Las Vegas Sands Q4 2024 Earnings Report

Las Vegas Sands EPS Results

• Actual EPS: $0.54
• Consensus EPS: $0.58
• Beat/Miss: Missed by -$0.04
• One Year Ago EPS: N/A

Las Vegas Sands Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: N/A
• Expected Revenue: $2.91 billion
• Beat/Miss: N/A
• YoY Revenue Growth: N/A

Las Vegas Sands Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q4 2024
• Date: 1/29/2025
• Time: Before Market Opens
• Conference Call Date: Wednesday, January 29, 2025
• Conference Call Time: 4:30PM ET

Las Vegas Sands (NYSE:LVS), together with its subsidiaries, develops, owns, and operates integrated resorts in Macao and Singapore. It owns and operates The Venetian Macao Resort Hotel, the Londoner Macao, The Parisian Macao, The Plaza Macao and Four Seasons Hotel Macao, Cotai Strip, and the Sands Macao in Macao, the People's Republic of China; and Marina Bay Sands in Singapore. The company's integrated resorts feature accommodations, gaming, entertainment and retail malls, convention and exhibition facilities, celebrity chef restaurants, and other amenities. Las Vegas Sands Corp. was founded in 1988 and is based in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Las Vegas Sands Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Presentation

[Operator]

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands Fourth Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen only mode. We will open the floor for your questions and comments following the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands.

[Operator]

Sir, the floor is yours.

[Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations at Las Vegas Sands]

Thank you very much. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO Patrick Dumont, our President and COO Doctor. Wilfred Wong, Executive Vice Chairman of Sands China and Grant Chung, CEO and President of Sands China and EVP of Asia Operations. Today's conference call will contain forward looking statements. We'll be making those statements under the Safe Harbor provision of the federal securities laws.

[Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations at Las Vegas Sands]

The Company's actions and goals may differ materially from the sources subject in these forward looking statements. In addition, we will discuss non GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP measure are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call.

[Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations at Las Vegas Sands]

Finally, for the Q and A, we ask those of interest to please post one question and one follow-up, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Thanks, Dan, and thank you for joining us today. We'll begin with Macao. The Macao market continues to grow. Gaining revenue for the market grew 6% in Q4 of 2024 when compared to the Q4 of 2023. Mass gaming revenue grew 5% in the quarter compared to 1 year ago.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

We believe the Chinese economy will grow and Macao market will grow as well. Gross gaining revenue in the Cowal should exceed $30,000,000,000 in 2025 and continue to grow. The scale and quality of the assets we've built are second to none. And our access position enable us to grow faster than the Macao market in every segment. Our business strategy remains clear and constant.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

We are investing in high quality assets that also have scale. We've designed our capital investment programs to ensure that we will be the market leader in the years ahead. Our approach will enable us to grow faster in the long term, grow our share of EBITDA in Macau market and generate industry leading returns for invested capital. While we're still confident in our future success in a competitive market like Macau, our assets give us a strong advantage. The scale and quality of room inventory coupled with our retail guiding entertainment enables us to tailor our offerings to attract the most profitable customer segments.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Turning to our results in Macau, we had a solid EBITDA for the quarter despite having 20% fewer rooms available in Cotai, we will have once the London is completed by the Q2 of 2025. We opened the Londoner Grand Casino in the last week of September and operating 315 Londoner Grand Suites during the quarter. We will introduce more Londoner Suites during the next two quarters. Today, as the Lunar New Year begins, we have approximately 1,000 Londoner Suites and Rooms in service, the full complement of 1500 Suites, 905 rooms will be in service by May of 2025 finally. SEL continues to lead the market in gaming and non gaming revenue and market share EBITDA.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Our objective is to capture high value, high margin tourism. We have unique competitive advantage in terms of the scale, quality and diversity of product offerings. Upon completion of a Londoner in May, our product advantage will be more pronounced than ever. Moving on to Singapore, another strong quarter, dollars 537,000,000 in adjusted property EBITDA. Masking is flat when reached $746,000,000 a quarter, reflecting a 71% growth in the Q4 of 2019 and 28% growth from just 1 quarter of a year ago.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

The results of Green Bay Sands reflect the positive impact on our capital investment program and the growth of high value tourism. The growing appeal of Singapore as a destination is enhanced by the robust entertainment and lifestyle event calendar. As we complete the balance of our investment programs in the first half of twenty twenty five, there will be considerable runway for growth. Thanks for joining the call and through to Patrick before we go to Q and A. Patrick?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Thanks, Rob. There's something I want to mention before we get started in the details of the quarter. The Q4 of tourism to the Macau market was impacted by the celebration and events in December that marked the 25th anniversary of the Special Administrative Regions without reunification with China. Macau EBITDA was $571,000,000 for the quarter. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been higher by $22,000,000 When adjusted for lower than expected hold in the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macau portfolio properties, excluding the Londoner, would have been 35.1 percent or down 2 30 basis points compared to the Q4 of 2023.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Our turnover rents in Macau were $27,000,000 lower in the Q4 of 2024 than the prior year Q4. Our margins at the Londoner were directly impacted by the reduction in elbow room inventory during the quarter. We will have approximately 20% rooms and suites on Cotai by May of this year and approximately 47% more rooms at the Londoner as we complete the Londoner brand renovation. Margin at The Venetian was 36.7%, while margin at The Plaza and Four Seasons was 37.2%. We continue to expect margin improvement as our revenues grow, as we use our scale advantages to better address the unrated play in the market and as we focused on managing our costs, including refining our reinvestment to optimize cash flow.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

As Rob mentioned, we are nearing the completion of our Lundera Grande renovation program. Upon completion, our competitive position will be stronger than ever. We expect meaningful EBITDA growth and margin expansion in the future. Turning to Singapore, MBS's EBITDA came at $537,000,000 Assuming expected hold on our rolling play, our EBITDA would have been approximately $2,000,000 lower. The strong financial results reflect the impact of high quality investment and market leading products and growth in high value tourism.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Had we held as expected in our rolling play segment, MBS's EBITDA margin would have been 47.2%. We will have substantially completed our $1,750,000,000 reimbursement program in MBS by May of this year. We are still in the initial stages of realizing the benefits of these new products. We expect growth in the future as we continue to attract high value tourism to Singapore with our enhanced product offering. Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

We repurchased $450,000,000 of LVS stock during the quarter and paid our recurring quarterly dividend of $0.20 per share. Our annual dividend will increase to $1 per share or $0.25 per quarter for the 2025 calendar year. In addition, we purchased approximately $250,000,000 of Sands China stock during the quarter and in January of 2025, bringing LBS equity interest in Sands China to approximately 72.3%. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's capital return program to increase returns to shareholders in the future. Thanks for joining the call today.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Now let's take questions.

[Operator]

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. And the first question today is coming from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank. Carlo, your line is live.

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

Hey, guys. Thank you. Patrick, obviously, you guys have been active in the Sands China stock. And when you look at kind of the valuation of that stock today, coupled with the announcement of the dividend increase, does is your thinking changed at all around the way you allocate capital, perhaps maybe being more advantageous looking forward with respect to the SEL shares?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Look, I think we really believe in the SEL story. We've been big investors in growth in Macau for years. And if you look at our investment program, it's designed to grow our business and our strategic advantages there. And we've been investing to create growth for 2025 and beyond in every segment. Look, our view is that we want to execute against our massive asset base there.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And I think for us, the way we show that is not only through growth, but also through acquiring more shares. We want to own more of SCL and you'll see us be active in the market over time to do that. We really believe in SCL and we think there's real value in the future and owning the shares there. And so we're going to exercise against that thesis.

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

Very good. Thank you. And then if I could just follow-up as it relates to MBS, there's clearly been a lot of change in the property, all the rumor models, all the things that you've been doing over much of 2024. And in the Q4, clearly across the mass side, whether it's drop revenue on the table side, drop revenue on the slot side, you guys saw a very nice acceleration of year over year growth when looked at relative to the 3Q. How much of that do you think is, I don't know, maybe exogenous or maybe not I want to say one time, but a result of some other things going on in the market versus how much of that is the successes of kind of the capital you put in and the fruits of that?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

One thing I would say, Carlos, it's not a one time event. It's an ongoing event that keeps accelerating. I think you're right. It's a good observation. I look at these numbers, non rolling win and slot win is $3,000,000,000 run rate.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

That's pretty astounding. I think it's a few things that are favorable. One is a very strong market, but also a great asset to come into fruition. So when you invest heavily in something, in fact, go to market and get the right thing in the right place, right time, it all comes together. It's not a one time bidding, nor is it peak.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

The final date the final product will be there this summer. It's an amazing place. I think you've been there recently and it just keeps on going. But you're right, the acceleration year on year is truly exceptional. But I think we're just at the beginning of a huge growth surge in Singapore.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

It's not going to end, we're in the right place, right time with the right product.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Hey, one thing I do want to say is the key thing about Singapore and you've heard Rob and me and the rest of the team talk about this on many quarter calls. The key thing about Singapore is about the quality of tourists. It really is an unbelievable market in terms of the value of the tourists showing up there. And we've been very focused on investment in the highest quality of assets to match that high quality of tourism. I think for us, this quarter validates the investment thesis and the growth that's available to us in this market, because of the strength of what's going on in the catchment area.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And so when you look at Singapore as a market, it's incredibly strong and desirable. There's a growing high net worth population. There's growing high value visitation. There's a lot of business activity there. And there's continued investment in strong tourism infrastructure.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So from that standpoint, it's a very unique market and we really believe it. And we think we have the highest quality cash flow in our industry.

[Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank]

Thank you both very much.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Thanks, Carlo.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Thanks, Carlo.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live.

[Arpine Kocharian, Executive Director at UBS Group]

Hi. Thanks very much for taking my question. This is Arpine for Robin. I know you don't talk about the current quarter, but I was wondering if you could take a few minutes to give us your overall take on the Chinese consumer, what you are seeing in terms of bookings for the upcoming holiday? And more importantly, do you feel there are macro indicators that the base consumer could return to pre COVID levels in Macau this year?

[Arpine Kocharian, Executive Director at UBS Group]

How do you see that recovery? And then I have a quick follow-up.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So I think first off, I think we're still talking about a $30,000,000,000 TGR market. It's the largest Canadian market in the world. It's been growing. It looks like it's going to continue to grow for the foreseeable future. We believe very strongly.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

The strength of this market. We've been investing into it for that reason. I think it's very hard for us to point to a specific indicator of the Chinese consumer that is an indicator for our business since we represent such a small level of penetration into our core market, which is China. And so from our standpoint, we sort of look at the market, would we do better with a stronger Chinese economy? I think that's an easy thing to say yes to.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

But I think overall, we're very happy with the direction of our business, our investment. And hopefully, as things progress over time, we'll be the beneficiary of a stronger Chinese economy and see our investments produce more cash flow. Grant or Wilfred, do you guys have any other comments regarding this question?

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

I think the GGR, and you can see throughout last year in 2024 has been very resilient. And I think if you look at the premium ad side of the business, very strong throughout the year. And you saw October, we had the best month since the pandemic for GGR. Yes, there are other parts of the consumption universe, which are much weaker than what gaming has been. And you see some of that reflected in our retail business, where the retail sales were down against the prior year, whereas for the Macau market, the Qizhou was still up 6% as Rob referenced in his opening remarks.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

One thing I would say is that our actions speak loud and we keep investing and investing and buying into Macao, we believe in Macao, we believe in China and we believe the return of the base mass as well as the continued strength of the premium asphalt will grow. We're big believers. We wouldn't be putting 1,000,000,000 of dollars in the ground we didn't believe. So yes, we do believe it's going to come back. And we don't we can't pinpoint or handicap a date or time.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

But I think as Patrick alluded to, it's still a $30,000,000,000 market in the face of a very difficult economic environment macro. So we believe in it, it's going to come back, we just don't know when. But our actions are going to speak very loudly, 1,000,000,000 of dollars investment and we keep investing in it. So we believe in the turns around the corner and will come.

[Arpine Kocharian, Executive Director at UBS Group]

Thank you all. I just had a quick follow-up. Could you share your latest thoughts on New York license if iGaming could be legalized there 2 years into construction, let's say, as an assumption. Sort of your thoughts on how that changes the return profile of a potential casino in that market?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

You've asked and answered my concerns. First, I believe New York is a very strong market, which is under consideration of this company for a long time. However, the iGaming possibility to me in any market that has land based gambling and has sports betting, iGaming seems inevitable. And so I think you have to agree, I mean, read your comment that sometime during the construction phase, you could be faced with high gaming competitive, which dilutes the value of the product. So that's our conundrum.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

And you said it well, the results coming out of neighboring states of New Jersey or Pennsylvania or as far away as Michigan underscore that concern. So you've asked and answered the question, great market, we like to be there. The caveat is how do you deal with the ongoing threat, which appears to me to be inevitable in a lot of states, especially as it has land based properties coupled with sports betting. I don't know why you wouldn't have iGaming at some time in the future. So that's our concern as we look at that market.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

You're absolutely correct.

[Arpine Kocharian, Executive Director at UBS Group]

Thank you very much.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. Shaun, your line is live.

[Shaun Kelley, Analyst at Bank of America]

Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question.

[Shaun Kelley, Analyst at Bank of America]

Robert, Patrick, I want to

[Shaun Kelley, Analyst at Bank of America]

start with just the Londoner. Obviously, some of the disruption timing probably came in a little bit differently than maybe everybody thought. But could you just walk us through your thoughts about kind of ramp up from here and how we should think about it? It's a pretty big margin drag. I think it's pretty understandable given the impact of hotel rooms on margins.

[Shaun Kelley, Analyst at Bank of America]

But just help us think about, maybe your thought process behind how that property should ramp in the next couple of quarters if you could?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Yes. I think it's really interesting because I have to hand it to the team in Macau. They did a phenomenal job this quarter being disciplined in our reinvestment and actually generating this much EBITDA with that many rooms out. We are an inventory a room inventory driven reinvestment model. So we base our reinvestment on the scale of our ecosystem, the diversity of amenities, the quality of room product, the quality of experiences.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And so when you're down 20% of your inventory, there will be a meaningful impact into your productivity. As we carry the expense base, right? Our 2nd largest expense is payroll and that doesn't change. And so we had less inventory to sell in the quarter. There wasn't disruption.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

There was just less inventory. So credit to the team for creating the quarter that they did in this market given the competitive dynamics. But I think now that we start to get these rooms back across the quarter, these 2,000 rooms, think about it, it's 2 thirds of a Venetian. When you think about the productivity of the Venetian resort, the Venetian Macau and the room count that it has and the number of tables and the scale that it has, imagine if 2 thirds of the rooms were not available. And that's the case with the London.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And so they were able to create this performance without that inventory. The good news is it's coming online. Some of it's online now. The rest of it should be online by May as we mentioned in our opening remarks. And that's positioned us well to get to our ultimate goal, which is to have 2 properties that have an equivalent run rate.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And maybe one day the weather does better than the Venetian because of the key count. But I think the opportunity is there for the productivity to really increase now that the rooms are becoming available and now that we've completed this renovation, which in our mind creates one of the best properties in the history of our business. And we're not just saying that because we did it. We think it's really good. So I think from our standpoint, we have The Venetian, we have The Londoner, we have The Four Seasons, we have The Parisian, we have this high quality portfolio and getting these rooms back online will enhance our competitive positioning, but also allow us to grow cash flow and EBITDA because we're carrying the expense anyway and now we'll have the inventory to sell.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So I think it was pretty meaningful, but I do want to give credit to the team there for the quarter that they put up. Grant, do you have any comments?

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

Yes, Patrick. Like you said, the room inventory was at the low point during the Q4. Like we said last quarter, it reached the lowest point around 8,700 keys in November December. And for the whole quarter, we continue to have the 315 London and Grand Suites. And then shortly after the year end, we got license for further 700 suites and keys.

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

And so for this Lunar New Year, we have at our disposal just over 1,000 keys to use from now on. We expect that the continued ramp up in rooms to continue throughout the Q1 and the 1st part of the second quarter, Yes, culminating the goal is to have the full 2,405 keys fully operational by May Golden Week, and we believe we can achieve that. Construction wise, we're well on track. It's a matter of statutory licensing at this point.

[Shaun Kelley, Analyst at Bank of America]

Thank you, both. And then maybe just as a quick follow-up going back to New York. Rob, we did notice that New York did not include the casino licenses or the downstate casino licenses in the state budget figures. So we were just kind of curious, does this imply as it may, especially given the timing of the fiscal year that the downstate process is slipping further, at least for, I think, the 3rd license that many of us are very focused on here for LBS? Thanks.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Hard to say. I could speculate you are, but I don't know if you're right or wrong. I think it wasn't a budget, it wasn't a budget. I don't really know the answer, Sean. To be honest with you, it's hard to determine what I keep hearing it's going to be this June with a determination of a license by year end.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Again, as you're saying, it's hard to know because it's they haven't been clear about this for a long time. I have to wait and see what you

[Shaun Kelley, Analyst at Bank of America]

Thank you very much.

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

Sure.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Thanks, Sean.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Brandt Montour from Barclays. Brandt, your line is live.

[Brandt Montour, Analyst at Barclays Capital]

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question, everybody. So, a follow-up on Sean's question on the Londoner. In the Pacifica casino floor, especially which I know you owned and where you sorry, you opened in September, but without a mini hotel rooms above it, I have to imagine it was hard to activate that casino floor in the Q4. Can you give us a sense on how you activate the casino floor and if a 1,000 rooms would be enough natural foot flow to actually create a buzz and get that asset almost sort of all the way up and sort of producing before you can get the last batch or is it specifically correlated with how many rooms are open?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

So, I'm just laughing at the question to me is pretty simply. Where are you in our industry, whether it's Macau or Las Vegas or Idaho, where you have sleeping rooms above you is where you get gambling below you. So, it correlates the more rooms, the more gambling. A thousand keys is still a lot of people. I think, yes, it can create a buzz, but that buzz will obviously increase as you have more keys.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

So 2,000 is better and 2,400 is better than that. Is enough sure it's better than having 300. But again, to your point, it begins with only 300 this quarter and goes to 1,000 during Lunar New Year. And then you get this spring to 2,400, I believe. And then of course, the bathrooms adjacent to it under the same roof and other face along there, Plenty of rooms there more than most hotels have in any place else.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

So I think the results will speak for itself. This has been a long hard process with team over there, but it's probably coming to a head. And we believe and we'll always believe that assets drive results. This asset is extraordinary. And yes, we'll see some buzz in February, March, but you'll see more in May.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

But we're in this for the long haul and London will be a world class asset and take its place alongside some of the less nerdy performers, just like Marina Bay Sands did and Innovation did.

[Brandt Montour, Analyst at Barclays Capital]

Okay. That's super helpful. And then a follow-up question would be on the Thailand opportunity. I know it's really early, but I'm sure you guys have done plenty of work so far on that market. And maybe you could just talk high level about that opportunity versus your large coming second build out investment in Singapore and sort of how you think about those 2 markets vis a vis each other.

[Brandt Montour, Analyst at Barclays Capital]

And if they sort of are totally separate opportunities that wouldn't have to be considered in relation to each other?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So a couple of things here. So I think first off, Thailand is an unbelievable tourism destination. It has very desirable attributes, great culture, great food, just beautiful scenery. It's a great place to visit. And I think it has a great opportunity to add destination resorts and create a very large scale industry there.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

The great news is, there's an enormous tourism base there already. And it's separate and distinct from people who go to Singapore. Is there overlap? Sure. Do people go back and forth between Bangkok and Singapore all the time?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Absolutely. Is there an argument that it actually just strengthens our ecosystem because people have more choice within our environment? There's an argument for that. Although I would say that, I think they're both different offerings. I think if you look at what we have in Singapore, it's specifically tied to the highest level of high value tourism.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

It's rarefied air, when you look who's in that environment and the type of consumption that's there, the type of both business and leisure tourism that takes place. I think in Thailand, it's a completely separate market. I think there will be some overlap inevitably because people are going to want to see it on both sides. But as a practical matter, given that the population base, the visitation they have today and where people are coming from in terms of inbound tourism, it's a separate and distinct opportunity. And that's how we see it.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And we're excited about it. But there's a lot that has to be done and a lot that has to be learned before something that we can evaluate. That being said, it would be great for our industry and it'd be fair great for LVS if it's possible.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Can I say a few other things about your comment about the mix of those 2 markets? Think about this for a second. There's about 4,000,000,000 Asian people, which I think is about 3,000,000,000,000 and 4 in the entire United States. As I look out the window here in Las Vegas, there's more casinos in Las Vegas than there is in all of Asia. Okay?

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

So my point is, there's an awful lot of people in Asia, high propensity gamble. I wouldn't worry too much about Singapore doing very, very well. There's just not enough capacity. Shell Dallas used to say, like to build a strip in every Asian country if possible. The point being, we'll do very well in Singapore for years years to come.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

We'll make all kinds of money there. But Thailand is an extraordinary market and it will do very well. Again, Las Vegas must have, I don't know, 200 casinos. There's not 200 casinos in all of Asia. So the concern about it categorizing, I think, is not necessarily even valid to think about.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

4,000,000,000 people in Asia looking for a place to go. Thailand will do very, very well, but so will Singapore and SilverTown.

[Brandt Montour, Analyst at Barclays Capital]

Excellent. Thanks, Patrick. Thanks, Rob.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Dan Politzer from Wells Fargo. Dan, your line is live.

[Dan Politzer, Analyst at Wells Fargo]

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. First, I wanted to touch on Venetian. Last couple of quarters, it looks like mass volumes have slowed a bit there. Can you maybe talk about a little bit what's going on with that property relative to some of your other properties in the market?

[Dan Politzer, Analyst at Wells Fargo]

And also, I think the arena recently opened there. So any kind of incremental incremental details on how that's been trending?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

One thing I do want to mention, I think The Venetian really is for us the benchmark in Macau. And we're very focused on growing revenues in Venetian and maintaining margin there and generating a lot of cash flow. And we think it has the capacity to do it. In the first half of the quarter, things were going great and things were accelerating. In the second half of the quarter, there was some disruption in visitation because of what I mentioned earlier on in the prepared remarks, which is the 25th anniversary of the Andover.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And so there's a there were a lot of things going on in this quarter. And one of the things that went on is that, base mass was impacted most meaningfully by that event and by that 30 day period. And so I would not necessarily look at this quarter as representative of the base mass run rate associated with the Venetian going forward. Brandon, I don't know if you have anything else to add.

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

Yes, that's right. And I think with the premium mass, I think the business continues to be very strong there. Also, I think you have to consider that most of the largest in Venetian together with the Four Seasons, it plays as a complex for that segment. So you can see how strong the Four Seasons Plaza was in the non rolling segment this quarter, up 26% against prior year. So I think you should look at it in a composite as patrons move around between the two properties.

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

But the base mass, as Patrick said, was affected during the quarter. We had a very strong first half of the quarter and then it softened thereafter. As it regards to the Venetian arena, we launched a fully upgraded arena in late November. We've had a few events, some of them more like a warm up event during Q4. We had concerts and then we also hosted the NBA Legends game that accompanied our our announcement of the strategic collaboration with the NBA over the next few years.

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

So the facility gives us, I think, very strong scope to program content for our calendar, entertainment, sporting events, MICE groups. And at the same time, we'll continue to use London Arena. And really, this is another example of the scale advantage and the product diversity that we have. We've learned how to program the London Arena successfully. We'll be hosting some major concerts in the Venetian Arena as well as the NBA Games in October in 2025.

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

So we'll have the full flexibility and benefit of having these 2 great venues for different types of programming and events, and we believe that it's going to support the growth of the business in 2025 and beyond.

[Dan Politzer, Analyst at Wells Fargo]

Got it. That's helpful color. And then just a follow-up. I think for the Londoner all in, you'll be have invested around $8,000,000,000 How do you think about, I guess, the return on this? Is this consistent with some of your other properties in the mid- to high teens?

[Dan Politzer, Analyst at Wells Fargo]

And if not, why would that be? And then how do you think about the timing in terms of the ramp? And do you need to see that base mass business come back in the market given that you've certainly invested in making this property a more premium mass centric?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Yes. So I think the key thing here to note is, depends on how long your IRR measurement period is. And so I think for us when we first opened the property, it had a ramp up period where if you sort of looked at it at peak, it was at I think $1,100,000,000 run rate of EBITDA. And so if you sort of drew your trend line off that, it would be an unbelievable investment. Then events overtook that measurement and we realized we need to reinvest or reposition, which we did.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So if you think of this as a 30 year asset, which we do, and you look at the potential cash flow generation out of this asset, given its positioning, its theming, its amenities and its structure, which is not replicable anymore in Macau, we feel like this is a very high return potential asset. And that's why we put the capital into it. If you look at its structure, you look at the room count, you look at the organization of the casino floors, of the retail and of the amenities around it to support the activity of our patrons, there's nothing like it, right? And so we feel like this asset will provide very higher returns over time. Otherwise, we would have done it.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

If the model didn't work, it wouldn't have happened. But I think it depends on how you view the market and how long you view the asset to be running in this way. But we've done the major structural lift. So we think we're in good shape to carry this asset forward for years to come.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Dan, one additional comment to Patrick's and I think you made a comment that's being a mass centric, I would disagree. Its market segment is open to everything. What makes these buildings so powerful like the Londoner, Innovation, successful buildings in the world get everybody. They get the base mass, the grind, the pre mass, because they have all kinds of capacity. They've got sleeping rooms, they've got retail, they've got entertainment, and they've got just capacity.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

What makes it special versus some of our competitors, they can't they don't have that scale, capacity, lodging and gaming. This longer thing better have it on all segments to get to the numbers I want to see you get to, which is far beyond $1,000,000,000 And I think the answer is, I think Patrick said it well, it's a time issue in how you view the market. Having not fixed the LUNDAR, it wouldn't be competitive to the old San Francisco to essential, couldn't withstand the pressure of this market. LUNDAR will now do well, do very well. They'll do well with not just premium mask, the face mask, drawing everything.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

It's going to dominate just like other Easton. Easton didn't get there, simply with high rollers. You get to it, all you walk in there, there's all this poker, there's base masks, there's all kinds of lodging, all kinds of reach and all kinds of food and beverage. That's how we model the lung that's why it's $1,000,000,000 plus building when it gets poured out operation.

[Dan Politzer, Analyst at Wells Fargo]

Got it. Thanks so much. That's really helpful.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Sure.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Thanks, Dan.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Chad Beynon from Macquarie. Chad, your line

[Operator]

is live.

[Chad Beynon, Analyst at Macquarie Group]

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Rob, you mentioned in your prepared remarks that there was a decline in the turnover rent. It looks like, I believe pretty much all of that may have been at the Four Seasons. The other properties in Macau and in Singapore had some nice increases year over year.

[Chad Beynon, Analyst at Macquarie Group]

So, firstly, just kind of wanted to ask about that if that was something related to maybe some VIP business that was there last year, anything structural on the property? And then secondly, I know the market and everyone are expecting visitation and GGR to be up next year. Is there anything in the model that would put a lid in terms of what's happening with retail given where the base is right now? Thanks.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Yes. I'm going to defer to Grant Shum, who should answer this question. Grant?

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

Yes. Thanks, Rob. Yes, the turnover rent change is largely related to the Four Seasons Mall. Last year or I should say 2023, that was a record year. That was an all time high for the Four Seasons Mall in terms of retail sales coming out of that post COVID spend.

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

So when you look at year on year comparison, 2024 against 2023, the turnover rent is heavily impacted by the sales at the Four Seasons being down year on year. And there's nothing structural. There's nothing one off about the 23%. I think it's just the way the sales evolved straight after the pandemic and of course the softening macro environment thereafter. I think we're strategically very well positioned for the retail sector over the next 18, 24 months.

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

We are opening a number of very significant flagship stores across a number of the major brands. You've seen the first of these opening in November in Four Seasons with the Audemars Piguet AP House, the largest in Asia. That will continue in 2025 with some other major flagships and also significant store openings. So we feel that between now and end of 2025, you're going to see a further strengthening in the tenant mix and the product offering in Namur. And hopefully that positions us very well for the eventual recovery in the macro and the retail sales that will come with it.

[Chad Beynon, Analyst at Macquarie Group]

Great. Thank you very much. And then back to the U. S, I know we talked about a few, potential, legislation positives or opportunities. Anything changed in terms of your view on Texas, the timing of that and kind of where things stand down there?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So as we said before, we think Texas has a great potential as a market for our business. But there's really nothing to report at this point. The session just began and we'll see how it goes.

[Chad Beynon, Analyst at Macquarie Group]

Great. Thank you very much.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Thanks, Chad.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from Joe Stauff from SIG. Joe, your line is live.

[Joe Stauff, Analyst at SIG]

Thank you. Good afternoon, Rob, Patrick, Grant. I had two questions on MBS, please. One, where are you seeing the, say, the biggest early returns from your investments thus far? I'm wondering if it's more heavily weighted towards a particular metric, longer stays, new customers, higher spend.

[Joe Stauff, Analyst at SIG]

And then my second question really is on a longer term basis for MBS, for the 3 towers, as we think about the ramp in EBITDA, Patrick, you had mentioned Singapore certainly is rarefied air. But could you comment on longer term what these new investments and where you think the biggest opportunity is for you to ramp EBITDA?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

So really appreciate the question. I think for us, Renewbase Sands customer base is very diverse, diverse markets around Singapore, who all want to do business in Singapore or all want to go there for leisure purposes. And the spending habits are very powerful. And I think the biggest growth that you'll see as you sort of look across our business, it's in every facet. Credit to the team there and they've done phenomenal work this quarter and utilizing the assets that were put into production and they still don't have everything in inventory.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And so I think the key thing here is if you sort of look at our gaming growth, it's been fantastic, particularly on the non rolling side, absolutely phenomenal. And in both segments in terms of slots and tables, but also on a rolling basis, it's been very strong. I think the other thing is if you look at the non gaming side, it's been extraordinary. If you look at the across the board, things have performed incredibly well. We just had a question about retail in Macau.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

But if you look at the retail in Singapore, it's performed incredibly well and shown to be very resilient. So I think the offering there is quite strong, addresses the market properly. And I can't really point to one thing to say that it's the way to measure the investment. I think it's a very holistic approach. Rob earlier mentioned that we address all segments.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think in Singapore, the market is filled with high value tourists and we really address with a variety of amenities, something that's very unique and that experience in our ecosystem is not replicable. And

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

so

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think we get the benefit of that and I think you see the results in our EBITDA this quarter. And I think there's more to come. And I think when we get the rest of Tower 3 online and we get some of the other investments fully in, the Ruger room is completely done. I think you'll see the power of this building as people start to figure it out.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

I think that building, have you been there? Have you seen

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

the building?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Joe is there with us.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Okay. If you've been in the building, you see it. There's just nothing like it. The epicenter of affluence in terms of it's got the room product, it's got the sweet spot, the food and beverage retail, it's got it all. And I think for people who can afford the experience and want to gamble, which is a lot of people in Asia, it's just a very unique product.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

It's going to capture all those people. It's also got a wonderful place to be, which is Singapore itself. So I think we're in the right place, right time to keep growing that. And where we measure obviously is the profitability and the profitability of soaring. But I think you're just the best is yet to come.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

I mean, Singapore is just the beginning of its run. As Patrick alluded to, the quality of asset and the finishes, etcetera, are extraordinary. And it's hard to replicate. So I think we have every confidence we're just at the beginning of this thing, not the end. It's not aberrational, it's just the way it's going to be.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Singapore is an exceptional asset, a very strong market, lots of countries driving it. And also it's the beneficiary of lots of great publicity and awareness of how people call MBS, they see it on the newspapers, magazines, the Internet, it's very powerful, a real brand to us now. So I think you're at the beginning of an exceptional growth story in Singapore. As the asset matures this summer, again, I think the future is very, very strong.

[Joe Stauff, Analyst at SIG]

Thanks very much.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you. The next question will be from George Choi from Citigroup. George, your line is live. Thanks for taking my questions.

[George Choi, Analyst at Citigroup]

First of all, you know the introduction of some new baccarat side beds since late September in Macau. And would you please comment on how popular they have become and its potential impact on haul rates longer term? And I have a follow-up to this. Thank you.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

George, I got to tell you, they're very popular with me. I think they're great.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Unfortunately, they're the best that much. George, I think you know the story and appreciate the question. It's a very, very powerful possibility. It's not a reality yet. But the side bets, as you know, are akin to parlayed bets or wages on sports betting.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

It's more of a prop bet, more of a long shot type bet, which people gravitate to. Some people like it. You know the house advantage is much higher than the flat bets, the usual 5 player type pair. So for the industry, where the forefront is, We want to offer those bets and hopefully the customers will come towards them. It's got great potential.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

It's early days yet. But as you know, since bock run is our primary business, it can be very, very powerful for us in the years to come. If the customers decide to take higher long run type bets because they do benefit the house. No surprise. There's an article recently, I think it was a journal about sports betting and parlay betting, it's akin to that.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

So we're hopeful that more people will partake in that. It helps drive the defer. And it'd be very advantageous for those companies who are baccarat centered like Las Vegas Sands.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

And just to sort

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

of add

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

some thought. Yes, I think the key thing here is it's early days yet. And so I think our goal is to continue to evaluate how the market is adopting and actually choosing to utilize those bets. But we'll see.

[George Choi, Analyst at Citigroup]

Thank you very much. And obviously, very encouraging to learn that you have 700 more suites at Londoner Grand open after the year end. I'm just wondering if you have opened any new premium mass capacity at the Londoner Grand?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

On the gaming floor?

[George Choi, Analyst at Citigroup]

Yes.

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

Yes.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Jordan?

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

Yes,

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

we did. We just opened yes, just around the time of the Lunar New Year, we opened a new premium mass salon on level 1 of Londoner Brand. So we're obviously ramping up on the gaming side in sync with the room inventory.

[George Choi, Analyst at Citigroup]

Thanks for your comments.

[Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer at Las Vegas Sands]

Thanks, George, as always. Appreciate it.

[Operator]

Thank you. And the next question will be from Steve Wieczynski from Stifel. Steve, your line is live.

[Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Yes. Hey, guys. Good afternoon. So Patrick or Rob or maybe even Grant, if we go back to the lung curve, obviously, you have that coming back online over the next couple of months. And obviously, your competitors in the market know that property is coming back online as well.

[Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

So the question is, have you seen any changes in the promotional activity from your competitors in the market in anticipation of that property coming back online?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think, first off, I think we mentioned this in the prior quarter's call. Macau has always been incredibly competitive and very promotional. And I think to the team's credit there, they've been very disciplined. When we closed the P6 Casino, there was some promo in there to move people around. And we talked about that.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

But I think it's a practical matter. We're very focused on leveraging the assets that we invest in for the long term to drive customer visitation and patron experience. And I think for us, the goal is to be disciplined in the face of this market, which by the way is ever evolving. If you go back more than a decade, there were different segments that are in favor, different ways that people thought about those segments and invested against the opportunity. And I think that's what we have today.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

I think we have a very competitive market as we've always had. I think people are investing against the segments the way they think that will create the most profit for them. And I think for us, we're doing the same thing. But our model has been pretty consistent, which is about investment in product, investment in a great team, great service levels and focusing on the way that we can drive margin and cash flow. Grant, do you have any other comments you'd like to add?

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

I think you said it well. I think we remain focused on EBITDA generation and the profit share. And if you look at the Q3 results, when all the results came out from all of the operators, I think those who gained revenue share didn't necessarily see that translate into profit share gain. And I think we continue with our strategy. I think it remains competitive regardless of whether we're bringing Londoner Brand Suites online or not.

[Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China]

I don't think that changes. I think that's a constant. And so our constant is that, yes, our strategy remains leveraging our core products, leveraging the quality and scale of what we have and the upcoming online of the rooms in London and Grand is the perfect opportunity for us to really drive home that strategy. And we really look forward to having the full inventory in place. And then from May Golden Week into the summer and for the rest of the year, we hope to see that really deliver for us.

[Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Okay. Thanks for that guys. And then real quick, Patrick, you obviously brought up the President's visit in December. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do this or not. But just wondering if you guys have some sort of estimate on what the potential impact from his visit was on your properties during that time frame?

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Unfortunately, I really can't give you an estimate. All I can tell you is that there was a noticeable change. But the important thing is that we're looking forward to a grade 25. We're excited about the opportunity. We feel really good about where our assets are positioned.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

We have a great team. We have great service levels and we're excited about what we can do now that we're finally getting all of our assets back in inventory. We're looking forward to it.

[Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp]

Okay. Thanks guys. Appreciate it.

[Patrick Dumont, President and COO at Las Vegas Sands]

Take care. Thank you.

[Operator]

Thank you. There are no other questions at this time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day.

[Operator]

Thank you for your participation.

Participants

Executives

• Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations
• Robert Goldstein, Chairman, CEO & Treasurer
• Patrick Dumont, President and COO

Analysts

• Carlo Santarelli, Analyst at Deutsche Bank
• Arpine Kocharian, Executive Director at UBS Group
• Grant Chum, President & CEO at Sands China
• Shaun Kelley, Analyst at Bank of America
• Brandt Montour, Analyst at Barclays Capital
• Dan Politzer, Analyst at Wells Fargo
• Chad Beynon, Analyst at Macquarie Group
• Joe Stauff, Analyst at SIG
• George Choi, Analyst at Citigroup
• Steven Wieczynski, Managing Director at Stifel Financial Corp