Dragonfly Energy Q4 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

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April 15, 2024

There are 8 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good afternoon. My name is Jenny, and I will be your operator today for Dragonfly Energy's 4th Quarter and Full Year 2023 Earnings Call. The call can be accessed along with the earnings press release and SEC filings on the Investors section of the Dragonfly Energy website found at www.dragonflyenergy.com. As a reminder, this conference call is being webcast and recorded. All attendees are in a listen only mode at this time.

Operator

During this call, the company will be making forward looking statements based on current expectations. Actual results may differ due to factors noted in the press release and in periodic SEC filings. Management will reference some non GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations to the nearest corresponding GAAP measure can be found in today's release on the company's website. I will now turn the call over to Doctor.

Operator

Dennis Fares. Please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Thank you, and thank you to everyone joining us today. 2023 was a difficult year for our core markets, which are highly dependent on consumer discretionary spending. The RV market in particular, which accounted for the majority of our revenue in 2023, continued a steady decline, which began in late 2022. Importantly, we believe that this market has bottomed, and we are finally beginning to see a recovery not only in RV shipments, but in the reincorporation of lithium as the preferred energy storage solution for the industry. And as we noted last quarter, we continue to gain share in the market with both new customer wins and new program and model wins with existing customers.

Speaker 1

So as the industry begins to recover in 2024, we expect the RV market will return as an important growth driver for the company. Our diversification into the heavy duty trucking market continues with an expanded pipeline of fleets that have either initiated pilot projects using our electric auxiliary power unit or that have committed to its incorporation. The significant return on investment combined with the resulting compliance with anti idling regulations has made our solution highly visible in the industry. The product was even recognized as one of the top 20 products of 2024 by the trade publication Heavy Duty Trucking. We expect that the deployment of our eAPU in long haul trucking fleets, combined with the application of our mobile storage solutions in liftgate applications and refrigerated trucks, will result in the heavy duty trucking market providing a significant year.

Speaker 1

In the last quarter of 2023, we began shipping batteries equipped with our proprietary DragonFly intelligence feature, which represents a significant advancement in wireless monitoring and communication in storage systems. The stability associated with wireless mesh networking is well documented in other industries and its application to storage far supersedes the existing Bluetooth standard that is typically applied for wireless battery monitoring. We are working closely with our OEM partners to further specify the information to be transmitted over the vehicle communication network, so that the storage system will be stable and robust for consumers and technicians. We expect that Dragonfly Intelligence will be included in RV models in the new model year among new and existing customers. Our direct to consumer or DTC business has been flattish yet trending towards our more differentiated products such as our larger capacity GC3 battery, which have higher average sales prices.

Speaker 1

We expect that when we release the intelligent systems for consumers, the product differentiation will allow us to expand our DTC business, primarily on larger stationary systems and marine systems, where monitoring and system health are critical to the user. What has set DragonFly Energy apart from our inception is our dual focus on product development for consumer and OEM markets and fundamental research and development. Our primary R and D focus is our proprietary dry electrode cell manufacturing process and the unique cells and chemistries that can be applied using the process, such as the solid state cell we have previously discussed. Last year, we announced that we completed our pilot line for anode and cathode production. We have since received inbound interest from large customers in consumer electronics, data center backup and automotive markets.

Speaker 1

The greatest inbound interest we have had in terms of potential scale has been from automotive. As a result of that interest, we calibrated our deposition and subsequent manufacturing processes such as formation and aging to meet customer requirements in the EV and propulsion sector. Notably, our discussions with both a large consumer electronics company and large automotive companies has revealed some unique benefits of our process that had alluded our focus to date. More specifically, it turns out that our dry deposition process is capable of producing both anode and cathode films that are PFAS free. PFAS chemicals, para and polyfluoroalkyl substances often referred as forever chemicals, are commonplace in lithium ion batteries today.

Speaker 1

The European Union has begun taking steps to ban these substances altogether. Current slurry based processes and dry extrusion based processes rely on these chemicals to bind the electrodes. We have demonstrated the at scale production of electrodes that are PFAS free. Moreover, we have produced coin cells and pouch cells using these electrodes that have matched the performance characteristics of conventional electrodes containing PFAS chemicals. Concurrently, we commissioned a 3rd party study to evaluate the benefits of our manufacturing process in terms of cost and sustainability as we continue to scale.

Speaker 1

We have therefore begun evaluating processing technology for gigawatt hour annual production. The study has demonstrated that even with domestic manufacturing, we will be cost competitive with Asian manufacturers without the need of government subsidies. The study showed a 25% reduction in energy usage, a 22% reduction in factory area, and most notably, a 5 percent reduction in overall manufacturing costs for full production in Nevada, and this is before the effects of tariffs and the Inflation Reduction Act. As the EV industry continues to look to dry deposition as a potential solution to a host of environmental issues associated with current cell manufacturing processes, the fact that we are also deploying American innovation on American soil is becoming an increasingly attractive proposition for prospective customers and partners. I will now turn the call over to John to provide a review of our Q4 and full year 2023 financial results as well as a more detailed outlook for the Q1 of 2024.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Dennis. Please note that all figures presented are GAAP unless otherwise noted. Dragonfly generated net sales of $10,400,000 in the Q4 of 2023, down from $20,200,000 in the Q4 of 2022. As a reminder, the Q4 of 2022 included standard install revenue from Keystone, which was not the case in the Q4 of 2023. Revenue of $10,400,000 in the quarter was at the low end of our $10,000,000 to $14,000,000 guidance range as overall demand for RV customers remained sluggish.

Speaker 2

For fiscal 2023, DragonFly generated approximately $64,400,000 in net sales compared to $86,300,000 in 2022. The decrease was primarily driven by lower battery and accessory sales due to demand declines in our core RV markets. Significant cuts to overall unit sales from RV OEMs combined with higher financing costs for retail RV customers were the primary drivers of the year over year decline in revenue. As Dennis mentioned, despite these challenges, we continue to gain share in the overall RV market and believe we are well positioned to return to growth as the industry begins to recover. Our direct to consumer or DTC segment generated net sales of $6,600,000 in the Q4 of 2023, down from $10,700,000 in the Q4 of 2022.

Speaker 2

For the full year 2023, our DTC segment generated net sales of $36,900,000 down from $52,400,000 in 2022. DTC net sales represented 57.3 percent of total 2023 revenue, down from 60.8 percent in 2022. OEM net sales in the Q4 of 2023 were $3,900,000 down from $9,200,000 during the Q4 of 2022. As previously mentioned, our Q4 2022 revenue included standard install revenue from Keystone, which was not the case in the Q4 of 2023. For the full year 2023, OEM net sales totaled $27,500,000 down from $33,800,000 in 2022.

Speaker 2

The year over year decline in OEM revenue was driven by overall weaker demand and cuts within the RV market, partially offset by new customer wins. OEM sales contributed 42.7% of total net sales in 2023, up from 39.2% in 2022. With the growing base of RV OEMs combined with our revenue diversification efforts into adjacent markets, we expect that OEM revenue will continue to increase as a percentage of overall sales throughout 2024. Dragonfly's gross profit in the Q4 was approximately $2,000,000 compared to $4,000,000 in the Q4 of 2022. Our full year 2023 gross profit was $15,400,000 down from $23,600,000 in 2023.

Speaker 2

The year over year decline in 2023 gross profit was primarily driven by lower unit volume sales, a change in revenue mix that included a larger percentage of lower margin OEM sales as well as higher material costs. Operating expenses in the Q4 of 2023 were $5,400,000 down from $32,900,000 in the Q4 of 2022. As a reminder, operating expenses in the Q4 of 2022 included approximately $21,300,000 in business combination expenses associated with our going public in October of 2022. Operating expenses for the full year 2023 were $42,900,000 down from $58,000,000 in 2022. This decrease was primarily driven by the absence of expenses associated with the business combination in 2022 and lower overall employee related costs, partially offset by an increase in stock based compensation costs as well as higher compliance, insurance and professional fees related to public company expenses.

Speaker 2

Total other income in the Q4 of 2023 was approximately 6,300,000 compared to an expense of $2,700,000 in the Q4 of 2022. Other income for fiscal 2023 was approximately $13,600,000 compared to an other expense of $6,300,000 in 20 22. The income contribution in 2023 was primarily due to a change in fair market value of our warrant liability in the amount of $29,600,000 partially offset by interest expense of 16,000,000 dollars Net income in the Q4 of 2023 was $3,000,000 or $0.05 per diluted share compared to a net loss of $32,500,000 or a negative $0.76 per diluted share in the Q4 of 2022. Our net loss for the full year 2023 was $13,800,000 or a negative $0.26 per share compared to a net loss of $40,000,000 or negative $1.04 per share in 2022. As discussed, the change in our 2023 net loss was driven by lower sales due to reduced demand in the RV market, partially offset by lower cost of goods sold, lower operating expenses and increased other income.

Speaker 2

EBITDA in the Q4 of 2023 was $7,400,000 compared to a negative $28,000,000 in the Q4 of 2022. Full year 2023 EBITDA totaled $3,400,000 compared to a negative $32,800,000 in 2022. In the Q4 of 2023, adjusted EBITDA excluding stock based compensation, changes in the fair market value of our warrants and other one time expenses was a negative $2,100,000 compared to a negative $4,700,000 for the Q4 of 2020 2. For the full year 2023, adjusted EBITDA excluding stock based compensation, changes in the fair market value of our warrants and other one time expenses was a negative $17,100,000 compared to a negative $7,900,000 for the full year of 2022. For a reconciliation of EBITDA to adjusted EBITDA, please refer to our earnings press release.

Speaker 2

Before I turn to our guidance for the Q1 of 2024, I wanted to take a moment to discuss our cash position and expectations. Dragonfly ended the year with approximately $12,700,000 in cash, down modestly from $13,200,000 at the end of the Q3 of 2023. We continue to use our inventory as a source of working capital and expect this will and expect that this will continue through at least the first half of twenty twenty four. We believe that this reduced cash burn combined with access to our largely untapped $150,000,000 equity line of credit provides us the necessary liquidity and resources to execute on our operational plans. Now I'd like to turn our attention to our expectations for the Q1 of 2024.

Speaker 2

As Dennis mentioned earlier, we believe that the RV market appears to have stabilized and is showing early signs of recovery. In addition, our entry into the heavy duty trucking market, while still in its early stages, is gaining traction and has the potential to be a more meaningful revenue contributor in the second half of twenty twenty four. We expect Q1 2024 revenue to be in the range of $12,000,000 to $13,000,000 representing approximately 20% sequential growth at the midpoint of the range. We expect gross margin in the Q1 to be in the range of 24% to 26%. Operating expenses in the Q1 of 2024 expected to be in the range of $8,000,000 to $9,000,000 We expect other income and expense to be an expense in the range of $3,500,000 to 4,500,000 dollars We expect to report a net loss in the Q1 of 2024 in the range of a negative $8,000,000 to a negative 10,500,000 dollars or a negative $0.13 per share to a negative $0.17 per share based on approximately 61,000,000 shares outstanding.

Speaker 2

Let me now turn the call back over to Dennis to provide some summary comments before turning the call over to Q and A.

Speaker 1

Thank you, John. Before opening the call for questions, I want to take a moment to highlight that despite the near term growth and market headwinds, we have continued to execute and achieve our stated targets and milestones. In 2023, we completed the pilot line for our patented chemistry agnostic dry deposition process, proved that we could produce anode and cathode materials at scale and are now in the process of delivering sample battery cells customers across several different industries and markets. We are extremely excited about 2024 as the convergence of the new cell manufacturing, the expansion of our customer base and market segments and the stabilization and return to growth of the RB markets sets the stage for an expected return to growth. With that, I will turn the call back over to the operator who can open the line for questions.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Your first question is from George Guyanurica from Canaccord Genuity. Please ask your question.

Speaker 3

Hi, everyone. Thank you for taking my questions. Maybe to start just on the momentum of the business. I know you only gave guidance for 1 quarter, but you used terms like bottoming and you seem to have a lot of momentum on the heavy duty trucking side. So can you just kind of maybe qualify for us whether or not this Q1 of 2024 is likely to be the bottom for your business for the rest

Speaker 2

of the year? Thank you. Sure, George. Thanks for the question. Maybe I'll start and then Dennis can add a little bit of color around some of the customer stuff if he thinks so.

Speaker 2

I would say that we certainly do expect that, George. As Dennis mentioned, we saw some improvement in the RV market, particularly in the Q1 here, that gives us some confidence to at least call the bottom. I think there still is a little bit of uncertainty as to what the pace of the recovery looks like in the over RV market. I think the industry right now is calling for something on the order of 10% to 15% growth in calendar year 2024. If that proves to be accurate, then we would certainly expect to do at least as well as that, but probably a little bit better given some of the new market wins or some of the new customer programs that we've won throughout the course of 2022.

Speaker 2

As it relates to the trucking and even the RV market, I think the second half of the year is likely to be stronger. The RV market starts its calendar year or its excuse me, its model year in the July, in the month of July. So it's sort of a mid year upgrade to all the models. So we expect some of the new programs that we've won to really start then. And then with the trucking, we continue to I think to gain quite a bit of traction in the overall marketplace, particularly with the fleets.

Speaker 2

Turn into more steady orders, we would expect that to be in the second half of the year. So feel very good about where we are right now. There still is, I think, a little bit of uncertainty what the actual recovery looks like and what the full growth for the year will be. But I think we feel pretty confident that this Q1 is likely to be the low point of the year. Dennis, I don't know if there's anything else there that you'd like to add on the customer side?

Speaker 1

I concur that we feel very confident that we've hit bottom primarily because of the increase in shipments in RVs in general, but also there appears to be an increased a return to an increase in incorporation of lithium as the preferred mode of storage in RVs. So that all bodes very well for us combined with the fact that we are taking POs now from fleets in the heavy duty trucking market. And so the combination of those things bodes very well for us this year.

Speaker 3

So this deconcenting trend that you saw in the second half of twenty twenty three seems to be at least over for now?

Speaker 1

Well, I wouldn't say it has returned to the way it was as we continue to be an option at Keystone, for example, rather than a standard. But there that part I think has bottomed in terms of the percentage that are going out without lithium.

Speaker 2

And

Speaker 4

can you maybe just give

Speaker 3

a little more color on some of the I don't call them deals and discussions you've had with auto OEMs and consumer electronics companies? Or what is the pace of those discussions? What do they look like? Are you just looking for customers? Are you looking for partners beyond just customers, maybe more of an intimate relationship with some of these partners?

Speaker 3

Any additional details

Speaker 2

would be appreciated. Thank you.

Speaker 1

Yes. Well, I think notably here is these are inbounds. So we were not actively seeking things that were outside of our realm of storage. But it was compelling enough that we actually decided to start tuning the process for some of those metrics that are more suited to consumer electronics or automotive. For example, the energy density is more important there.

Speaker 1

The actual power is more important, the charge rates and the discharge rates. So yes, they are relationships that we do expect to become very important to us. And I would say they at this point, they're beyond the early stages in that we are actively taking parameters and using our process to meet those parameters for these customers.

Operator

Thank you. Your next question is from Brian Dobson from Chardan Capital Markets. Please ask your question.

Speaker 5

Hey, thanks so much for taking my question. So I just want to follow-up a little bit on those customer requirements and your, I guess, your recent discovery that your production process can produce, TSAS free battery technology. That seems to be a topic of discussion because there's likely going to be government regulation regarding PFAS particles in wastewater streams. So do you see that as a, call it, manufacturing advantage? And did that come down as a requirement from a large scale customer?

Speaker 1

It is most definitely a manufacturing advantage. It did not come in as a requirement. It was something that we were actually playing around with anyway. And when we had a site visit, that was identified as something that was more significant than we thought.

Speaker 5

Yes, that's right. We were recently speaking with over the company that mitigates PFAS particles and it seems like this is going to be, call it, like the next topic du jour for environmentalists and politicians. So certainly, it's very encouraging to hear that you can remove these dangerous chemicals from your production. So I guess, just speaking about trucking real quick and I know that we did touch upon it in the Q and A. Is there a potential to use some of your wireless battery monitoring technology within long haul trucking?

Speaker 5

And have you received any type of feedback from long haul trucking potential clients regarding either the batteries or that wireless monitoring technology?

Speaker 1

We have a lot of data and a lot of feedback regarding the performance of the batteries and the EAPU system in general, and it is all very good. In terms of the wireless networking or at least the communications part of it, it is not something that had been required or requested. But as we continue to roll it out, we would not be surprised if it becomes more important in the heavy duty trucking market because it is a great way to monitor state of charge and state of health and other aspects of the storage system.

Speaker 6

Would you say, I would call it, if you were going

Speaker 5

to think about the markets that could utilize those being like marine, RV and trucking, I guess, where would you expect to see the quickest kind of adoption? Where does it yield the most performance benefit?

Speaker 1

We developed the technology initially for marine and it really stemmed from the new ABYC requirements or recommendations that came out that required more visibility into what was happening in the storage system. But I do think that it is going to become very important in larger stationary storage installations because you have many batteries that are in series parallel configuration. And so to be able to monitor the health of each individual one down to the cell level and aggregate that data so that it makes sense either to the user or to some sort of monitoring system. I think it becomes that much more important as the systems become larger.

Speaker 5

Yes, very good. Thanks very much.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Your next question is from Chip Moore from Roth. Please ask your question.

Speaker 6

Hey, good evening everybody. Thanks. Wanted to ask on dry electrode just given the capital constraints currently,

Speaker 2

how are

Speaker 6

you thinking about opportunities to accelerate those efforts, at least in saying DOE potential? Just give us an update there.

Speaker 1

We have been seeking opportunities at DOE and in different government scenarios as well. I'm not really prepared to say anything at this point other than we expect that that will be an important part of our scale up.

Speaker 6

Understood. Thanks, Dennis. And I guess back to the heavy duty trucking side, it sounds like you've got some fleets already committed. Maybe just expand on that pipeline? And then can you talk a little bit about margin potential there?

Speaker 6

I assume sort of first fleet rollouts might be slightly lower, but eventually you get maybe to aftermarket and higher margins. Just walk us through that.

Speaker 1

Maybe I'll turn the margin question over to John.

Speaker 2

Yes, sure. I can take that, Dennis, and then maybe you can just update a little bit on where we stand with some of those fleets. I think overall, Chip, we're expecting that the margins there will be pretty consistent with our overall OEM margin profile. I don't think the trucking market is showing any undue strain on the pricing side and the margin equation there. I mean, thankfully, as we're talking with a number of fleets, this is a straight ROI proposal.

Speaker 2

This RV, sometimes it is a little bit more. This is what consumers want. This is what consumers expect. And as Dennis mentioned, last year when they went through the contenting, it was somewhat easier for them to cut what they considered features or nice to have as opposed to real needs. And now we're seeing that move back to lithium as the preferred storage method.

Speaker 2

But in trucking, coming at this from a fuel savings perspective, coming at it from a maintenance engine maintenance perspective, there really are advantages there from an ROI that don't really put a lot of pressure on the margin. So I think as that business scales to whatever size it's ultimately going to be, we would expect that to be very much in line with our sort of traditional OEM margin profile.

Speaker 1

In terms of the customers, Chip, there's a wide range. You've got the very, very large fleets that have tens of thousands of trucks on the road. You've got the smaller ones that are in the 100, and then you've got the owner operators. And I would say we've been making traction gaining traction on all fronts. However, the very large fleets are slower to move and they take longer pilots and they assess things a little bit longer than the owner operators, which you present a system, you present the data and they're ready to move pretty quickly.

Speaker 1

So I think what I will say about it is we've been at it far longer with the much larger fleets. But now we're having the smaller fleet sizes commit and really turnover and we expect that the larger fleets will begin to follow suit soon.

Speaker 6

Got it. Very helpful. Thank you. And maybe just one last one. Operating expenses, very good control in Q4.

Speaker 6

I guess the step up in Q1, anything in particular? And if the RV market takes a little longer to recover just what kind of levers do you have to pull there? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Sure, Chip. I think in Q1, we typically do have some expenses that are associated with the start of the calendar year, particularly on the stock based compensation side for bonus payments and the board expenses, things along those lines that we don't necessarily expect to continue as we go through the remainder of the calendar year. So I would expect that from a sequential basis to 2Q, which would certainly be down more in that 4Q range, while 1Q, like I said, is a little bit higher because of some initial year end expenses.

Speaker 6

Perfect. Okay. Thanks very much. Appreciate it.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Your next question is from Pavel Molchanov from Raymond James. Please ask your question.

Speaker 4

Yes, thanks for taking the question. I don't think anyone's asked about the off grid storage market. I know that's a smaller slice of the revenue pie, but can we get an update on that?

Speaker 2

Sure, absolutely. From an off grid storage perspective, we continue to see, I would say, pretty good momentum within the direct to consumer segment. That has always been a small but pretty consistent piece of the revenue pie and it was certainly in 2023 and even in 4Q. We've seen that market consistently move towards our larger battery sizes. So we tend to get pretty good margin out of that market just given the higher ASPs on those products.

Speaker 2

But again, our advantage, I think there tends to be the ability to help customers design the full system and then resell everything that they need as opposed to just shipping batteries out the door to customers. I think given some of the recent developments that we've had, it continues to be a focus for us on the OEM side as well. And we're continuing to work with potential customers on how we scale that up to the OEM level. We do have relationships with Connexa and folks like that that are helping on that storage side. So we would expect that continues to grow for us as we're looking out through 2024.

Speaker 4

Understood. And then on the R and D front, what's the latest on the solid state efforts, kind of planning along those lines?

Speaker 1

Well, the solid state effort has not really been progressing, because we are holding off on spending the capital, and we pivoted I would say before mid year last year to conventional sales using the dry deposition process. It hasn't stopped completely. We are certainly working at the lab scale. We're developing new types of electrolytes, making coin cells. We continue to cycle coin cells.

Speaker 1

We've already reported that we were able to cycle coin cells over a 1000 times using an all solid state chemistry. So it hasn't stopped, but in terms of scale up, in terms of providing samples, we really have been focusing on the pilot line that we made that can produce conventional cells.

Speaker 2

Yes. And I would just add importantly that the manufacturing lines themselves are the processes that we've been working on pretty aggressively here over the last 9 months or so, those same manufacturing processes will be used for solid state. So when we made that decision to sort of focus more on the conventional cells in the near term given some of the opportunities there, proving those lines out at scale is still a very important step for the overall delivery of those non flammable cells in the future.

Speaker 4

Got it. Thanks very much.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question is from Jeff Grampp from Alliance Global Partners. Please ask your question.

Speaker 7

Good afternoon. On the dry deposition process, I'm curious if you guys can kind of maybe paint a timeline for what are some material where you guys might be in a position to communicate externally on progress there, maybe goals that you guys have for 2024. Just hoping that kind of level set for what might be some reasonable benchmarks to kind of gauge progress there? Thanks.

Speaker 1

Thank you for that question. In that regard, we sort of rely on the customers that we are working with in terms of what we divulge, because a lot of what we're doing is very specific to the parameters that we are given. And I would love to be able to come out and announce these sorts of partnerships and we hope to be able to do that. But we need to work through these specifics of the parameters and sort of tuning the technology, the process to those specific cells. So in terms of what we're divulging, I think it really is based on how our relationships are progressing with these customers.

Speaker 7

Understood. That makes sense. And maybe for John, on the working capital inventory side of things, I know you mentioned that will be a tailwind for you guys at least in the first half of the year. Any kind of I guess ballpark estimate for how much excess inventory you guys think you are carrying? Just trying to get a sense of materiality of that for you guys.

Speaker 2

Sure. I mean, we worked through some of that through the second half of last year to be fair, and I think we've got another sort of similar cut to that revenue or excuse me to that inventory revenue levels over the next, like I said, through the March and certainly through the Q4. I think when all is said and done, looking at from where we sort of ended the year in 2023, we can probably take another $7,000,000 $8,000,000 off of that number, maybe a little bit more as we go through the first half of twenty twenty four. We continue to be pretty aggressive in working back, cutting back on some of the safety stock levels that we had built up, and particularly in front of the Keystone relationship where we were on being installed as a standard install. So we really were trying to protect ourselves from any shortages there.

Speaker 2

I think overall the supply chain that we've been working with for a number of years has gotten very, very predictable. So we feel comfortable working that down to where we're only really holding, say, a quarter's worth of inventory of key goods, where in the past that was certainly 6 months and in some cases even as high as 9 as we were coming through the effects of COVID. So I think we're in a position now to work that down to much more reasonable levels and then kind of maintain that on a more steady state basis certainly as we look through 2024.

Speaker 7

Okay, great. Appreciate those details. Thank you guys for the time.

Operator

Thank you. Your next question is from Brian Dobson from Chardan Capital Markets. Please ask your question.

Speaker 5

Thanks very much. Just a quick follow-up on the RV market. You mentioned that it is bottoming and you called out a couple of factors as to why that is. Do you think that could be described as a back half catalyst for 2024 or is it too soon at this point?

Speaker 2

I would say, Brian, I think it can be a catalyst. I'm just not sure yet of the magnitude of that catalyst. I guess the best way that I could describe that. Dennis mentioned we feel very, very comfortable certainly calling the bottom here, but I think the slope of the recovery, if you will, is still a little bit too early, I think, to where we're comfortable calling that. I do feel good about the fact that we will have some new programs that come on in the second half of the year.

Speaker 2

As I mentioned, the RV model year starts in July. So some of those programs that we have won won't start until we get to the second half of the year. So I do feel pretty good that we should see that half on half growth, but how large that growth is, I think it's still a little too early for us to call.

Speaker 5

Yes, very good. It's certainly a step in the right direction now.

Speaker 2

Yes, we were encouraged by what we've seen early on here.

Operator

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. Please proceed.

Speaker 1

Thank you for everyone joining us today. We look forward to sharing additional details with all of you in the coming quarters. Have a great

Speaker 2

day. Thank

Operator

you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now ended. Thank you all for joining. You may all disconnect.

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