Boise Cascade Q2 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

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August 6, 2024

There are 11 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good morning. My name is Felicia Crabtree, and I will be your conference facilitator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to Boise Cascade's 2nd quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer period.

Operator

It is now my pleasure to introduce you to Chris Forry, Vice President, Finance and Investor Relations, Boise Cascade. Mr. Farid, you may now begin your conference.

Speaker 1

Thank you, Felicia, and good morning, everyone. I'd like to welcome you to Boise Cascade's 2nd quarter 2024 earnings call and business update. Joining me on today's call are Nate Jorgensen, our CEO Kelly Hibbs, our CFO and Treasurer Troy Little, Head of our Wood Products Operations and Jeff Strum, Head of our Building Material Distribution Operations. Turning to slide 2. This call will contain forward looking statements.

Speaker 1

Please review the warning statements in our press release, on the presentation slides and in our filings with the SEC regarding the risks associated with these forward looking statements. Also, please note that the appendix includes reconciliations from our GAAP net income to EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA and segment income to segment EBITDA.

Speaker 2

I will now turn the call over to Nate. Thanks, Chris. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us for our earnings call today. I'm on slide number 3.

Speaker 2

Total U. S. Housing starts decreased 70% driven by lower multifamily starts as single family housing starts increased 7% compared to the prior year quarter. Our consolidated 2nd quarter sales of $1,800,000,000 were down 1% from Q2 2023. Our net income was $112,300,000 or $2.84 per share compared to net income of $146,300,000 or $3.67 per share in the year ago quarter.

Speaker 2

Both of our businesses delivered strong financial results during the quarter while operating in a somewhat tepid demand environment influenced by elevated mortgage rates and economic uncertainties. In addition, spending on our organic growth projects progress as expected and we continue to demonstrate that our returning capital to our shareholders is an important part of our capital deployment strategy. I want to thank our associates across the company who continue to deliver superior value to our customer and vendor partners as we navigate uncertainties posed by the current demand environment. Kelly will now walk through our segment financial results, give some insights on Q3 and then provide an update on our capital allocation in more detail, after which I'll provide an outlook before we take your questions. Kelly?

Speaker 3

Thank you, Nate, and good morning, everyone. Wood's product sales in the 2nd quarter, including sales to our distribution segment were $489,800,000 compared to $530,300,000 in Q2 2023. Wood Products reported segment EBITDA of $95,100,000 down from EBITDA of $127,000,000 reported in the year ago quarter. The decrease in segment EBITDA was due primarily to lower EWP sales prices as well as higher wood fiber and conversion costs. These decreases were offset partially by higher EWP sales volumes.

Speaker 3

BMD sales in the quarter were $1,700,000,000 up 1% from Q2 2023. BMD reported segment EBITDA of $97,100,000 in the 2nd quarter compared to segment EBITDA of $105,900,000 in the prior year quarter. BMD was able to deliver flat gross margin dollars in a challenging environment. As it relates to costs, selling and distribution expenses increased by $10,900,000 mainly due to the Brasco acquisition and general and administrative expenses decreased by 2,000,000 dollars Turning to Slide 5. On a year over year and sequential basis, 2nd quarter volumes for LVL were up 8% 6% respectively, and I joist volumes over the same comparative periods were up by 5% 16%.

Speaker 3

Our EWP volumes continue to be supported by the resilience in single family starts. Sequential pricing for I joists and LVL was down 3% 2%, respectively, due to continued pricing pressure in the market. Turning to Slide 6. Our 2nd quarter plywood sales volumes was 383,000,000 feet compared to 440,000,000 feet in Q2 2023. As expected and consistent with our strategy, plywood volumes decreased during the current quarter as we shifted a higher proportion of our internally produced veneer into EWP production given improved demand for EWP.

Speaker 3

The $362 per 1,000 average plywood net sales price in the second quarter was down 1% year over year and 4 percent sequentially. Plywood pricing weakened steadily as we progressed through the Q2 with our June average price realizations around 340 per 1,000. Moving to Slide 78. VMD's 2nd quarter sales were $1,700,000,000 up 1% from Q2 2023 driven by sales volume increases of 2%, offset partially by sales price decreases of 1%. Excluding the impact of the Brasco acquisition, BMD sales would have decreased 2% from Q2 2023.

Speaker 3

By product line, commodity sales decreased 6%, general line product sales increased 8% and sales of EWP decreased less than 1%. Gross margin dollars were flat when compared with the same quarter last year as lower margin dollars on commodity and EWP products were offset by higher margin dollars generated on general line products. BMD's gross margin percentage was 14.8%, down 20 basis points year over year and sequentially. BMD's EBITDA margin was 5.9 percent for the quarter, down from the 6.5% reported in the year ago quarter, but up 30 basis points sequentially. We are pleased with BMD's performance in the 2nd quarter given the market landscape.

Speaker 3

We benefited from our continued growth in general line products where sales of those products represented 42% of our sales mix in the 2nd quarter, the highest in our history. In commodities, our team's performance was outstanding in the quarter with continued weakness in lumber markets and panel markets that drifted significantly lower as the quarter progressed. I'm now on Slide 9. Looking forward to the Q3, our EWP order intake has slowed in conjunction with recent declines in builder sentiment, weakening single family starts and permits data and ongoing affordability constraints for homebuyers. Assuming we don't see an acceleration of single family starts from recent levels, we expect mid to high single digit sequential volume declines in EWP.

Speaker 3

On EWP pricing, we currently expect low single digit sequential price declines in the Q3. For plywood, we expect our volumes to be comparable to 2nd quarter. However, market conditions have remained weak with July price realizations approximately 10% below our 2nd quarter average. With regards to BMD, our daily sales pace through July is approximately 5% below 2nd quarter daily sales averages. The number of sales days in the 3rd quarter will be consistent with 2nd quarter at 64 days.

Speaker 3

I'm now on Slide 10. We had capital expenditures of $74,000,000 in the 6 months ended June 2024 with $37,000,000 of spending in both Wood Products and BMD. Our capital spending range for 2024 remains at $250,000,000 to $270,000,000 with the pace of spending to accelerate as we move through the back half of the year. In Wood Products, the significant modernization of our Oakdale facility will occur in stages between Q4 2024 and Q2 2025 and plans are in place to mitigate the potential impact to our EWP production in the Southeast region as we take project related downtime at that facility. In BMD, we're excited to have recently broken ground on our new distribution facility in Hondo, Texas and expected to be operational in late 2025.

Speaker 3

Speaking to shareholder returns, we paid $19,000,000 in regular dividends in the first half of twenty 24 and our year to date July share repurchase activity was nearly 768,000 shares for approximately 100,000,000 dollars Today, we have approximately 1,200,000 shares still available for repurchase under our share repurchase program. Also, our Board of Directors recently approved 2 additional dividend payments for our common shareholders, a $0.21 per share quarterly dividend, which represents a 5% increase and also a $5 per share special dividend. Shareholders of record as of September 3rd will receive payment of these dividends on September 16th. In summary, our balance sheet remains very strong and we are committed to our balanced approach to capital allocation that includes ongoing investment in our existing asset base, organic growth projects and returns to our shareholders. We also have the flexibility to execute M and A if opportunities surface that align with our strategy.

Speaker 3

I will turn it back over to Nate to discuss our business outlook.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Kelly. I'm on Slide number 11. Current industry forecast for 2024 U. S. Housing starts are slightly below actual housing starts of $1,420,000 in 2023 as reported by the U.

Speaker 2

S. Census Bureau. Home affordability remains a challenge for many consumers due to the cost of housing combined with elevated mortgage rates. However, with low unemployment and undersupply of existing housing stock available for sale and favorable demographic trends, new residential construction is expected to remain an important source of supply for homebuyers. Multifamily starts have declined sharply from historic levels seen in recent years due to increased capital costs for developers combined with elevated supply.

Speaker 2

Regarding home improvement spending, the age of U. S. Housing stock and elevated levels of home owner equity will continue to provide a favorable backdrop for repair and remodel spending. However, while home improvement spending is expected to remain healthy compared to history, renovation spending has softened due to consumer uncertainty, labor availability, higher borrowing costs and building material inflation. Although near term market demand expectations have moderated, our longer term view on housing fundamentals favorable supported by demographic trends and under built housing stock.

Speaker 2

That constructive long term view in tandem with our outstanding balance sheet affords us the ability to maintain a clear focus on our strategy and the execution of our growth initiatives that position the company for continued success in the future. Thank you for joining us today and your continued support and interest in Boise Cascade. We welcome any questions at this time. Felicia, would you please open the phone lines?

Operator

Thank you. One moment while we compile the Q and A roster. The first question comes from the line of Susan Maklari of Goldman Sachs. Susan, please go ahead. Thank you.

Operator

Good morning, everyone.

Speaker 2

Good morning, Susan.

Speaker 4

I want to start on the performance in the general line segment within BMD. It seems like you are outperforming the market there even with all the noise and some of the shifts that we're seeing in housing broadly. Can you just talk about what is driving some of that? Any of the dynamics that you're seeing across the various products that you're pulling through that segment? And how do you think about the ability to continue to outperform that as you execute on your own initiatives?

Speaker 3

Yes. Hey, Sue, this is Kelly. Good morning. Hope you're well. Yes, so as you know and as we flagged in our commentary, general line is continues to be a focus for us in terms of increasing that portion of our sales mix.

Speaker 3

And we do think it continues to show up well. We have really good alignment with our supplier base and also downstream to our dealer base where those products and services are desired. And so nothing maybe that I'd really specifically call out. But yes, it continues to be a focus. I'll let Jeff maybe add just a little bit more color here.

Speaker 5

This is Jeff. I'll just tell you on the general line. All the projects that we've done and the growth that we've done in adding our footprint has allowed us to go deeper and wider in that segment. The millwork piece continues to grow. And one other thing we did this year is we leaned in really hard during the winter buys and set ourselves up.

Speaker 5

We knew this was going to be a distribution friendly market and so with everything in stock and we continue to grow and move those products right along.

Speaker 2

Hey, Sue, it's Dave. Maybe just one other final comment on that is as you think about our general line of suppliers, our partners, they continue to add to their product mix. And so as you think about their SKU intensity, they're continuing to grow their SKUs and their optionality and that's really great for us on the distribution side to support that. And so that I think part of our the tailwind as well as they introduce new products and new services that's an important part of what we need to execute on their behalf as well.

Speaker 4

Okay. That's very helpful color. And then switching to EWP, as you add the incremental veneer capacity and that comes through and it allows you to grow the volumes in EWP, how are you thinking about that relative to the pricing dynamic for those products? And what's your ability to sort of manage those in the next couple of quarters?

Speaker 2

Yes. I would say, Sue, it's Nate. I think in terms of our EWP footprint, I mean, as you know, our commitment was making sure that we had the right capabilities, including all of our input materials, specifically on veneer side. So making sure that we had the right quantity, quality and price before that for veneer was an important part of what we needed to get done as an organization. I think as we think about going into competing in the marketplace moving forward, we're going to remain obviously centric on what the market needs and what our customers require.

Speaker 2

So in terms of that supply demand balance that will continue to be part of how we think about it. We again feel very good about the capability that we continue to build and as we head into the over the next couple of years, if we have a favorable housing environment specifically single family, again we think we're really well positioned to serve and support our customers in that kind of environment. So nothing we're going to continue to kind of build that capability. And as Kelly described in his comments, some of that activity will begin here in the 3rd Q4 into early next year and making sure that we have those kind of capabilities in Oakdale among other spots.

Speaker 4

Okay. And then just following up on that Nate really quickly. As the builders are positioning to add supply in the back half, they're still really busy on the spec side of things. What does that mean for EWV pricing as you think about the next couple of quarters?

Speaker 2

Yes, I think for EWP, I would say in general, Sue, EWP is really an important part of the builder store, in terms of what they need to get accomplished. And I think specifically there it's one of the things they continue to focus on is cycle times and how do they take complexity out of the job site and add speed and efficiency to the job site. So as I think about what EWP brings to that and to the builder, that's an important deliverable for them moving forward and what they need to get accomplished on reducing cycle times. So I think in terms of the EWP presence, again, we feel good how we're kind of set up going through the balance of this year. And again, we'll stay very close to our builder partners on what they're seeing and experiencing and making sure that again our products and services are set up to support them as they navigate their way through the second half of this year.

Speaker 4

Yes. Okay. And I just want to squeeze one more in, which is, on the capital allocation side of things. It's good to see you starting to get into those buybacks. You've done I think $100,000,000 year to date through July, which is nice to see in there.

Speaker 4

Any thoughts on how you'll approach that last 1,200,000 shares that are available on the authorization? I think it's 1,200,000. And overall in terms of shareholder returns that versus the special dividend?

Speaker 3

Yes. Thanks. So this is Kelly. Yes. And you had the right data you laid out there.

Speaker 3

So maybe just let me think about let me speak to kind of priorities as it relates to capital allocation just a little bit more broadly as we go through the back half of the year. We're going to be focused on executing our capital program, which we do have a big lift ahead of us here in the second half of the year to hit our target. In terms of shareholder returns, we did announce that the nice special dividend recently. I expect we'll continue to be opportunistically in the market buying back shares. No specific to layout how much it went for you today, but that will continue to be part of our playbook.

Speaker 3

And then we do have obviously the capability to do M and A, more M and A if the right opportunity surfaces. Maybe just one brief call I'd give you on that, which is that we did close on a small acquisition just yesterday in Boise, Idaho, actually a small door and millwork operation. That's an existing business, a small entity, but it does have facility, does have employees. And so it gets us a nice little running start into the Boise market. So we were happy to get that done.

Speaker 4

That's great to hear. Okay. Thank you both for all of the color and good luck with everything.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Sue.

Operator

One moment for your next question. The next question comes from the line of Kurt Yinger of D. A. Davidson. Kurt, please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Great. Thanks and good morning everyone. Good morning, Chris. I was hoping to just start off on EWP and I was hoping you could maybe just frame kind of the overall competitive backdrop you're seeing in the markets at this stage? And as you move into the back half of the year, what are you looking at that maybe gives you more optimism that perhaps we're near a bottom on pricing or conversely that things could perhaps get a little bit more challenging here over the back half?

Speaker 7

Good morning, Kurt. This is Troy Little. I'll start and then others can jump in. In terms of the you saw the pressure that we had in the 2nd quarter, some sequential decline in our pricing. We remain targeted on how we approach that.

Speaker 7

It's a geographical situation and so we continue to evaluate. And then we're kind of anticipating as we look out into the Q3 that that pressure is still there as we kind of finished up Q2. And so we see that kind of playing out a little bit more in Q3. So right now, we're still modeling kind of sequential decline in that low to mid single digit. And then that point depending on kind of where things are at relative to buyers on the sideline with the elevated mortgage rates and the home affordability, kind of see where that goes from there.

Speaker 6

In terms of, I guess, the divergence between maybe markets that are softer versus stronger, is that primarily, I guess, just dictated by demand in those markets at this stage or maybe the presence of different competitors? How would you kind of frame that, Troy?

Speaker 7

Yes. I mean, it's probably both, but it's the competitors. What they're doing, we're looking at that responding accordingly. So that's probably the driver.

Speaker 6

Okay. Makes sense. And then, second, Jeff, I think most would sort of describe the demand environment thus far as kind of modestly disappointing relative to maybe what people had hoped a couple of months ago. Are you seeing that sentiment reflected and how your major customers on the DMD side are discussing inventory levels heading into the fall? And in your mind, is that creating the risk around potentially some level of destocking materializing in the back half?

Speaker 5

I would say this. On the commodity side, without a doubt, we're seeing it a bit slower. On the general line, it is very much steady is how I'd kind of describe it. And what the customers are saying to us, there is not one major area of product from what we're hearing while we're overstocked on something that's there's a commonality to it at all. And we talked to our customer base, there might be a pocket here or there on a certain product where they feel a little bit heavy.

Speaker 5

But overall, what everyone is telling us is no, there's not going to be a major destocking, but people are going to buy to exactly what they need. And we're seeing that and feeling it and without a doubt that plays into a distribution friendly market and we're there's no doubt we're seeing it right now.

Speaker 6

Got it. Okay. Appreciate the color. Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from the line of George Staphos of Bank of America. George, please go ahead.

Speaker 8

Thanks so much. Hi, everyone. Good morning. Hope you can hear me okay.

Speaker 2

Yes, you're good, George.

Speaker 8

Hey, thanks for all the details. Two questions to start piggybacking off the last two questions. So Jeff, noticed that working cap to sales, inventory to sales in DMD is up on a percentage basis versus year ago. And more broadly, Kelly, the working capital is up from prior quarters. Now some of that may just be natural pricing, right?

Speaker 8

You're seeing you have higher price perhaps in inventory based on prior trends relative to what's happening in the market right now. But are there any areas where you need to manage maybe to the earlier question down a little bit? And how do you feel about managing against any inventory risks to the P and L? Relatedly, with demand being what it is and prices maybe being off in commodity into the Q3, obviously anything can change. How do you feel about BMD margins 3rd quarter versus 2nd quarter at least directionally if you can give us any thoughts there?

Speaker 8

Thank you.

Speaker 3

Yes. You bet, George. This is Kelly. I'll take a swing at those to start here. So in terms of BMD's overall networking capital, you are correct.

Speaker 3

It is up. And in many cases, that's very intentional. If you think about we now have Roscoe in the mix, we didn't a year ago. We're starting up door shops in Kansas City, starting up door shops in Denver. So things like that are certainly showing up and that's intentional and that's purposeful.

Speaker 3

As it relates to commodities, right now it just doesn't feel like there's a whole lot of downside risk. There might be we're seeing a little bit of lives in lumber. We'll see. But I think we are very well positioned in terms of days on hand and days on order in terms of our inventory. So, you put all that together, I think in short, I'd say we feel good about where we're positioned and we would expect as you get into seasonally softer period into the Q4, we will start to see some generation from working capital seasonally coming down as expected.

Speaker 8

Okay. Thanks for that, Kelly. I know it's hard to call, but given that things are as you anticipated and you said that commodity is not a lot of downside risk from here, again, who knows, but given what we're seeing, given what you're seeing, then would a decent placeholder be to hold your BNB margins relatively consistently in 3Q versus 2Q, if you feel comfortable even commenting to that? Just figured out I'd get one shot.

Speaker 3

Yes, yes, sure. So I'll take a shot. As I sit here today, I would say yes, that's reasonable to assume our gross margins can be similar in the third to what they were the second. There's always the caveat with might we get some surprises on pricing either way, specifically in commodity. So yes, on gross margin.

Speaker 3

On EBITDA margin, I would expect that to again, if our sales pace stays off 5% relative to 2nd quarter average, that would constrain our EBITDA margins a little bit. So we'd be more probably in the mid-5s as opposed to high-5s, if that all plays out.

Speaker 2

Okay. Hey, George, it's Nate. Maybe just another quick comment on that is, Kelly described it well. As you think about the I think the environment that we'll be in as we go through the second half of this year and largely have been in it for a while, the dependence that our customers have on a warehouse remains high. And so if you think about kind of the margin profile and that making sure we're that safe harbor for our customers and our suppliers that they have confidence that we're going to have material on the shelf ready to serve and support them kind of no matter what the market conditions provide.

Speaker 2

So that's part of as you know who we are in the distribution side of things and that will remain an important part of our game plan as we move through the second half of this year.

Speaker 8

Okay. Thanks for that Nate. Last question for me in this round and piggybacking on I think Kurt's question earlier. So as you think about competition in EWP and recognizing this is open mic and all that and you have your own commercial strategies, how much of the competition is coming from producers of similar engineered wood products? And how much, if you had to think about it maybe a quarter or 2 quarters ago, of the pressures coming from open web trusses and things like that or substitution, recognizing it's many ways it can be two sides of the same coin.

Speaker 8

How would you have us think about those things and what it means more importantly really into Q4 into 2025? Thanks guys.

Speaker 2

Hey George, it's Nate. I'll take a shot at that and others could jump in. I think EWP in terms of the competitive landscape is largely around look alike competitors in terms of producing I joist and laminated midyear lumber. So that's I think kind of the starting point for the conversation. There's always questions potentially on plated floor trusses or dimensional lumber, but largely our team has to really kind of navigate the look alike competitors that are out there.

Speaker 2

And again, as I mentioned earlier, I think EWP is well positioned in support of the builders of what they need to get accomplished on cycle time. So again, we feel good about how that shows up relative to some of the other competitive alternatives that are out there.

Speaker 8

Thank you, Nate.

Operator

One moment for the next question. The next question comes from the line of Mike Roxlin of Truist Securities. Mike, please go ahead.

Speaker 9

Yes. Thank you, Nate, Kelly, Chris for taking my questions and congrats on the good quarter despite the challenging environment.

Speaker 6

Thanks Mike.

Speaker 9

I just wanted to follow-up quickly on George's question regarding the EBITDA margin. I get the point around sales pace and whatnot, but is it how do you think about how a higher quality mix should impact your EBITDA margin as well? Because from what I want to understand, the 3Q is typically a higher quality mix quarter. So what type of benefit should have that might be able to offset some of the slower sales pace you're seeing?

Speaker 3

Yes, you're heading in the right direction there, Mike, that we would expect to see generally the general end products do carry a higher gross margin. So to the extent that that becomes a bigger part of your sales mix, that does provide you some opportunity. But I would recognize also that 42% was that's the biggest number we've had in terms of the sales mix for general line. We want to continue that to be in the 40s. But make no mistake commodities will continue to be important part of the sales mix as well as

Speaker 6

EWP. Got

Speaker 9

you. And would it be fair to say that with the general line that the 42%, which is the highest on record for the company as you noted, is something that you think you can maintain in 3Q or look to maintain on a go forward basis?

Speaker 3

Yes. I mean, there are some product categories within general line that probably carry a bit more of a seasonal component that are stronger in the second and the third and then they might tail off in the 4th and the first. But I guess comparatively, 2nd to 3rd, yes, I think we should be able continue it at a similar rate, a similar mix for the Q3.

Speaker 9

Got it. Thank you, Kelly. And then just one last question just on in response to Nate's comment about warehouse sales. Given the increase in volatility in the backdrop, have you seen warehouse sales accelerate? I know you were they had represented around 70% to 75% of your mix.

Speaker 9

That was versus historically around 65% to 70%. Have you seen an acceleration beyond that, particularly just given how volatile the environments have come?

Speaker 5

This is Jeff. Hey, we have absolutely seen the warehouse sales pick up and especially with the uncertainty in the commodity and no real reward for taking a position and people want to rely on it. It's undeniable and you can see clearly in the data that our warehouse sales are picking up.

Speaker 9

Got you, Jeff. Just one quick follow-up, is that so are you beyond the 75%

Speaker 8

that you were quoting call it a

Speaker 9

couple of quarters ago, are you now between 75% 80% in terms of warehouse sales, just a real ballpark?

Speaker 3

No, I don't think I would put us north of 75%, Mike. I think historically it's probably more like 65 and now maybe we're pushing more like 70.

Speaker 9

Got it. Thanks very much guys. Appreciate it. Good luck in the quarter.

Speaker 3

Thank you.

Operator

One moment for your next question. The next question comes from the line of Reuben Garner of Benchmark. Reuben, please go ahead.

Speaker 10

Thank you. Good morning, everybody.

Speaker 3

Hey, Reuben.

Speaker 10

So question, BMD margin to start, more about the breakdown of margins today versus what they were 5, 6, 7 years ago. It seems like the gross margin has stabilized at a materially higher point as of EBITDA, but it looks like maybe the selling distribution costs are a little higher. Can you talk about why that is? Is that things like the higher mix of warehouse, the higher mix of general line, do those come with higher selling expenses? Is that something that we expect to kind of continue on a go forward?

Speaker 10

Any other kind of mix or company specific drivers for that?

Speaker 3

Yes. I think there's a couple of things to speak to Ruben that I'll anecdotally address and then maybe Jeff can add a little color if need be. But selling distribution in terms of the most recent year over year results, really a big part of that is Brosco, right? So we added a meaningful business with nice margin, but also meaningful selling and distribution expenses. And so that's one thing.

Speaker 3

And then just generally our growth across the system, whether it's Roscoe, whether it's Dallas Door in Millwork, Houston Door in Millwork, etcetera. We've added with more sales, you need to have more sales folks, more services, more capabilities. And so I think it's just a natural growth because we are carrying more general line products. But that is purposeful. Anything you'd add, Jeff?

Speaker 5

I'd just say, we do load up with bodies before on the specialty in the millwork place. You have to have people there before you start producing the sales. So there's kind of a timing effect there that's playing into it as well.

Speaker 10

Got it. That's helpful. And then, any specific thing that you'd call out within general line? I know you guys sell a number of products there and I know that some of it is because of investments you've made to grow. Are you actually seeing kind of organic strength or weakness outside of your investments in any particular categories that you call out?

Speaker 5

I would tell you it's really been steady across the board. There are a few areas where we feel like we're picking up some share because we've really committed to making sure we have it on the ground or maybe last year we didn't. And that's why I tell you we lean hard into the winter buy and load it up. And there are certain areas there that I think we have grown some taking share, but across the board I'd say it's pretty even.

Speaker 2

Hey Reuben, it's Nate. Maybe just another data point is I think as we think about the our general line vendors, all of our vendors, but in the general line, we've got there's some terrific brands and terrific franchises that we have again the privilege to kind of represent. So as you think about how they're positioned, and in terms of who they are, what they're doing, including around innovation and new products, that's a great environment for us in D and D. So again, I would probably speak to not only the product, but some of the brands that we represent as well.

Speaker 10

Great. And I'm going to sneak one more big picture question in if I could. Any thoughts or color you could share on what you're seeing from a mixsize of home perspective? I know you guys are usually a pretty early read on some of the building plans that are out there. And I know volume has been pretty strong on the single family front, but how much of a headwind do you think there is from the size of the home, people mixing down or builders mixing down for affordability reasons?

Speaker 10

How would you think about that on a go forward basis?

Speaker 3

Yes. No, I think you're right, Ruben, in terms of year over year, I think home sizes are off something like, I think 5% and then builders obviously needing to respond to affordability concerns for homebuyers, so less amenities. And so that does make its way into if you have smaller structures, you have less consumption of wood. Where do we go forward from here? I guess, I'm not sure I'd venture a guess yet.

Speaker 3

I think it'll depend upon the economy, it'll depend on affordability and mortgage rates. But I wouldn't be brave enough to venture a guess where we might go from here.

Speaker 10

Great. Thanks. Good luck guys going forward.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Ravi.

Operator

One moment for your next question. The next question comes from the line of Ketan Mamtora of BMO. Ketan, please go ahead. Hi, Kitu. Please go ahead.

Operator

The next question comes from the line of George Staphos of Bank of America. George, please go ahead. George? I am actually showing no further questions. So with that being said, I will turn the call back over to Nate Jorgensen.

Operator

Nate, please go ahead.

Speaker 2

Great. Thank you. We appreciate everyone joining us this morning for our update and thank you for your continued interest and support of Boise Cascade. Please be safe and be well. Thank you.

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