Charles River Laboratories International Q2 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
August 7, 2024

There are 13 speakers on the call.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to Charles River Laboratories' 2nd Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. I would now like to turn the conference over to our host, Mr. Todd Spencer, Vice President, Investor Relations. Mr. Spencer, please go ahead, sir.

Speaker 1

Good morning, and welcome to Charles River Laboratories' Q2 2024 Earnings Conference Call and Webcast. This morning, I am joined by Jim Foster, Chair, President and Chief Executive Officer and Flavia Pease, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. They will comment on our results for the Q2 of 2024. Following the presentation, they will respond to questions. There is a slide presentation associated with today's remarks, which will be posted on the Investor Relations section of our website atir.seariver.com.

Speaker 1

A webcast replay of this call will be available beginning approximately 2 hours after the call today and can also be accessed on the Investor Relations section of our website. The replay will be available through next quarter's conference call. I'd like to remind you of our Safe Harbor. All remarks that we make about future expectations, plans and prospects for the company constitute forward looking statements under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Actual results may differ materially from those indicated.

Speaker 1

During this call, we will primarily discuss non GAAP financial measures, which we believe help investors gain a meaningful understanding of our core operating results and guidance. The non GAAP financial measures are not meant to be considered superior to or a substitute for results of operations prepared in accordance with GAAP. In accordance with Regulation G, you can find the comparable GAAP measures and reconciliations on the Investor Relations section of our website. I will now turn the call over to Jim Foster.

Speaker 2

Good morning. I will begin by providing highlights of our 2nd quarter performance and revised guidance. We reported revenue of $1,030,000,000 in the Q2 of 2024, a 3.2% decline on both the reported and organic basis over last year. The top line performance was in line with our outlook as organic revenue growth in the Manufacturing segment was more than offset by DSA and RMS revenue declines. By client segment, we continued to experience lower revenue from small and midsized biotech clients in the 2nd quarter, while revenue from global biopharmaceutical clients increased modestly.

Speaker 2

I'll provide more details on the evolving trends within these two client segments shortly. The operating margin was 21.3%, an increase of 90 basis points year over year. The increase was principally driven by lower performance based bonus compensation accruals in the quarter, reflecting the reduction in our financial outlook for the second half of the year. On a segment basis, a higher operating margin in the Manufacturing segment and lower corporate costs were largely offset by lower margins in RMS and the DSA segments. These lower accruals were the largest contributor to the earnings outperformance in the Q2.

Speaker 2

Earnings per share of $2.80 increased 4.1% year over year and exceeded the implied outlook in our prior guidance by approximately $0.40 We are significantly reducing our financial guidance for the year because forward looking DSA trend data suggests that demand will not improve during the second half of the year as we had previously anticipated and in fact will decline for Global Biopharmaceutical clients. As a result, we are reducing our revenue outlook to a 3% to 5% decline on an organic basis this year and non GAAP earnings per share is now expected to be in a range of 9 $0.90 to $10.20 We intend to partially offset the headwinds through aggressive actions to streamline our cost structure, optimize our global footprint and drive greater operating efficiency, which will enable us to limit the bottom line impact going forward. We believe taking these actions will also enable us to emerge from this period of softer demand as a stronger and leaner organization and better position to capture new business opportunities. Before I discuss the 2nd quarter business segment performance, I will provide more details on these end market demand trends as well as the actions we are taking to manage through the current environment.

Speaker 2

Our financial performance to date, including a low single digit organic revenue decline in the first half, has been largely in line with our initial outlook. However, the lack of a recovery in demand for our biotechnology clients as well as recently emerging and softening demand trends in our global biopharmaceutical client base have caused us to take a much more negative view of our growth prospects for the second half of the year. Because of this, the second half revenue growth that we previously anticipated will not materialize and in fact demand is expected to continue to soften for global biopharmaceutical clients in the near term. These trends for our broader biopharmaceutical client base are expected to lead to a lowtomidsingledigitorganicrevenue decline in the second half of the year on a consolidated basis. As you are aware, most global biopharmaceutical companies have announced major restructuring programs, likely precipitated by the IRA or pending patent expirations or both.

Speaker 2

And this has undoubtedly led to tighter budgets and additional pipeline reprioritization activities this year. Revenue for this client base continued to increase in the 2nd quarter. However, proposal activity and bookings began to notably decline and diverge from biotech clients during the Q2. We now expect demand for global biopharmaceutical clients to further deteriorate over the remainder of the year. We anticipate these trends are also likely to impact the DSA growth rate into 2025, so we are working now to reset our cost base to both withstand the pressures on our bottom line and to better position the company for when demand cycles back.

Speaker 2

Large biopharmaceutical companies are currently focused on resetting their budgets to create leaner cost structures. We expect these actions and the resulting softening of our demand KPIs will continue to cause a period of slower spending by large pharma on their early stage drug development activities, particularly because they are more focused on their clinical pipelines at this time. We believe that these clients continue to view strategic outsourcing as a compelling solution to improve their cost efficiency and speed to market, presenting a longer term opportunity for us once they inevitably refocus on their preclinical pipelines. In contrast to large pharma, demand KPIs for small and midsized biotech clients have stabilized and trended somewhat more favorably through the first half, reflecting the solid funding environment and favorable sentiment around interest rates. Biotech Companies are our largest client base at approximately 40% of total revenue and more than half of DSA revenue and DSA proposals and net bookings have improved to this client base this year.

Speaker 2

We experienced an improvement in biotech booking activity in the Q2 as the higher proposal levels that we commented on last quarter have begun to translate into new business wins. While we are cautiously optimistic that these trends will lead to a future demand recovery in our biotech client base, they are also not sufficient to support the DSA revenue improvement in the second half of the year that we previously anticipated. And therefore, we do not expect revenue to biotech clients to improve from first half levels. We are laser focused on initiatives to generate more revenue, contain costs and protect shareholder value. As I discussed earlier this year, we have already begun to enhance our commercial efforts.

Speaker 2

We are focused on optimizing our sales force to accelerate revenue growth by adjusting go to market strategies and being a flexible partner for our clients, focusing on selling across the entire portfolio and leveraging technology to enhance sales insights and identify selling opportunities earlier. Our digital strategy is also helping us to better connect with our clients, including through our Apollo cloud based platform to provide real time access to scientific data and self-service tools for clients. To drive additional savings and preserve the bottom line, we will continue to aggressively manage our cost structure to ensure that capacity and headcount are aligned with the current softer demand environment. We have already consolidated several smaller sites and reduced staffing levels. These recent actions and additional actions that will be implemented by the end of the third quarter are expected to generate over $150,000,000 of annualized cost savings, which will be fully realized in 2025.

Speaker 2

We are also finalizing a multiyear strategy, focusing on further optimizing our global footprint, driving greater operating efficiency and leveraging our digital platform and global business services to further streamline processes. We expect to implement the initial phases of this plan before the end of this year and we'll provide a more comprehensive update in November, including the incremental savings that these initiatives will deliver. As referenced in this morning's earnings release, we will also reinstate a stock repurchase program and our Board recently approved a new stock repurchase authorization totaling $1,000,000,000 We intend to reinstate stock repurchase activity before the end of the Q3. Flavio will provide more details on this topic as well as an update on our capital priorities. I'd now like to provide you with additional details on our 2nd quarter segment performance, beginning with the DSA segment's results.

Speaker 2

DSA revenue in the Q2 was $627,400,000 a decrease of 5% on an organic basis, driven by lower revenue in both the Discovery Services and Safety Assessment businesses. In the Safety Assessment business, lower study volume was partially offset by a small benefit from price increases. The overall business trends were relatively consistent with those that we have discussed in recent quarters with the exception of diverging demand trends between our global biopharmaceutical client base and small and mid tier biotechs. As mentioned earlier, we are beginning to see improvements in proposals and booking activity for biotech clients, but is meaningfully slowing for global biopharma clients. The combined effect has resulted in a net book to bill ratio that was similar to the last 5 quarters, but below 1 times in the second quarter.

Speaker 2

Gross bookings also remained above 1 times in the second quarter and the cancellation rate was consistent with 1st quarter levels, which was below its peak, but still not back to targeted levels. As a result of these trends, the DSA backlog decreased on a sequential basis to $2,160,000,000 at the end of the second quarter from $2,350,000,000 at the end of the first quarter. Since we do not expect these trends to improve during the second half of the year as previously anticipated and because we will likely be impacted by incremental spending pressures from our global biopharmaceutical client base, we have reduced our DSA revenue outlook to a high single digit organic decline for the full year. In the near term, we will ensure that our capacity, both space and staffing, are aligned with this lower expected level of demand. Looking beyond that, we will continue to speak with our clients and closely monitor for indications that clients are beginning to return their focus to their IND enabling programs versus their recent focus on post IND studies and for demand trends to stabilize or begin to improve across both the global and mid tier client bases.

Speaker 2

The DSA operating margin was 27.1% in the 2nd quarter, a 50 basis point decrease from the Q2 of 2023. The year over year decline reflected the impact of lower sales volume and moderated pricing, particularly in the Discovery Services business. The operating margin improved from the 1st quarter level, which was commensurate with sales volume, lower bonus accruals and additional cost savings generated by our restructuring efforts. RMS revenue was $206,400,000 a decrease of 3.9% on an organic basis over the Q2 of 2023. The RMS revenue decline was primarily driven by lower NHP revenue.

Speaker 2

As we mentioned last quarter, we expected the timing of NHP shipments to be a meaningful headwind to the 2nd quarter RMS growth rate. Excluding the NHP impact, RMS revenue was essentially flat year over year as higher sales of small research models were offset by slightly lower revenue for research model services. For the full year, we believe the market environment will remain stable overall. So we are reaffirming our RMS organic revenue growth outlook of flat to low single digit growth. Revenue for small models continue to increase in all geographies, particularly in China and Europe.

Speaker 2

The resilience of the research models business reflects the fact that small models are essential low cost tools for research, which also enhances our ability to continue to realize price increases globally. Our China business has been resilient despite the macroeconomic pressures in the country as the growth rate for small research models has strengthened, driven primarily by share gains associated with our geographic expansions within China. Research model services experienced a slight revenue decline in the 2nd quarter in both GEMS and Insourcing Solutions. These trends largely reflect the overall biopharma demand environment. However, the benefits generated by clients that utilize our GEMS and IO io solutions can help them overcome their budgetary pressures by driving efficiency.

Speaker 2

Cradles business model, while not unaffected by the demand environment, continues to resonate with clients who are looking for cost effective solutions for their vivarium space requirements. There are pockets of softer demand, particularly in South San Francisco that have led to the consolidation of our cradle capacity there. However, other biohubs continue to perform well. In the Q2, the RMS operating margin decreased by 330 basis points to 23.1%. The decline was primarily a result of the lower NHP revenue, The timing of NHP shipments from both Novoprim and in China can lead to quarterly revenue fluctuations.

Speaker 2

And since the sales of these large models are quite profitable, the timing of shipments can have a meaningful impact on the RMS margins on a quarterly basis. However, our view for the year hasn't changed and both the RMS and Manufacturing segments are expected to deliver operating margin expansion in 2024. Revenue for the Manufacturing Solutions segment was $192,300,000 an increase of 3.7% on an organic basis compared to the Q2 of last year. Each of the segments businesses contributed to the revenue growth. As anticipated, the manufacturing growth rate was lower than the first quarter level because of a more challenging prior year comparison for the CDMO business.

Speaker 2

You may recall that anniversaried the recovery of the CDMO business in the Q2 of last year. We expect the CDMO growth rate to reaccelerate in the second half of the year based on the current pipeline of new projects, particularly for cell therapy. As a result, we expect manufacturing organic revenue growth will be in the mid to high single digit range, a slight increase from our prior outlook. The competitive landscape is also undergoing a transition in certain manufacturing market sectors due to M and A or proposed geopolitical regulation, both of which should offer new opportunities to demonstrate the synergies of our comprehensive testing portfolio and win new business. The CDMO business continues to perform well and client interest remains strong.

Speaker 2

A third client who utilizes our viral vector center of excellence in Maryland received commercial approval last month and we are also regularly adding new projects across the various phases of clinical development. Booking activity continues to improve and the CDMO business remains on track to deliver solid double digit growth this year. Revenue in our manufacturing quality control testing business, biologics testing and microbial solutions also continued to grow, rebounding from the more challenging market environment last year. Biologics Testing's performance was driven by its core testing activities, including cell banking and viral clearance. For Microbial Solutions, the primary driver of revenue growth was demand for our EndoSafe testing cartridges.

Speaker 2

Clients have resumed their purchases of reagents and consumables as destocking activity has subsided. The Manufacturing segment's 2nd quarter operating margin was 26.6 percent, demonstrating continued improvement with increases of 370 basis points year over year to 130 basis points sequentially. The improvement is largely a result of leverage from higher sales volume across each of the segment's businesses. We expect this trend will continue as the segment rebounds from 2023 and also due to the ongoing increase in the scale of our CDMO business. To conclude, it is clear that our clients are in the midst of reassessing their budgets, reprioritizing their pipelines and managing their cost structures.

Speaker 2

However, our clients will continue to seek life saving treatments for rare diseases and other unmet medical needs. In order to do so, they will by necessity reinvigorate investment in their early stage R and D programs over time. To emerge as an even stronger partner for our clients, we are working to actively manage our costs, initiate new and innovative ways to transform our business, protect shareholder value and enhance our clients' commercial experience to gain additional share. To conclude, I'd like to thank our employees for their exceptional work and commitment and our clients and shareholders for their continued support. Now Flavio will provide additional details on our Q2 financial performance and 2024 guidance.

Speaker 3

Thank you, Jim, and good morning. Before I begin, may I remind you that I'll be speaking primarily to non GAAP results, which exclude amortization and other acquisition related adjustments, costs related primarily to restructuring actions, gains or losses from certain venture capital and other strategic investments and certain other items. Many of my comments will also refer to organic revenue growth, which excludes the impact of acquisitions, divestitures and foreign currency translation. Q2 2024 organic revenue decreased at a 3.2% rate, in line with our outlook for the quarter of a low to mid single digit decline. However, we delivered non GAAP earnings per share of $2.80 which exceeded our prior outlook of mid single digit sequential earnings growth by approximately 0 point outperformance was driven by lower performance based compensation expense.

Speaker 3

Continued growth in operating margin expansion in the Manufacturing segment also contributed. The lower performance based compensation expense was primarily related to adjustments to our bonus accruals in light of the reduced outlook for the year. As Jim discussed in detail, we have significantly lower our guidance for the full year and now expect a revenue decline of 2.5% to 4.5% on a reported basis and 3% to 5% on an organic basis, driven primarily by a softer demand outlook in the second half of the year than previously anticipated for both small and mid sized biotechnology and global pharmaceutical clients. We expect DSA revenue to decline by approximately 10% organically in the second half compared to 6.9% year over year decline in the first half. DSA pricing is expected to turn slightly negative by the end of the year, but the largest driver of this change will be the softer demand.

Speaker 3

We will not have time to offset all of the revenue shortfall with additional cost savings at this point in the year. Therefore, non GAAP earnings per share guidance is now in a range of $9.90 to $10.20 However, we are implementing additional restructuring initiatives to deliver further cost savings to partially offset the lower revenue and help preserve the bottom line, which will have a more meaningful impact in 2025 beyond. As Jim referenced, we are implementing additional initiatives to drive incremental cost savings to ensure that our cost structure aligns with the current demand environment. Restructuring initiatives are expected to generate over $150,000,000 in annualized cost savings, representing nearly 5% of our operating costs, which is an increase from our prior target of approximately $70,000,000 This updated target includes actions that were initiated last year through those already planned for the Q3 of this year. We expect approximately $100,000,000 of the savings to be realized in 2024.

Speaker 3

We're also finalizing a multi year strategy to optimize our global footprint and drive greater operating efficiency, which we believe will further our ability to protect operating margins and manage the business through this challenging environment. Furthermore, our Board recently approved a new stock repurchase authorization of $1,000,000,000 which will add another option to allow us to strategically manage our capital allocation. We intend to commence stock repurchases under the new authorization before the end of the quarter. Our initial goal will be to offset annual share count dilution from equity awards, but we will regularly reevaluate the best uses of our capital. As M and A activity has slowed, leverage has remained low at just above two times and the capital intensity of our business has moderated in the current demand environment.

Speaker 3

These dynamics have enabled us to reassess our capital priorities. We will also continue to repay debt and evaluate strategic acquisitions to enhance our service offerings. As we believe a balanced approach to capital deployment will help maintain an optimal capital structure and maximize shareholder value. I'll now provide details on our segment outlook and some non operating items. By segment, we now expect DSA revenue to decline at a high single digit rate on an organic basis, largely due to the softer demand environment than previously anticipated.

Speaker 3

The outlooks for the RMS and Manufacturing segments are essentially unchanged with RMS expected to report flat to low single digit organic revenue growth and the manufacturing segment expected to generate mid to high single digit organic revenue growth, a slight increase from the outlook in May. From an operating margin perspective, we expect that this year's consolidated operating margin be slightly below last year's level as the lower performance based bonus expense and additional cost savings will nearly offset the revenue shortfall at the margin level in 2024. On a segment basis, pressure in the DSA segment will offset expected margin expansion in both Manufacturing and RMS segments. Unallocated corporate costs totaled $50,500,000 or 4.9 percent of revenue in the 2nd quarter, compared to 6.1% of revenue last year. This improvement was driven primarily by lower performance based compensation accruals.

Speaker 3

For the full year, we expect unallocated corporate costs will be in the mid-five percent range as a percent of revenue. The 2nd quarter tax rate was 21.1%, a decrease of 2 20 basis points year over year. The decrease was primarily due to a favorable geographic earnings mix and higher R and D tax credits. As a result of this favorability, we now expect our tax rate will be approximately 22% for the full year. In the Q2, net interest expense was $29,800,000 which represented both a sequential and year over year decline.

Speaker 3

For the full year, we also expect total net interest expense will be lower than our prior outlook in the range of $118,000,000 to $122,000,000 These reductions are primarily the result of shifting debt to lower interest rate geographies and continued debt repayment. As a reminder, over 80 percent of our $2,400,000,000 debt at the end of the second quarter was at a fixed rate, including $500,000,000 that is fixed until November via an interest rate swap. In addition to lowering our interest expense, continued debt repayment resulted in growth and net leverage ratios of 2.2 times at the end of the second quarter. Free cash flow remained strong with $154,100,000 generated in the 2nd quarter compared to $80,700,000 last year. This improvement was driven by lower CapEx and working capital management.

Speaker 3

Capital expenditures were $39,500,000 in the 2nd quarter compared to $67,400,000 last year, which reflected the ongoing moderation of our spend in the current demand environment and a disciplined focus on our capital investments. For the year, CapEx is expected to decline to approximately $250,000,000 and our free cash flow will be in the range of $380,000,000 to $400,000,000 A summary of our 2024 financial guidance can be found on Slide 36. Looking ahead to the Q3, we expect both reported and organic revenue will decline at a mid single digit rate year over year. Non GAAP earnings per share is expected to decline in the low double digits year over year, as the impact of lower DSA demand will only be partially offset by the benefit of restructuring initiatives. The year over year revenue growth rates in the RMS and Manufacturing segments are expected to rebound from the difficult comparisons in the Q2, which were affected by the timing of NHP shipments in the RMS segment and the strong prior year comparison in the Manufacturing segment.

Speaker 3

In conclusion, our critical focus at this time is continuing to execute our strategy to right size the business and to turn around the financial performance. We believe that accomplishing these actions will position the company to gain market share and emerge from this period of softer demand as a leaner, more efficient scientific partner for our clients.

Speaker 4

Our

Operator

Thank you, Mr. Spencer. We'll go first this morning to Matt Sykes of Goldman Sachs.

Speaker 5

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe just on a higher level, just thinking about your commentary about Global Biopharma. It seems that demand really took a bit of a hit post the in Q2 and post that. And as you think about that client base and you think about sort of the cost cuts have been going on, they've been going on for some time now.

Speaker 5

What kind of rationale can you give for the increased deceleration of that demand? And just given the size and scope of these organizations, do you think it's going to take a lot longer for that to come back just given that it's going to be difficult for them to pivot so quickly?

Speaker 2

Yes. It's certainly difficult for us to call the timing. This is a pretty unexpected and rapid deterioration of the large pharma companies business. The good news is we have a disproportionately large share of big pharmaceutical companies who work, particularly in the safety assessment business. So that's great on the one hand.

Speaker 2

On the other hand, of course, as they begin to ratchet down their cost structures, that causes them to reduce their overall demand. The pharma companies have go through multiple processes every few years. They're trying to lean out their infrastructures. They do sometimes inadequate job, sometimes they don't. I think the IRA legislation coupled with the impending patent cliff has made it essential maybe with the exception of the 2 prominent companies that have GLP-one drugs.

Speaker 2

So rapid deceleration and cutbacks, disproportionate impact on us, reprioritization of pipelines, some of the companies seem to be through it, Some are probably in the midst of it, may take longer for others. It's tough to get a very good line of sight. We have very high level contacts in all of the drug companies. We're dealing sometimes with the Head of R and D and sort of minimally with the number 2 or 3 person in R and D. And it's clear that so many of these decisions have been made and are still being made sort of at the C suite level or the board level.

Speaker 2

And there are profound cuts at big pharma, which some of the people that we're working with don't necessarily have a line of sight. Or certainly not an early line of sight, so they could warn us and work with us. So we're their partners. We respect and appreciate the opportunity to be so. It doesn't mean that we have early indications of what these folks would do.

Speaker 2

So it's a little bit impossible to call, but what we've said in our prepared remarks and I'll just repeat is, we've seen a slower recovery in biotech, although it's been recovering. And we've seen this very soft demand and cutbacks in pharma. It feels like that's likely to persist into 2025. There's sort of no logical reason to believe that that somehow gets curtailed subject to my comments that it's very, very, very difficult for us to call pharma in the aggregate, but it's clear that their emphasis is on the clinic to get drugs into the clinic, to pay for their clinical trials and obviously to get drugs into the market. And it would seem,

Speaker 3

I don't

Speaker 2

know, seem logical that they would continue that for some period of time.

Speaker 5

Got it. And then just on DSA and given and noting the comments you've made on the commercial restructuring and shifting go to market, is there a market share issue going on here or would you still truck this up to overall macro pressures?

Speaker 2

Yes. We think that we're obviously biased, but we think we have a fabulous portfolio that's quite unique. We have a much larger geographic footprint, particularly in safety and discovery. We have exquisite and deep science. And we have had to, in appropriate cases, be aggressive with our prices.

Speaker 2

I think we'll through the back half of this year, we'll have to do more of that. So we certainly don't think that we're losing share. As we continue to refine our sales organization, its structure, its use of IT, its use of Apollo, which is one of our early digitization platforms to allow the clients to get data faster and easier, some pricing and some aggressive timelines and also utilizing the whole portfolio, which I do think we've talked about a lot, which and can do better. In other words, our greatest competitive advantage is that we can work with the clients across this very large non clinical portfolio, which virtually none of our competitors can. So, we think this is a market shift.

Speaker 2

It's very sudden with pharma, kind of gradual with biotech, although getting better. And we certainly don't want to do anything to impair the quality of our science, but we're as we said earlier, we're going to work hard to lean out our infrastructure both in terms of staff and facilities and certainly G and A, so that we can respond to whatever the market demand is going forward in an effort to do the best job we can to have the most positive operating margins possible in the midst of a slowdown in demand.

Speaker 6

Thank you very much. Sure.

Operator

We'll go next now to Eric Coldwell at Baird.

Speaker 7

Thank you very much. I was hoping to get a quantification of the impact of the bonus accruals. I know you said it was the majority or a big chunk of the earnings upside versus implied guidance. But could you quantify that amount and then tell us how much might be left in the second half to help protect earnings in the second half? Or did you take care of all of this with the second quarter?

Speaker 3

Good morning, Eric. It's Flavia. I'll take that one. It was approximately $20,000,000 in the Q2, excuse me, or about $0.30 And the second quarter was a true up for the first half of the year.

Speaker 7

2Q was a true up for the first half. So what happens in the second half?

Speaker 3

You can expect also additional favorability that would come through the second half as we updated guidance for the full year. So we will probably have additional favorability following through.

Speaker 7

And was this how much of this was in DSA as opposed to perhaps research models? I think you kept guidance there basically. I'm assuming this is pretty much all DSA. Is that fair or also at the corporate level?

Speaker 3

You're correct. It's mostly DSA and at the corporate level. The other two segments, as you pointed out, are performing,

Speaker 7

Okay. And I know first half was, I think you said minus 7. I'm toggling a lot of numbers here, but second half minus 10% organic in DSA. So would we be assuming a maybe a ballpark 50% more accrual reductions in the second half than you did in for the first half here in the second quarter? Is it $30,000,000 in the second half?

Speaker 3

Yes. We're not going to get to that level of specificity. I think as I said, there will be additional favorability in the second half just because the true up that we did so far was only for the first half.

Speaker 7

Okay. And then the minus 10% organic in 2H, I think you've kind of talked around this with the last question, but do you think that is a proxy for the overall discovery and safety market both in house and outsourced? You think you're doing a little better or a little worse than the overall market here in the second half. What's your read on that? And what I'm ultimately trying to get to is, I know RMS historically was much steadier, sturdier during soft patches here in toxicology and discovery.

Speaker 7

You historically have outperformed in RMS. But you have to think that this kind of a reduction in overall demand has to have some knock on effects to models and it sounds like you're already seeing some knock on impact in services. So I'm just trying to get a better sense of what the read is on research models and services growth going into 2025, this safety and tox demand is down in the zip code of 10%.

Speaker 2

And we feel like we're holding our own, certainly from a competitive point of view, I would say, across the entire portfolio, certainly in RMS from a product and services point of view. And like for a relatively long time, we've had modest volume declines with meaningful pricing declines across the world. So that will persist. China is quite strong, notwithstanding some of the political issues there. Europe is quite strong.

Speaker 2

And services have been strong now for, I don't know how long, Eric, maybe a decade. The Genas business is a little softer than we would like just because of the slowdown in both client bases, pharma and biotech. And but we think that's a critical element in doing basic research. And our Cradle initiative is definitely in times of economic stress, which I think a lot of our clients are in, that's a really good solution for them. So we have a little bit of facility overlap, maybe a little bit too much capacity in certain locales, opportunities to have more capacity in other locales.

Speaker 2

So that business should hold up well, manufacturing business definitely should hold up well. Definitely, the principal amount of pressure is in DSA, but if you just look at the SA portion of that, a lot of drugs were parked or have been parked or will be parked by our clients before INDs were filed. So they have a drug that they like, they have a certain amount of cash to spend and they prioritize. They will get back to those next. And so we're seeing a lot of emphasis on post IND work that will shift to classic IND work.

Speaker 2

And then at some point when they feel that the confers are stable, we'll get back to more significant spending in core discovery. But of course, as we all know, there is no future, there is no preclinical, there is no clinical without discovery. So that business should improve as well. Time frame, obviously, is a little bit difficult to call. And we think that will be the last thing that recovers.

Speaker 5

Okay. I'm going

Speaker 7

to let others jump in. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Sure.

Operator

We'll go next now to Elizabeth Anderson with Evercore ISI.

Speaker 8

Hi guys. Thanks so much for the question. If we think about how you're flowing this through particularly in DSA and sort of the mid single digit organic revenue decline in the Q3. What have you seen in sort of the July timeframe? Is that sort of stable

Speaker 3

to how you saw

Speaker 8

little bit how the quarter progressed? Thank you.

Speaker 2

I think I'll call on that is that the biotech companies continue to improve slowly, more slowly than we had anticipated or that we liked. But just in terms of proposal volume and bookings definitely better. We spent a fair amount of time over the last few months really studying the trend because I just want to remind everybody on this call that several things. Number 1, as I just said earlier, we have the preponderance of work, particularly safety work of big pharma. Number 2, big pharma was fabulously strong for us last year, unusually strong because so much of our growth has been driven by biotechs.

Speaker 2

We saw very strong pharma growth last year and solid pharma growth for the first half of this year. And then we see this sort of rapid decline. And so it's taken us a while to study it, to talk to clients to really understand what was behind it. We're certainly seeing it persist into July. As I said a few moments ago, while this is absolutely, if you look at the big pharma companies, an industry phenomenon of cutting back costs and infrastructure and of course pipeline, they're in different phases of it, although it does seem that most of them are doing it in the same time.

Speaker 2

At some point, they'll find C level there and they'll put the spending into those drugs, which are post IND and in the clinic. And we hope that as the future progresses that they will find more of our IND work. The IND work is obviously extremely important and as a percentage of the cost of developing a drug quite trivial. So we do think that they'll have the money to do that at some point and that's important for the future. Calling that with any specificity at the moment is just a bit murky given the suddenness and the unexpected nature and the meaningful nature of this pullback.

Speaker 8

Got it. And Flavia, maybe one clarification question just for you. I know you talked about potentially doing some share repurchase agreement. Is there any share repo built into the new guidance range or we should consider that to be separate?

Speaker 3

I would consider that to be separate at this point, Elizabeth. As I said in the prepared remarks, we'll be looking to start executing on it in Q3, but the impact is going to be de minimis in this year still. Got it.

Speaker 8

Thank you.

Speaker 2

So it's not in the numbers?

Speaker 3

Correct.

Operator

Thank you. We'll go next now to Dave Windley at Jefferies.

Speaker 9

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Jim, I'm wondering in the restructuring actions that you're taking, sounds like you're ramping those up. I'm wondering how much optionality are you thinking about relative to range of outcomes? And I guess I'm thinking range of outcomes on a couple of vectors.

Speaker 9

1, you're talking about large pharma and it's rapid decline in a short period of time and hard to see how that plays out from this distance into late this year and next year? And then while small biotech funding has improved year over year, it kind of peaked at the beginning of the year and has been fading through the year in a way that given economy, politics, etcetera, may not continue to improve. And if that were to be soft and kind of truncate the recovery of biotech, how might you be able to react to that as well?

Speaker 2

Let me take a shot at that and then Slavi can jump in as well. As you said, biotech funding has been strong. It was particularly strong in the Q1, Q2 was okay. July wasn't great. So I don't think any of us know, Dave, but you may be right that's cooling off a bit.

Speaker 2

Having said that, we've had a proliferation of proposals and some improvement in bookings as well. So much of it is psychology though. So I think about client base is nervous about the consistency of the availability of cash. Obviously, they're going to continue to be conservative. And I think pharma has a lot of work to do in terms of trying to get their infrastructure where they want it to be given the impending patent flip.

Speaker 2

So look, all we can say and you've known us a long time, this isn't always, always for us. And I think we do this well. We have to get our capacity and by that I mean human capacity and physical capacity in line with our expectations for growth and demand. We always have to call it, I don't know, 12 months to 24 months in advance. So our CapEx investments in growth in a bunch of areas obviously will slow down dramatically has slowed down dramatically and will continue to.

Speaker 2

Half of our costs at least half of our cost is staff. So we've already made some cutbacks and we'll look to do more starting at the end of this year through next year. And we've had some small consolidations and we'll look at perhaps larger ones to see whether those are appropriate. We've done a really good job over the last decade of having a capacity really well utilized across all of our businesses. And indeed, as you know, been able to add space without impairing our operating margins.

Speaker 2

So we I think are in the midst of and we'll continue to scale back both of them commensurate with what the demand is. 25s, a little bit tough to call, but as I said a few moments ago, it's hard to believe that the pharma pullbacks won't continue and persist through some portion of next year. If you're right that we're beginning to see a cooling off of biotech, which we try to be careful with calling trends, Dave, because it was actually pretty good first half of the year. So I don't know what the election will do. I don't know what the awards will do.

Speaker 2

I don't know what any of those things will do. But assuming that it's stable and doesn't get worse, I do think that biotech will work and volume could continue to improve for us just because there's still hundreds of new companies minted every year that don't have any internal capacity and we work with a lot of the VCs and a lot of those portfolio companies. So we need to watch it very carefully. Obviously, we need to call it today. We've called a lot of the savings, the $150,000,000 $100,000,000 of which will hit in this year.

Speaker 2

We've already called that and implemented a bunch of it and we'll continue to and then we will for sure do more next year.

Speaker 3

And Jim, I don't have anything else to add. I think you covered it comprehensively.

Speaker 9

Great. So then my follow-up around pricing. I believe your commentary is talking about modest positive price impact in 2Q, but expect that to flip negatively. I know Eric kind of got at this, but I'm wondering we've certainly heard and you and I talked about some fairly aggressive price discounting by your peers. And I'm wondering, that down versus maybe some of your softness in that down versus maybe some of your softness in bookings is just refusing to chase that down?

Speaker 9

And maybe you could help us to understand the balance there and how you think that plays out and to what extent you've included price pressure in your margin assumptions for DSA in the back half of the year? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Bob, you want to take that one?

Speaker 3

Yes. I'll take especially the latter part of the question. So Dave, the pricing the dynamics of pricing that we've experienced so far through the first half as well as what we anticipate the trends to be in the second half. And as I said, exiting the year with a slight price decline in DSA have been considered in the margin. I'll add some comments on the pricing dynamics and welcome additional color by Jim.

Speaker 3

But dynamics and welcome additional color by Jim. But as we said it in the first earnings call, we are being selective and where it makes sense, we are providing some discounts depending on the nature of work, depending on the start of the work. There's pockets of the work that we do where not a lot of competitors have those capabilities. And in those spaces, we don't feel like we need to provide additional price incentives. There are other pockets that we are being selective and are ensuring that as appropriate we do not lose certain volume in certain business.

Speaker 3

So it's I think from a macro trend with the last couple of years, particularly in 2021 2020 pricing was extremely positive, higher than historical levels, and it started to modulate last year. Coming into this year, as we said, it was still slightly up in Q2, but we are seeing a shift in trend and plan to exit the year with slight price decline in DSA. Jim, I don't know if you want to add anything else?

Speaker 2

There's no question, Dave, that our competitors principally use price as a lever. And so we don't like to chase it. We try not to. As we said, sort of in the first half of the year, we reduced price pretty sparingly to certainly preserve share and to gain share. I just think it feels like it's going to be more pronounced in the back half of the year given the sort of pretty sudden pullback by big pharma and maybe some concern by biotech clients about access to capital.

Speaker 2

So price, which for years became less of an issue until maybe for the last year or so, it's become more of an issue. As Flavia said, it should become more pronounced in the back half of the year. We're anticipating that. That's embedded in our guidance.

Speaker 9

Great. Appreciate the answers. Thank you.

Speaker 4

Sure.

Speaker 6

We'll go

Operator

next now to Patrick Donnelly of Citi.

Speaker 6

Hey guys. Thank you for taking the questions. Jim, I guess maybe one for you. Just as you think about some of these headwinds, it sounds like you're suggesting a few of them will linger into 2025. I know you kind of said pharma pullbacks, it would be hard to believe that those don't linger into 2025.

Speaker 6

So I guess when you kind of think high level, which of these headwinds persists for several quarters and where you have visibility into things maybe improving, I guess, just when you look at the backlog cancellation rates. What are the areas of real concern as we head into 2025 that you don't expect to improve at least to start the year? And where are you feeling maybe okay to start next year?

Speaker 2

Again, we're going to continue to have this tale of 2 cities. We definitely dialed into biotech and they have no internal capacity. So if they're in a preclinical phase or moving into it, we have a very high probability of getting meaningful amount of that work. And as we've said to you for some period of time, they historically have been a little less price sensitive than big pharma. I know that's a surprising comment, but it's true.

Speaker 2

So I think we're very much in touch with that marketplace. As I said earlier, it's very much about the psychology of access to capital. So we just have to see how the capital markets unfold. I mean, a little bit rocky right now. This summer is also very difficult time to call it.

Speaker 2

There's maybe a dozen pharma companies left. We're very close to all of them. We have a very high level relationships. I'd say the majority of them don't do the work internally, so they're also quite dependent on us. They just and with a lot of them, we have long term pricing arrangements.

Speaker 2

So that's while there'll be some pressure on price, it's just going to be more about volume as they cut back and try to preserve their cost structure. So as we said, we're going to see that persist. I would imagine biotech becomes more positive faster than big pharma, but I think has some major restructure major structural improvements to make that there's no way they can make them overnight. They're going to look to us to help them make them. So cradles will be important.

Speaker 2

I do think safety will continue to be important. And definitely all of our manufacturing segment will be increasingly more important to them. So for us, it's again, we have a very strong portfolio. We think it's scientifically superior to all of the competitors, both individually and in the aggregate. We just have to lean out the infrastructure dramatically.

Speaker 2

So that we're a little bit not as tied to the timeframe, assuming that it's softer for longer than we think. But we just don't see any reason why this would change course to 2025 given that we're not agustered.

Speaker 6

That's helpful. And then maybe following up on a few of your points there. I mean, in terms of the softness on the pharma side, are you seeing it it sounds like it's more broad based versus concentrated just a few customers. And then also in your conversations with customers, are you seeing it more on where you play in the discovery preclinical? Or in your view, is it this broad based softening kind of across pharma spend?

Speaker 6

Thanks, Jim.

Speaker 2

So it's definitely broad based. We're seeing it with every client. And as I said before, we have very large market shares and huge for us very increasingly larger dollar volumes across all of big pharma. And with the exception of the 2 companies that are making GLP-1s, virtually all of them are going through substantial cutbacks of staff facilities and portfolio at the same time. Having said that, there's no question that it disproportionately adversely impacts, I don't know, some of the tools companies probably, definitely folks that are playing in discovery and safety to the benefit of clinical work.

Speaker 2

So it's all a big push. And by the way, that's where most of the money spent anyway, but it's all a push to get drugs into the clinic and to try to get as many drugs into the market as possible. The stat so far for new drugs that have been approved is meaningfully behind the prior year. So I think that's also another problem with them. So they see a patent class.

Speaker 2

They're sort of working really hard to get more drugs into the clinic and into the market. That's not easy to do. They've got the IRA legislation to make that a bit more complex. A lot of competition around similar targets, similar types of molecules and they definitely just have too much to bite off right now. So again, it's difficult to know, I won't say even predict, to know how long there'll be a disproportionate focus on the clinic.

Speaker 2

But we know it can't be forever or there is no pharmaceutical industry. We know that they have to use hopefully drugs that successfully get to market to fund more work on the IND phase and then ultimately more discovery to start. So we've seen this before. I typically personally don't think there are cycles in this business, but in times of economic stress, sort of I don't think the situation says bad, but we saw it in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2011, 2012. You have a similar period where our client base pretty much on a broad gauge basis is watching and spending carefully and all we can do.

Speaker 2

Look, we're merely reflections. We are merely a reflection of the aggregate amount of work that big pharma and biotech does. Obviously, that's what we do, right? We don't have any of our own molecules. And while we have an increasing amount of services in and around the clinic, so that's good.

Speaker 2

Our manufacturing business should continue to do well as we said in our guidance because that's in and around the clinic. The preponderance of our work is in discovery and preclinical, which is less emphasized right now certainly by the big drug companies.

Operator

Thank you. We go next now to Tejas Savant at Morgan Stanley.

Speaker 10

Hey, guys. Good morning. Jim, sorry to take on that same sort of theme. There's a couple of, I guess, remarks you made that I just want to unpack a little bit, right? I mean, generally in the past when we've had patent cliff concerns, pharma companies have almost wanted to double down on R and D so that those pipelines or the revenue hole gets filled.

Speaker 10

It seems to be sort of different this time. So any sort of color on that? And then on the IRA, what has changed in the last couple of months here? Pharma companies, would they actually sort of like optimistic of reversing this entirely in court? Is it a view on election outcomes making them nervous?

Speaker 10

Because most larger drug companies who went through that drug negotiation process seem to have come out of it feeling reasonably okay with the fallout from the outcome. So maybe you can just elaborate on those two aspects and then I have a follow-up.

Speaker 2

I mean, this is unusual activity for Afarman clients who obviously we've been servicing forever and that was our principal source of revenue and is obviously a meaningful source of revenue right now. I think your comments on IRA are accurate except we're surprised that we're hearing more about it lately. So I don't know what sort of restarted that, but almost all of the clients have mentioned that. And if you're mentioning the patent looks even more. So the notion that they would double down on R and D to try to offset that, which actually makes at least on the R and early D part makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2

Strategically and structurally and organizationally, we just don't see them doing it right now. It just as you know, it takes longer to get drugs into the clinic. It takes longer for them to get to market and it costs a lot more. So they just have to work on a smaller number of drugs to offset the impending impact from so many of them so many of the patents coming off. So it feels like unusual activity.

Speaker 2

It also feels unusually profound and sudden. And as we said, we used the word unexpected because we're really close to these folks and we deal with them every day and we're their service provider and in many ways an extension of their own internal facilities and yet, it's not like they said to us a year ago. I just want to tell you we're going to be reemphasize we're going to emphasize clinical work to the detriment of preclinical. So you need to prepare for that. We'll be doing that less work with you.

Speaker 2

So we didn't get that sort of warning or dialogue. I think we're increasingly closer to our clients. We feel that we're sitting on the same side of the table with them. I think a lot of these decisions have been taken relatively recently and probably more to come than haven't been taken yet.

Speaker 10

Got it. Helpful. And then one on sort of the potential for benefit from the BioSecure Act. I think you alluded to it in the context of the CDMO business. But as you think about sort of potential sort of share gains even within discovery services or biologics testing solutions, any color on just dimensioning the potential upside there?

Speaker 10

And then a quick cleanup on net interest expense for Flavia. So just given that your debt is essentially 80% fixed, you won't benefit from the interest rate cuts, but the interest income might actually go down as well, right? So how are you thinking about that dynamic into the Q4 and sort of potentially into 2025? Thank you.

Speaker 2

I think it's hard to believe that the BioSecure Act won't have a positive benefit to the demand curve for us across lots of what we do, right? Biologics, CDMO for sure, some safety, some discovery. I mean, it's pretty profound and there's a lot of Chinese competitors in that space who compete with us principally on price, but have very good scale and clients have been quite happy with them. And while it's quite clear to us that that should have a positive benefit, as we said, I think, on our last call and some of the interim conversations we've had at the investor conferences, there's been a very small amount of both conversation and interest and a tiny amount of work that has come with this. So we don't we want to be careful not to overstate the potential, although we think there is a potential over time.

Speaker 2

So we just have to watch and see how it rolls out, see what the ultimate language is, see what the severity is and see whether clients follow. We did say, I think it was on our last call that we had meetings with a couple of very big venture capital firms with whom we work, who said they had instructed their portfolio companies not to do work in China. We thought there was an unusually strong inter sort of interference with what these portfolio companies do. They didn't say we would prefer you don't use China. They said we don't want you to.

Speaker 2

So that gave us an indication that that might be something that expands. These are VCs that are creating new companies from scratch and the fact that they don't want even want to start with China, quite interesting. So it feels like it should have a greater head of steam, doesn't seem to have much right now. A lot of talk about it. So obviously, it's not built into anything that we're saying for this year and we'll see whether there's any changes post election on that.

Speaker 2

So I'll let Flavia take the interest expense question.

Speaker 3

Sure. And Tahaj, given that the any change in interest rates by the Fed will likely be at the end of tail end of the year, the timing of these reductions will not really have any meaningful impact on our outlook. Not to mention also 80% of our debt is fixed until November when we have the swap on the $500,000,000 expire. I know you talked also about could that put pressure on your interest income, but we try to keep very little cash, obviously, given that our objective is to pay down debt. So that would be de minimis as well.

Speaker 3

And in terms of outlook for next year, anything that the Fed does in terms of bringing interest rates down will obviously be positive for us because we will have a little bit less that fixed given the swap will expire. And so the amount of floating of our debt will increase and if interest rates come down that would actually be positive for us.

Speaker 10

Very helpful. Thanks guys. Appreciate it.

Operator

Thank you. We go next now to Casey Woodring at JPMorgan.

Speaker 6

Great. Thanks for taking my questions. I guess first quick one. What's your assumption on NHP pricing in the context of the comments you made today on DSA pricing pressure in the back half of the year? And I just have one quick follow-up.

Speaker 3

I can take that one, Casey. So and I'll separate it a little bit, because I'm assuming that your question is more focused on NHP pricing in the DSA business, but I'll also provide some commentary on NHP pricing when we sell it to third parties, which is reflected in the RMS business. So for DSA, NHP pricing was still slightly positive in the second quarter, as we, I think, indicated. And it's off from the peak levels of last year, but still positive. It will probably follow the same pattern as overall pricing for the DSA business.

Speaker 3

So probably modulate to slightly decline in the tail end of this year. Shifting now to the NHP pricing within RMS, obviously, we have two parts of that business, I think, as we have commented since we acquired Novopriv. We have the NHP sales in China for China and then we have now, NHP sales through the Novaprim acquisition. So in China, prices have come down, and they have been reflected in our results so far this year, and we'll continue to expect them to be at the levels that we're experiencing them today. And then in the case of Novoprim, prices are stable.

Speaker 3

These agreements are long term relationships, and we haven't experienced price pressure there this year and do not expect it to happen in the second half of the year.

Speaker 6

Got it. That's helpful. And then you mentioned cancellations are still not back to target levels and net book to bill was below 1 again this quarter. Just curious how much of that cancellation number in the quarter was from large pharma versus biotech? The impression in the past had been a lot of the cancellations have been from biotechs that couldn't pay for the work that they had booked too far in advance.

Speaker 6

But now with the large pharma restructuring you called out here, wondering if that's really driving the heightened cancellations here and what the expectation for cancellations is moving through the rest of the year? Thank you.

Speaker 3

No problem. I'll take that one as well, Jim. And you're correct, Casey, the cancellations for sort of biotech small and mid tier companies actually was a slight sequential improvement from Q1, so less cancellations. And Global has actually picked up between Q1 and Q2. So sequentially, it was a deterioration, more cancellations for Global in Q2 and an improvement for mid tiers, as you had

Operator

guessed. Thank you. We go next now to Luke Sergott at Barclays.

Speaker 11

Great. Thanks for squeezing me in. So I just want to talk about the I know that you guys are taking out costs and aligning the costs with the demand. But as that demand starts coming back in DSA, how quickly can you spin up those resources again? And just trying to think about the timing, is it like a quarter ahead given the visibility that you guys have?

Speaker 11

Or is it kind of it will happen it has to happen in real time?

Speaker 2

We have to hire even direct labor, probably a quarter ahead that's a good time frame. It's kind of 3 to 4 months to train people that have no background in this work. So not a long period of time, but people really can't start to contribute the next day. So we try to we try and I think have been successful in staying ahead of that curve, can't take on new work without sufficient staff. So I think it should be relatively straightforward to get those to hire those people or hire them back or hire them for people.

Speaker 2

Obviously, senior scientific people, study directors and things like that is much more complicated. We would want to hold on to those people as we continue to refine our infrastructure. All right. Great.

Speaker 11

And then, this goes on, I guess, tail end of Matt Sykes was asking about the prioritization. I mean, this market's been kind of this part of the business has been soft for a while with pharma continuing to rationalize this their discovery work, and keep those budgets tightly. How long do you think that they can maintain these this tight budgetary environment or continue to cut there without it starting to impact the later phase work?

Speaker 2

It's a good question. So you're going to see pharma continue to do a lot of M and A of small, medium and large biotech companies. I don't think there's going to be much M and A between pharma companies. So that's positive for them. Much of the work that they're doing, particularly in the areas that we work are currently being outsourced.

Speaker 2

As they buy these startup or growth biotech companies, they are obviously going to continue to work, but they would buy those companies. So we should benefit from that as well, particularly if the biotech company is a client of ours or the pharma company was as well. We haven't seen this level of pullback, this severe in a long time, but we saw it years ago and there was another patent cliff. So that's just a fact that they can't deny and they have to fill that hole as quickly as possible. Hence, the emphasis on the clinic, As we said a few times today, it's a bit of an imponderable to try to figure out when they'll reinvigorate pure discovery spending or IND spending.

Speaker 2

But the IND spending would come sooner than discovery and it's all essential in terms of continuing to fuel the strength of their pipeline. So some level they have to do it all. They have to look at their own infrastructure from facilities, they have to look at their own G and A, they have to look at some of them are cutting back therapeutic areas, they have to really refine their infrastructures, which is not something I that pharmaceutical industry has historically done all that well, but they're at the point now where it's really a necessity. So that should when the smoke clears, whenever that is, be a significant benefit to us since we do so much of this work can do so much of this work for them with deeper science, with closer proximity, a lower cost, etcetera, etcetera, like we have been for years. So we have to hang in there, get lean, watch our cost structure and try to be as responsive as possible from a sales point of view, so that we minimally hold on to share and maximally take share of new work.

Speaker 11

Great. Thanks for going overtime.

Operator

Thank you. We go next now to Michael Ryskin at Bank of America.

Speaker 4

Great. Thanks guys. Given the time, I'm only just going to keep it in one question. Here are your comments there and everything that's changing your view on DSA and yet you're maintaining the guide for RMS. I realize different businesses there, slightly different exposures, but I'm a little bit surprised you're not worried about at least some bleed if the pharma pullback is this significant and potentially this protracted that you would see at least some impact in RMS as the year went and possibly next year as well.

Speaker 4

So just curious what gives you confidence in that segment?

Speaker 2

We're probably already seeing a little bit of a bleed through just to use your language in North America, which has been a bit slower and of course that's where all most of biotech resides. Conversely, Europe, which has less biotech and ironically lots of pharma has been solid. China is still growing really nicely. That's a function of capital going into life sciences, just the scale of the country and the scale of our operation because we built some new facilities. So feel pretty good we feel pretty good about our guidance there.

Speaker 2

We've always gotten price in RMS forever. None of our clients produce their own animals and the competition is relatively small. And while the service parts of RMS are a bit slow at the moment, it's still quite substantial. They've got good operating margins and they are part of the solution for the clients watching the cost structure. So we would imagine that that work would stabilize as well.

Speaker 2

So I think as we said, RMS will continue to do its thing. Our guidance is only 0 to low single digits. So we certainly feel quite confident about our ability to deliver that for the 3 or 4 reasons I just gave

Speaker 4

you. Okay. All right. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, we do have time for one more question this morning. We'll take that now from Max Mok of William Blair.

Speaker 12

Hey, good morning. Thanks for squeezing me in here. I'll keep it to one question as well. I just wanted to follow-up on some of the prior questions around market share, given your commentary is a bit out of line with what we heard from one of your competitors last

Speaker 6

week. I was just hoping you could

Speaker 12

get some detail around how your win rate in DSA has trended so far in 2024 and whether you've seen that hold up for new proposals more recently or if there's any sort of drop off to call out here? Thank you.

Speaker 2

Our win rate and safety has been quite high and pretty consistent over a long period of time. So when we go head to head, given our overall portfolio, given the geography, given the depth of our science, we'll almost always win until there's a serious conversation about price with a client that just worried about running out of cash. And then they are more open, I think, to compromise on the quality. I don't think that's a big issue when and often we don't even bid on that work. There's some very small competitors who really compete entirely on price.

Speaker 2

So our market share is still quite substantial. It has been growing. Our win rates have been good. The proposal volume has been quite significant and the bookings have begun to improve as we said in our prepared remarks, just not at the rate that we would need them to improve to really invigorate the back half of the year. So we think that's going to be less positive than we thought and exacerbated by pharma pulling back at the same time.

Speaker 2

But I think we continue to hold our own do really well from a market share point of view with the entire client base, it's certainly particularly biotech.

Speaker 3

And Max, if I can just add, I think you alluded to one of our competitors that reported last week. If I saw it correctly, it's a smaller piece of their business, but the piece that we compete more directly, I think their performance in the quarter was worse than ours. And so I think to Jim's point, we believe this is more of a market dynamic as opposed to a competitive dynamic driving the more negative outlook that we're forecasting.

Speaker 2

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, next question.

Speaker 1

Great. And I apologize if sorry about that. I was going to just say, I apologize if we didn't get to some of the questions. I know it was running long, but I will follow-up. And thank you everyone for joining the conference call this morning.

Speaker 1

We look forward to seeing you at some of the investor conferences in September. And this concludes the call. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, Mr. Spencer. Ladies and gentlemen, again, that does conclude today's Charles River Laboratories Q2 2024 earnings call. Again, thanks for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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Charles River Laboratories International Q2 2024
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