Ellington Credit Q1 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

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May 15, 2024

There are 8 speakers on the call.

Operator

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Aladdin Shalei, Associate General Counsel. Sir, you may begin.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements made during this conference call may constitute forward looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor provisions of the Private Securities Reform Act of 1995. Forward looking statements are not historical in nature as described under Item 1A of our annual report on Form 10 ks and Part 2 Item 1A of our quarterly report on Form 10 Q, forward looking statements are subject to a variety of risks and uncertainties that could cause the company's actual results to differ from its beliefs, expectations, estimates and projections. Consequently, you should not rely on these forward looking statements as predictions of future events. Unless otherwise noted, statements made during this conference call are made as of the date of this call, and the company undertakes no obligation to update or revise any forward looking statements whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.

Speaker 1

Joining me on the call today are Larry Penn, Chief Executive Officer of Ellington Credit Company Mark Zekoski, our Co Chief Investment Officer and Chris Murnoff, our Chief Financial Officer. As described in our earnings press release, our Q1 earnings conference call presentation is available on our website, which we changed to allentoncredit.com. Our comments this morning will track you to the presentation. Please note that any references to figures in this presentation are qualified in their entirety by the notes at the back of the presentation. With that, I will now turn the call over to Larry.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Ella Dean, and good morning, everyone. We appreciate your time and interest in Ellington Credit Company. Please turn to Slide 3 of the presentation. I'll begin by reviewing EARN's strategic transformation, which we announced back on April 1. In late March, our Board approved a strategic transformation of EARN's investment strategy to focus on corporate CLOs and more specifically, CLO mezzanine debt and CLO equity.

Speaker 2

These are asset classes that we believe can provide greater risk adjusted return potential for our shareholders over the long term as compared to Agency RMBS, which had been our primary targeted asset class ever since our IPO in 2013. To effectuate this transition, we have revoked our reelection. And later this year, we plan to convert to a closed end fund for SEC purposes and a regulated investment company or RIC for tax purposes. As a reflection of these fundamental changes, we have changed our company's name to Ellington Credit Company. We have also changed the name of our website from earnreit.com to ellingtoncredit.com.

Speaker 2

We will continue to be listed on the New York Stock Exchange under our ticker symbol EARN or EARN and we have maintained our $0.08 per share monthly dividend. By shifting to a CLO focused strategy, we are leveraging Ellington's long standing and successful track record of investing in secondary CLOs, which spans more than a decade across a wide variety of market conditions. Looking back, our transformation actually began in September of last year, as we saw a good entry point in the CLO market and first began rotating a portion of Ernst Capital into CLOs. In late March, after seeing the CLO strategy performing at or above expectations and after working out the details for the transformation, the EARN Board approved the transformation. We plan to accomplish this over the coming months by selling our remaining agency pools, buying more CLOs and obtaining shareholder approval of certain matters that would allow us to convert to a closed end fund.

Speaker 2

Fortunately, since we've concentrated our agency investments in liquid sectors, the cost of liquidating agency pools to free up capital for CLOs has been very modest and we expect that to continue to be

Speaker 3

the case.

Speaker 2

Then after our transformation is complete, CLOs will become the sole focus of To date, earned CLO investments have generated excellent returns and we've now built a CLO portfolio of over $60,000,000 Please turn now to Slide 4, where we summarize the anticipated benefits of the transformation to shareholders. I am confident that the strong earnings power of CLOs, combined with a particular focus on relative value and active trading, will drive attractive returns for our shareholders, but with less volatility. CLO mezzanine and equity investments typically have high current yields, which support high net interest margins and strong adjusted distributable earnings. These investments also require significantly less debt financing compared to the typical leverage agency pool strategy. Furthermore, because CLOs are primarily backed by floating rate loans, they also require significantly less interest rate hedging than agency pools.

Speaker 2

Finally, despite significant growth of the CLO market in recent years, many parts of the market remain highly inefficient, particularly the secondary markets for CLO mezzanine debt and equity where our investment strategy is focused. We expect that our differentiated approach to CLO investing will enable EARN to capitalize on these inefficiencies. No 2 CLOs are alike, which given Ellington's extensive CLO expertise should create lots of relative value opportunities and trading opportunities for earned to capture. Some additional opportunities will come from credit hedging, which I believe is another differentiator of Ellington's approach to CLO investing. We are willing to hedge credit when we believe it makes sense.

Speaker 2

There are many liquid instruments that are available to gain or reduce exposure to overall corporate credit And CLO investments can often get somewhat disconnected from those other instruments. Over market cycles, we believe that our new focus sorry, we believe that we can add significantly to EARN's total returns and reduce EARN's volatility by selectively and opportunistically hedging from time to time. As a result of all these factors, we anticipate that our new focus will provide more stable book value and earnings profile for EARN going forward. Accordingly, we believe that this new focus will also provide the ability for EARN to grow book value per share over time with high risk adjusted returns. This contrasts with the performance in recent years of most agency pass through strategies, which have experienced book value per share erosion due to negative interest rate complexity.

Speaker 2

As I mentioned earlier, in order to effectuate the tax component of our strategic transformation, we have revoked our reelection for 2024. Later this year, once we obtain shareholder approval of certain matters and convert to a closed end fund, we will elect to be treated as a regulated investment company or RIC for tax purposes. Like REITs, RICs are also generally taxed as pass through entities, thereby avoiding corporate level tax. We are excited about the closed end fundRIC structure, which we also believe will enhance our access to the capital markets and open more channels for growth. Perhaps most importantly, we also see it as an opportunity to expand EARN's valuation multiple given the premiums to net asset value at which CLO focused closed end funds are trading today and have traded historically.

Speaker 2

Please turn now to Slide 5, where you can see the anticipated timeline for the transformation. With our reelection revoked, we are currently situated in the 2nd column on this slide, operating as a taxable C Corp. During this period, while we prepare for a closed end fundRIC conversion, we expect to grow the CLO portfolio above $100,000,000 while maintaining a core portfolio of liquid agency MBS to maintain exemption from the 1940 Act. Furthermore, EARN came into the year with significant net operating loss tax carry forwards and we plan to take advantage of those to offset the majority of our U. S.

Speaker 2

Federal taxable income until our conversion to a closed end fundRIC is complete. We remain on track to complete our conversion later this year, perhaps as soon as Q3. You can find additional information about the strategic transformation in the Presentation section of the Ellington Credit website, which as a reminder is now located at www.ellingtoncredit.com. And please don't hesitate to reach out to us with any questions. Please turn now to Slide 6 of the presentation for the market backdrop for the Q1.

Speaker 2

In the Q1, corporate credit, including CLOs, outperformed Agency MBS. Toward the bottom of the slide, you can see that 1st, corporate credit spreads tightened in high yield and investment grade. 2nd, prices on the Morningstar LSTA Leveraged Loan Index rose for the 6th straight quarter. And 3rd, CLO mezzanine spreads were tighter across the board with the most pronounced tightening on single B rated tranches. This strength in corporate credit reflected the continuation of trends we saw in the final month of 2023, driven by strong capital inflows, strengthening fundamentals and declining interest rate volatility.

Speaker 2

Investor demand for leveraged loans remained particularly strong with significant new issue CLO volume and rapid repayments of existing leveraged loans driving much of the demand. This dynamic has especially benefited EARN's holdings of discount dollar price CLO mezzanine tranches where we've concentrated our CLO investments so far. Meanwhile, Agency MBS lagged in the quarter despite the lower interest rate volatility as market consensus shifted to a higher for longer expectation for interest rates. You can see in the middle of the slide that option adjusted spreads on Agency MBS widened across the coupon stack. Please turn now to Slide 7 for a summary of EARN's results for the Q1.

Speaker 2

In the middle of the slide, you can see that strong performance from our CLO portfolio led the way, with CLOs contributing more than 40% of our investment portfolio income, despite representing less than 20% of average invested capital during the quarter. That translated an annualized return on capital on our CLO portfolio north of 30% for the quarter. And we haven't even started employing significant leverage in that portfolio. That said, given that almost half of our CLO investment income was attributable to spread tightening, I don't want to give the impression that we can regularly expect that kind of quarterly performance. Okay.

Speaker 2

Moving down the slide, you can see that our small non agency portfolio also contributed solidly to earnings, while agency finished positive as well. Our adjusted distributable earnings of $0.27 per share for the quarter, again comfortably exceeded our dividends of $0.24 Elsewhere on Slide 7, you can also see the impact of our larger CLO portfolio and our other operating metrics. Driven by the low leverage on our CLOs, EARN's overall debt to equity ratio declined to 4.8:one@quarterend, down from 5.3:one at year end and a full two turns of leverage lower than it was on September 30, when we first started ramping up CLOs. In addition, EARN's overall net interest margin climbed above 3% for the Q1. Not surprisingly, this was driven by the higher NIMs in our CLO portfolio.

Speaker 2

You can see here that the NIM on our credit investments, which are now mainly CLOs, climbed above 9.5%. And as we add more CLOs, the credit portfolio is representing a larger and larger percentage of our overall portfolio. Of course, higher NIMs require less leverage to drive strong ADE. Finally, I'll add that we were also able to reduce the size of our interest rate hedging portfolio in the Q1 given the lower interest rate duration of CLOs. And with that, I'll now pass it over to Chris to review our financial results for the Q1 in more detail.

Speaker 2

Chris?

Speaker 4

Thank you, Larry, and good morning, everyone. Please turn to Slide 8 for a summary of Ellington Credit's Q1 financial results. For the quarter ended March 31, we reported net income of $0.20 per share and adjusted distributable earnings of $0.27 per share. ADE excludes the catch up amortization adjustment, which was negative $884,000 in the Q1. On Slide 8, you can see that our overall net interest margin expanded to 3.03% from 2.19% quarter over quarter, driven by the growth of CLOs, while our ADE remained at $0.27 per share.

Speaker 4

NIMs on both the agency and credit portfolios increased sequentially driven by higher average asset yields and for agency, a lower cost of funds. In the Q1, we continue to benefit from positive carry on our interest rate swaps where we receive a higher floating rate and pay a lower fixed rate, but we expect the impact of this benefit to decline in future quarters as some of these swaps expire and as we sell down the agency portfolio and take off the associated hedges. On Slide 9, you can see the attribution of income by strategy. The CLO strategy generated $0.12 per share of portfolio income in the quarter, driven by strong interest income and net realized and unrealized gains on our seasoned CLO mezzanine investments. Because we mostly own these mezzanine investments at discounts to par, they are benefiting from elevated loan prepayments.

Speaker 4

The positive net interest income from the CLO strategy also caused EARN's overall net interest income to be positive. Our agency strategy generated portfolio income of $0.10 per share for the Q1. Despite lower interest rate volatility during the quarter, Agency MBS lagged the broader rally in credit as market consensus for the timing of the first Federal Reserve cut was pushed back. This drove interest rates higher across the yield curve and pressured yield spreads on Agency MBS, particularly in February and particularly for lower coupon MBS where much of our portfolio is concentrated. While Agency MBS yield spreads did recover meaningfully in March, driven by lower volatility and capital inflows, overall for the quarter, Agency MBS generated a modestly negative excess return to treasuries.

Speaker 4

Despite the negative excess return, EARN's agency portfolio was profitable for the quarter as net gains on interest rate hedges exceeded net losses on our pools and negative net interest income. Finally, our non agency portfolio performed well during the quarter, generating $0.06 per share, driven by net interest income and mark to market gains attributable to spread tightening. As Larry mentioned, in connection with our strategic transformation, we've revoked our REIT election effective January 1 this year, and we are currently operating as a taxable C Corp. We came into the year with substantial net operating loss carry forwards and in the Q1, we used a portion of those to offset the majority of our federal taxable income as we intend to continue doing so for so long as we operate as a C corp. For the Q1, we accrued an income tax expense of $300,000 which reflects the net tax liability accrued on our taxable income after the NOL offset.

Speaker 4

Due to federal on NOL utilization, we cannot offset 100% of our taxable income. Our utilization of NOLs reduced our effective tax rate from what would have been around 28.5 percent to 7.1% for the quarter. Please note that we did not book a deferred tax asset on our balance sheet related to the NOLs, so we report so our reported book value remains fully tangible. Please turn now to our balance sheet on Slide 10. Book value per share was $7.21 at March 31, compared to $7.32 per share at year end.

Speaker 4

Including the $0.24 per share of dividends in the quarter, our economic return for the quarter was 1.8%. We ended the quarter with $79,500,000 in cash and unencumbered assets, which represented approximately 56% of total equity. Next, please turn to Slide 11 for a summary of our portfolio holdings. During the Q1, our CLO portfolio increased to $45,000,000 as of March 31 compared to $17,000,000 as of year end. Over the same period, the size of our agency MBS holdings increased slightly to $739,000,000 as of March 31 compared to $728,000,000 as of December 31.

Speaker 4

And our aggregate holdings of interest only securities and non agency RMBS decreased modestly. The allocation of our deployed equity to CLOs increased to 25% at March 31 from 11% at year end, while the allocation to mortgage related assets declined to 75% from 89%. Including activity through May 13, our CLO portfolio currently stands at over $60,000,000 while our Agency MBS holdings have declined to $621,000,000 Our debt to equity ratio adjusted for unsettled trades decreased to 4.9x as of March 31 as compared to 5.3x at year end. The decline was driven by less leverage on our CLO investments as compared to Agency RMBS as well as higher shareholders' equity. Similarly, our net mortgage assets to equity ratio decreased over the same period to 5.4x from 5.8x, driven also by a net short TBA position at March 31 on a notional basis compared to a net long notional TBA position at year end, partially offset by a larger Agency RMBS portfolio.

Speaker 4

Finally, on Slide 13, you can see details of our interest rate hedging portfolio. During the quarter, we continue to hedge interest rate risk, primarily through the use of interest rate swaps. We ended the quarter with a small net short TBA position, both on a notional basis and as measured by 10 year equivalents. The overall size of our interest rate hedging portfolio declined quarter over quarter as the share of our portfolio in CLOs increased. On Slide 15, you can see that nearly all the loans underlying our CLO portfolio are floating rate and as such have much lower interest rate duration.

Speaker 4

I will now turn the presentation over to Mark.

Speaker 5

Thanks, Chris. This was a solid quarter for EARN. It showed the benefits of the pivot we started implementing last September, adding significant corporate CLO exposure in place of a portion of our levered Agency MBS portfolio. The market backdrop of lower volatility and relatively stable yields led to outperformance in most credit sectors of structured products. Markets transitioned this quarter from wondering about how high the Fed would hike rates to wondering about when the first cut would come.

Speaker 5

That change in Fed expectations was very significant for risk appetite. Corporate credit rallied pretty much across the board and for agency it met more bank participation, lower delta hedging costs and a favorable demand picture as inflows from fixed income funds were strong. That said, Agency MBS actually lagged other spread products basically with spreads shedding water versus hedging instruments. But EARN was well positioned to capture ADE against this market backdrop. We were able to monetize spread income with limited drag from negative convexity.

Speaker 5

For CLOs, we've seen strong prepayment activity in the loans underlying our positions. Corporate borrowers took advantage of benign market conditions to refinance debt, leading to welcome paydowns in excess of projections on our discount dollar price mezz portfolio. This refinancing activity has also improved loan market fundamentals as many corporate borrowers have been able to lower their debt costs and extend their debt maturities. Many CLO equity tranches are benefiting in a different way from the tightening in debt spreads with many CLO deals now able to refinance their liability costs lower by lowering the coupons on the CLO debt tranches more excess spread is available to flow to the CLO equity tranche. Solid fundamentals in the loan market coupled with refi activity have reduced tail risk in the CLO market and reduced the percentage of distressed loans in most deals.

Speaker 5

This dynamic drove our outperform drove the outperformance of our CLOs relative to similarly rated corporate bonds for the quarter. Security selection also contributed to our outperformance. We systematically pull over deal documentation to analyze deal level tests and triggers that not only protect our investments, but also give us upside. In addition, we work closely with our credit team to assess the credit quality of specific underlying loans to avoid future stresses and uncover potential upside. That discipline together with the market backdrop of strong credit performance helped drive our outsized returns.

Speaker 5

We also had a nice contribution from our non agency RMBS holdings. Home price appreciation continues to surprise to the upside and the net supply of housing is quite low relative to demand. While we transition our portfolio from being agency focused to CLO focused, we are managing the portfolio with a few goals in mind. First, this is a favorable environment for spread product like Agency MBS and CLOs, so we want to stay relatively fully invested. The percentage of capital allocated between the two sectors will shift over time, but overall, we are aiming to stay fully invested while maintaining our typical liquidity buffers.

Speaker 5

2nd, we want to keep our agency portfolio liquid and as our transition progresses, we will need to concentrate that agency portfolio a bit more in whole pools in order to continue to maintain our 40 Act exemption prior to the RIC conversion. That process has been underway and is ongoing. We had about 20% turnover in our agency portfolio in Q1 and additional activity post quarter end. Our disciplined approach to pool selection has been helpful in minimizing earnings drag during this transition. To summarize, we are keeping up ADE, but the mix between pools and CLOs will continue to shift in favor of CLOs.

Speaker 5

Looking ahead, I'm pleased with our returns for the quarter and the progress we have made with the portfolio transition. With the current market dynamics, we see upside in our current portfolio. Should Fed cuts materialize consistent with market current expectations, that could be a catalyst for additional outperformance. Now back to Larry.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Mark. CLO performance was definitely the bright spot in the Q1 for EARN as it's been since EARN began investing in the sector last September. In hindsight, September was clearly an excellent entry point, especially given the yield spread tightening we've seen in corporate credit since then. Despite the recent rally, I believe that the investment opportunity will continue to be attractive over the long term. The CLO market has demonstrated its ability to generate attractive returns over market cycles and over a long term horizon.

Speaker 2

As just one data point, the benchmark leverage loan index has generated positive results in 24 years out of its 27 year performance history. Moreover, many portions of the CLO market remain highly inefficient and so we believe that we can generate significant alpha above and beyond the already attractive benchmark index. Even after the yield spread tightening that boosted our returns in the Q1, we still see returns on equity for our recent CLO investments, assuming the modest amount of leverage we plan to employ as a closed end fund in the high teens and low 20s. Meanwhile, the Agency MBS sector continues to be volatile, especially over renewed concerns about inflation and a more hawkish Fed, which in April resulted in treasury yield volatility picking up and Agency spreads widening yet again. Agency MBS underperformed our swap and treasury hedges in April and the volatility also caused us to incur delta hedging costs.

Speaker 2

Fortunately, much of this agency MBS underperformance has reversed itself in May. But this is just another example of the volatility we've seen in agency MBS over the past few years that we should be much less exposed to after our conversion to a CLO focused closed end fund is complete. Our CLO portfolio has continued to perform well so far in the Q2. And overall, we estimate that EARN's economic return so far in the second quarter is slightly positive. Since quarter end, we also have continued to make great progress transitioning the portfolio.

Speaker 2

As Chris mentioned, our agency portfolio is now down to about $621,000,000 and our CLO portfolio is now over $60,000,000 This continued shift has taken our debt to equity ratio down further to about 4.4:one, excluding repo and treasuries. Keep in mind that during this interim period before we qualify as a closed end fund, we need to maintain a core portfolio of agency whole pools for 1940 Act purposes. I'm extremely excited about this new chapter for EARN. Ellington has a long standing and successful track record of investing in CLOs and I strongly believe that our transformation will generate high risk adjusted returns with less volatility for Ellington Credit shareholders. Once our conversion to a closed end fundRIC is completed, our new structure should also enable us to access a more favorable cost of capital to support future growth.

Speaker 2

I believe that these factors will help drive adjusted distributable earnings and dividend growth from here. With that, we'll now open the call to questions. Operator, please go ahead.

Operator

Thank And we will take our first question from Crispin Love with Piper Sandler.

Speaker 6

Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Just on the strategic transformation you announced, it's a meaningful shift from the agency strategy that you've had historically. So just with this change, would you expect a meaningful turnover in your current investor base? And can you just speak to what conversations have been like with current investors regarding the shift?

Speaker 2

Yes, sure. I mean, so far, we've had a few conversations. They've been positive. And I think it's a pretty similar investor base, right? If you look at EARN's current investor base, just the institutional investor base is fairly small at this point in some passive funds.

Speaker 2

It's a mostly retail investor base, which is the same for the peer group of the CLO focused closeout funds. So I do think we are going to get some, I think even incoming calls from some institutional investors to see to potentially establish positions in the stock. But I do think that overall it's going to be a pretty similar retail oriented investor base.

Speaker 6

Great. Thanks, Larry. That's helpful. And then can you speak to the credit quality in the CLO book and how would you how you'd expect it to trend over time as well as expected risk adjusted returns? Looking at your presentation, the book looks to be very diversified, no major concentrations.

Speaker 6

So just curious if there are specific industries you're most excited about as you build out the portfolio over time?

Speaker 2

Well, again, yes, each CLO is generally diversified across industries. Mark, do you want to handle that? Or if

Speaker 5

Sure. Yes, I'm actually going to introduce a new voice to this earnings call that of Greg Borenstein, who heads the CLO effort at Ellington.

Speaker 3

Hello. Nice to meet everyone. So to take this question, I think that the portfolio will adapt as the marketing opportunity adapts. I think over the long run, you'll generally see a mix of mezz and equity in the portfolio. You can see generally BBB and below is where we're going to be.

Speaker 3

I think that in September, when we started Trianthus, we found that mezz was at an extreme discount, also with the rates dynamic where you have a elevated SOFR versus what we've traditionally had

Speaker 1

over the

Speaker 3

last 10 years, we had more of a weighting towards mezz versus the equity book. I think that the way we're seeing things trend now where with the exception of some credit sensitive profiles, much of the CLO mezz market has rallied closer to par. We won't see the same total return coming from there, even though the credit quality continues to improve. I think when we think about this portfolio and the dividend we're looking to pay as well as managing the risk, we'll see a slight shift into equity if this trend continues to keep up and we're seeing that equity liability spreads are continuing to keep tightening in. The CLO market with its refis and resets and issuance is continuing to bear this out.

Speaker 3

And overall, I think that you'll see diversification continue to improve as this grows. I think right now as we're looking to ramp, we're mindful of liquidity. We don't want this filled with the odd lots if we look to trade and rotate as the opportunity changes. And so as it continues to scale and grow, I think we will over time continue to see that more positions went into the book. But I think as we ramp, you'll see us maybe with slightly larger position sizes, though even now, I think it's still pretty diversified.

Operator

Thank you. And we will take our next question from Doug Harter with UBS.

Speaker 7

Thanks. Can you just talk about the return profile? How much of it's kind of coming from current coupon versus discount accretion and how that differs between the mezz pieces and the equity pieces?

Speaker 2

Well, as I mentioned, Doug, in the last the Q1, we had a lot from spread tightening. In terms of how much is from coupon versus accretion, I don't know if we have that at our fingertips. But as I think you first of all, I think you're probably referring more to mezzanine debt tranches as opposed to equity tranches, right? With equity, it's generally coming from excess interest spread right in the deals themselves. So, now we do we can calculate obviously a projected yield on those as we can on the methanine, but implicitly there's going to be some amortization calculation there.

Speaker 2

The mezz that we have currently just Greg do you have sort of the average dollar price in those? Greg why don't you field this?

Speaker 3

Hi. So I don't have the portfolio in front of me, but one thing I would note is, in general, over the period of time we've talked about since we've been investing in CLOs, you've seen more price appreciation from the mezz than I think you generally would. I think that you've seen most mezzanine pieces move up certainly into the '90s dollar price range for us. Maybe we were sourcing more in the beginning in the 80s and in some cases some very stressed pieces beneath that. And so over this period of time in particular, more price appreciation than in, I think, a more normal market, which is why on the margin, we'll see mezz probably start to come down a little bit versus equity as that price appreciation and total return has been captured?

Speaker 2

And I think actually I was going to say, if you look on the earnings deck, there's a portfolio table on Page Slide 11, right, of the deck. And you can see that the average dollar price of our CLO, right, notes is currently well as of March 31, I should say was 86 handle. So I think that can give you some indication of so I would say, Greg, correct me if I'm wrong, but that probably means that a good couple of 100 basis points of the yield is the projected yield on those notes is going to be due to accretion of discount over time as opposed to coupon. So it's not certainly not most of the return if that's sort of what you're asking about. Yes.

Speaker 7

I guess just trying to get comfort in I guess the predictability of the cash flow and as you go forward and as this grows as a percentage to kind of support the monthly dividends?

Speaker 2

Yes. Greg, what's the typical on the notes, what's the typical spread on these floating rate notes, would you say, in the portfolio roughly, very roughly? Spread over so far?

Speaker 3

$800,000 to $1,000

Speaker 5

Yes, Larry, it's Mark. Those are like $800,000 to $1,000 Doug, one way to think about it is the mezz comes in at discount with a very big coupon. So kind of analogous to discount agency MBS, this was a quarter where you had sort of outsized prepayments because a lot of loans refi. But that capturing that outsized prepayments, it was definitely part of the security selection process when we started ramping the portfolio. We were looking for the mezz pieces where we thought you'd see a lot of loan refinancing.

Speaker 5

And then when you get to the equity and Greg will get into it on future calls, there's different flavors of it. There's some equity that is sort of almost like premium MBS where you're getting an above market coupon, but it's paying down a little bit. And then there's some equity that's almost more like IO.

Speaker 2

Yes. And if you're so for plus 800 even to pick the low end of that range on mezzanine just with a very small bit of leverage you're covering your dividend with coupon right there.

Speaker 1

Got it. It's very helpful. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. And we will take our next And

Speaker 2

we will take our next question from Matthew Ertner with Jones Trading. Could you expand a little more on the pace of the transition out of the agency and into the CLOs? I think you mentioned 621 currently in MBS and then 660 in the CLO. Yes. Look, I think if you say how much we've been kind of adding, it's really CLO is driving it, right?

Speaker 2

We're selling MBS just as we buy CLO, not the other way around, right? The CLO is what's driving the pace of the transition. So if you look $20,000,000 a month is kind of what we've been ramping recently. I think that's quite manageable. I think sort of the low end of our expectations where we plan to be.

Speaker 2

So if we're at $60,000,000 as of now and 2 more months from today, so that'll put us, let's just say, in July, where we're close to or above 100,000,000 dollars That's kind of I think what I mentioned in the prepared remarks as where we plan to get to. And then really at almost any point after that or quite quickly after that, we would be able to complete the transition. So if I had to guess, I would say $120,000,000 give or take. And of course, as we mentioned, we're going to we will have a shareholder vote later this year, which we will need to sort of authorize the transformation, the conversion to a closed end fund. Got you.

Speaker 2

That's helpful. And then with this conversion, we expect any one time expenses or stuff like that to happen? Yes. But I think they're going to be quite modest. I mean, I think we've mentioned that liquidate sufficient agencies is really going to be quite modest.

Speaker 2

So and has been not even noticeable I think so far. So but we'll have of course some legal and professional fees as well, but nothing extraordinary. I mean I know there have been some other transitions like this where it's quite costly, especially to liquidate the portfolio, but it's just not going to be the case here. So I think, yes, it's not something that we've I think a number that we've put out so far, but it's really we'll put out a proxy. A lot of that expense has been occurred in the Q2.

Speaker 2

It's not been anything to I think be concerned about. So I think these are going to be quite modest and will kind of be almost blend in with the rest of the returns on the portfolio. Yes, that's great. Thank you, guys.

Operator

Thank you. That was our final question for today. We thank you for participating in the Ellington Credit Company First quarter 2024 financial results conference call. You may disconnect your line at this time and have a wonderful day.

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Earnings Conference Call
Ellington Credit Q1 2024
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