Schneider National Q4 2024 Earnings Report

Schneider National EPS Results

• Actual EPS: $0.20
• Consensus EPS: $0.20
• Beat/Miss: Met Expectations
• One Year Ago EPS: $0.16

Schneider National Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: N/A
• Expected Revenue: $1.36 billion
• Beat/Miss: N/A
• YoY Revenue Growth: N/A

Schneider National Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q4 2024
• Date: 1/30/2025
• Time: Before Market Opens
• Conference Call Date: Thursday, January 30, 2025
• Conference Call Time: 10:30AM ET

Schneider National (NYSE:SNDR), together with its subsidiaries, provides surface transportation and logistics solutions in the United States, Canada, and Mexico. It operates through three segments: Truckload, Intermodal, and Logistics. The Truckload segment offers over the road freight transportation services primarily through dry van, bulk, temperature-controlled, and flat-bed trailers across either network or dedicated configurations. The Intermodal segment provides door-to-door container on flat car services through a combination of rail and dray transportation using company-owned containers, chassis, and trucks. The Logistics segment offers asset-light freight brokerage, supply chain, warehousing, and import/export services to manage and move its customers' freight. The company leases equipment, such as trucks to owner-operators; and provides insurance for the company drivers and owner-operators. Schneider National, Inc. was founded in 1935 and is headquartered in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Schneider National Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Presentation

[Operator]

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Schneider's 4th Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session. Thank you. I'd now like to turn the call over to Steve Bindus, Director of Investor Relations.

[Operator]

You may begin.

[Bindas Steve, Director of Finance - Investor Relations at Schneider National]

Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. Joining me on the call today are Mark Wark, President and Chief Executive Officer Daryl Campbell, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer and Jim Filter, Executive Vice President and Blue President of Transportation and Logistics. Earlier today, the company issued an earnings press release. This release and an investor presentation are available on the Investor Relations section of our website at schneider.com. Our call will include remarks about future expectations, forecasts, plans and prospects for Schneider.

[Bindas Steve, Director of Finance - Investor Relations at Schneider National]

These constitute forward looking statements for the purposes of the safe harbor provisions under applicable federal securities laws. Forward looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from current expectations. The company urges investors to review the risks and uncertainties discussed in our SEC filings, including, but not limited to, our most recent annual report on Form 10 ks and those risks identified in today's earnings release. All forward looking statements are made as of the date of this call and Schneider disclaims any duty to update such statements except as required by law. In addition, pursuant to Regulation G, a reconciliation of any non GAAP financial measures referenced during today's call can be found in our earnings release and investor presentation, which includes reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP measures.

[Bindas Steve, Director of Finance - Investor Relations at Schneider National]

Now, I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Mark Rourke.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Thank you, Steve, and hello, everyone. Thanks for joining the Schneider call today. For our prepared remarks, I will provide an overview of our framework to drive structural improvements in our business and enable us to seize the opportunities ahead. Then I will share insights on our recent dedicated acquisition of Cowen Systems, offer my perspectives on the freight market and discuss our results and positioning across our multimodal platform of truckload, intermodal and logistics. Daryl will then provide a financial overview of our Q4 results and discuss our assumptions for 2025 full year earnings per share and net capital expenditures guidance.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Then we'll take your questions. Let me begin by emphasizing that we remain committed to driving ongoing structural improvements in our business by restoring margins, improving resiliency, enabling growth and enhancing financial returns. To accomplish that, we continue to follow a framework that includes 4 tenants, all equally important. Our first tenant is optimizing capital allocation across our strategic growth priorities, which include dedicated, intermodal and logistics. The second tenet is managing the customer freight allocation process with purpose and discipline.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

By carefully selecting and managing our freight, we can ensure that we are serving our customers effectively and profitably. Next is delivering an effortless customer experience. We aim to make it easy for customers to work with us by providing optionality and value across our multimodal portfolio. The 4th tenant is containing cost across all expense categories. Cost containment is critical to our overall business strategy as it enables us to reinvest in growth initiatives and enhance our competitive position.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Turning to the Q4, programmatic acquisitions complement our organic growth objectives. And on December 2, we were pleased to announce the completion of our acquisition of Cowen Systems. Cowen is our 3rd and largest dedicated acquisition in as many years and aligns with our long term strategic objective of providing customer centric dedicated solutions as the cornerstone of our Truckload segment, while broadening our vertical market reach to provide greater value to our customers and shareholders. With the acquisition of Cowen, 70% of our truckload fleet is now in dedicated contract configurations. This compares to 33% in 2017, our 1st year as a public company.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Cowen fits our acquisitive profile as a successful well run family owned enterprise with a highly compatible culture and a track record of providing excellent customer experience that drives deep loyalty. In keeping with our proven acquisition playbook, Cowen will retain its brand, operating independence and leadership. As primarily a dedicated contract carrier with a portfolio of complementary services including brokerage, port and intermodal drayage and warehousing, Cowen utilizes a 100% lightweight equipment model and serves the attractive end markets of specialty retail, food and beverage, and construction building supplies, all of which take advantage of the increased payload capability. The transaction price was $421,000,000 including $31,000,000 of related real estate. In 2024, its pro form a operating revenues were $629,000,000 primarily composed of Dedicated, which operates approximately 1900 trucks and 7,600 trailers.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Cowen was accretive to earnings per share in December. We expect between $20,000,000 $30,000,000 of annual synergies after year 1. The synergies are largely from

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

the integration of administrative and support functions, including equipment purchasing, maintenance and fuel. We expect to benefit from these synergies as early as the first half of twenty twenty five with the benefits accelerating in the second half of the year. With the Cowen acquisition, we see ample opportunities for growth across multiple verticals and geographies and we will allocate capital to organically grow the business and enhance returns to shareholders. Now let me give you my perspective on the freight market and what we are seeing from our vantage point here at the end of January. The 4th quarter largely played out to our expectations.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Seasonality which began in the 2nd quarter was even more evident in the 4th. Carriers are still not being adequately compensated for the value provided and the cost to deliver resulting in continued attrition of supply. Declining capacity across current demand that more closely aligns to seasonal expectations is bringing the supply and demand condition closer to equilibrium. In the quarter, we experienced solid retail and consumer product driven volumes that were partially offset by extended seasonal auto production shutdowns. While there were pockets of pull forward import volumes to address concerns with tariffs and potential port labor strife, this was not universal across our customer base, so the impact this will have in 2025 is difficult to quantify.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Starting around Thanksgiving, spot price exceeded contract price and accelerated through the end of the year and into 2025. While the trend is encouraging, we are far from satisfied with our results. We continue to take actions to restore our performance within our long term margin targets. These actions include executing the allocation season with purpose and discipline for profitable growth, reducing our cost to serve and growing our variable cost network capacity. We are very early in the freight allocation season, but we are finding that customers are more receptive to rate restoration than they have been the last 2 years.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

In addition to recovering market conditions, the 4th quarter benefited from the cumulative effects of the action we have taken throughout the year to expand margins, which resulted in year over year improvement in earnings across all reportable segments for the first time since the Q2 of 2022.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Our

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

actions also position us for outsized leverage in an improving freight market. Turning to our segment results, and I'll start with Dedicated and our Truckload segment. Our Dedicated business has demonstrated resilient earnings profile over freight cycles and is an important part of our strategy to create enduring shareholder value. As we expected, there was limited organic start up activity in the 4th quarter. We have line of sight to several 100 trucks of new business awards slated for start up in the first half of twenty twenty five.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Our new business pipeline remains strong and we are adding additional commercial resources to advance the opportunities we have in front of us. In addition to overall truck growth, we expect enhanced dedicated revenue per truck per week due to 2 separate influencing factors. The first is that we are tightening our truck to driver ratios in our 3 acquired companies and redeploying the underutilized capital to new startups. 2nd, we had trucks at the ready for a few large startups that were customer delayed from 2024 into 2025, which we can now effectively deploy. Our truck network business continues to be challenged.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

We are on a path to restore profitability of this business through internal cost control and productivity actions, adding variable cost capacity and rate restoration that aligns the value we provide and the cost to deliver our exceptional service. In the quarter, we achieved sequential earnings improvement driven by cost reductions and rate performance that was at expectations as we continue to work to attract more variable cost capacity. This improvement was achieved while overcoming the impact of insurance expense, which I'll talk to you in a moment. Looking forward, as freight conditions recover, our network business, which is more sensitive to market cycles, will benefit from supportive pricing environment and enhanced asset productivity. Enterprise results for the quarter include $7,000,000 of prior year accident reserves, an impact of $0.03 per share, most of which resides in truckload.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

In 2024, Schneider achieved significant reductions in our DOT reportable accidents, attaining an all time low accident frequency. At the same time, the industry has seen a surge in litigious activity, including litigation funding, nuclear verdicts and inflated settlements, which have increased the cost and volatility of claim reserves as well as insurance premiums. Our number one goal is to lower the frequency as this is the first line of defense against rising settlement costs. I am proud of our driver community, our operations and safety teams whose actions continue to reduce frequency of claims, therefore lowering our overall risk profile. In our intermodal segment, we hit the trifecta with year over year growth in orders, revenue per order and improved productivity.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Year over year intermodal orders were up 3%, revenue per order was up 2%, and margin improved 3 80 basis points. Our disciplined and balanced approach during our customer search period drove enhanced operating leverage into our business and it resulted in an exceptional service experience for our customers. Continued intermodal cost reductions, network optimization and improved trade productivity all positively impacted the quarter and our position as we enter 2025. In the quarter, hurricanes created sporadic service interruptions in the East. In the West, the Uni Pacific experienced disruption for a few weeks early in the quarter.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

However, we were pleased with their recovery and ability to surge volumes with improved service consistency. Turning to our Logistics segment, we delivered another profitable quarter. Logistics continues to manage net revenue effectively. While conditions in brokerage market are challenged from an overall available volume and carrier cost perspective, an order volume count contraction of only 5% was mitigated in part to our Schneider Freight Power platform and our people. Our power only offering continues to resonate with customers and our industry leading technology has allowed us to lower our cost to serve.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

In summary, the freight market is continuing its path toward recovery and we are playing the long game. We are committed to driving structural improvements across our enterprise by restoring margins and enhancing financial returns. In 2024, we took a balanced and disciplined approach towards positioning our business for through cycle leverage, growth and resiliency and our actions gained traction as the year progressed. Following our framework and focusing on our strategic priorities enables us to drive improvements in our business and seize the opportunities ahead. Let me now turn it over to Daryl to discuss Q4 financial results and our 2025 guidance.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Thank you, Mark, and good morning, everyone. I'll review our enterprise and segment financial results for the Q4 along with our year to date cash flow trends and capital allocation actions. Additionally, I'll provide insights on our full year 2025 EPS and net CapEx guidance. Summaries of our financial results and guidance can be found on Pages 21 to 26 of our investor presentation available on our Investor Relations website. I want to reiterate our objective of positioning the business for structural resiliency and profitable growth in cycles.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

While we're actively addressing the short term, our focus remains on positioning our multimodal platform and services for enhanced financial returns and long term value creation. Through all cycles, we remain disciplined on commercial actions, cost management and resource optimization across our enterprise and these ongoing actions are positively impacting every segment of our business. In the Q4, revenues excluding fuel surcharge were $1,200,000,000 up slightly year over year. Our 4th quarter adjusted income from operations was $45,000,000 an increase of 40% compared to a year ago. Adjusted diluted earnings per share for the Q4 was $0.20 $0.16 a year ago.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Our Cowen acquisition was immediately accretive to EPS in the quarter. As Mark mentioned, refinement of reserve estimates primarily related to 3 accident claims from prior years resulted in $0.03 per share of expense during the Q4. While our ongoing investments and favorable safety performance continue to favorably impact frequency, we're operating in an inflationary litigation environment. From a segment perspective, truckload revenues excluding fuel surcharge were $560,000,000 in the 4th quarter, 2% above the same period a year ago. This increase was primarily due to dedicated organic new business growth, the acquisition of Cowen and higher network revenue per truck per week, partially offset by lower network volumes.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Truckload operating income was $20,000,000 up 5% year over year due to the same factors that shaped revenues and was partially offset by increased safety reserve estimates. Truckload's operating ratio of 96.5% was essentially flat to the same period a year ago. Intermodal revenues excluding fuel surcharge were $276,000,000 in the Q4, 6% higher than the Q4 of 2023, primarily due to volume growth and higher revenue per order. Intermodal operating income was $17,000,000 an $11,000,000 increase compared to the same period last year due to both volume and revenue per order growth in addition to enhanced operating leverage due to the internal cost reduction actions and improved trade productivity. Intermodal's operating ratio improved to 93.8% compared to 97.6% a year ago.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Logistics revenues excluding fuel surcharge were $324,000,000 in the 4th quarter, down 5% year over year, primarily due to lower brokerage revenue per order and volumes. Despite lower year over year revenues, logistics trend of profitability continued with operating income of $9,000,000 up nearly 40% compared to the Q4 of 2023. This was primarily due to effective net revenue management. Q4 2024 Logistics operating ratio was 97.4% and 80 basis point year over year improvement. Turning to capital allocation.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

We paid $67,000,000 in dividends during 2024, which was 5% above 2023 and we continue to strategically repurchase shares with total activity of $30,000,000 for the year. We recently announced that we'll maintain our quarterly dividend at $0.095 per quarter, which represents a commitment to returning value to our shareholders. We ended 2024 with net CapEx of $380,000,000 which is above our most recent guidance of $330,000,000 This was due to real estate purchase and replacement equipment CapEx, both in connection with our recently acquired common systems business. Net CapEx for 2024 was $194,000,000 below the prior year, primarily due to our efforts to enhance asset productivity as well as focusing on growth CapEx solely in our strategic dedicated and intermodal businesses. These actions translated into a $200,000,000 year over year increase in our free cash flow and more than doubling of our free cash flow conversion.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Along with using our strong balance sheet, we've utilized our free cash flow to further our strategic inorganic growth priorities through the acquisition of Common Systems. In November 2024, we executed a $400,000,000 delayed draw term loan facility and used $300,000,000 of the proceeds to partially fund the acquisition of Coexistence and related real estate assets. Our net debt leverage was 0.7x at the end of the year. While our guidance for 2025 does not contemplate specific inorganic growth, we continue to explore opportunities to further our strategic priorities. Organic growth continues to be our highest capital allocation priority and our guidance assumes continued growth capital investments in dedicated and intermodal tractors.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

We will also continue to manage our fleet age within our targeted ranges and invest in technology to drive business insights and associate productivity. In addition, we anticipate proceeds from equipment sales to be slightly lower than 2024. As a result of these considerations, we expect net CapEx to be in the range of $400,000,000 to $450,000,000 for the full year of 2025. Moving to our earnings guidance. Our adjusted earnings per share guidance for the full year of 2025 is $0.90 to $1.20 This assumes an effective tax rate of 23% to 24%.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Based on what we would consider our normalized Q4 2024 EPS run rate of approximately $0.23 the lower end of our range suggests that similar conditions to those in the Q4 of 2024 would persist throughout 2025. The upper end of our range considers enhanced freight market conditions starting in the Q2 and building throughout the year. This upper range also factors in incremental costs associated with incentive compensation. In 2025, we anticipate returning Truckload Network to profitability in the second half of the year by improving price, growing variable cost capacity and continuing to execute cost and asset efficiency actions. For truckload dedicated, we look forward to top line and earnings growth driven by a strong new business, increasing the number of tractors on existing accounts and the accretive impact of Cowen including Synagis.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

For Intermodal, our expectation is for volume growth, particularly where Schneider is differentiated from competitors and we anticipate increased over the road conversion along with a modest increase in net price from the first half to the second half of the year. In the Logistics segment, we expect to continue capitalizing on digital automation investments and leveraging our leading power only offering to augment our truckload network business. Our guidance also considers minimal net cost inflation year over year and similar equipment gains based on a stable used equipment market. We believe that our actions to arrest inflationary costs and lower cost to serve will benefit our 2025 results along with increased price and volume. As these efforts have taken hold, we remain vigilant in identifying incremental opportunities across the business through 2025.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Let me close by providing an update on our long term strategic targets by segment. For the Truckload segment, our dedicated business delivers resilient results through all cycles. As we continue to grow our dedicated business organically and through strategic acquisitions, combined with the actions we've outlined to restore our truckload network business to profitability, we're maintaining our long term margin target range at 12% to 16%. For the intermodal segment, volumes continue to show strength with total orders for the Q4 of 2024 at the highest level since the Q3 of 2022. Considering our volume outlook, ability to grow around 30% without additional investments in containers and chassis and our differentiated rail partnerships, we're maintaining our long term target of 10% to 14%.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

As it relates to our logistics segment, 2 years ago, we updated our long term target range to 5% to 7% from the previous range of 4% to 6%, primarily due to the rapid growth of our power only offering, which has a higher margin profile than traditional brokerage. While we continue to grow our power only earnings contribution, overall margin weighting has shifted to our traditional brokerage, including the ColorLogistics operations. We consider this weighting as well as the current brokerage market landscape in refining our long term margin targets to 3% to 5%. With that, we'll open the call for your questions.

[Operator]

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer Your first question comes from the line of Daniel Imbro from Stephens. Your line is open.

[Daniel Imbro, Managing Director at Stephens Inc]

Yes. Hey, good morning, everybody. Thanks for taking our questions.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Good morning, Daniel.

[Daniel Imbro, Managing Director at Stephens Inc]

Maybe if I could squeeze 1 in

[Daniel Imbro, Managing Director at Stephens Inc]

here, I guess I'll start on the broader truck backdrop. Revenue per truck per week did increase a bit sequentially. And Mark, I think you mentioned customers are more receptive to rate restoration more so than any time in the last couple of years. I guess with the market tightening, when would you expect organic truck count to begin to grow again on both maybe the network side and the dedicated? If we back out the Cowen growth, it still looks like dedicated trucks maybe stepped down a little bit.

[Daniel Imbro, Managing Director at Stephens Inc]

When would you expect that to begin to grow again? And any help on just thinking about the cadence or magnitude of growth as we move through this year with a market that seems to be getting better? Thanks.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Yes, Daniela, thank you. As we've talked throughout the year, we started to see some positive contract renewals on contract pricing starting as early as the Q2. And we have increased conviction that we're going to be more successful as we head into 2025 as you indicated in your question. Our focus in the network side of the business is to place our growth into variable cost capacities, more owner operators and then augmented through power only. We're happy where we are in the company driver side.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

We've been quite stable there now for several quarters and our growth and we are pursuing that growth in network presently with that variable cost capacity. So we would expect to start to see that in 2025 and particularly as we get into the Q2. As it relates to dedicated, very much feel confident that our new business pipeline and the start up activity that we have already on the docket will start to show increases in truck count. But also very importantly, as we outlined in our prepared comments, Daniel, we expect to see more growth in revenue per truck per week as we can get tighter on capital allocation and taking higher ratios and getting some underutilized equipment redeployed more effectively within Dedicated and particularly coming out of our acquisitive companies. And Cowen is a great opportunity for that because one of our synergies is our maintenance infrastructure that allows them not to have as much safety stock equipment because how quickly we can turn equipment, how we can keep equipment up more effectively.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

So it's going to be a combination next year and dedicated to both growth of units, but also I think accelerated growth of net revenue per truck per week.

[Daniel Imbro, Managing Director at Stephens Inc]

Got it. Appreciate that. Thanks.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Ravi Shanker from Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.

[Ravi Shanker, Managing Director at Morgan Stanley]

Great. Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Just a follow-up on that point. Can you help quantify what you are seeing in those rate renewals right now?

[Ravi Shanker, Managing Director at Morgan Stanley]

Kind of one of your peers spoke about mid single digits with high single digits in some pockets, kind of are you seeing something similar? And also just kind of how do you quantify or how do you qualify some of the strength in the data points you've been seeing in the last few weeks? Do you think it's transitory because of a noisy January or do you think that can be sustained through 1Q? Thank you.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Robbie, as it relates to the renewal discussions, we're very, very early in that process. But as is typical, we through the Q4 and early part of the year, we start to have early discussions, particularly around our large strategic customers around preparing for the forward periods. And so we again don't have any a great deal in the barn yet, but those discussions I think have been very constructive and been been different than what we've experienced the last couple of years. As you look at the spot pricing, which is I think sometimes we get overemphasized as an industry on, but clearly as we mentioned in our prepared comments that we had a step level change there starting in Thanksgiving all the way through really until very recently here in January increased year over year dramatically and we got above contract quite handsomely for that period. So I think all of those things in combination with the rightsizing of capacity puts I think the entire pricing mechanism or the pricing environment in a more constructive state into 2025.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

Yes, Ravi, I'll just this is Jim Filter. I'll add on a little bit here in terms of what we're seeing and why those discussions with customers are a little bit more constructive this year on a baseline where, like Mark said, we were making increases each quarter as we went through last year. But customers understand that we have attacked the inflationary cost and arrested almost all of those. The ones that we haven't been able to arrest are costs like insurance And customers understand the need to be able to assist us to be able to continue to provide great service and then ultimately to start to regrow our fleets. And so they understand what's required there and as we're going through these, they're actually locking in some incumbency with increases and understand there's just really only one direction to go from here.

[Ravi Shanker, Managing Director at Morgan Stanley]

Great. Thank you.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Thank you.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Brian Ossenbeck from JPMorgan. Your line is open.

[Brian Ossenbeck, MD - Senior Analyst, Transportation at JP Morgan]

Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking the question. So I just want to ask a little bit more about capacity and what you're seeing actually leave the market and if you got any view maybe on the brokerage side in terms of what the small fleets are doing. But some comments around that would be helpful. And also just maybe Jim your view on intermodal boxes and how many of them are stacked.

[Brian Ossenbeck, MD - Senior Analyst, Transportation at JP Morgan]

And I'm sure there's been a bit of reconfiguration that needs to be done here for the network into next year. So maybe you can comment on box capacity as well and then what you kind of expect the net impact from what I would assume would be a more normalized imports into the Gulf and East Coast after this big search West. Thank you.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Definitely done on a multitude of questions under a single breath. Thank you, Brian.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

Yes. So Brian, this is Jim. I'll take each one of those here. So in terms of what we're seeing from capacity, especially as we're looking at those small fleets, those individual units, we have seen continued reduction. And as you look across the landscape, there aren't a lot of large carriers that are exiting, but you also don't see anybody expanding their capacity.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

And that's the challenges. Our shippers are looking at that and have some expectations that they're going to see some small amount of growth and capacity is still exiting the marketplace here. In terms of our box capacity, we have about 10% of our boxes that are stacked right now. We have the capacity to move 30% more volume than what we did here in the Q4 or about 30% more. Daryl had mentioned that.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

So we feel like we're in a really great position to be able to grow that business. And we did see growth in a couple of the markets. We saw very nice growth in Mexico. Our Mexico growth was exceeded 30%. We saw very nice growth in the West.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

And that was impressive because as we went through the rails were at really all time levels. And so there was a quick blip in the West with some service. They recovered very quickly. We're impressed by that and able to provide great service all the way through. And as we look at that, the opportunity here is really in the East and we took a little bit of a step back there.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

That's where we're competing most directly with over the road. We'd expect that as that market begins to tighten, we're going to see more opportunities there. And especially with our differentiation, we want to be able to grow where we have that differentiation and continue on our growth path. In terms of imports, I think Mark covered this that this is pretty wide in terms of just the different types of actions that shippers are taking. We have a very diversified portfolio, we feel very good about that position.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

And what we'd say is that the supply chains are really complex. They're difficult to unwind. You don't make dramatic changes there. Any opportunity to see more domestic manufacturing, that's absolutely a great thing for Schneider.

[Brian Ossenbeck, MD - Senior Analyst, Transportation at JP Morgan]

All right. Thanks for all that, Jim. Appreciate it.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

You bet.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Jason Seidl from TD Cowen. Your line is open.

[Jason Seidl, Managing Director at TD Cowen]

Thank you, operator. Good morning, gentlemen. Just two quick ones here, I guess one clarification, one question. On the question side, on the Cowen acquisition, obviously, they're differentiated using a lightweight fleet. Is this something that you could adopt elsewhere?

[Jason Seidl, Managing Director at TD Cowen]

Or is that more geared towards some of the end markets that Cowen serves? Also, they have a distinct use of a bunch of owner operators, which I don't think you guys really utilize much in your legacy Dedicated. And I was wondering if that's something that you thought over the long term that you could turn to where it might fit. And on the clarification side, you guys took down your long term margin guide for logistics. I think you said it was mostly due to Cowen.

[Jason Seidl, Managing Director at TD Cowen]

I'm just making sure that there's no changes in your outlook for sort of the power only margin side. It's just like a shift in different type of businesses that you're bringing in.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Great. Thank you, Jason. Look, maybe just a correction. Cowen's, Fraccon is predominantly and the dedicated almost exclusively company driver. We do have owner operation support port and intermodal dray in a separate part of their logistics business.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

So as it relates to the opportunity that we see in front of us, they do have a terrific lightweight model that resonates with customers who are looking to take advantage of payload. Consistent with our other acquisitions, what we're able to do is really just unlock potential for them in other geographies because they're concentrates predominantly in the Northeast and the Mid Atlantic and access to capital that they could take those great capabilities and apply them in different geographies and against different verticals. And so we're excited about what that lightweight expertise provides and we think we can organically do that across multiple geographies and help them achieve their full potential, which is absolutely our priority one for them. Secondly, as it relates to, I'm going to turn it over to Daryl for his commentary. We're still incredibly bullish on the non asset portion of our portfolio.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

And as mentioned, our Power Only Now who's been through both up cycle and the down cycle, it's been quite resilient, terrific customer acceptance and third party carrier acceptance. So what we're really talking about here, it's such a high return on invested capital model because of the limited capital we put in there. We want to put more growth objectives against that and grow our return on invested capital by growing and not have to have so much margin to do that, more consistent growth is what we're looking for there. I think it's a recognition in the short term, we have some synergy opportunities we could do at Cowen to help improve overall results. So they're going to be a little bit of a drag in the short term.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

But long term, we're still very bullish on the platform and what we can accomplish in concert with our assets.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

This is Daryl. So as it relates to your question on logistics long term margin targets, just as a recap, 2 years ago, we're at 4% to 6% in terms of our range. We're up that range of 5% to 7%, primarily due to the growth in our power only. We're still excited obviously about the power only offering. The results for this year would indicate the strength of that offering.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

But as you said, this is more of a mix consideration. So we have more of our mix that's in traditional brokerage and that was obviously amplified with a common acquisition. So as we think about the weighting that's more skewed towards traditional brokerage that has a lower margin profile, we thought it was just prudent to refine that mix and the margin weight to 3% to 5%.

[Jason Seidl, Managing Director at TD Cowen]

That makes sense. Appreciate the color, gentlemen.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Thank you, Jason.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of David Hicks from Raymond James. Your line is open.

[David Hicks, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Raymond James Financial]

Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. Actually, I want to kind of hit on what you guys are seeing in retail inventories from your customers. We've kind of seen those grow quite a bit above kind of the historical trend line here in recent months. Would just love to hear how kind of they're positioning themselves ahead of kind of any potential tariff for us?

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Yes. I'll let Jim take this just on an overall kind of mix of our exposure here. We're highly diversified within the retail sector for everything from the extreme value retail to home improvement, big box retail. And so we really touch on everything except for department store type retail, Jim. So I don't think we've seen any massive trend up in inventories from our customers' perspective.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

No massive trend up, correct, Mark. What did seek here that there was some customers that were bringing in a it was a relatively small amount of freight in advance of a potential port disruption on the East Coast, just being prepared. That largely has worked itself out, really not much of a disruption. Small amount of pull ahead out of Mexico, but nothing really substantial there. Generally, as we talk to customers, they feel like their inventories are appropriate for the demand that they expect in front of them.

[David Hicks, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Raymond James Financial]

Great. Appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Ken Hoexter from Bank of America. Your line is open.

[Ken Hoexter, Managing Director at Bank of America]

Hey, great. Good morning. Busy earnings morning. So maybe, Daryl, any thoughts on seasonality and margin shifts from Q4 to Q1? Maybe can you provide historical averages for each of the three segments just as we flip in 4Q, 1Q?

[Ken Hoexter, Managing Director at Bank of America]

Just wondering if there's anything you think would stand out here different than normal. And then Mark on intermodal interestingly CP actually talked a lot about you in particular yesterday in terms of Schneider about growing lanes from Mexico to the U. S. Southeast on intermodal. So any thoughts on the cross border opportunity in particular with kind of tariffs tariff potential over the next couple of days, your thoughts on growth and the sustainability of that growth in that lane even without with or without the tariffs?

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Yes. So this is Darryl. So I'll start on the seasonality question. I think probably the most important thing to note is that we did see some return of seasonality in the Q4, which is something that we've all been looking forward to. So that started in the Q2.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

I think we all know what happened in the 3rd, but the persistence in the Q4 was encouraging, particularly in our network businesses where we saw more project seasonal work and also in intermodal where we did see some premium there. So with the return of seasonality, you would expect that from the Q4 going into the Q1, you would see more of that seasonality adjustment or decline, which we would normally see. So when we're talking about our guidance for the full year, we talked about improvement going throughout the year. We did say starting in the Q2 because there's some recognition that with the return of seasonality, the Q1 obviously would be seasonally adjusted as it relates to the 4th.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

Yes. This is Jim. I'll just touch on what we're seeing in Mexico here. Obviously, I already talked about our growth here in the Q4, but we really have seen that continue on here into the Q1. And the growth that we're seeing, it's a lot of conversion and we're taking share in that space As we feel we have a really competitive product there working with the CPKC and now we have this additional service lanes that are connecting the Southeast to Mexico and to the Southwest.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

Both of those are performing very well and we're continuing to grow on both of those. Just as we look at what's being produced in Mexico, I talked earlier about supply chains being complex and difficult to unwind. A lot of these products are really products that we don't necessarily see being produced anywhere else except Mexico. And so we expect to see continued growth there.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

And we're looking forward to the 1st full allocation season to have the new service between the Southeast and Mexico and the Southwest. So we've been priming the pump with most of the discussions through the back half of the year in anticipation of that. And as usual, the execution of our partner down there is just first rate. So I think we have a great service product and we have a great opportunity to convert from over the road to rail and that's what we've been talking to our customers about really the last 4 to 5 months.

[Ken Hoexter, Managing Director at Bank of America]

If I can just clarify one thing with Daryl. Maybe just picking one category, right, truckload. Just because we've had COVID, we've had so many different things. If we look back last 5, 10 years, is it a normal seasonal increase like a 400 basis point OR increase just looking back at your history and avoiding some of those one timers?

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Yes. So it's difficult to give specific quantification, but I would say we're seeing more of a trend towards normal seasonality, but we're not back to kind of pre COVID, I guess, pre COVID normal level. So somewhere in between where we are now and I guess what you would define as normal is probably what we'd see when we compare the Q4 to the 1st.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Yes. We don't all the way back to we don't provide quarterly guidance. But Ken, I think we would sit here suggesting as we hear at the end of January that the truck volumes have been what we would have expected and maybe where we're seeing a little bit of more positive than typical intermodal has been very strong coming out of the Q4 and it's maintained some unseasonal strength, at least in my view, the 1st few weeks of January.

[Ken Hoexter, Managing Director at Bank of America]

Great. Appreciate the thoughts, guys. Thanks.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Chris Wetherbee from Wells Fargo. Your line is open.

[Analyst]

Hey, good morning guys. It's Rob on for Chris. Appreciate you taking our questions. Could you give us a little bit more of a sense of what you have built into the full year guidance from a rate perspective at the low end and at the high end of the range?

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

As we kind of laid out in our early comments that we do believe we're entering a more constructive pricing market and building upon some of the progress, although modest progress that we had in 2024. So and I do believe that's what's necessary to get to the various elements of our range. Price will play an important part. We believe we've done a very good job of arresting the inflationary costs and we don't believe that we'll have a lot of inflation into next year excuse me, into 2025 here. And so what's important from a margin restoration standpoint is the price line.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

And we're going to pursue that consistent with the value that we provide in the marketplace. So I don't have a number I'm going to share with you, but it is the difference between where we find ourselves in the range that we provided.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Yes. But at least as it relates to the low end of our guidance, we tried to give some perspective with reference to the Q4 of 2024. So we adjusted that rate obviously for some of the seasonality or premiums, I should say, that we saw. So if you kind of strip out the premium and look at the 4th quarters on a normalized basis that will give you some indication of the low end, but the high end includes everything that we talked about in terms of restoring margin.

[Analyst]

And then just as we think about over the course of the cycle, you've grown dedicated quite a lot. How should we think about your truckload margin performance looking out given dedicated is now 70% of the mix? Like how much of an improvement do you guys see as rates begin to recover here?

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Yes. We believe we can continue to advance and improve our margins across the board including dedicated. One of the great opportunities we have in an improving freight market is in just about all of our configurations that we do in support of customers that there is a backhaul component that we can have a better choice and better paying freight that fits better. Anything that gives us more options there in an improving marketplace benefits dedicated. So that's a margin enhancer.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

We've also talked about improving our asset productivity and our capital allocation there by improving our ratios between trucks to drivers. And so there's a number of initiatives within there both market driven and self help driven that can drive margin improvement.

[Analyst]

Appreciate the time.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Jon Chappell from Evercore ISI. Your line is open.

[Jonathan Chappell, Senior Managing Director at Evercore ISI]

Thank you. Good morning. Jim, surprised it hasn't come up yet, but your intermodal revenue per load up sequentially, pretty meaningfully seeming to bucking the trend across the industry and that obviously translates into better margin as well. The volume part of it all makes sense, but can you help us kind of explain what's driving the revenue per load and how you kind of think that transpires from here?

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

Yes. Thanks, John. So yes, as we went through the quarter, there was obviously a lot of demand out of our headhaul markets and we remain disciplined. Absolutely, our objective is to grow this business. And I talked about the capacity to be able to grow, but we're not going to grow just to grow.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

And so we anticipate that we're going to continue to see that price improve as the over the road market increases. But really that the price that you saw in the Q4, a good deal of that was due to project work that we were involved in and all the head haul markets.

[Jonathan Chappell, Senior Managing Director at Evercore ISI]

So do we just to clarify, do we think of that as a new starting point off of which to build 25? Or do we think of more of an average of 24, for normalized price growth?

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

I would think of it as yes, thanks, Sean. I would think of it as normal seasonality as what we saw in the Q4 for intermodal.

[Jonathan Chappell, Senior Managing Director at Evercore ISI]

Okay. Thanks, Jim.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Scott Group from Wolfe Research. Your line is open.

[Scott Group, MD & Senior Analyst at Wolfe Research]

Hey, thanks. Good morning, guys. Let me try that a little differently. So as we approach bid season, whatever increases you're trying to get in truckload or you think you'll get in truckload, do you think the intermodal increases, key pace and are similar? Or do you think intermodal lags on price relative to whatever truckload is going to get this year?

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

Yes, Scott. This is Jim. I'll take that. And just looking at historically, intermodal generally tends to trail. And so that's exactly what we've seen so far.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

I'd anticipate that we're not likely to see the same rate of increases for intermodal that we'll see within the truckload market. Truckload is where we need to see the largest increase because that's also where we still have the largest decline in the industry.

[Scott Group, MD & Senior Analyst at Wolfe Research]

Are you saying it like I know I get that it lags by a quarter or 2, but you're saying even on the lag like the increases will be less. Is that what you're trying to say?

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

I'd expect that we'd see bigger increases in the over the road market than intermodal as we go through the course of the year.

[Scott Group, MD & Senior Analyst at Wolfe Research]

Okay. And then if

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

I can just comment on that. In 2024, we mostly in 2024, we had relatively flat pricing in intermodal and our renewals while we were increasing on the network side. So I think consistent with our experience there, we have an improved efficiency cost position and we'll think we'll grow our margins more through volume early in the year particularly.

[Scott Group, MD & Senior Analyst at Wolfe Research]

Okay. And then if I

[Scott Group, MD & Senior Analyst at Wolfe Research]

can just one more thing. I think last quarter you talked about mid single digit renewals in network. Can you talk about what they were in Q4?

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Very little activity in the Q4, Scott. So nothing to really highlight there. A lot of discussions in preparation for 2025 is really the focus there. But we were virtually through both intermodal and truck completely done with renewals at the end of the Q3.

[Scott Group, MD & Senior Analyst at Wolfe Research]

Makes sense. Thank you, guys. Appreciate the time.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Bascome Majors from Susquehanna. Your line is open.

[Bascome Majors, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Susquehanna]

Thanks for taking my questions. If we hear from a lot of players in the industry, Dedicated has been a particular challenge with this extended down cycle and you guys commentary and outlook has been and sounds like it continues to be a bit more positive. Can you talk a little about either how you're targeting the market or your mix of customers that is generating that perceived outcome? And is that something that you think can continue into a greater up cycle as well on a relative basis? Thank you.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

Yes. Thanks, Vasco. And this is Jim. I'll take that one. So really it's we're not seeing competition between dedicated providers as much as dedicated solutions turning over and becoming really network solutions as customers were seeking lower cost options.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

And so specifically what we've done to be able to defend against that is just ensuring that when we're putting together a dedicated solution, it's truly dedicated, that it is a multi year agreement. It's structured in a way that has teeth in it for both sides, that we're providing great service, that's not going to be able to be easily replicated with a network type solution and certainly not something that is going to be replaced by lower cost spot pricing. And then specifically, there's verticals where we have differentiation, where we build some specific skills to be able to grow into specialty dedicated into reefers, much broader than just the standard drive van.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

And one of the things we're most excited about with the targeted acquisitions that we made the last 3 years, they introduced us each one of those 2 different verticals. For example, we have more exposure now to the automotive production side, particularly through the Asian transport and overseas manufacturers, different specialty retail now with Cowen and the more the lightweight space. And so it gives us just a much more diversified play in the marketplace. We've never been more diversified as it relates to our dedicated positioning. And as such, I think we've been a bit more resilient than some in the industry as it relates to what Jim was referencing there.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

We haven't seen the overall churn because of that focus. Thank you.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Bruce Chan from Stifel. Your line is open.

[Andrew Cox, Research Associate at Stifel Financial Corp]

Hi, good morning team. This is Andrew Cox on for Bruce. We wanted to follow-up on the kind of capacity and rate questions from earlier. We are seeing some signs either through some of the data and through channel checks that there may be some early signs that a backlog and disruption is occurring kind of on a regional, on a local market level. We just kind of wanted to understand if you're seeing any of that, if you're seeing any backlogs or disruptions regionally, if you've seen any localized tightness in the spot market and how that's maybe shifted over the past couple of weeks?

[Andrew Cox, Research Associate at Stifel Financial Corp]

Thanks.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

Yes, thanks. This is Jim. I'll take that one. So certainly we've seen some different weather events as we've gone through the Q4 and then into January. So Q4, obviously we had a series of hurricanes and we have wildfires and now we've had snow in parts of the country that don't typically get snow.

[Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics at Schneider National]

And so there were some disruptions, especially with the snow events, to our operations, but also to our customers. And so you have this displaced capacity and demand that needs to work itself out, especially in those markets. We've seen some capacity that just wasn't available and of course the corresponding market impact.

[Andrew Cox, Research Associate at Stifel Financial Corp]

Okay. Thank you. If I can just quickly follow-up, have you seen anything that may be related to pre inventory buildings, pre tariff or potentially on the supply side with changes in immigration and changes at the border? Thanks.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Yes. I don't think we have anything to really report of any significant changes in trends. So as most of our customers and at least the ones we've been in dialogue with here the last several weeks of the year and in part in the 2025 feel almost to a customer about where they want to be from an inventory standpoint. And so we do have cases where certain customers have done some action to pull forward, but that's not consistent or representative all across the customer base. So it's been very specific and not universal.

[Andrew Cox, Research Associate at Stifel Financial Corp]

Okay. Appreciate the insights and the time. Thanks.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from the line of Eero Rosa from Citigroup. Your line is open.

[Ben Mohr, AVP - Equity Research -Transportation at Citi]

Hi, good morning guys. Thanks for taking the question. This is Ben Moore on for Ari. It looks like a key driver of your operating expense growth sequentially was an insurance on the cost that you mentioned related to elevated nuclear verdicts. Insurance expense looks like stepped up in the quarter from 2.8% of revenue to 3.8% of revenue.

[Ben Mohr, AVP - Equity Research -Transportation at Citi]

Do you think that's the new norm? Or should it trend back down to between 2.5% to 3% of revenue or perhaps go higher?

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

Yes. This is Daryl. So in our prepared remarks, we did talk about 3 prior year accident claims that were driving, the increase, I guess, of $7,000,000 or $0.03 in the quarter. So we wouldn't characterize that activity as normal. I think as Mark said in his remarks, we've been very active in reducing our frequency, right, which is the number one line of defense.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

And if you look at our frequency by any measure, we've been at record levels in terms of the ability to manage that. Outside of that, there are things that we don't directly control. But in the quarter, I would say, the refinement of those reserves is not something that we'd expect to happen every quarter.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Yes. Those are older claims that we felt was prudent to refine the reserve and we largely in the truckload sector.

[Ben Mohr, AVP - Equity Research -Transportation at Citi]

Great. Appreciate that. And maybe as a follow-up back to the dedicated truck count question, just for clarification, you ended 3Q at about 6,600. Adding Cowen at 19 100, that should be about 8,500 after maybe we model slightly a step down from 8,500 from a step down from your legacy truck count. You mentioned earlier that you see a line of sight to several 100 trucks of new business in first half.

[Ben Mohr, AVP - Equity Research -Transportation at Citi]

And then last quarter you mentioned a large customer that's pushed to greenfield new product launch from second half of twenty twenty four into twenty twenty five. So should we expect maybe that 8,500 to quickly approach 9,000 in the middle of 2025?

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

I'll unpack all that in there succinctly. So what's in our number obviously is 1 month of the quarter on an average basis with the Cowen addition. So we exited the year roughly at 8,500 dedicated units and some of those we are had stage for startups to your point that delayed from Q4 to end of second half into twenty twenty five here. So we can get which is my comments about getting higher revenue per truck per week when we get those underutilized assets deployed against revenue in 2025. So we won't see 1 for 1 truck count growth here, but we will see improved results because we'll be putting that capital to play.

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

So coming into the year around 8,500 and we would expect to obviously build through our commercial success throughout the year.

[Ben Mohr, AVP - Equity Research -Transportation at Citi]

Really appreciate that. Thanks so much.

[Operator]

Your final question comes from the line of Jordan Alliger from Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.

[Analyst]

Hey, thanks for squeezing us in here. This is Andre on for Jordan. Just want to clarify a little bit on the truckload operating ratio comment into the Q1. Just given that we're coming from the elevated level, the 96.5 percent, I know historically margins do deteriorate, but could we hold the OR sequentially into the Q1?

[Mark Rourke, President & CEO at Schneider National]

Again, we don't guide by segment and we don't guide by quarter, but certainly because we had some return of seasonality in some of the project work, there was some enhanced it was great to see the seasonality. We won't probably experience that to the same degree in the Q1, but it doesn't mean that we don't have other opportunity to improve the business in other ways. So we're not going to give guidance to that, but rest assured we're leaning into every opportunity to continue to advance our margin profile. We've talked about pricing, we've talked about asset utilization and we've talked about cost containment.

[Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO at Schneider National]

And this is Darryl. Just also keep in mind that the see through reserve refinement that we did talk about primarily impacted the truckload segment. So wouldn't expect that in the Q1 either.

[Analyst]

Got it. Thanks everybody.

Participants

Executives

• Bindas Steve, Director of Finance - Investor Relations
• Mark Rourke, President & CEO
• Darrell Campbell, Executive VP & CFO
• Jim Filter, Executive VP & Group President of Transportation & Logistics

Analysts

• Daniel Imbro, Managing Director at Stephens Inc
• Ravi Shanker, Managing Director at Morgan Stanley
• Brian Ossenbeck, MD - Senior Analyst, Transportation at JP Morgan
• Jason Seidl, Managing Director at TD Cowen
• David Hicks, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Raymond James Financial
• Ken Hoexter, Managing Director at Bank of America
• Analyst
• Jonathan Chappell, Senior Managing Director at Evercore ISI
• Scott Group, MD & Senior Analyst at Wolfe Research
• Bascome Majors, Senior Equity Research Analyst at Susquehanna
• Andrew Cox, Research Associate at Stifel Financial Corp
• Ben Mohr, AVP - Equity Research -Transportation at Citi