Cincinnati Financial Q4 2024 Earnings Report

Cincinnati Financial EPS Results

• Actual EPS: $3.14
• Consensus EPS: $1.90
• Beat/Miss: Beat by +$1.24
• One Year Ago EPS: N/A

Cincinnati Financial Revenue Results

• Actual Revenue: N/A
• Expected Revenue: $2.63 billion
• Beat/Miss: N/A
• YoY Revenue Growth: N/A

Cincinnati Financial Announcement Details

• Quarter: Q4 2024
• Date: 2/10/2025
• Time: After Market Closes
• Conference Call Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2025
• Conference Call Time: 11:00AM ET

Cincinnati Financial (NASDAQ:CINF), together with its subsidiaries, provides property casualty insurance products in the United States. It operates through five segments: Commercial Lines Insurance, Personal Lines Insurance, Excess and Surplus Lines Insurance, Life Insurance, and Investments. The Commercial Lines Insurance segment offers coverage for commercial casualty, commercial property, commercial auto, and workers' compensation. It also provides contract and commercial surety bonds, and fidelity bonds; and machinery and equipment. The Personal Lines Insurance segment offers personal auto insurance; homeowner insurance; and dwelling fire, inland marine, personal umbrella liability, and watercraft coverages to individuals. The Excess and Surplus Lines Insurance segment offers commercial casualty insurance that covers businesses for third-party liability from accidents occurring on their premises or arising out of their operations, such as injuries sustained from products, as well as other coverages, including miscellaneous errors and omissions, professional liability, and excess liability; and commercial property insurance, which insures buildings, inventory, equipment, and business income from loss or damage due to various causes, such as fire, wind, hail, water, theft, and vandalism. The Life Insurance segment provides term life insurance products; universal life insurance products; worksite products, such as term life; and whole life insurance products, as well as annuities. The Investments segment invests in fixed-maturity investments, including taxable and tax-exempt bonds, redeemable preferred stocks, and mortgage-backed securities; and equity investments comprising common and nonredeemable preferred stocks. It also offers commercial leasing and financing services; and insurance brokerage services. Cincinnati Financial Corporation was founded in 1950 and is headquartered in Fairfield, Ohio.

Cincinnati Financial Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Presentation

[Operator]

This is the conference operator. Thank you for holding for the Cincinnati Financial Conference Call. We'll be starting in about two minutes after the top of the hour. We appreciate your patience, and please continue to hold for the Cincinnati Financial Conference Call.

[Operator]

We'll be starting in about two minutes. Thank

[Operator]

you.

[Operator]

Okay. Okay.

[Operator]

Okay.

[Operator]

Okay. Okay.

[Operator]

Good morning, and welcome to the Cincinnati Financial Fourth Quarter and Full Year twenty twenty four Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen only mode. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Dennis McDaniel, Investor Relations Officer.

[Operator]

Please go ahead.

[Dennis McDaniel, Investor Relations at Cincinnati Financial]

Hello. This is Dennis McDaniel with Cincinnati Financial. Thank you for joining us for our fourth quarter and full year twenty twenty four earnings conference call. Late yesterday, we issued a news release on our results along with our supplemental financial package, including our year end investment portfolio. To find copies of any of these documents, please visit our investor website, investors.senfin.com.

[Dennis McDaniel, Investor Relations at Cincinnati Financial]

The shortest route to the information is the quarterly results section near the middle of the investor overview page. On this call, you'll first hear from President and Chief Executive Officer, Steve Spray and then from Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Mike Sewell. After their prepared remarks, investors participating on the call may ask questions. At that time, some responses may be made by others in the room with us, including Executive Chairman, Steve Johnston Chief Investment Officer, Steve Salorio and Cincinnati Insurance's Chief Claims Officer, Mark Schambeau Senior Vice President of Corporate Finance, Theresa Hopper. Please note that some of the matters to be discussed today are forward looking.

[Dennis McDaniel, Investor Relations at Cincinnati Financial]

These forward looking statements involve certain risks and uncertainties. With respect to these risks and uncertainties, we direct your attention to our news release and to our various filings with the SEC. Also, a reconciliation of non GAAP measures was provided with the news release. Statutory accounting data is prepared in accordance with statutory accounting rules and therefore has not reconciled to GAAP. Now I'll turn over the call to Steve.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Good morning and thank you for joining us today to hear more about our results. Our hearts go out to those impacted by the LA wildfires. You've lost homes, treasured belongings, a sense of community and in the most devastating cases, loved ones. I also want to thank the first responders who put their lives on the line, our agents for their support and partnership, and of course, our claims associates who are working tirelessly to help our policyholders with immediate needs and longer term plans. Before I share more details about our current estimate for this catastrophe, let's dive into how we performed last year.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Operating performance for the fourth quarter was very strong and many key areas showed improvements. We are also pleased with performance for full year 2024, thanks to the superb work of our associates providing service to agents who we consider to be the best in the insurance business. Our fourth quarter results compared to the same period last year included a better combined ratio and excellent growth in premiums and investment income. The result boosted net income and we had double digit growth in operating income. Net income was $4.00 $5,000,000 for the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

It included recognition of $107,000,000 on an after tax basis for the decrease in fair value of equity securities still held. An unfavorable swing of $931,000,000 from the same period a year ago. Net income for the year rose 24%. Non GAAP operating income for the quarter increased 38% to $497,000,000 and rose 26% for full year 2024. Our eighty four point seven percent fourth quarter twenty twenty four propertycasualty combined ratio was 2.8 percentage points better than a year ago.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

It brought the full year combined ratio to an outstanding 93.4%, one point five points better than 2023. The full year improvement included a catastrophe loss ratio effect only 0.2 points lower. Our 86.5% accident year 2024 combined ratio before catastrophe losses improved by 1.9 percentage points compared with accident year 2023, including five points of improvement for the fourth quarter. We reported another quarter of strong premium growth. We believe it's profitable growth as our underwriters diligently use pricing precision tools to support their risk segmentation efforts on a policy by policy basis.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Estimated average renewal price increases for the fourth quarter were similar to the third quarter of twenty twenty four. Commercial lines moved slightly lower in the high single digit percentage range and excess and surplus lines remained in the high single digit range. Our personal lines segment was also similar to the third quarter with personal auto in the low double digit range and homeowner in the high single digit range. New business growth produced by agencies representing Cincinnati Insurance continued at a nice pace. Nearly one third of the growth for the year was from agencies appointed since the beginning of 2023, reflecting our strategy of appointing additional agencies where we identify appropriate expansion opportunities.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Policy retention rates in 2024 were similar to last year with our Commercial Lines segment up slightly, but still in the upper 80% range. Our Personal Lines segment remained in a similar position of the low to mid 90% range. The overall result was consolidated property casualty net written premiums growth are growing 17% for the quarter, including 15% growth in agency renewal premiums and 23% in new business premiums. Next is a brief review of performance by insurance segment for full year 2024 compared with 2023. Most metrics also improved on a fourth quarter basis.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Commercial lines grew net written premiums 8% with an excellent combined ratio that improved by three percentage points to 93.2%. Personal lines grew net written premiums 30% and improved the combined ratio by 2.9 percentage points to 97.5%. Access and surplus lines grew net written premiums 15% with a 94% combined ratio. Although that was 3.4 percentage points higher than last year, it's still quite profitable. Both Cincinnati RE and Cincinnati Global were also very profitable.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Cincinnati RE grew net written premium 7% with an 85% combined ratio, while Cincinnati Global's growth was 8% with a 73.6% combined ratio. Our life insurance subsidiary also improved its results with a 21% increase in 2024 net income and term life insurance earned premium growth of 3%. These strong results combine to bring our value creation ratio in above our target of 10% to 13% on a five year average basis. Our fourth quarter VCR was 1.8% and we reached 19.8% on a full year basis. Net income before investment gains or losses for the year contributed 9.9%, higher overall valuation of our investment portfolio and other items contributed the other half.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Before I turn the call over to Mike, I'll provide our current estimates of financial effects related to the recent California wildfires and an update on our 2025 reinsurance program. We estimate first quarter twenty twenty five pre tax catastrophe losses of approximately $450,000,000 to $525,000,000 net of reinsurance recoveries. That includes approximately 73% for our personal lines insurance segment, 24% for Cincinnati RE and 3% for Cincinnati Global. We reinstated the applicable layers of our primary property catastrophe reinsurance treaty coverage and will cede additional premiums to our reinsurers. Cincinnati Re will receive additional premiums from treaties reinstated.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

The estimated net effect of first quarter premium revenue is a decrease of $50,000,000 to $60,000,000 To keep this event in perspective, had the wildfire effect occurred in 2024, we believe we would still have earned a modest underwriting profit. On January one of this year, we again renewed each of our primary property casualty treaties that transfer part of our risk to reinsurers. For our per risk treaties, we increased our retention for the property treaty to $15,000,000 while retention for the casualty treaty remained at $10,000,000 Other terms and conditions for 2025 are fairly similar to 2024. The primary objective for our property catastrophe treaty is to protect our balance sheet. The treaty's main change this year is adding another $300,000,000 of coverage, increasing the top of the program from $1,200,000,000 to $1,500,000,000 We again retain all of the first two hundred million dollars then retain 56% of the next $100,000,000 20 5 percent of the next $100,000,000 and approximately 14% of the next $1,100,000,000 Now let me turn the call over to Chief Financial Officer, Mike Sewell, for additional highlights of our financial performance.

[Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer at Cincinnati Financial]

Thank you, Steve, and thanks to all of you for joining us today. Investment income reached $1,000,000,000 for the year and significantly contributed to our improved operating performance. It grew 17% for the fourth quarter and 15% for the full year 2024 compared with the same periods of last year. Dividend income was down 4% in the fourth quarter, driven by third quarter sales of equity securities from previously disclosed rebalancing of our investment portfolio. Bond interest income grew 28% for the fourth quarter of this year.

[Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer at Cincinnati Financial]

Net purchases of fixed maturities securities totaled $1,100,000,000 for the quarter and $2,500,000,000 for the year. The fourth quarter pretax average yield of 4.93% for the fixed maturity portfolio was up 45 basis points compared with last year. The average pretax yield for the total of purchased taxable and tax exempt bonds during 2024 was 5.66%. Valuation changes in aggregate for the fourth quarter were unfavorable for both our equity portfolio and our bond portfolio. Before tax effects, the net loss was $136,000,000 for the equity portfolio and $350,000,000 for the bond portfolio.

[Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer at Cincinnati Financial]

At the end of the fourth quarter, the total investment portfolio net appreciated value was approximately $6,700,000,000 The equity portfolio was in a net gain position of $7,200,000,000 while the fixed maturity portfolio was in a net loss position of $553,000,000 Cash flow in addition to higher bond yields continue to benefit investment income growth. Cash flow from operating activities for full year 2024 was $2,600,000,000 up 29% from last year. Regarding expense management, our objective is to balance spending control efforts with investing strategically in our business. Our 29.9% full year 2024 property casualty underwriting expense ratio was in line with 2023 in total and for each major expense category. The fourth quarter ratio was 1.4 percentage points lower than last year, primarily due to lower accruals for agency profit sharing commissions in addition to premium growth outpacing the increase in employee related expenses.

[Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer at Cincinnati Financial]

My next topic is loss reserves, where our approach remains consistent and aims for the net amounts in the upper half of the actuarially estimated range of net loss and loss expense reserves. As we do each quarter, we consider new information such as paid losses and case reserves. Then we updated estimated ultimate losses and loss expenses by accident year and line of business. During 2024, our net addition to property casualty loss and loss expense reserves was $1,100,000,000 including $998,000,000 for the IB and R portion. We experienced $236,000,000 of property casualty net favorable reserve development on prior accident years that benefited the combined ratio by 2.7 percentage points during 2024.

[Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer at Cincinnati Financial]

For our commercial casualty line of business, there was no material reserve development for any prior accident year during the fourth quarter. On an all lines basis by accident year, net reserve development during 2024 included a favorable $369,000,000 for 2023, favorable $63,000,000 for 2022, favorable $5,000,000 for 2021 and an unfavorable $2.00 $1,000,000 in aggregate for accident years prior to 2021. My final comments highlight our capital management activities. For full year 2024, we returned capital to shareholders through $490,000,000 of dividends paid in addition to share repurchases. Shares repurchased totaled 1,100,000.0 shares at an average price of approximately $113 per share, including an immaterial amount during the fourth quarter.

[Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer at Cincinnati Financial]

We believe our financial flexibility and our financial strength are both in excellent position. Parent company cash and marketable securities at year end totaled $5,200,000,000 Debt to total capital remained under 10% and our quarter end book value was at a record high $89.11 per share with nearly $14,000,000,000 of GAAP consolidated shareholders' equity providing plenty of capacity for profitable growth of our insurance operations. Now, I'll turn the call back over to Steve.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Thanks, Mike. Twenty twenty five marks the seventy fifth anniversary of the Cincinnati Insurance Company.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Over that time, we've come to understand the importance of stability, consistency and financial strength. We understand that we are in the business of accepting risk. We plan for it, we price for it. We spend considerable time and effort focused on appropriately balancing growth and profitability through geographic and product diversification, pricing sophistication and enterprise risk management. No one expects to experience a catastrophic loss such as those felt by the people who found themselves in the paths of hurricanes Helene and Milton or the California wildfires.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

However, it's in the aftermath of these events that Cincinnati Insurance can shine. Confident in our financial strength, our claims associates can focus on delivering fast, fair and empathetic service. At the same time, we are ready to build value for shareholders. The Board recently reinforced their confidence in our strategy by declaring a 7% dividend increase payable in April and paving the way to extend our streak of increasing dividends to sixty five years. As a reminder, with Mike and me today are Steve Johnston, Steve Saloria, Mark Schambeau and Teresa Hoffer.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Gary, please open the call for questions.

[Operator]

We will now begin the question and answer session. Our first question today comes from Michael Phillips with Oppenheimer. Please go ahead.

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

Thank you. Good morning, everybody. Just want to start off, I guess, Steve, love to hear your perspective on higher level question on the outlook for the reinsurance sector in the aftermath of California. I guess, how do you see capacity as the year progresses? How do you expect Sensi Re to respond?

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

And then maybe how should that translate into kind of premium for 2025 for that segment? Thanks.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Yes. Mike, are you talking specifically on Cincinnati Re or ceded REE?

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

Well, I think first of

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

all, just your thoughts yes, just your thoughts on

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

the market in general broadly for

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

the industry, how it responds, and then kind of drill down to how you guys it looks there could be some opportunities, how you guys would respond and what that means for Cincinnati REE?

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Yes. Maybe I'll start with just the reinsurance market to your question, Mike, first is. Sure. I think the reinsurers appropriately the last couple of years, I think have just the industry itself has shown an underwriting profit. I think that's good.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

That's healthy. We all need that. I'll speak specifically for Cincinnati Insurance. We've just got such long term relationships and partnerships with our seeded partners, our reinsurers, and talk to them on a regular basis, obviously. We expect to pay all of our losses ground up plus the reinsurers margin over time.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

We need them healthy. They know that. We've traded with them that way over time and that won't change. So that would probably be my remarks there. Cincinnati REIT, they're going to stay the course.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

You heard we had an extremely profitable 2024 inception to date with Cincinnati RE is very profitable as well. They plan for cat. That's what they do. Their losses on specifically on the California wildfires were within expectation and they'll proceed throughout the year with their 2025 plan, no change.

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

Okay. Thanks, Steve. Next question is, I ask, I wouldn't classify your umbrella exposure in general for your company as tiny, but it's only not outsized. But question related to sort of umbrella. In personal lines, I think this quarter, I didn't see a lot it's a personal lines umbrella.

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

I didn't see a lot of change in claim count activity in that two to five layer, but dollar amounts did move up. So something's there, 10 plus 25, dollars 30 5 million of loss in that 2 to $5,000,000

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

layer. Any color

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

you can add on anything in a quarter specifically that would help justify that amount of dollars in that layer? And then more broadly after the quarter, anything you're seeing in umbrella excess layers that would cause any concerns? Thank you.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Yes. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate the question. Now looking at a quarter for Umbrella, whether it be commercial or personal, I think it's going to kind of mislead you a little bit. I think you got to pull back to more of an annual number.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

There's just the frequency with Umbrella is obviously very low. It's a severity line. There's inherent volatility in it. So we look at every single large loss we have in every single line of business we have and look for trends whether it be by state, by agency, by class of business. That's obviously, I'm speaking to commercial.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

We do the same thing for personal lines as well. So we don't see anything in that commercial book or excuse me, in that personal lines umbrella book that causes us any concern.

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

Okay. Thank you and congrats on the quarter. Appreciate

[Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.]

it.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Yes. Thanks so much, Mike. Appreciate it.

[Operator]

The next question is from Gregory Peters with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

[Gregory Peters, Managing Director - Equity Research at Raymond James Financial]

Good morning. I want to go back to the comments on the fire loss. Could you provide some perspective on I think you said $50,000,000 to $60,000,000 of reinstatement costs, but the gross loss might be or what you're pegging for using for your gross loss number and just trying to figure out how far up the tower you want?

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Yes. Thanks, Greg. And as you can imagine, this is an active still an active cat. And for right now, our range our net range that we're providing you is our best estimate of ultimate loss and we're going to just stick with that net range of the $450,000,000 to $525,000,000 million dollars just not there's so many moving parts right now, Greg, just providing a gross number is we're not ready to go.

[Gregory Peters, Managing Director - Equity Research at Raymond James Financial]

Sure. Can maybe pivot away from that then

[Gregory Peters, Managing Director - Equity Research at Raymond James Financial]

and just I know the there was a call recently with the insurance regulator and the governor and a bunch of insurance companies and it feels like there's some movement to making allowing more rate activity in homeowners to compensate for the fire risk. Can you talk about what your perspective is of that market looking forward once we get through paying all the losses, etcetera?

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Yes, sure. One thing I'd point out for the Cincinnati book is 77% of our homeowner premiums in California today are on a non admitted basis. On the admitted side, I don't I think it's pretty well documented. I don't think it's any secret that California is a challenging market. We've got great agents and policyholders and we want to support them.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

As you can imagine also after I just mentioned any individual single large loss and also after any cat event, we do a deep dive as a company and objectively look at everything regardless of the event and determine if there's lessons learned, there's always lessons learned, there's anything we need to do in changing our strategy moving forward, if anything. We'll obviously do that here with California and with the wildfires. And there's just a lot of as you can imagine, Greg, there's a lot of moving parts with this as well. And yes, the regulation, rate environment, things of that nature, there's a long list of things that we will look at. But I think right now, we are really focused on paying claims fairly, empathetically face to face and the lessons learned, although we are looking at them actively, that'll take a little longer to really formulate if we're going to make any changes going forward.

[Gregory Peters, Managing Director - Equity Research at Raymond James Financial]

Okay. I'll pivot away from that line of questioning. Just my question broadly speaking is, there's in the commercial lines market, maybe in the personal lines market ex California, just this growing sense that the pricing cycles kind of peaked, maybe it's moderating price increases aren't as robust in some instances are going down. Can you remind us and just give us a snapshot of where you were at the end of the year? And I know part of your book has multi year policies.

[Gregory Peters, Managing Director - Equity Research at Raymond James Financial]

Can you give us a snapshot of where those policies reside and what the percentage of the total was?

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Yes, sure. So as we just talked about, on the for the major lines of business, commercial property, general liability and auto, we're in the high single digit range. Work comp is down in the mid single digit range. That's been pretty well documented. So we're still seeing rate into that commercial lines book.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

But I think the point estimate or the average, Greg, just doesn't it doesn't tell the story for us. Our underwriters at the desk level working with agents using the precision the pricing tools that they have are segmenting our book. So there's a large percentage of our book of business, and as you know, we're a package underwriter that may, just as an example, may get a flat increase. And there's a percentage of our book, albeit smaller, may get 20% or 30%. Point being is that we are segmenting, we're underwriting and pricing policy by policy, risk by risk.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

So we're still seeing rate come into the book. The rate from last year, eighteen months ago was still earning into the book. So I suspect here throughout 2025, you'll still see rate coming into that commercial lines book.

[Gregory Peters, Managing Director - Equity Research at Raymond James Financial]

Thank you

[Gregory Peters, Managing Director - Equity Research at Raymond James Financial]

for your answers.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Sure. Thank you, Greg.

[Operator]

The next question is from Dean Cricitiello with KBW. Please go ahead.

[Dean Criscitiello, Equity Research Associate at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)]

I wanted to start and sort of dive deeper into the reserve strengthening both in Commercial Auto and the Access and Surplusine segment. I was just sort of curious like if there's anything else you could provide on sort of the accident years that the strengthening came from and what sort of trends you're seeing in those lines?

[Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer at Cincinnati Financial]

Yes. Thanks for the question, Dean. This is Mike Sewell. So, yes, you're keying in on a couple of points there. So on the personal auto, it's really, I think, our case incurred for some of the liability coverages that are in there were showing a upward trend.

[Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer at Cincinnati Financial]

And I would say that those were mostly for the 2023 and the 2022 accident years mostly. So that's where you saw a little bit of reserve strengthening there. And then as it relates to the surplus lines, our case incurreds are there. They were just materializing greater than what we had expected. E and S is about 90% casualty, at least of our book.

[Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer at Cincinnati Financial]

So it's really kind of similar to the industry averages that we're seeing with inflation, etcetera. So more prudent reserving was there. And as I indicated, we added nine ninety eight million dollars of IBNR. So for the overall book, about a third of that went to commercial casualty. So just prudent reserving, watching what we're doing and being consistent with our process.

[Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer at Cincinnati Financial]

So thanks for the question.

[Dean Criscitiello, Equity Research Associate at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)]

Yes, got it. That makes sense. And then just quickly on the commercial property like a current accident, your ex cat loss ratio, it seemed abnormally low this quarter. Is there any other color you can provide on why the profitability was so strong this quarter?

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Sure. Dean, this is Steve Sprague. Yes, we'll take it. But what's driving that is was just a drop in large losses This drove the absolute lion's share of those commercial property results. But I would be you can get volatility with those large losses quarter to quarter.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

We've had it where we where it's gone the other way. So again, prefer to look at the kind of the full year. Our teams, I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about commercial lines underwriting teams working with the agents and underwriting that commercial property book. It was running a bit of a temperature. And so just as we always do, all hands on deck with risk selection and pricing segmentation got us in a good spot there.

[Dean Criscitiello, Equity Research Associate at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)]

Got it. Thank you.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Thank you, Dean.

[Operator]

The next question is from Michael Zaremski with BMO Capital Markets. Please go

[Analyst]

ahead. Hi, good morning. It's Dan on for Mike. If I could just go back to adding to commercial casualty, IBNR, you're still adding to those levels year over year, maybe a little less so in magnitude in 2023. But can you just talk about the loss cost inflation trend that you're seeing now and how that's changed throughout the year?

[Analyst]

Thanks.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Sure. Mike, Steve Spray again. Yes, as you know, we don't disclose a specific loss cost increase. But I would say, maybe I'll answer this a little broader too, is we feel that our rates, our premiums, again, this is on a prospective basis. Everything we do with rate making is prospective that our pricing is exceeding or matching loss costs.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

And the only one caveat on that would be with the workers' compensation line of business.

[Analyst]

Okay, thanks. Then maybe just on the casualty trend, what how much of that would you say is a reaction to Citi's contractors' industry exposure? I think some peers have talked about this industry as being overly exposed to social inflation.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Yes. I can't say that we have seen the construction business, at least the business that we write, Mike, being overly exposed to social inflation. A lot of the social inflation we see is under the umbrella off of auto commercial auto losses. We do back to the construction piece, we do watch closely and it really depends on the jurisdiction you're in or the venue in. Construction defects claims can be a challenge from time to time, and maybe that's what they're referring to.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

But for our construction book, which would be small to mid market particularly, trade contractors and such, With that mix of business, we haven't seen I can't say we've seen the social inflation into our construction book.

[Analyst]

Okay. Thanks. Then also just on workers' comp, you mentioned that's the only line of business where you're seeing trend above pricing. Just there was an acceleration in reserve leases and comp this year. Are there any thoughts to maybe adjusting that pick going forward or taking some more of the good news upfront?

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Yes, that's something that we talk regularly here with the actuarial team and they're taking a look at it all the time. So I don't have anything to report on that, Mike. Obviously, I've been talking about the deterioration of work comp pricing for I don't know how long now. And calendar year wise, the results continue to be favorable. So we'll take it.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

But your point is also well taken as far as just understanding and maybe taking a different view of it. We'll leave that in the hands or in discussions with the actuaries.

[Analyst]

Thank you.

[Operator]

This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Steve Spray for any closing remarks.

[Stephen Spray, CEO at Cincinnati Financial]

Thank you, Gary, and thank you all for joining us today. We look forward to speaking with you again on our first quarter twenty twenty five call.

[Operator]

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Participants

Executives

• Dennis McDaniel, Investor Relations
• Stephen Spray, CEO
• Michael J. Sewell, CFO, Principal Accounting Officer, Executive VP & Treasurer

Analysts

• Michael Phillips, Managing Director and Insurance Analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. Inc.
• Gregory Peters, Managing Director - Equity Research at Raymond James Financial
• Dean Criscitiello, Equity Research Associate at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)
• Analyst