NASDAQ:ACTG Acacia Research Q1 2024 Earnings Report $19.36 -0.37 (-1.88%) Closing price 04/17/2025 04:00 PM EasternExtended Trading$19.42 +0.05 (+0.28%) As of 04/17/2025 05:47 PM Eastern Extended trading is trading that happens on electronic markets outside of regular trading hours. This is a fair market value extended hours price provided by Polygon.io. Learn more. Earnings History ACM Research EPS ResultsActual EPS$0.06Consensus EPS N/ABeat/MissN/AOne Year Ago EPSN/AACM Research Revenue ResultsActual Revenue$24.32 millionExpected RevenueN/ABeat/MissN/AYoY Revenue GrowthN/AACM Research Announcement DetailsQuarterQ1 2024Date5/9/2024TimeAfter Market ClosesConference Call DateThursday, May 9, 2024Conference Call Time4:30PM ETUpcoming EarningsACM Research's Q1 2025 earnings is scheduled for Thursday, May 8, 2025, with a conference call scheduled at 8:00 AM ET. Check back for transcripts, audio, and key financial metrics as they become available.Q1 2025 Earnings ReportConference Call ResourcesConference Call AudioConference Call TranscriptPress Release (8-K)Quarterly Report (10-Q)Earnings HistoryCompany ProfilePowered by ACM Research Q1 2024 Earnings Call TranscriptProvided by QuartrMay 9, 2024 ShareLink copied to clipboard.There are 9 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good day, and welcome to the Acacia Research First Quarter 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After management's prepared remarks, there will be a question and answer session. I would now like to turn the call over to Rob Fink. Please go ahead. Speaker 100:00:18Thank you, operator. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. Hosting the call today are M. J. McNulty, Chief Executive Officer and Kirsten Hoover, Interim Chief Financial Officer. Speaker 100:00:30Before beginning, I'd like to remind you that the information provided during this call may contain forward looking statements relating to Kurniak's patience, estimates, forecasts and projections about future events that are forward looking as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward looking statements generally relate to the company's plans, objectives and expectations for future operations and are based on the current estimates and projections, future results or trends. Actual results may differ materially from those projected as a result of certain risks and uncertainties. For a discussion of such risks and uncertainties, please see the risk factors as described in Acacia's annual report on Form 10 ks and quarterly reports on Form 10 Q, both of which are filed with the SEC. I'd also like to remind everyone that a press release disclosing the financial results was issued this afternoon just after the close of market. Speaker 100:01:26The release may be accessed on the company's website under the Press Release section of the Investor Relations tab at acaciaresearch.com. With all that said, I'd now like to turn the call over to MJ. MJ, the call is yours. Speaker 200:01:41Thanks very much, Rob. In the short time since our last call, we've continued to execute on our capital allocation strategy. We've realized gains from our IT monetization business and cash flows from Printronix and have deployed capital into our new oil and gas business. Our focus continues to be 2 fold. 1st, growing cash flow and earnings from our current businesses and second, continuing to evaluate opportunities to acquire new businesses into our platform. Speaker 200:02:08Our team has been busy identifying opportunistic situations where our research execution and operating partners can drive attractive earnings and book value per share growth. As it relates to the specifics, in terms of sources of capital, our IP monetization business generated $13,600,000 in growth settlements and patent license agreements in the Q1. These agreements further bolster our position to pursue additional licensing agreements and settlements and our team is advancing discussions with other potential licensees. The Wi Fi 6 patent portfolio continues to represent a lucrative opportunity for periodic cash events and we believe there's significant incremental value in these patents. Additionally, we continue to evaluate potential additional capital investment into this business to acquire new patent portfolios when we believe there are attractive risk reward opportunities. Speaker 200:03:03Also, as you will recall, Acacia acquired Petronix operating business in October of 2021. At the time we acquired the business, we believed it represented an attractive price relative to the cash flow able to be generated and recognized there would be some level of operational and strategic restructuring required. Beginning in early 2023, this team began the detailed work of putting the restructuring in motion by replacing the Printronix management team and bringing an operating advisor into the business to formulate and execute on continuous improvement and efficiency initiatives, including significant cost rationalization. These initiatives are bearing fruit. We've now transitioned Printronix from consuming approximately $3,800,000 in cash during the LTM period ended March 31, 2023 to generating approximately 6 point $1,000,000 in cash during the LTM period ending March 31, 2024. Speaker 200:03:56We further defined and implemented the business's value proposition and go to market strategy for both printers and our high margin consumables business. We're pleased with the progress of Printronix and believe its dual hardware and consumables business model combined with its streamlined operating structure represent a nice source of cash flow for Acacia. Turning to our capital allocation initiatives. Early in the second quarter, Benchmark, our oil and gas business unit closed its first significant acquisition, purchasing an attractive group of assets in Texas and Oklahoma. With the closing of the new acquisition now behind us, our experienced team at Benchmark has begun implementing its operational improvement plan. Speaker 200:04:35As we've stated previously, operational improvements are a meaningful part of our strategy. Our goal is to acquire mature, long lived assets and deploy various field enhancements including artificial lift optimization, a more active well maintenance program and reopening previously closed wells. Benchmark's core strategy is improving the production and efficiency of its assets to maximize cash flow. As a reminder, this acquisition significantly expands the Benchmark portfolio, adding approximately 140,000 net acres and approximately 4 and 70 operated producing wells in the Western Anadarko Basin throughout the Texas Panhandle and Western Oklahoma, including meaningful exposure to the emerging Cherokee development play via both operated acreage and non operated arrangements with best in class operators. As we mentioned before, we like these assets because of their liquids rich nature being predominantly oil based with a production base of approximately 6,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day exhibiting a low decline profile. Speaker 200:05:38Kirsten will discuss the financial results for Benchmark specific to the Q1 before we close the transaction. And I would highlight that in our next earnings, you should begin to see the significant benefits we expect from the platform in terms of revenue and free cash flow generation. We expect the consolidated benchmark NAD to generate approximately $50,000,000 in asset level cash flow over the next 12 months at current strip pricing. As a reminder, Acacia owns 73.5 percent of Benchmark Energy pro form a for the transaction. Consistent with our risk management approach, upon closing, Benchmark implemented hedges for over 70% of its operated oil and gas production for the next 3 years at attractive price levels, protecting a significant portion of the returns we've underwrote when we signed the deal in February. Speaker 200:06:28With Benchmark's additional scale, we've been able to bring on additional hedging counterparties that not only help us achieve the best pricing, but also allow us to diversify risk. Taking this acquisition into account, Acacia has approximately $400,000,000 in capital to deploy into new acquisitions. We believe the oil and gas business represents an attractive complement to our acquisition initiatives in Industrials, Technology and Healthcare, where we also continue to evaluate operating businesses to add to our portfolio. Overall, the M and A environment is encouraging for the Acacia strategy, and we're seeing a strong pipeline of both public and private opportunities that fit well within our desired characteristics. While Acacia is less reliant on leverage for returns than our financial buyer counterparts, the lending environment appears to be opening up and we have seen traditional banks starting to reemerge after being on the sidelines for the last year. Speaker 200:07:23This will allow us to be opportunistic in utilizing leverage as we evaluate total cost of capital in each acquisition we make. In the public markets, while valuations generally remain elevated, we're searching for and finding opportunities that are not well understood or where we believe our ownership can unlock significantly more value. We're continuing to see more situations where the market is creating attractive opportunities for buyers willing to do the fundamental work to understand the situation and find value. As a result of these activities this quarter, our book value per share at March 31, 2024 was $5.89 per share compared to $5.90 per share at December 31, 2023. Excluding an additional accrual of $6,200,000 related to the AIP matter, which is discussed in greater detail in our 10 Q, our adjusted book value per share on March 31, 2024 would have been $5.95 a share. Speaker 200:08:25As a reminder, the AIP matter relates to an ongoing legal matter involving a profits interest plan adopted by prior members of management and the Board in 2017. The profits interest plan granted a profit interest in Veritone 10% warrants certain members of management and the Board has compensation for services rendered. Importantly, those members of management and the Board separated from Acacia in 2018 2019 and the Veritone 10% warrants were exercised in 2020 and 2021. As we mentioned before, book value per share and is the primary metric on which our team's compensation is based. We believe this creates very close alignment with our shareholders. Speaker 200:09:14Finally, I'd like to note that the Board of Directors has nominated Michelle Feldman, an accomplished executive with more than 3 decades of experience in real estate, finance and investing to serve as an independent director for election at the company's annual meeting of stockholders to be held on May 21, 2024. Michelle is set to fill the vacancy left by Catherine Walenek, who has served as an independent director since January 2019 and it was not standing for reelection for a term, which is set to expire at the annual meeting. I'd like to thank Catherine for her service to Acacia during a period of transition. Her voice and counsel have been invaluable. And on behalf of Acacia and our shareholders, I'd like to express our gratitude. Speaker 200:10:02Ms. Thalmann brings strong Board and operating expertise to Acacia, having served on several public and private company boards. She currently serves on the Board of Directors of Cushman and Wakefield, chairing the nominating and governance committee and serving as a member of the Compensation Committee. In addition, she recently completed her term as an Advisory Director at Investcorp, a leading provider and manager of alternative investment products. She also served as a trustee of the Partners Group, a global private equity firm, where she was Chair of the Investment Oversight Committee and a member of the Audit Committee and the Compensation and Governance Committee. Speaker 200:10:38More on Ms. Felman's impressive background and experience can be found in our proxy materials located in the Filings and Financial section of our website. We're confident that Ms. Filman's deep and relevant industry expertise as well as her experience on public company boards will be invaluable to Acacia going forward. I'd now like to turn the call over to Kirsten to discuss our Q1 results. Speaker 300:11:02Thank you, MJ. Our GAAP book value at March 31, 2024 was 589,600,000 or $5.89 per share. Excluding the impact of the additional accrual of $6,200,000 related to the AIP matter MJ discussed earlier, our book value per share at March 31, 2024 would have been $5.95 per share. Printronix generated $2,800,000 in cash during the quarter, reflecting the changes and process improvements to optimize operational efficiencies that have taken place over the past year. We expect Printronix to continue to generate free cash flow on an annual basis. Speaker 300:11:54Benchmark's operating income during the quarter was $200,000 which included $400,000 of non cash depreciation, depletion and amortization and does not reflect $800,000 of realized derivative gains. Now let me turn to the Q1 results. Total revenues were $24,300,000 compared to $14,800,000 in the same quarter last year. Let me break this down between our operating segments. The intellectual property business generated $13,600,000 in licensing and other revenue during the quarter, compared to $4,200,000 in the same quarter last year, reflecting an increase in the number of license agreements executed quarter over quarter and higher average license fees. Speaker 300:12:49Printronics, our industrial operations business generated $8,800,000 in revenues during the quarter compared to $10,600,000 in the same quarter last year. Benchmark, our energy operations, which we acquired on November 13, 2023, generated $1,900,000 in revenue in the quarter, which excludes gains on hedging contracts of $800,000 As a reminder, in April, we closed Benchmark's first acquisition following Acacia's initial investment. Results from this acquisition will be reported beginning in our Q2. Pro form a for the acquisition, we will own 73.5 percent of this this subsidiary. General and administrative expenses were $12,400,000 compared to $12,000,000 in the same quarter of year, with the increase due to the increase in variable performance based compensation costs for the intellectual property segment, partially offset by a decrease in parent legal fees and a decrease in Printronix G and A. Speaker 300:14:05Operating loss was $2,100,000 compared to an operating loss of $9,300,000 in the same quarter of last year, with the decrease due to higher revenues generated in the IP business. Printronix contributed $1,200,000 in operating income, which included $700,000 of non cash depreciation and amortization expense. Benchmark contributed $200,000 in operating income, which included $400,000 in non cash depreciation and depletion expense. GAAP net loss attributable to Acacia Research Corporation was $200,000 or $0.00 per share compared to GAAP net income attributable to Acacia of $9,400,000 or a loss of $0.07 per diluted share in the Q1 of last year. Diluted earnings per share adjusts the numerator used in the basic earnings per share computation for the fair value adjustments on warrant and embedded derivative liabilities, resulting in a diluted net loss attributable to common stockholders. Speaker 300:15:20Excluding the impact of the additional accrual relating to the AIP matter, which represented $0.06 earnings per share, our earnings per share for the Q1 of 2024 would be $0.06 per share. As of March 31, 2024, our NOL totaled approximately 18,000,000 dollars We will continue to evaluate the most efficient ways to maximize this asset. Turning now to the balance sheet. Cash, cash equivalents and equity securities at fair value totaled $461,700,000 at March 31, 2024, compared to $403,200,000 at December 31, 2023. Equity securities without readily determinable fair value totaled $5,800,000 at March 31, 2024, unchanged from December 31, 2023. Speaker 300:16:22Investment securities, representing Equity Method Investments, net of non controlling interest, totaled $19,900,000 at March 31, 2024, unchanged from December 31, 2023. Acacia owns 64% of Mallin J1, which results in a 26% ownership stake in ViaMet Pharmaceuticals for Acacia. The company currently carries no parent debt, having paid off its senior secured notes on July 13, 2023, and $13,000,000 in non recourse debt at Benchmark as of March 31, 2024. We continue to believe that cash per share is an important metric for measuring our progress. As of March 31, 2024, our cash per share stood at $4.39 per share. Speaker 300:17:19More details on these results have been made available in the press release that was issued this afternoon and in our quarterly report on Form 10 Q, which we will file with the SEC later today. With that, we'd be pleased to take your questions. Operator00:17:37Certainly. The floor is now open for questions. Your first question is coming from Brett Reiss with Janney Montgomery Scott. Please pose your question. Your line is live. Speaker 400:18:01Hi, MJ. Hi, Kirsten. Speaker 200:18:04Hey, Brad. How are you doing? Hi. Speaker 400:18:06I'm good. I just have a couple of questions to get my arms around Speaker 500:18:15the bench Speaker 400:18:18investment. Benchmark? Yes, benchmark, sorry. So we basically have laid out $67,000,000 for the 73.5 percent interest we have in it. Do we value it or market at $67,000,000 I'm just wondering why the book value after this investment did not move up? Speaker 200:18:46Yes. I mean, so that's a great question, Brett. So it is valued, well, two points. The 60 $7,000,000 for the 2nd acquisition of Benchmark, remember the first we made in November, and we invested roughly $10,000,000 for half the company is mark to cost. The second investment, which is the much larger of the 2, which we closed this year, was actually closed in April. Speaker 200:19:19So it's not yet reflected in the numbers because it wasn't a Q1 event, but you'll see that you'll start to see that in the second quarter. Speaker 400:19:28Right. Speaker 200:19:30But broadly, how we think about it when you do see it in the second quarter is we're taking cash and we're investing it into those assets. And with those assets marked at cost or there's a little bit of expense that goes against it For deal related expenses, you shouldn't see a material appreciation of book value because you're trading cash for an asset. So you're just moving around the asset side of the balance sheet. Speaker 400:19:55Okay. I appreciate that. Now somewhere in my notes at the benchmark company level, it was anticipated or expected to generate $45,000,000 in EBITDA or cash operating cash flow? Do you recall this number? Speaker 200:20:18Yes. That's what we mentioned on our last call. It was cash flow at the asset level, which is effectively yes. Speaker 400:20:28All right. So we're entitled to 73.5 percent of that $45,000,000 And then what we don't know is what the SG and A on Benchmark is going to be. I'm just trying to get a handle on what or maybe you can just shortcut it Speaker 200:20:51to me. Speaker 400:20:52I mean, what do we own with Benchmark and so we can begin to feel get a sense of valuation? Yes. Speaker 200:21:01So we own with Benchmark, we are in a company called Benchmark. Benchmark owns 2 assets. They own the first asset that we bought half of and they own the second asset, which we closed subsequent to the end of the quarter, which pro form a for our investment and our partner's equity investment into that, we will own 73.5% of the combination of those two assets. Speaker 400:21:29Okay. Speaker 200:21:33Which is roughly together on a pro form a basis $50,000,000 of earnings, of which 73.5% would be net to our stake. Speaker 400:21:45Okay. Now that's aspirational, the $50,000,000 in earnings. How long do you think it'll take to gear up to achieve that? Speaker 200:22:00So you're not going to see it all in 2024 because we closed larger of the 2 acquisitions in April. But that is at current oil and gas prices and recall we're hedged 3 years out 70% on the strip. And so you'll start to see those numbers roll through on a monthly basis. They will ramp because they'll come into our financial statements on a monthly and quarterly basis. Speaker 400:22:27Right. Speaker 200:22:28But the company is running at that level of earnings today. Speaker 400:22:33Right. And so monthly, well, 0.735 times $50,000,000 divided by 12. I mean, eventually we're going to see $2,500,000 $3,000,000 of cash flow come to us from this investment? Speaker 200:22:55Every month, you'll see it quarterly, Brett. But yes, every month, that's roughly the amount of cash flow that will be generated from this investment. Speaker 400:23:05Why don't you do some more of this stuff? Speaker 200:23:10Well, look, I mean, that's we joke and laugh about it, but those are the types of opportunities that we're looking for. And so our strike zone is very tight in terms of risk management and risk reward. And we do not want to be an oil and gas company. We want to have a diversified portfolio, but we're looking at other opportunities in other industries where the profile is similar to this. And so those are the types of acquisitions that we're looking to add into our portfolio. Speaker 400:23:44Right, right. Now one last one, a little change in direction. Last conference call, you mentioned strong pipeline of opportunities outside oil and gas. Another quarter has passed and we've not seen you pull the trigger on any of it. And then you said earlier in your comments, deals and bank credit is loosening up, does this make it more likely you can get a deal or less likely? Speaker 200:24:27Look, the way I would answer that question is to say that we're not looking to buy companies the sake of buying companies. We're looking to buy companies where we can have a really nice risk reward profile associated with them. And the volume of M and A will be dictated by the types of opportunities we see. We are seeing a lot of things that are quite interesting right now. We are looking at things that are off the run. Speaker 200:24:58We're looking at things that others don't understand. And in these types of transactions, we have counterparties and we need to negotiate to a point where both counterparties are willing to transact. And that's our job is to find those opportunities and get to a point where we can transact at a price and on terms that are attractive to our shareholders. And so we're not looking to do an acquisition a month. We're looking to do an acquisition when that acquisition makes sense collectively for all of us to preserve and grow our GAAP release. Speaker 400:25:36Right. One last one, it's the macroeconomic backdrop, is this ballyhooed soft landing or in the alternative, we have a hard landing. Would a hard landing make it more likely you can get a deal outside of oil and gas done? Speaker 200:26:02I don't think it hurts. And it really just depends on the particular companies that we are seeing that we like and think there's opportunity in and who owns the companies and what the situation is. But we're not looking to make macro related bets. If we have a hard landing, historically that has been a very good time to buy companies if you have conviction around the cycle. And so we are not calling the macro picture. Speaker 200:26:36We're not waiting for recession. We're not assuming that the market will continue to be in a Goldilocks phase indefinitely. It's really a case by case situation. And as I mentioned earlier, each of the companies that we're looking at is very idiosyncratic. Speaker 400:26:54Great. Thank you for answering all my questions. I will drop back in queue. Thank you. Speaker 200:27:00Yes, of course. Thanks, Brett. Nice to hear from Operator00:27:09you. Your next question is coming from a private investor, Ron Heller. Please pose your question. Your line is live. Speaker 600:27:17Hi. Can you go through Speaker 700:27:19the cash on the balance sheet again? I think we went from $400,000,000 and I heard two numbers $439,000,000 Speaker 600:27:25and $460,000,000 Can you clarify that? Speaker 200:27:29Yes. Hey, Kirsten, you want to take that one? Speaker 300:27:32Sure. One sec. So yes, the $439,000,000 is our cash and cash equivalents as of the end of March. And then the $460,000,000 includes our cash and equity securities. Speaker 700:27:51And that's up from the previously reported $400,000,000 Can you tell me what the delta is on that? Speaker 300:27:58Sure. We had some receivables as of the end of December from our IP group that were all collected in the quarter. That was really the biggest driver of the increase. Speaker 200:28:15The company so there's Oh, The Speaker 300:28:18company so there's Sorry, excuse me. And also, as we mentioned, in the Q4, we recorded an unrealized gain on our Eric's investment for the forward sale contract that we had that closed also in the quarter and turned to cash. Speaker 200:28:35Yes. So Ron, if you take the December 31 cash number, add the cash receipts from the intellectual property business and the Eric sale, which moved from a marketable security to cash, with a slight gain associated to the twelvethirty one marketable security number when we actually converted it into cash. That's how you get to the numbers that Kiersten is talking about. And then the other number that I mentioned is pro form a for the funding of the 2nd Benchmark acquisition will have approximately $400,000,000 of cash and securities, but liquid marketable securities that we can use to go deploy into other acquisitions. Speaker 700:29:20Okay. Two more questions. Back in November of 2023, the company announced a buyback of stock. No obligation to buy stock back, but I think it was $20,000,000 not to exceed 5,000,000 shares. Has the company bought any stock back to date? Speaker 200:29:38We have not bought any stock back yet, Ron. Speaker 700:29:41Okay. And did the company intend to buy stock back when they made the announcement in the Q4? And if so, why hasn't the company bought any stock back considering it's been at, in some cases, a 30% discount to book value? Speaker 200:30:03I appreciate you asking the question. We are evaluating it on a consistent basis and we're seeing a lot of opportunities to deploy cash into acquisitions. So when we think it's opportunistic, we'll buy stock back. And if we don't think it's opportunistic or it's less opportunistic than making acquisitions, then we use cash to make acquisitions. Speaker 700:30:27One footnote, one question regarding the lot of time and releases time and conversation with CEC and Speaker 200:30:35the release has been Speaker 700:30:36on book value per share. And is my math correct that if you did buy stock back or any company bought stock back at significant discount that it would by definition increase the book value per share? Speaker 200:30:51As a general theory, yes, that is correct. The magnitude of which this buyback increases book value per share is attractive. But again, we have attractive ways to support the cap. Speaker 600:31:06Okay. Thank you. Speaker 200:31:08Of course. Operator00:31:10Your next question is coming from Adam Eagleston with Formidable Asset Management. Please post your question. Your line is live. Speaker 800:31:19Hey, I'm Jay Korsen. How are you today? Speaker 200:31:21Hey, Adam. How's it going? Speaker 500:31:23Fine. Speaker 800:31:24Good, good. Doing well. Ron, beat me to the punch on the buyback question, but would love to hear a little bit more or just echo his sentiment about that being as the cost of capital, so to speak. I hope that's the way you and the Board are looking at it. In terms of the legacy Woodford, you don't talk much about those. Speaker 800:31:44They're sort of orphaned at this point. Any impetus by management to divest those or do something with them? Is there a market out there for those assets? Speaker 200:31:57Yes. I appreciate you asking the question and you're right, we didn't mention it in the transcript. I would use the term non core as opposed to orphan maybe because we do work those assets pretty hard. And hence the goal is to create liquidity on those assets. And as you know, there are 2 biotech companies. Speaker 200:32:16The overwhelming majority of the value there is 2 biotech companies and we are actively working to create liquidity in those positions. Speaker 800:32:27Got it. Great. And that's a good segue actually as we think about the market opportunities out there. You mentioned biotech and there's clearly a lot of carnage in that space. Is there any opportunity in that orphan biotech space? Speaker 800:32:41And again, apologies for the shorter term, but with regard to some publicly traded biotechs that are sub cash, etcetera, or is that one of those cliched kind of too hard facts as you think about the public market opportunity? Speaker 200:32:53I mean, I think the answer to the question is a little bit in between the 2 kind of goalposts you put out there. I would say in the past, we have evaluated some of the net nets in the pharmaceutical world. One of the issues is without control, you can't really affect the change or the trajectory of the cash burn, which gives us a little bit of ARPU. And then with the control, you're effectively taking technology risk and that's not really the business that we've set out to be in. We are looking for companies with durable earnings. Speaker 200:33:27And so there is potential alpha in those names. I'm candidly not sure that we're the right people with the right folks on staff and experience to be able to pick that horse. And so while it is alluring from a valuation standpoint for us, we don't know we're not exactly sure how we create value out of those opportunities as opposed to just betting on a horse. Speaker 800:33:57Got it. Understood. That's fair. Thanks for taking the call. Speaker 200:34:01Yes, of course. Operator00:34:03Your next question is coming from Todd Selter with 88 Management. Please proceed your question. Your line is live. Speaker 500:34:09Thank you. Congratulations on a solid quarter. Quick question. When I look at the income statement, we're sitting with $400,000,000 large and I know T bills and money market accounts are yielding in the area of 5%, which should generate somewhere around $5,000,000 a quarter. Where do we see any income generated from our liquidity on our income statement? Speaker 200:34:38Kirsty, do you Speaker 500:34:39want to take that one? Speaker 300:34:40Yes. You'll see that in the other operating or other income and expense and there's a line interest income and other, is $4,900,000 for the quarter. Speaker 500:34:52Great. Okay. Appreciate that, Kristen. Speaker 400:34:58Sure. Speaker 500:35:00Okay. MJ, keep up good work with the team. We appreciate you and thank you. Speaker 200:35:05Yes. Thanks, Todd. Operator00:35:09There appear to be no further questions in queue at this time. I would now like to turn the floor back over to N. J. For any closing remarks. Speaker 200:35:16Thanks for everyone's participation here today. Thanks for paying attention. And we appreciate the questions and the idea flow that we get from you all because we're you're an investor in us, but we're all in the same business in certain ways. And so we love to hear the ideas that come our way from you all and we'll talk to you next quarter. Operator00:35:45Thank you everyone. This does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.Read morePowered by Conference Call Audio Live Call not available Earnings Conference CallACM Research Q1 202400:00 / 00:00Speed:1x1.25x1.5x2x Earnings DocumentsPress Release(8-K)Quarterly report(10-Q) ACM Research Earnings HeadlinesWith 61% ownership of the shares, ACM Research, Inc. (NASDAQ:ACMR) is heavily dominated by institutional ownersApril 14, 2025 | finance.yahoo.comIs ACM Research, Inc. 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(ACMR) the Best Russell 2000 Stock to Buy According to Wall Street Analysts?April 11, 2025 | insidermonkey.comACM Research Receives 2025 3D InCites Technology Enablement AwardApril 10, 2025 | globenewswire.comIs ACM Research, Inc.'s (NASDAQ:ACMR) Recent Stock Performance Tethered To Its Strong Fundamentals?March 31, 2025 | finance.yahoo.comSee More ACM Research Headlines Get Earnings Announcements in your inboxWant to stay updated on the latest earnings announcements and upcoming reports for companies like ACM Research? Sign up for Earnings360's daily newsletter to receive timely earnings updates on ACM Research and other key companies, straight to your email. Email Address About ACM ResearchACM Research (NASDAQ:ACMR), together with its subsidiaries, develops, manufactures, and sells single-wafer wet cleaning equipment for enhancing the manufacturing process and yield for integrated chips worldwide. It offers space alternated phase shift technology for flat and patterned wafer surfaces, which employs alternating phases of megasonic waves to deliver megasonic energy in a uniform manner on a microscopic level; timely energized bubble oscillation technology for patterned wafer surfaces at advanced process nodes, which provides cleaning for 2D and 3D patterned wafers; Tahoe technology for delivering cleaning performance using less sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide; and electro-chemical plating technology for advanced metal plating. The company markets and sells its products under the SAPS, TEBO, ULTRA C, ULTRA Fn, Ultra ECP, Ultra ECP map, and Ultra ECP ap trademarks through direct sales force and third-party representatives. 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There are 9 speakers on the call. Operator00:00:00Good day, and welcome to the Acacia Research First Quarter 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After management's prepared remarks, there will be a question and answer session. I would now like to turn the call over to Rob Fink. Please go ahead. Speaker 100:00:18Thank you, operator. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. Hosting the call today are M. J. McNulty, Chief Executive Officer and Kirsten Hoover, Interim Chief Financial Officer. Speaker 100:00:30Before beginning, I'd like to remind you that the information provided during this call may contain forward looking statements relating to Kurniak's patience, estimates, forecasts and projections about future events that are forward looking as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward looking statements generally relate to the company's plans, objectives and expectations for future operations and are based on the current estimates and projections, future results or trends. Actual results may differ materially from those projected as a result of certain risks and uncertainties. For a discussion of such risks and uncertainties, please see the risk factors as described in Acacia's annual report on Form 10 ks and quarterly reports on Form 10 Q, both of which are filed with the SEC. I'd also like to remind everyone that a press release disclosing the financial results was issued this afternoon just after the close of market. Speaker 100:01:26The release may be accessed on the company's website under the Press Release section of the Investor Relations tab at acaciaresearch.com. With all that said, I'd now like to turn the call over to MJ. MJ, the call is yours. Speaker 200:01:41Thanks very much, Rob. In the short time since our last call, we've continued to execute on our capital allocation strategy. We've realized gains from our IT monetization business and cash flows from Printronix and have deployed capital into our new oil and gas business. Our focus continues to be 2 fold. 1st, growing cash flow and earnings from our current businesses and second, continuing to evaluate opportunities to acquire new businesses into our platform. Speaker 200:02:08Our team has been busy identifying opportunistic situations where our research execution and operating partners can drive attractive earnings and book value per share growth. As it relates to the specifics, in terms of sources of capital, our IP monetization business generated $13,600,000 in growth settlements and patent license agreements in the Q1. These agreements further bolster our position to pursue additional licensing agreements and settlements and our team is advancing discussions with other potential licensees. The Wi Fi 6 patent portfolio continues to represent a lucrative opportunity for periodic cash events and we believe there's significant incremental value in these patents. Additionally, we continue to evaluate potential additional capital investment into this business to acquire new patent portfolios when we believe there are attractive risk reward opportunities. Speaker 200:03:03Also, as you will recall, Acacia acquired Petronix operating business in October of 2021. At the time we acquired the business, we believed it represented an attractive price relative to the cash flow able to be generated and recognized there would be some level of operational and strategic restructuring required. Beginning in early 2023, this team began the detailed work of putting the restructuring in motion by replacing the Printronix management team and bringing an operating advisor into the business to formulate and execute on continuous improvement and efficiency initiatives, including significant cost rationalization. These initiatives are bearing fruit. We've now transitioned Printronix from consuming approximately $3,800,000 in cash during the LTM period ended March 31, 2023 to generating approximately 6 point $1,000,000 in cash during the LTM period ending March 31, 2024. Speaker 200:03:56We further defined and implemented the business's value proposition and go to market strategy for both printers and our high margin consumables business. We're pleased with the progress of Printronix and believe its dual hardware and consumables business model combined with its streamlined operating structure represent a nice source of cash flow for Acacia. Turning to our capital allocation initiatives. Early in the second quarter, Benchmark, our oil and gas business unit closed its first significant acquisition, purchasing an attractive group of assets in Texas and Oklahoma. With the closing of the new acquisition now behind us, our experienced team at Benchmark has begun implementing its operational improvement plan. Speaker 200:04:35As we've stated previously, operational improvements are a meaningful part of our strategy. Our goal is to acquire mature, long lived assets and deploy various field enhancements including artificial lift optimization, a more active well maintenance program and reopening previously closed wells. Benchmark's core strategy is improving the production and efficiency of its assets to maximize cash flow. As a reminder, this acquisition significantly expands the Benchmark portfolio, adding approximately 140,000 net acres and approximately 4 and 70 operated producing wells in the Western Anadarko Basin throughout the Texas Panhandle and Western Oklahoma, including meaningful exposure to the emerging Cherokee development play via both operated acreage and non operated arrangements with best in class operators. As we mentioned before, we like these assets because of their liquids rich nature being predominantly oil based with a production base of approximately 6,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day exhibiting a low decline profile. Speaker 200:05:38Kirsten will discuss the financial results for Benchmark specific to the Q1 before we close the transaction. And I would highlight that in our next earnings, you should begin to see the significant benefits we expect from the platform in terms of revenue and free cash flow generation. We expect the consolidated benchmark NAD to generate approximately $50,000,000 in asset level cash flow over the next 12 months at current strip pricing. As a reminder, Acacia owns 73.5 percent of Benchmark Energy pro form a for the transaction. Consistent with our risk management approach, upon closing, Benchmark implemented hedges for over 70% of its operated oil and gas production for the next 3 years at attractive price levels, protecting a significant portion of the returns we've underwrote when we signed the deal in February. Speaker 200:06:28With Benchmark's additional scale, we've been able to bring on additional hedging counterparties that not only help us achieve the best pricing, but also allow us to diversify risk. Taking this acquisition into account, Acacia has approximately $400,000,000 in capital to deploy into new acquisitions. We believe the oil and gas business represents an attractive complement to our acquisition initiatives in Industrials, Technology and Healthcare, where we also continue to evaluate operating businesses to add to our portfolio. Overall, the M and A environment is encouraging for the Acacia strategy, and we're seeing a strong pipeline of both public and private opportunities that fit well within our desired characteristics. While Acacia is less reliant on leverage for returns than our financial buyer counterparts, the lending environment appears to be opening up and we have seen traditional banks starting to reemerge after being on the sidelines for the last year. Speaker 200:07:23This will allow us to be opportunistic in utilizing leverage as we evaluate total cost of capital in each acquisition we make. In the public markets, while valuations generally remain elevated, we're searching for and finding opportunities that are not well understood or where we believe our ownership can unlock significantly more value. We're continuing to see more situations where the market is creating attractive opportunities for buyers willing to do the fundamental work to understand the situation and find value. As a result of these activities this quarter, our book value per share at March 31, 2024 was $5.89 per share compared to $5.90 per share at December 31, 2023. Excluding an additional accrual of $6,200,000 related to the AIP matter, which is discussed in greater detail in our 10 Q, our adjusted book value per share on March 31, 2024 would have been $5.95 a share. Speaker 200:08:25As a reminder, the AIP matter relates to an ongoing legal matter involving a profits interest plan adopted by prior members of management and the Board in 2017. The profits interest plan granted a profit interest in Veritone 10% warrants certain members of management and the Board has compensation for services rendered. Importantly, those members of management and the Board separated from Acacia in 2018 2019 and the Veritone 10% warrants were exercised in 2020 and 2021. As we mentioned before, book value per share and is the primary metric on which our team's compensation is based. We believe this creates very close alignment with our shareholders. Speaker 200:09:14Finally, I'd like to note that the Board of Directors has nominated Michelle Feldman, an accomplished executive with more than 3 decades of experience in real estate, finance and investing to serve as an independent director for election at the company's annual meeting of stockholders to be held on May 21, 2024. Michelle is set to fill the vacancy left by Catherine Walenek, who has served as an independent director since January 2019 and it was not standing for reelection for a term, which is set to expire at the annual meeting. I'd like to thank Catherine for her service to Acacia during a period of transition. Her voice and counsel have been invaluable. And on behalf of Acacia and our shareholders, I'd like to express our gratitude. Speaker 200:10:02Ms. Thalmann brings strong Board and operating expertise to Acacia, having served on several public and private company boards. She currently serves on the Board of Directors of Cushman and Wakefield, chairing the nominating and governance committee and serving as a member of the Compensation Committee. In addition, she recently completed her term as an Advisory Director at Investcorp, a leading provider and manager of alternative investment products. She also served as a trustee of the Partners Group, a global private equity firm, where she was Chair of the Investment Oversight Committee and a member of the Audit Committee and the Compensation and Governance Committee. Speaker 200:10:38More on Ms. Felman's impressive background and experience can be found in our proxy materials located in the Filings and Financial section of our website. We're confident that Ms. Filman's deep and relevant industry expertise as well as her experience on public company boards will be invaluable to Acacia going forward. I'd now like to turn the call over to Kirsten to discuss our Q1 results. Speaker 300:11:02Thank you, MJ. Our GAAP book value at March 31, 2024 was 589,600,000 or $5.89 per share. Excluding the impact of the additional accrual of $6,200,000 related to the AIP matter MJ discussed earlier, our book value per share at March 31, 2024 would have been $5.95 per share. Printronix generated $2,800,000 in cash during the quarter, reflecting the changes and process improvements to optimize operational efficiencies that have taken place over the past year. We expect Printronix to continue to generate free cash flow on an annual basis. Speaker 300:11:54Benchmark's operating income during the quarter was $200,000 which included $400,000 of non cash depreciation, depletion and amortization and does not reflect $800,000 of realized derivative gains. Now let me turn to the Q1 results. Total revenues were $24,300,000 compared to $14,800,000 in the same quarter last year. Let me break this down between our operating segments. The intellectual property business generated $13,600,000 in licensing and other revenue during the quarter, compared to $4,200,000 in the same quarter last year, reflecting an increase in the number of license agreements executed quarter over quarter and higher average license fees. Speaker 300:12:49Printronics, our industrial operations business generated $8,800,000 in revenues during the quarter compared to $10,600,000 in the same quarter last year. Benchmark, our energy operations, which we acquired on November 13, 2023, generated $1,900,000 in revenue in the quarter, which excludes gains on hedging contracts of $800,000 As a reminder, in April, we closed Benchmark's first acquisition following Acacia's initial investment. Results from this acquisition will be reported beginning in our Q2. Pro form a for the acquisition, we will own 73.5 percent of this this subsidiary. General and administrative expenses were $12,400,000 compared to $12,000,000 in the same quarter of year, with the increase due to the increase in variable performance based compensation costs for the intellectual property segment, partially offset by a decrease in parent legal fees and a decrease in Printronix G and A. Speaker 300:14:05Operating loss was $2,100,000 compared to an operating loss of $9,300,000 in the same quarter of last year, with the decrease due to higher revenues generated in the IP business. Printronix contributed $1,200,000 in operating income, which included $700,000 of non cash depreciation and amortization expense. Benchmark contributed $200,000 in operating income, which included $400,000 in non cash depreciation and depletion expense. GAAP net loss attributable to Acacia Research Corporation was $200,000 or $0.00 per share compared to GAAP net income attributable to Acacia of $9,400,000 or a loss of $0.07 per diluted share in the Q1 of last year. Diluted earnings per share adjusts the numerator used in the basic earnings per share computation for the fair value adjustments on warrant and embedded derivative liabilities, resulting in a diluted net loss attributable to common stockholders. Speaker 300:15:20Excluding the impact of the additional accrual relating to the AIP matter, which represented $0.06 earnings per share, our earnings per share for the Q1 of 2024 would be $0.06 per share. As of March 31, 2024, our NOL totaled approximately 18,000,000 dollars We will continue to evaluate the most efficient ways to maximize this asset. Turning now to the balance sheet. Cash, cash equivalents and equity securities at fair value totaled $461,700,000 at March 31, 2024, compared to $403,200,000 at December 31, 2023. Equity securities without readily determinable fair value totaled $5,800,000 at March 31, 2024, unchanged from December 31, 2023. Speaker 300:16:22Investment securities, representing Equity Method Investments, net of non controlling interest, totaled $19,900,000 at March 31, 2024, unchanged from December 31, 2023. Acacia owns 64% of Mallin J1, which results in a 26% ownership stake in ViaMet Pharmaceuticals for Acacia. The company currently carries no parent debt, having paid off its senior secured notes on July 13, 2023, and $13,000,000 in non recourse debt at Benchmark as of March 31, 2024. We continue to believe that cash per share is an important metric for measuring our progress. As of March 31, 2024, our cash per share stood at $4.39 per share. Speaker 300:17:19More details on these results have been made available in the press release that was issued this afternoon and in our quarterly report on Form 10 Q, which we will file with the SEC later today. With that, we'd be pleased to take your questions. Operator00:17:37Certainly. The floor is now open for questions. Your first question is coming from Brett Reiss with Janney Montgomery Scott. Please pose your question. Your line is live. Speaker 400:18:01Hi, MJ. Hi, Kirsten. Speaker 200:18:04Hey, Brad. How are you doing? Hi. Speaker 400:18:06I'm good. I just have a couple of questions to get my arms around Speaker 500:18:15the bench Speaker 400:18:18investment. Benchmark? Yes, benchmark, sorry. So we basically have laid out $67,000,000 for the 73.5 percent interest we have in it. Do we value it or market at $67,000,000 I'm just wondering why the book value after this investment did not move up? Speaker 200:18:46Yes. I mean, so that's a great question, Brett. So it is valued, well, two points. The 60 $7,000,000 for the 2nd acquisition of Benchmark, remember the first we made in November, and we invested roughly $10,000,000 for half the company is mark to cost. The second investment, which is the much larger of the 2, which we closed this year, was actually closed in April. Speaker 200:19:19So it's not yet reflected in the numbers because it wasn't a Q1 event, but you'll see that you'll start to see that in the second quarter. Speaker 400:19:28Right. Speaker 200:19:30But broadly, how we think about it when you do see it in the second quarter is we're taking cash and we're investing it into those assets. And with those assets marked at cost or there's a little bit of expense that goes against it For deal related expenses, you shouldn't see a material appreciation of book value because you're trading cash for an asset. So you're just moving around the asset side of the balance sheet. Speaker 400:19:55Okay. I appreciate that. Now somewhere in my notes at the benchmark company level, it was anticipated or expected to generate $45,000,000 in EBITDA or cash operating cash flow? Do you recall this number? Speaker 200:20:18Yes. That's what we mentioned on our last call. It was cash flow at the asset level, which is effectively yes. Speaker 400:20:28All right. So we're entitled to 73.5 percent of that $45,000,000 And then what we don't know is what the SG and A on Benchmark is going to be. I'm just trying to get a handle on what or maybe you can just shortcut it Speaker 200:20:51to me. Speaker 400:20:52I mean, what do we own with Benchmark and so we can begin to feel get a sense of valuation? Yes. Speaker 200:21:01So we own with Benchmark, we are in a company called Benchmark. Benchmark owns 2 assets. They own the first asset that we bought half of and they own the second asset, which we closed subsequent to the end of the quarter, which pro form a for our investment and our partner's equity investment into that, we will own 73.5% of the combination of those two assets. Speaker 400:21:29Okay. Speaker 200:21:33Which is roughly together on a pro form a basis $50,000,000 of earnings, of which 73.5% would be net to our stake. Speaker 400:21:45Okay. Now that's aspirational, the $50,000,000 in earnings. How long do you think it'll take to gear up to achieve that? Speaker 200:22:00So you're not going to see it all in 2024 because we closed larger of the 2 acquisitions in April. But that is at current oil and gas prices and recall we're hedged 3 years out 70% on the strip. And so you'll start to see those numbers roll through on a monthly basis. They will ramp because they'll come into our financial statements on a monthly and quarterly basis. Speaker 400:22:27Right. Speaker 200:22:28But the company is running at that level of earnings today. Speaker 400:22:33Right. And so monthly, well, 0.735 times $50,000,000 divided by 12. I mean, eventually we're going to see $2,500,000 $3,000,000 of cash flow come to us from this investment? Speaker 200:22:55Every month, you'll see it quarterly, Brett. But yes, every month, that's roughly the amount of cash flow that will be generated from this investment. Speaker 400:23:05Why don't you do some more of this stuff? Speaker 200:23:10Well, look, I mean, that's we joke and laugh about it, but those are the types of opportunities that we're looking for. And so our strike zone is very tight in terms of risk management and risk reward. And we do not want to be an oil and gas company. We want to have a diversified portfolio, but we're looking at other opportunities in other industries where the profile is similar to this. And so those are the types of acquisitions that we're looking to add into our portfolio. Speaker 400:23:44Right, right. Now one last one, a little change in direction. Last conference call, you mentioned strong pipeline of opportunities outside oil and gas. Another quarter has passed and we've not seen you pull the trigger on any of it. And then you said earlier in your comments, deals and bank credit is loosening up, does this make it more likely you can get a deal or less likely? Speaker 200:24:27Look, the way I would answer that question is to say that we're not looking to buy companies the sake of buying companies. We're looking to buy companies where we can have a really nice risk reward profile associated with them. And the volume of M and A will be dictated by the types of opportunities we see. We are seeing a lot of things that are quite interesting right now. We are looking at things that are off the run. Speaker 200:24:58We're looking at things that others don't understand. And in these types of transactions, we have counterparties and we need to negotiate to a point where both counterparties are willing to transact. And that's our job is to find those opportunities and get to a point where we can transact at a price and on terms that are attractive to our shareholders. And so we're not looking to do an acquisition a month. We're looking to do an acquisition when that acquisition makes sense collectively for all of us to preserve and grow our GAAP release. Speaker 400:25:36Right. One last one, it's the macroeconomic backdrop, is this ballyhooed soft landing or in the alternative, we have a hard landing. Would a hard landing make it more likely you can get a deal outside of oil and gas done? Speaker 200:26:02I don't think it hurts. And it really just depends on the particular companies that we are seeing that we like and think there's opportunity in and who owns the companies and what the situation is. But we're not looking to make macro related bets. If we have a hard landing, historically that has been a very good time to buy companies if you have conviction around the cycle. And so we are not calling the macro picture. Speaker 200:26:36We're not waiting for recession. We're not assuming that the market will continue to be in a Goldilocks phase indefinitely. It's really a case by case situation. And as I mentioned earlier, each of the companies that we're looking at is very idiosyncratic. Speaker 400:26:54Great. Thank you for answering all my questions. I will drop back in queue. Thank you. Speaker 200:27:00Yes, of course. Thanks, Brett. Nice to hear from Operator00:27:09you. Your next question is coming from a private investor, Ron Heller. Please pose your question. Your line is live. Speaker 600:27:17Hi. Can you go through Speaker 700:27:19the cash on the balance sheet again? I think we went from $400,000,000 and I heard two numbers $439,000,000 Speaker 600:27:25and $460,000,000 Can you clarify that? Speaker 200:27:29Yes. Hey, Kirsten, you want to take that one? Speaker 300:27:32Sure. One sec. So yes, the $439,000,000 is our cash and cash equivalents as of the end of March. And then the $460,000,000 includes our cash and equity securities. Speaker 700:27:51And that's up from the previously reported $400,000,000 Can you tell me what the delta is on that? Speaker 300:27:58Sure. We had some receivables as of the end of December from our IP group that were all collected in the quarter. That was really the biggest driver of the increase. Speaker 200:28:15The company so there's Oh, The Speaker 300:28:18company so there's Sorry, excuse me. And also, as we mentioned, in the Q4, we recorded an unrealized gain on our Eric's investment for the forward sale contract that we had that closed also in the quarter and turned to cash. Speaker 200:28:35Yes. So Ron, if you take the December 31 cash number, add the cash receipts from the intellectual property business and the Eric sale, which moved from a marketable security to cash, with a slight gain associated to the twelvethirty one marketable security number when we actually converted it into cash. That's how you get to the numbers that Kiersten is talking about. And then the other number that I mentioned is pro form a for the funding of the 2nd Benchmark acquisition will have approximately $400,000,000 of cash and securities, but liquid marketable securities that we can use to go deploy into other acquisitions. Speaker 700:29:20Okay. Two more questions. Back in November of 2023, the company announced a buyback of stock. No obligation to buy stock back, but I think it was $20,000,000 not to exceed 5,000,000 shares. Has the company bought any stock back to date? Speaker 200:29:38We have not bought any stock back yet, Ron. Speaker 700:29:41Okay. And did the company intend to buy stock back when they made the announcement in the Q4? And if so, why hasn't the company bought any stock back considering it's been at, in some cases, a 30% discount to book value? Speaker 200:30:03I appreciate you asking the question. We are evaluating it on a consistent basis and we're seeing a lot of opportunities to deploy cash into acquisitions. So when we think it's opportunistic, we'll buy stock back. And if we don't think it's opportunistic or it's less opportunistic than making acquisitions, then we use cash to make acquisitions. Speaker 700:30:27One footnote, one question regarding the lot of time and releases time and conversation with CEC and Speaker 200:30:35the release has been Speaker 700:30:36on book value per share. And is my math correct that if you did buy stock back or any company bought stock back at significant discount that it would by definition increase the book value per share? Speaker 200:30:51As a general theory, yes, that is correct. The magnitude of which this buyback increases book value per share is attractive. But again, we have attractive ways to support the cap. Speaker 600:31:06Okay. Thank you. Speaker 200:31:08Of course. Operator00:31:10Your next question is coming from Adam Eagleston with Formidable Asset Management. Please post your question. Your line is live. Speaker 800:31:19Hey, I'm Jay Korsen. How are you today? Speaker 200:31:21Hey, Adam. How's it going? Speaker 500:31:23Fine. Speaker 800:31:24Good, good. Doing well. Ron, beat me to the punch on the buyback question, but would love to hear a little bit more or just echo his sentiment about that being as the cost of capital, so to speak. I hope that's the way you and the Board are looking at it. In terms of the legacy Woodford, you don't talk much about those. Speaker 800:31:44They're sort of orphaned at this point. Any impetus by management to divest those or do something with them? Is there a market out there for those assets? Speaker 200:31:57Yes. I appreciate you asking the question and you're right, we didn't mention it in the transcript. I would use the term non core as opposed to orphan maybe because we do work those assets pretty hard. And hence the goal is to create liquidity on those assets. And as you know, there are 2 biotech companies. Speaker 200:32:16The overwhelming majority of the value there is 2 biotech companies and we are actively working to create liquidity in those positions. Speaker 800:32:27Got it. Great. And that's a good segue actually as we think about the market opportunities out there. You mentioned biotech and there's clearly a lot of carnage in that space. Is there any opportunity in that orphan biotech space? Speaker 800:32:41And again, apologies for the shorter term, but with regard to some publicly traded biotechs that are sub cash, etcetera, or is that one of those cliched kind of too hard facts as you think about the public market opportunity? Speaker 200:32:53I mean, I think the answer to the question is a little bit in between the 2 kind of goalposts you put out there. I would say in the past, we have evaluated some of the net nets in the pharmaceutical world. One of the issues is without control, you can't really affect the change or the trajectory of the cash burn, which gives us a little bit of ARPU. And then with the control, you're effectively taking technology risk and that's not really the business that we've set out to be in. We are looking for companies with durable earnings. Speaker 200:33:27And so there is potential alpha in those names. I'm candidly not sure that we're the right people with the right folks on staff and experience to be able to pick that horse. And so while it is alluring from a valuation standpoint for us, we don't know we're not exactly sure how we create value out of those opportunities as opposed to just betting on a horse. Speaker 800:33:57Got it. Understood. That's fair. Thanks for taking the call. Speaker 200:34:01Yes, of course. Operator00:34:03Your next question is coming from Todd Selter with 88 Management. Please proceed your question. Your line is live. Speaker 500:34:09Thank you. Congratulations on a solid quarter. Quick question. When I look at the income statement, we're sitting with $400,000,000 large and I know T bills and money market accounts are yielding in the area of 5%, which should generate somewhere around $5,000,000 a quarter. Where do we see any income generated from our liquidity on our income statement? Speaker 200:34:38Kirsty, do you Speaker 500:34:39want to take that one? Speaker 300:34:40Yes. You'll see that in the other operating or other income and expense and there's a line interest income and other, is $4,900,000 for the quarter. Speaker 500:34:52Great. Okay. Appreciate that, Kristen. Speaker 400:34:58Sure. Speaker 500:35:00Okay. MJ, keep up good work with the team. We appreciate you and thank you. Speaker 200:35:05Yes. Thanks, Todd. Operator00:35:09There appear to be no further questions in queue at this time. I would now like to turn the floor back over to N. J. For any closing remarks. Speaker 200:35:16Thanks for everyone's participation here today. Thanks for paying attention. And we appreciate the questions and the idea flow that we get from you all because we're you're an investor in us, but we're all in the same business in certain ways. And so we love to hear the ideas that come our way from you all and we'll talk to you next quarter. Operator00:35:45Thank you everyone. This does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.Read morePowered by