in a contracting business where we work outside and have projects that start and stop at different times during the year, but the general trend we see up and right.

Speaker 5

Okay. That's very helpful. And then, looks like as you guys said last quarter, the Q4 in sales were going to be up significantly due to the project timing pushing some sales into the Q4 and you clearly weren't kidding there with the strong performance on the margin sales there. Is the Q1 still expected to be stronger than 4th or did some project timing maybe pull forward some 1Q sales, if you could speak to that? Thank you.

Speaker 3

Yes. We don't expect the Q1 to be stronger than the Q4. We do expect the Q1 to improve over the Q1 of last year. So, there's ups and downs through the year, but Q1 is typically a seasonable dip for us.

Speaker 5

Very helpful. I'll pass it on. Thanks very much.

Operator

Our next question comes from David Storms from Stonegate Capital.

Speaker 6

Hoping you could just start by giving us a little insight as to what the margin profile looks like on your backlog. Are we just about through a lot of those old legacy And then just on the liquidity front, great to see that you got East West Jones contracted. Once that's finalized, are there any other levers that you're looking to pull in order to generate more liquidity? Or do you feel like you're in

Speaker 5

a good spot once that's finalized?

Speaker 2

Probably not at that scale. There's that one, we're glad to have that thing under contract again and looking forward to getting that closed this year. But as far as any other big needle mover asset sales etcetera, we're not anticipating anything large. We've got some equipment we'll sell and some things like that, but not big needle movers.

Speaker 3

Yes, I think where we have some improvement opportunities on cash flow is in working capital as we have projects close out and retainage to go collect. I think there will be a cycle of that coming up. Also, you may have seen in our press release, we amended our credit agreement to lower our interest rate on our revolver and our term loan. That will also help our cash flow coming into next year or this year.

Speaker 6

That's very helpful. Thank you.

Speaker 4

Appreciate it.

Operator

Our next question comes from DeForest Hinman from Walthausen and Company. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 7

Hey, I'm with the Bumbershoot Holdings now, that's not correct. But yes, thanks for taking the questions. Good morning. A big component of the better returns for the equity holders is related to the interest expense. You got pretty high interest carry on the debt.

Speaker 7

I mean, obviously, some of that's going down with East West Jones being sold and then you had a little bit of relief that you discussed in the press release. But how should we be thinking about the state of the balance sheet as it relates to working capital and you have some of these larger projects and how the billings and the milestone payments work out as we go through the year? I mean, is it your expectation that there'll be a fair amount of leverage on the balance sheet as 2024 progresses? Or is it are we going to be running in a net cash position? Can you just help us understand how that looks?

Speaker 7

Because it's going to have a pretty big impact on your cash flows and your earnings power? That's my first question.

Speaker 3

Yes, appreciate. And that is something obviously that as when we came in last year, we needed to refinance our debt and it wasn't the best time to hit the market. We were able to successfully do that. Think the reduction in the interest rate that we just signed with White Oak is a reflection of both an improvement in the interest rate environment as well as our performance and how we are performing relative to the prior 12 months. They see us as an improving credit.

Speaker 3

And I think that they see as we do that we have options to improve the interest rate on our debt going forward. With our East West John sale, we will look to reduce our debt with proceeds from that. We have the opportunity to with some of our cash flow initiatives, in particular, some claims that we're pursuing that we expect to be able to monetize during the year and that'd be another opportunity to reduce our debt. Going forward, we see a role for debt on our balance sheet. We've got a lot of opportunities in our space.

Speaker 3

We think that we can take advantage of more of those opportunities with additional capital. And we're figuring the best way for us to approach that to take advantage of those opportunities in the most efficient way for our shareholders. So, still thinking about those things, but certainly looking to reduce interest expense through improved cash flow, lower rates and reduced debt balances.

Speaker 7

Okay. Just a follow-up on that commentary. Is that just on the debt side or would the Board and you consider issuing equity to go after some of those opportunities? I have a follow-up.

Speaker 2

Yes. I would say that

Speaker 3

we're not early enough in our thinking on those elements as to where we would go with the balance sheet. But I do think that we've got plenty of room, plenty of cash flow, plenty of opportunities. So, we see the way to use capital, best way to get it, we'll have discussions and figure out over the course of the next 12 months.

Speaker 7

Okay. And then on the CapEx commentary, obviously, you're basically a whole new executive team versus the prior few years. You referenced maintenance CapEx going to more of a historic level. How do you define that? Can you give us that number?

Speaker 7

And then second part of that question is you mentioned acquiring a vessel barge to do some additional spending there. I mean you do have some pretty old barges. So this is somewhat of a newer thing. Can you help us understand the outlay for the initial build slot? And then what's the total CapEx?

Speaker 7

And what's the cadence over the next couple of years there? So multipart question on CapEx. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Sure. So on the maintenance CapEx, just generally speaking, it's $15,000,000 or so is the when referencing historic levels. That's a ballpark number around $15,000,000 for maintenance CapEx. And then the additional CapEx there for building out the dredge that we purchased, there's that will be over a period of time next year or 2 to get that built out. We as you did point out, we've got some older dredges in our fleet.

Speaker 2

Although we did we have we did rebuild 1 and get it operational last year. So while it might be somewhat old, it's a pretty new piece of equipment based on the rebuild. That's kind of what we're doing with this other one we purchased. So we're working on getting our fleet up to standards for emissions and technology and the best equipment.

Speaker 3

Yes. And I think over the 2 years, we'll be able to build out this dredge at a much cheaper rate than it would cost us to start from scratch. So, I think in the course of the 24 months, it's probably $25,000,000 to $30,000,000 investment.

Speaker 7

Okay. Just for clarity, did you buy an older vessel within the just kind of intent of just doing a fairly

Speaker 2

sizable haul on it or something? It was a dredge hole that was in the process of being rebuilt by another company that we purchased at auction for a very inexpensive cost.

Speaker 7

Okay. And I'll just squeeze in the last follow-up. On the East West Jones transaction, I don't know if I didn't read through all the disclosures, but I'll just try to squeeze it in here. But did we negotiate environmental release on that property sale or do we have hypothetical environmental liability with that property going forward?

Speaker 3

Yes, it's as is where is sale.

Speaker 7

Okay. Thank you.

Speaker 3

You bet.

Operator

And our next question is a follow-up for Julio Romero from Sidoti and Company. Please go ahead with your question. Hey, thanks for taking a

Speaker 5

couple of quick follow ups. Maybe can we just speak to dredging for a little bit? Is the level of competition you saw for dredging in the Q3 still kind of ongoing? And can you maybe speak to whether those smaller competitors that were bidding for dredging in the Q3 are a little bit closer to filling up their capacity?

Speaker 2

I'd say it's a similar story, Julio. Pretty as the latter half of last year going into 'twenty four here. Some of them are busy. There hasn't been a ton of bid activity so far this year, but it's a pretty similar to what we talked about in the latter half of last year. We're optimistic that the 3rd Q4 will pick up on the dredging side of things.

Speaker 2

We've been pretty fortunate we picked up some good dredging work that has been keeping us going, but it's not at the kind of historic levels that it used to be. So we're not dead in the water, but we're not as busy as we'd like to be.

Speaker 5

Got it. And can you maybe just speak to SG and A a little bit as well and break out how much of the Q4 SG and A expense was related to higher legal claims? And maybe help us think about for SG and A spend in 2024 excluding legal?

Speaker 3

No, I would not probably going to break out the details of SG and A, but just to give you, I think that where we are 4th quarter is going to be a fairly typical number for us going forward in absolute dollars. I think with our systems investments continuing the legal expenses that have been growing, the investments that we've made in business development, most of those have kind of hit a sort of steady state. So, I think you continue at that level for the next 12 months.

Speaker 5

Got it. That's good color. Thanks very much.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Alan.

Operator

And ladies and gentlemen, with that, we'll be concluding today's question. Actually, before we conclude, if anyone would like to ask additional questions, please press star and then 1. And we do have a follow-up from DeForest Hinman from Walthausen and Company. Please go ahead with your follow-up.

Speaker 7

Hey, it's Bumbershoot Holdings. But can you give us some more color on some of these ongoing claims you referenced timing wise, size. I think there were some legacy stuff out there. You guys some work on some I think it was a runway in Alaska. I don't know if that got resolved or was something with the drainage canal in Georgia.

Speaker 7

Are those things still out there we're trying to get paid on? Are these different things? And any color there and any color on timing and potential size of those recoveries? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Yes, we've got a couple of legal matters that are going to trial this year in the middle part of the year that we're optimistic about. There's no downside for us on either one of those. Probably we're not going to get into the details about which matters they are. But we do have we have a couple of them that again we're optimistic that there'll be some upside potential on those two matters around the middle part of the year.

Speaker 7

Okay. Thank you. And then as another follow-up, you talked about some of these IT projects, previous management team is working on a lot of stuff on the IT side, I think ERP. When are those projects complete in your mind? And what do you think the costs are associated with those?

Speaker 3

Yes. In terms of when we expect those to complete, we've got kind of 3 major projects that are going on the IT front, including the P2P system, the project management system and the GL conversion for the concrete business. The first two of those are on earlier timeline. We expect those to be operational by mid year fully. And then the GL conversion that is later in the year, so that's in the second half work.

Speaker 3

We anticipate that we will complete all three of those projects in the course of the year. And in terms of the spending to do that, it's basically at the level that you see in our last several quarters. It should be continuing at that level across 3 to 4 quarters.

Operator

Okay. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Thanks.

Operator

And ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will conclude our question and answer session. I'd like to turn that floor back over to Travis Boone for any closing remarks.

Speaker 2

Thank you. First, I want to say thank you to our shareholders for your continued support of our business. We're continuing to improve our business and also want to thank our employees for their hard work that have gotten us where we are. 2023 was a challenging year for us. We had a lot of hard work, a lot of initiatives, a lot of things going on in the business and everybody leaned in and worked hard throughout the year.

Speaker 2

So definitely appreciate our employees and all their hard work every day. With that, we'll close it out and thank you all for participating today.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, with that, we'll conclude today's conference call and presentation. We thank you for attending. You may now disconnect your lines.

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Earnings Conference Call
Methanex Q4 2023
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