Wynn Resorts Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

AlphaStreet
Provided by AlphaStreet
February 13, 2025
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Operator

Welcome to the Wind Resorts 4th-Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. All participants are in a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. To ask a question, please press star one on your touchtone phone. Record your name and I will introduce you. Please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up question. This call is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time.

I will now turn the line over to Julie Camerendo, Chief Financial Officer. Please go-ahead.

Julie Cameron-Doe
Chief Financial Officer at Wynn Resorts

Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. On the call with me today are Craig Billing and Brian in Las Vegas. Also on the line are Linda Chen and Frederick. Please note that we published a presentation to provide more color on the company and recent performance ahead of this call.

You can find the presentation on our Investor Relations website. This will become a regular fixture along with our earnings release going-forward. I want to remind you that we may make forward-looking statements under Safe-Harbor federal securities laws and those statements may or may not come true.

I will now turn the call over to Craig Billings.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Thanks, Julie, and good afternoon. As always, thank you for joining us today. You know, we've been very active over the past three years, making innumerable positive changes to and investments in our businesses in Las Vegas, Boston and Macau, changes in how we market in our underlying technology and how we deliver service to our best customers in how we build and program food and beverage and retail and how we program entertainment in the production of our own unique events and in how we control expenses. All of these changes made in pursuit of further distancing ourselves from our competitors. And you can see the results of these efforts in our 2024 results. Yet another record year of adjusted property EBITDA, including another annual record in Las Vegas.

Operationally, we are stronger, more nimble and more results focused than we have ever been. Meanwhile, we are expeditiously developing what I believe to be the most exciting development project in the industry in the UAE, a project that will ultimately produce meaningful EBITDA and further diversify our business. The opening of that project, coupled with a concurrent reduction in the amount of capex we will be deploying in North-America will also mark an important inflection point in our free-cash flow profile.

Our future is bright, and it is this bright future coupled with the fact that our stock price continues to inappropriately reflect the value of our assets that drove us to repurchase $200 million of stock in the 4th-quarter and another $150 million thus far in Q1. While industry multiples remain suppressed, while growth capital remains focused on a narrow set of AI and tech companies and until we believe when Elmarjan is appropriately reflected in our valuation, we will continue to repurchase our equity because we believe the return profile on those repurchases is meaningful. Thank you.

Now turning to the quarter and starting here in Las Vegas. Demand remained healthy in the 4th-quarter with table games drop essentially flat against a very tough comp and slot handle up by 13%. Our gaming market-share for the quarter grew meaningfully, highlighting the strength and quality of what we offer here in Vegas. Our non-gaming business in Q4 was also strong, though it was impacted by tough year-over-year comparisons during F1 week. EBITDA during the event in 2024 was about $20 million lower than in 2023. The lion's share of the difference was due to a decline in RevPAR stemming from lower overall Las Vegas room rates during that event, though it is important to note that in both years, our ADRs were about 50% higher than those of two closest competing properties here in Las Vegas and our daily EBITDA during the 2024 event remained materially elevated relative to the years before F1 was a fixture in the market.

The F1 team did a tremendous job with this year's event and with the event having now settled in, we have a good baseline from which to grow in future years. More recently, demand in January looked good with both drop and handle up year-over-year and ADR and F&B covers both up year-over-year. Of course, this year, we didn't have the benefit of hosting the Super Bowl here in Las Vegas, which impacts February, and that's about a $25 million EBITDA headwind for Q1 versus 2024. Excluding Super Bowl weekend, all of our key volume metrics are up year-over-year.

Looking further out, we already have our budgeted group and convention room nights for 2025 on the books at healthy ADRs and transient booking demand over the last two weeks has been extremely robust. When coupled with a calendar that is once again chock-full of large demand drivers in the market, the setup for 2025 feels good. The team at Wind Las Vegas continues to set the standard and with new food and beverage openings later this year, including the much-anticipated opening of Zero Bond, a planned renovation of the Encore tower and other relatively modest targeted investments, we will exit 2025 even stronger and with limited remaining capex on the horizon.

Turning to Boston, Encore Boston Harbor generated just shy of $59 million of EBITDAR. We were encouraged by particular strength in our slot business where handle was up 6%. This helped set a new all-time property record for slot revenue, offsetting some of the union-related payroll increases incurred in 2024. We continue to grow the database and stabilize some of the recently opened food and beverage outlets with the property's best days ahead. More recently, demand in Boston has remained healthy through January, led by strong year-over-year growth in slot handle and stable non-gaming revenue against a tough comp.

Turning to Macau, we generated $293 million of EBITDA during the 4th-quarter, down about 1% year-over-year and up 11% sequentially. While the market in Macau continues to be competitive, we remain disciplined in our focus on maximizing EBITDA and maintaining a healthy margin profile. We recently-completed the rollout of digital tables throughout Wynn Palace and Wynn Macau, which will yield opex benefits and when coupled with our data science and machine-learning capabilities, should allow us to be more precise and more efficient with reinvestment over the medium-term. On the capex side, we made a number of improvements and optimizations in Macau in the 4th-quarter, most notably an expansion of the Chairman's Club at Wind Macau, a gaming area focused on our best customers.

We will also soon be adding a variety of food and beverage offerings at Palace with the opening of our destination Food Hall, a development that we believe will drive incremental visitation and footfall to Wind Palace. We also continue to advance design work and approvals on the remainder of our concession-related capex, the event center, the theater and a production show at Wind Palace.

More recently, January was characterized by healthy mass table drop, strong direct VIP turnover and full occupancy in the hotels, while Chinese New Year saw a more prolonged period of visitation and less concentration on specific days than we saw in 2024. In fact, for the 14 days beginning January 29 and including the days after the holiday period, volumes were healthy with drop and turnover in-line with 2024 and slot handle up. Hold during the period was choppy, but volume indicators look good.

Turning to Win Island in the UAE, construction is rapidly progressing on the project with work now reaching the 35th floor of the hotel and over 4.6 million square feet of concrete and steel in-place. As we discussed at our Investor Day in October, we believe the UAE will be a $3 billion to $5 billion gaming market over-time and certainly the most exciting new market for our industry in decade. To support this project and the early work we are doing to build our database and brand awareness in the region. We were pleased to announce in early-January that we entered into an agreement to purchase Aspinols in Mayfair, London. This small but strategic asset provides a presence in Central London where many of our future Wen customers spend a meaningful amount of time.

Lastly, we are actively exploring and well-positioned to capitalize on additional new market opportunities in attractive gateway cities. And we have strategic land banks in each of our new markets that provide an embedded long-term growth pipeline. Thank you. Meanwhile, our leverage profile continues to improve as free-cash flow grows, allowing us to increase the return of capital to shareholders through the recurring dividend and meaningful share repurchases.

With that, I will now turn it over to Julie to run-through some additional details on the quarter.

Julie Cameron-Doe
Chief Financial Officer at Wynn Resorts

Thank you, Craig. At Wind Las Vegas, we generated $267.4 million in adjusted property EBITDA on $699.5 million of operating revenue during the quarter, delivering an EBITDA margin of 38.2%. EBITDA was down 1% year-on-year and revenues were up slightly on a difficult comp from 2023. Higher-than-normal table games sold positively impacted EBITDA by a little more than $30 million in the quarter, while volume metrics were positive with drop essentially flat year-on-year and slot handle up 13%.

OpEx excluding gaming tax per day was $4.4 million in the quarter, up about 1% compared to the prior year. The team in Las Vegas continued to exercise strong cost discipline and have largely mitigated the bulk of our union-related payroll and other benefits increases without impacting the guest experience. Turning to Boston, we generated adjusted property EBITDA of $58.8 million, down year-over-year on a tough comp on revenue of $212.7 million with an EBITDA margin of 27.7%. We stay very disciplined on the cost side with OpEx per day of $1.17 million, up only 2% year-on-year despite labor cost pressures in that market. The Boston team have also done a great job of mitigating union-related payroll increases with cost efficiencies in areas of the business that do not impact the guest experience.

Our Macau operations delivered adjusted property EBITDA of $292.8 million in the quarter on $926.6 million of operating revenue, resulting in an EBITDA margin of 31.6% in the quarter. Higher-than-normal VIP holds benefited EBITDA by a little over $12 million in the quarter. OpEx excluding gaming tax was approximately $2.59 million per day-in Q4, up 1.2% year-on-year. The team has done a great job staying disciplined on costs and we remain well-positioned to drive strong operating leverage as the market continues to grow over-time. In terms of capex in Macau, we're currently advancing through the design, planning and approval stages on several of our concession commitments. And as we noted the past few quarters, these projects require a number of government approvals, creating a wide range of potential capex outcomes in the near-term. As such, we now expect total capex spend in 2025, inclusive of our concession-related commitments and other projects to range between $250 million and $300 million.

Moving on to the balance sheet. Our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of $3.5 billion as of December 31. This was comprised of $1.8 billion of total cash and available liquidity in Macao and $1.7 billion in the US. The combination of strong performance in each of our markets globally with our properties generating nearly $2.4 billion of 2024 adjusted property EBITDA, together with our robust cash position creates a very healthy consolidated net leverage ratio of just over four times. Our strong free-cash flow and liquidity profile allows us to reduce leverage while returning capital to shareholders.

To that end, the Wind Resorts Board approved a cash dividend of $0.25 per share payable on March 5, 2025, to stockholders of record as of February 24. As Craig mentioned, we also repurchased 2.14 million shares for approximately $200 million during the quarter, bringing our total share repurchases for the year to 4.35 million shares for an aggregate cost of $386 million. These share buybacks, together with our recurring dividend highlight our focus on and continued commitment to prudently returning capital to shareholders.

Finally, we spent approximately $127 million on capex in the quarter, primarily related to the Villa renovations and food and beverage enhancements in Las Vegas, concession-related capex in Macau and normal-course maintenance across the business. Additionally, we contributed $99 million of equity to the Wyn project during the quarter, bringing our total equity contribution to date to $631.7 million. We estimate our remaining 40% pro-rata share of the required equity is approximately $700 million to $775 million, fully-loaded for capitalized interest, fees and certain improvements on the island.

Importantly, we recently-announced we finalized a $2.4 billion financing package for the project from a diverse group of globally recognized lenders. This landmark transaction is the largest hospitality financing in the history of the UAE and indicative of the broad support for this project from the financial community and beyond. We're very grateful for the support of our lenders and with the financing now in-place, have achieved a significant milestone on the path to opening the project as planned in early 2027.

With that, we will now open up the call for Q&A. Thank you.

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Operator

Thank you. To ask a question, press star one on your touchtone phone and unmute your phone and record your name clearly after the prompt. And I will introduce you for your question. Please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up question. To withdraw your question, press star 2. Our first question comes from Carlos Antarelli from Deutsche Bank. Please go-ahead.

Carlo Santarelli
Analyst at Deutsche Bank Aktiengesellschaft

Hey, Craig, Julia, everyone. Craig, if I could just start with kind of a, I guess, a question that's more focused on Las Vegas. But when you are giving that headwind or in this case, the tailwind from kind of favorable hold, what win rate are you adding that back to? Is that like a 22% embedded table hold?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Yeah. That's right.

Carlo Santarelli
Analyst at Deutsche Bank Aktiengesellschaft

Okay. So I guess my question is for close to two years now, if you look at the entirety of 2023 and 2024, your whole percentage has been kind of slightly north of 25%. And I was just wondering, you know, it feels as though perhaps the nature has changed a little bit. Clearly, there's been some mathematical changes, but also it seems as though that it skews higher more often than not. So I'm kind of wondering if we're doing the right thing at this point by continuing to kind of knock-down posted results by a number that you've achieved.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Well, that's a good question, Carlo. And you're right, we tend to be pretty conservative. I think that's true, by the way, not just in Las Vegas, but also in Macau, based on side bets, tie bets, you know, cash that gets dropped at the VIP tables and not just rolling. So I think your point is a valid one and we certainly will continue to look at it.

Carlo Santarelli
Analyst at Deutsche Bank Aktiengesellschaft

Great. Thank you. And then obviously, one of your peers in Las Vegas last night had very positive comments on January. You guys made positive comments -- comments on January and kind of the February period-to-date ex the Super Bowl. Should we take-in those comments that from an EBITDA perspective, you are seeing growth in January and February with the exception of that Super Bowl period or is it still kind of -- you're seeing top-line growth, you're seeing growth in certain channels and there's some cost pressures that you're trying to offset or is it kind of flowing through to EBITDA at this stage?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Yeah. Well, first of all, you're right, January, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, January was good and Super Bowl is not comparable. So what I would say is we were up year-to-year in all of the key volume indicators and really if you took it from a week ago, right, the day before Super Bowl weekend started, we were up across-the-board. So that to me is what's indicative of what's happening here in Las Vegas from a demand perspective. On the expense side, I think you've seen us be pretty good about managing the impact of cost pressures. You can see it in the 2024 results and driving pretty healthy margin. So we feel-good about Q1 other than the point that you raised, which is the Super Bowl headwind.

Carlo Santarelli
Analyst at Deutsche Bank Aktiengesellschaft

Yeah. Great. Thank you. And then just if I could, one quick one on Macau and I know obviously, market shares are not something that you guys focus on, whether it's as it pertains to GGR market-share. In terms of the competitive environment, you noted in your remarks that it remains competitive. It's always kind of competitive to an extent, but anything you're seeing as you look out to 2025 that would move the needle one-way or another in terms of the competitive nature of the market and how it impacts wind?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

No, I think it's -- you're -- you're correct, and we've said it as well. It is a highly competitive market. Competitive, but stable. I don't think that there's anything unusually crazy going on, but you're correct. And again, we've said it many times, we're focused on EBITDA and margin and that's what we think about every day. We know what our reinvestment is down to the basis-point and we will modulate it as we feel like we need to in order to drive the best EBITDA result that we can.

Carlo Santarelli
Analyst at Deutsche Bank Aktiengesellschaft

Great. Thank you very much.

Operator

Next, we'll go to the line of Sean Kelly from Bank of America. Please go-ahead.

Shaun Kelley
Analyst at Bank of America

Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Craig or Julie, just maybe we could ask about kind of keeping with Macau for a minute. You know, as we zoom out, I think there's been a lot of discussion around pretty good footfall into the market during Chinese New Year, but some questions about spend per visit and maybe is that a reflection of anything on the macro side? Kind of can you just give us the bottom-up look of how you're seeing kind of the just behavior in the market act right now and just kind of your general sense of health, especially as you look across segment premium mass versus base mass?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Thanks. Sure. The higher-end of premium is certainly outperformed base mass during Chinese New Year. That's definitely the case. And it could be -- it could be the economy. There's a lot of cross currents in the economy. It's difficult to read. There's been modest stimulus. Obviously, the economy is -- has seen stronger days in general, but I think it's fair to say that the premium customers outperformed base mass, at least for us. That's not commentary on obviously the entire market. And that's fine for us because that's our -- that's our customer-base.

Shaun Kelley
Analyst at Bank of America

Great. Great. And then maybe just as a short follow-up. You mentioned in the prepared remarks, the acquisition in London, quite a unique opportunity there. Craig, are there more sort of either bolt-on opportunities like that, places you could look to opportunistically expand the brand short of kind of full-scale IR development. Just how do you see that? I know it's probably very unique given again sort of the global customer that probably does do business in London, but just can you broaden that out for us because it is unique. It's obviously something you haven't explored before and kind of curious how you're thinking about it? Thanks.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Sure. Yeah, it is unique. And I think you characterized it well. This acquisition was really about establishing a presence in a key global gateway city and a part of the world where when taken together with Wen El Island, we're building a meaningful business. So the two, when you put the two properties together, they're going to serve an area which is home to 2.5 billion people and 40% of the world's millionaires. So you really should think about this as a part of Marjan. And in fact, the business will report up to Winnel.

Shaun Kelley
Analyst at Bank of America

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Next, we'll go to the line of John DeCree from CBRE. Please go-ahead.

John DeCree
Analyst at CBRE Securities

Hi, everyone. Congratulations on the quarter and another successful year. I wanted to ask about the gaming customer and the gaming volumes in Las Vegas in the 4Q. I think quite a bit stronger than we were expecting a table drop about flat and the slot handle was up nicely. I think MGM spoke to that as well. So curious if you could -- was that F1 customer kind of stable? Does the F1 customer play more slots? Or was it kind of strong slot volumes across the whole quarter? Just trying to get a sense of, was it a couple of events that maybe drove that slot volume or are you just seeing really good healthy play in slots all quarter and from your customer-base.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Yeah, it was not F1 in particular. It was broad-based -- broad-based strength across the quarter. And to us, it's indicative again of healthy demand, not just in the market, but for what we offer.

John DeCree
Analyst at CBRE Securities

Got it. Thanks, Craig. Maybe one on margin. Obviously, financing is now complete and you're already in-full speed ahead. But what are kind of major milestones we should think about between now and early 2027. I think topping off might be targeted for the end-of-the year. Just curious what we should keep our eye on in terms of major milestones from here. Thank you.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Yeah, you're right, topping off is towards the end of this year. And subsequent to that, we actually will be spending more time with the sell-side and interested buy-side folks on Win Almarjan and will likely be arranging a market trip. So that would probably be the next point at which you want to be on the lookout because it's important that folks understand really the amazing -- all the amazing things that are happening in the UAE and in Dubai in general, the prevalence of high-value food and beverage, of luxury hotels there and really the power of that market. So stay-tuned because we'll be -- we'll be dragging folks out there to the extent that they want to come.

John DeCree
Analyst at CBRE Securities

Fantastic. Thanks, Craig. I'll pack my back.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Thanks, John.

Operator

Next, we'll go to the line of David Katz from Jefferies. Please go-ahead.

David Katz
Analyst at Jefferies Financial Group

I'm calling shotgun. Look, I wanted to ask something just a little longer-term, right? Almarjan, you know, I think is starting to define itself. There is obviously discussion about whether New York is still a possibility. Can you just walk us across the field of other opportunities that you would seriously consider in lieu if New York did not happen or where you would turn your -- might it turn your attention next year?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Yeah. Sure. We're a little bit unique in that we build very big battleship style assets, right? We generally don't do small development. The US regional gaming market is -- is a tough market. The opportunities left there are primarily infill and you have the potential cannibalization of -- from online gaming. So I think the US regional market is tough.

So what do we have before us? We have Marjan, we have a land-bank in Marjan, a very substantial land-bank in Marjan, and we've seen the power of land banks in new markets, particularly in Macau in the mid-200s. We are active in Thailand, though it's early days. You're right, we're active in New York, but we won't be subject to Winter's curse in New York, and we're being very disciplined in terms of how we think about New York. And then we obviously have a very substantial land-bank here in Las Vegas. So we have years and years and years of growth ahead of us.

I often get asked, why aren't you moving on the land in Las Vegas right now? And the reality is that from a capital perspective, from a bandwidth perspective within our amazing design and development team, there are only so many things, frankly, that one can do at-once. And then of course, there are opportunities that come along that are time-bound, like if Thailand does move ahead, for example, you want to -- you want to make sure that you're in a position to participate. So we have a lot of opportunities.

Right now, we're very focused on Win Elmarjan. It's a brand-new market. You've seen the -- you've seen the research, you may have published yourself, David, the -- it's a $3 billion to $5 billion market and it's a tremendous opportunity for us. So that's where we're very focused at the moment.

David Katz
Analyst at Jefferies Financial Group

Understood. And if I can just follow-up, candidly I was thinking about Las Vegas. Given that the land has been part of the holdings for a while, maybe we could just talk a bit about the sort of puts and takes and how much do you think about sort of timing and wind's positioning there and what it would take to get that piece of land going?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Yeah. But timing has to be right for our global business, right? We -- we have to think about the entire -- the entire portfolio and make sure that we can execute it and execute it well. The market is just now absorbing capacity from two openings over the course of really the past four years, five years. And we have to make sure that we are in a position to do something that addresses on an adjacent a customer-base.

We obviously don't want to cannibalize ourselves and we don't want to create Win Las Vegas 2.0. So we need to make sure that we have our market positioning right and we have a very clear view of what that market positioning is. We've done early studies and early doodles, if you will, on what we think that land could hold. And at this point, I would say stay-tuned. Again, we would appreciate it if everyone was as focused on as we are because that is quite the opportunity and we'll see how we proceed from there.

David Katz
Analyst at Jefferies Financial Group

Okay. Thank you.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Sure.

Operator

Next, we'll go to the line of Robin Farley from UBS. Please go-ahead.

Robin Farley
Analyst at UBS Investment Bank

Great. Thanks. Some others in Vegas have talked about thinking they can grow EBITDA despite the tough comp with Super Bowl last year. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. I know obviously you have some renovation disruption at Encore and so maybe that's not how you would see it, but curious for your take on that?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Sure. Look, what I would say is excluding Super Bowl weekend, which again was an impossible comp, all of our key volume metrics are up year-over-year. If we look out, again, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, as we look-forward, we've got a great group room base at healthy ADRs. We've seen a very strong -- strong transient booking demand of late.

Actually, over the course of the past 10 days, seven of them have been higher than any booking rate over the past two years of daily room bookings. Retail sales were up 3% in January on incredibly tough comps in our in our building here. And our restaurant and banquets business is flat to last year despite the absence of Super Bowl. So we -- we don't give guidance, but we feel very good about where we are in the setup for 2025.

Robin Farley
Analyst at UBS Investment Bank

Okay. Thank you. And then just on Thailand, have you specified which entity would be pursuing something in Thailand?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

We have not, but I can tell you it would happen out of a subsidiary of Wind Resorts Limited, the US-listed it.

Robin Farley
Analyst at UBS Investment Bank

Okay, great. Thank you.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Sure.

Operator

Next, we'll go to the line of Dan Politzer from Wells Fargo. Please go-ahead.

Daniel Politzer
Analyst at Wells Fargo Securities

Hey, good afternoon, Craig and Julie. Thanks for taking my question. Another one, I guess asked a different way on Vegas, right? I mean, table drop, I think it was basically flat year-over-year relative to F1 and slot handle seems like it's accelerating.

Craig, I guess relative to three or six months ago, what do you feel like has fundamentally changed, if anything, because it certainly feels like there's a much more constructive tone here. Is it different customer-base or people coming back and spending more? What kind of -- what kind of do you see relative to kind of maybe prior conservatism.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Well, I don't think our tone, to be clear, I don't think our tone has changed much. I think we've been saying kind of the same thing for the past two years, which is trees don't go to the sky, but things look really good. So we've -- I mentioned at the outset of my prepared remarks, all the things that we have done over the course of the past three years to really strengthen our position in this market.

And certainly, you know to a certain extent, we go as Vegas goes, but we've been -- we've been outperforming -- we've been outperforming the market in general. You can see that on an EBITDA per room basis. And really that's across all of the different businesses that sit under this room. So I don't think a whole lot has changed. I think we have -- we have great demand across-the-board, and you can see that in our results.

Daniel Politzer
Analyst at Wells Fargo Securities

Craig, if I could add-on the spot side, we've actually made some material improvements. We've expanded our high limit room. We focused on the make-the-gains we offer our customers and we've really leaned into service. So when you look at what we're doing on the slot forward slot floor to drive that incremental, I would give it to the team and to win design and development. We're building a much better box and continuing to improve on what we do?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

That's a good point, Brian.

Daniel Politzer
Analyst at Wells Fargo Securities

Thank you. Got it. And then just turning to capital allocation, obviously, pretty active in the quarter in terms of the share repurchases and even into the first-quarter. I mean, is there a leverage threshold and through which to think about the amount of capital you would allocate here, is there a maximum you take it up to because it just seems like obviously, these levels, if you liked it at $91 in the 4th-quarter, you love it at $80.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

I think that that's the last portion of your question is a fair assessment. We don't publish leverage targets because we will lever in-place EBITDA to build new EBITDA. But what I would say is that our leverage levels now are very, very comfortable across the portfolio. Our fixed coupons relative to where rates are now give us incremental comfort. And so we're going to continue to support the stock while we're going to get -- while the getting is good, if you will, and we will continue to do that.

Julie, would you add anything?

Julie Cameron-Doe
Chief Financial Officer at Wynn Resorts

I think you covered it all.

Daniel Politzer
Analyst at Wells Fargo Securities

Thanks so much.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Sure.

Operator

Next, we'll go to the line of Steven Grambling from Morgan Stanley. Please go-ahead.

Stephen Grambling
Analyst at Morgan Stanley

Hi, thanks. Maybe a couple of follow-ups here. Here. Just one on the buyback, sounds like you've got obviously capacity on whatever that hypothetical upper bound is and maybe there is one when it's not buying or building a property. But if you don't get the response that you want and the stock kind of stays in-place? Are there other options you have or would you consider other alternatives to unlock underlying value?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Well, we're not buying back stock for an immediate market response. That's not what we're up to, right? We're buying back stock because we believe it's a good value in the long-term and we're thinking about the long-term. So that -- that's my response to the first portion of your question. We've talked many, many times before about the fact that we are not believers in OpCo, Propco and the sale of real-estate because we view it really as a financing transaction as opposed to unlocking value and the creation of value. So what we're going to do is continue to support the stock with buybacks while the value of Marjan crystallizes and while multiples remain suppressed.

Stephen Grambling
Analyst at Morgan Stanley

Makes sense. And then one other one. I may have missed this on the Vegas opex comments, but what are some of the mitigation factors that you did put in-place to offset some of the wage inflation we've been seeing? And how would you generally characterize net operating expense growth in 2025.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

You know, mitigation is as they say, a river of nickels. It's not one or two or three things that I could outline for you. It's a 100 different things. And when we do mitigation, we're very careful to make sure that the customer doesn't feel that. So I can't point to one or two particular things. In 2025, we have a much more modest increase in union related costs, we will figure out how to fade that.

And then depending upon what happens with inflation, what happens with tariffs, we could have an impact on some input costs, but that's primarily on the food and beverage side and that really comes down to procurement and sourcing and how we plan and manage our business. So I think it's -- hopefully, it's become clear kind of four or five years in now that we know-how to manage opex without damaging the brand.

Stephen Grambling
Analyst at Morgan Stanley

Fair enough. Thanks so much.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Sure.

Operator

Next, we'll go to the line of Steve from Stifel. Please go-ahead.

Steven Wieczynski
Analyst at Stifel, Nicolaus & Company

Yeah. Hey, hey guys, good afternoon. So Craig, if I can stay on opex, but switch-over to Macau, it came in a little better than what we were kind of thinking or kind of guessing where it would be. Can you maybe help us think about how you're -- how you're thinking about the cost structure for Macau this year and maybe kind of what you're thinking from an opex per day standpoint?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Yeah, sure. I'm not going to provide opex per day guidance. But what I would say is that very similar to Las Vegas. It's the -- it's the day-to-day hand-to-hand combat of managing -- managing opex, staffing, scheduling, et-cetera, etc. We've called out previously that opex can be impacted by some of the non-gaming programming that we -- that we have been doing over the course of the past couple of years. And so you can get a little bit of lumpiness from quarter-to-quarter, but really it comes down to extremely good management.

Steven Wieczynski
Analyst at Stifel, Nicolaus & Company

Thanks for that, Craig. And then second question, if I can go back to the buyback real quick and maybe ask the -- you asked this question a little bit differently. But just wondering how you -- how you're thinking about balancing the buyback versus with the stock here in the low 80s, let's Call-IT, buying back shares here versus investing capital in new projects? I'm just trying to get a sense for how you're -- how you're going about that today, Craig, if that makes sense.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Sure. Well, fortunately, we're in a position now from a liquidity perspective and a leverage perspective where we can -- we can do both. And so we obviously went on Marjan as well-planned. The budget -- a significant portion of the budget is bought-out. We know exactly where that's going to land and you saw us extremely active in Q4 and Q1 in the market from a buyback perspective.

You Julie mentioned the amount of system-wide liquidity that we have. And so really it comes down to incremental -- incremental new projects that we -- that we might take on. But even if we -- even if we did so, right, you have to imagine that from a design and development perspective, those take time. And so the capital spend for those is several years out.

So as I said again in my prepared remarks, while multiples remain suppressed, while much of the market -- much of the buy-side continues to look to a very select number of stocks to drive returns because they're benchmarked against those and we understand that. And until we get the realization of value for Marjan, we're in a position where we can and will buyback.

Steven Wieczynski
Analyst at Stifel, Nicolaus & Company

Got you. Thanks for that color, Craig. I appreciate it.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Thank you.

Operator

Next, we'll go to the line of Brant Montour from Barclays. Please go-ahead.

Brandt Montour
Analyst at Barclays Bank

Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. Just on Las Vegas, the refresh and the renovations. I was curious if you could just flesh out timing, sort of rooms out-of-service and the cadence of that work? And is this the kind of thing that we'll be calling out is quantifying any sort of disruption in a couple of quarters or do you think you can manage through it?

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Well, I'll start and then I'll ask -- I'll ask Ryan to comment as well. So, first of all, we do it in the depths of -- we generally do it in the depths of summer when we have the most flexibility and the most capacity. We try to do it in a way where we're essentially taking out three floors at a time, the floor that's being renovated and then the one above it and the one below it to minimize disruption. Brian, do you have anything you would add-in terms of potential EBITDA impact or rooms out-of-service.

Brandt Montour
Analyst at Barclays Bank

No, there may be a slight impact, but we're planning on launching this with WDD at the end-of-the summer and anticipating about a 12-month process to try to reduce the impact at all possible as much as we can. But it's multiple floors. And as Craig said, there's a couple of floors just to make sure that we can ensure the right level of service and minimal interruption to all of our fantastic guests.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

And when we -- during periods of peak demand, during obvious times when we should be in a position to run very-high occupancy, we'll cease the renovation work and essentially utilize the two floors in and around the floor that's being renovated. So the disruption, we won't -- we're not going to call-out the disruption specifically.

Brandt Montour
Analyst at Barclays Bank

Okay. That's super helpful. And then I want to ask a question about room rates. I understand that the view is that there hasn't been any sort of trend change maybe post-election. Obviously, the tone of you and your peers have gotten a little bit better post that event. But your room rates are sort of tied to the rest of the market. I'm curious if it felt like the fall -- in the fall, it was a little out there, maybe away from you and maybe things have gotten a little bit better into the new year. But any kind of commentary on the evolution of the sort of pricing power of the market as a whole over the last six months would be really helpful. Thank you.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Yeah, I don't think we're in a position to comment on the market as a whole because we're only 4,700 keys out of 150,000 keys. What I would say is that certainly in Q1, you're going to see in our reported Q1, you're going to see a decline in ADR, but that's really because of the Super Bowl. The Super Bowl run-rates are absolutely off the charts. The -- our pricing power throughout Q4 felt incredibly good. Good and continues to feel-good as we move into 2025.

Brandt Montour
Analyst at Barclays Bank

Great. Thanks, everyone.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Thank you.

Operator

Next, we'll go to the line of Chad Bynon from Macquarie. Please go-ahead.

Chad Beynon
Analyst at Macquarie Research

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question and thanks for putting up the slide deck. Wanted to direct the attention to Slide 20, where you lay out the capex projects in Macau, the concession arrangements here. Can you just kind of help us think about maybe some returns that you're planning on getting on these investments? The 2026 one is obviously much larger and that's much farther out in terms of thinking about the financial impact, but I'm just wondering how that kind of fits into the long-term growth strategy and how that brings in a premium customer at that point? Thanks.

Julie Cameron-Doe
Chief Financial Officer at Wynn Resorts

Thanks, Chad. I'll take this one. We've been talking for some time about the commitment we made with the concession. And obviously, we've made a commitment of $2.6 billion over the next 10 years. Given we hit the threshold there with $1.6 billion of that being capex. And we've laid out on Page 20 in the presentation, the big three items that we are -- that we're putting out here. And we we've made a lot of progress on the destination food, which is internal to Wind Palace, so didn't require us to seek the approvals for land-use.

The larger projects that we're doing that do require those approvals have -- we're still in that process of seeking those approvals. And that's one of the reasons that I've become a bit repetitive of giving my range of capex for those things. We've been very deliberate in how we've identified what we want to build-in Macau. We're very -- we're very focused on it staying within the Wind brand and very much wind IP focused. And so we're pleased with the projects that we've laid out here.

In terms of the ROI, I'm afraid it's still too early to get into specifics, you know, but you know, like I said, these projects are going to be completely consistent with our brand. And with the non-gaming elements that we've deployed really successfully in Vegas, our experience -- we've got great experience here in Vegas, proving that innovative, non-gaming amenitives drive really meaningful visitation to our properties and ultimately that drives long-term -- strong long-term returns for us and for our shareholders.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

If you look at what's been happening in Macau, so first of all, on the food hall that we'll be opening here shortly, historically at Palace, we have been light, if you will, on more casual dining options. And so it fits very well. And the way that we will be programming it, which will be somewhat innovative and we'll talk more about post opening, we believe that it will drive incremental footfall and incremental visitation in and of itself. The second trend that I think is clear in Macau is that entertainment really resonates and that entertainment drives market-share.

I think you can see amongst some of our competitors and again, admittedly, we don't have those facilities. You can see among some of our competitors there in Macau that when they program entertainment, they are able to drive incremental -- incremental market-share. And so if you look at what we are executing for our concession-related capex, it really is entertainment-centric and candidly, we're not surprised to see this play-out in Macau because we see it in Vegas all-the-time. So while we're not prepared to talk about specific ROI on any given project, we certainly are comfortable with the thesis that we will drive incremental revenue out of these facilities.

Chad Beynon
Analyst at Macquarie Research

Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. And then back-in Vegas, just wondering, obviously, your customers have a certain level of wealth where this probably doesn't impact them as much. But just given what's happened with FX recently and thinking about the breadth of your international customer-base during prior periods or just kind of looking at your database, do you think that FX will have any impact on visitation or spend or your customers just at a level where they're probably not thinking about small changes to their pocket books? Thank you.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

No, not at all. And in fact, if you go back-in time, if you go back to, I don't know, pick a year, 2017, the year that I joined the company. And you looked at backdrop relative to, you would see that we have done an incredibly good job of growing our business in domestic table games and in slots. And so international business, I don't believe will be impacted by FX, but we are less -- we are more diversified and less levered to international business than I think we've ever been in the history of the property actually.

Chad Beynon
Analyst at Macquarie Research

Thanks, Craig. Appreciate it.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Sure. Operator to the next question will be the last.

Operator

Yes. And our final question comes from Ben Chaiken from Mizuho. Please go-ahead.

Benjamin Chaiken
Analyst at Mizuho Securities

Hey, thanks for taking my questions. Craig, Julie. A few months ago, I guess there were some headlines related to the pace at which UAE will potentially allocate gaming licenses, which were very supportive of your positioning. I'm sure you guys are head-down. But any color or view on the pace of future competitors to the extent you've thought about it? And then one follow-up on. Thanks.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Sure. Yeah, we've talked about this on prior calls. We don't believe that every Emirate will avail themselves of a potential license by any means actually. And as we keep our ear to the ground with respect to what's going on, we don't believe that there is a even a deal struck frankly for a second license could be wrong, but we think we have pretty good intelligence. And so if you just think about the fact that we're opening in March of 2027, you think about the fact that it takes at a minimum four years to design -- design-and-build an integrated resort, you can imagine that we're going to have a very, very healthy lead.

And there's a lot of precedent in our industry if you look around regional markets in the US actually of first-to-market getting a lot of sticky database and being able to weather a new entrant. Beyond that, again, we provided the projections that we provided for assuming a second property. And in fact, I don't -- I don't think we would be all that fuss if there was a second property because we believe in the clustering effect and we believe that it would be good for the industry. But as of now, we don't see line-of-sight on that potential second license.

Benjamin Chaiken
Analyst at Mizuho Securities

That's very helpful. Appreciate it. And then how do you think -- just stepping back, how do you think about the most important customer cohorts? Obviously, the acquisition in London is telling, but I guess to dig a little further, is this an existing gambler or is it someone new who wants to pay for hotel and experiences and who may also gamble if given the opportunity. I mean, I mean, I'm sure to some degree, if you build it, they will come scenario. But I'm just trying to get a sense of how you think about marketing and distribution of the property. Thanks.

Craig Billings
Chief Executive Officer at Wynn Resorts

Yeah, it's a really good question. And my response would be how much time do you have? I guess if I had to really summarize it, what I would say is this, gaming globally is a question of supply-and-demand, really, really simple supply-and-demand. Gaming is a fundamental human behavior. And when supply-and-demand are out of balance, it's good to be an operator. When supply and demands are out of balance the other way, then only the strongest survive. And so for the casino component of the business, having the setup that we have being really the only integrated resort on this half of the planet is very, very beneficial for us and it's what makes us incredibly bullish.

The second thing I would say is that the propensity to spend on luxury hotel and on food and beverage in the Emirates is extremely high. And so we -- as you will see from the numbers that we produced at our Investor Day, we firmly believe that this business will be more akin to Vegas than it will be in Macau where we can drive material non-gaming -- non-gaming revenues. The last thing I would say is that you can think of the cohorts for this property really in three pieces. Has inbound visitation today, Call-IT by the point we open to 2 million folks per year in a market with relatively few amenities.

And so I would expect that we are going to get at least a single trip out of a large portion of those -- those folks that are already coming to. The second cohort would be those who live in Dubai, an incredibly bustling, very sophisticated place with extremely high GDP per-capita. And the third cohort are really destination luxury travelers, including gaming customers, and that's kind of our bread-and-butter. I mean anybody who is a high-value customer, particularly with the acquisition we did in London, anybody who's a high-value customer globally, we should know. And so our ability to attract those folks and bring them to win Almar Jan, I like our odds.

Benjamin Chaiken
Analyst at Mizuho Securities

Thanks, Greg. Appreciate it.

Julie Cameron-Doe
Chief Financial Officer at Wynn Resorts

Sure. Well, thank you, everybody, for your interest in Wind Resorts and that will be the conclusion of our Q4 earnings call. We look-forward to talking to you next quarter.

Operator

Thank you all for participating in the Wind Resorts 4th-quarter 2024 earnings call. That concludes today's conference. Please disconnect at this time and have a wonderful rest of your day.

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