Ryman Hospitality Properties Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
February 21, 2025

There are 12 speakers on the call.

Operator

Welcome to the Ryman Hospitality Properties Fourth Quarter twenty twenty four Earnings Conference Call. Hosting the call today from Ryman Hospitality Properties are Mr. Colin Reed, Executive Chairman Mr. Mark Fiavanti, President and Chief Executive Officer Ms. Jennifer Hutchison, Chief Financial Officer Mr.

Operator

Patrick Chaffin, Chief Operating Officer and Mr. Patrick Moore, Chief Executive Officer, Opry Entertainment Group. This call will be available for digital replay. The number will be (800) 723-1517 with no conference ID required. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen only mode.

Operator

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Ms. Jennifer Hutchison. Ma'am, you may begin.

Speaker 1

Good morning. Thank you for joining us today. This call may contain forward looking statements as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including statements about the company's expected financial performance. Any statements we make today that are not statements of historical fact may be deemed to be forward looking statements. Words such as believes or expects are intended to identify these statements, which may be affected by many factors, including those listed in the company's SEC filings and in today's release.

Speaker 1

The company's actual results may differ materially from the results we discuss or project today. We will not update any forward looking statements whether as a result of new information, future events or any other reason. We will also discuss non GAAP financial measures today. We reconcile each non GAAP measure to the most comparable GAAP measure in exhibits to today's release. I will now turn the call over to Colin.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Jen, and good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. As you saw from our earnings release last night, our fourth quarter results and consequently our full year results were marginally below the guidance ranges we provided in November, primarily due to factors that impacted our same store hospitality portfolio in the last two weeks of December. This was a little disappointing, but we were extremely delighted with the bookings production, which we see as an endorsement of our long term product transformation. Mark is going to talk about the quarter in more detail in a moment. But before that before I hand off to him, I want to take a step back and remind you all of the strategic rationale for our multi year transformational capital program.

Speaker 2

As we articulated during our Investor Day last year, we believe we've developed a strategy that gives us a unique advantage over other hospitality REITs. And as a consequence, we're committed to the long term positioning of our hotel assets to capture more of the extremely valuable premium group customer base. And one of the key differentiators of our business model is the ability to drive at least mid teens unlevered returns on incremental growth investments in our portfolio. It is clear from our results over the last several years that our focus on creating value for our customers is generating superior returns for our shareholders. We have more opportunities in front of us than ever before.

Speaker 2

In our hospitality business, we're making significant investments in Gaylord Opryland and Gaylord Rockies to attract this incrementally high rated corporate group business and induce higher outside of the room spending by expanding food and beverage capacity and sellable space. We have completed the lobby and rooms renovation of the Gaylord Palms, which is now essentially a brand new product. And in fact, Mark and I were there yesterday with our board. And I got to tell you, it's without question the best piece of work I think we've done as a company. It really is tremendous.

Speaker 2

And in 2025, we will embark on renovating the rooms at the Gaylord Texan. In our entertainment business, our major construction projects are just back online, and the country music and lifestyle category is stronger than ever. Category 10, the venue we designed under our brand partnership with Luke Combs, opened its stores in early November, followed by a new rooftop that opened just this week. And the transformational rooms and public space renovation at the W. Austin Hotel was completed at the end of last year.

Speaker 2

Furthermore, last month, we made a strategic investment in a leading independent music festival business, Southern Entertainment, which creates a scalable platform for live music experiences more broadly and enables us to connect with even more country music fans. And we're excited about the brand activation opportunity behind Opry one hundred, which we think will pay dividends in the years to come. No question, some of these investments are disruptive in the near term. However, we remain awfully encouraged by the pace of bookings and the way the meeting community is responding to our capital plans, thus resulting in record number of group room nights on the books for all future years in our hotel business. And the enthusiasm for the Country Lifestyle segment in The U.

Speaker 2

S. And globally is tremendous. Our customers are embracing our investments, reinforcing our conviction in our long term strategy. And finally, let's not overlook the incredible results we were able to deliver in the full year of 2024. Despite the disruption I just mentioned, consolidated revenue growth of 8%, consolidated adjusted EBITDAre growth of 10% and adjusted funds from operation or AFFO growth of 12%.

Speaker 2

Our last comment one last comment I would make. For those of you who attended our Investor Day last year that I referenced just a couple of minutes ago, you may recall, we projected out a few years to show you what we thought was possible as we transform our physical assets. We said at the time that we felt our consolidated strategy could yield adjusted EBITDAre in the range of $900,000,000 to $1,000,000,000 in 2027. Now, as we sit here today, despite the political upheaval that we're all witnessing, high interest rates and high inflation rates, we believe that our strategies and capital projects have us well on track to achieving the goals we set out a year ago. The future has never been brighter and we appreciate your ongoing support.

Speaker 2

And with that, I'll turn over to Mark to talk you through the quarter.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Colin, and good morning, everyone. I'm going to focus my remarks on the fourth quarter, and then I'll hand it over to Jennifer to discuss our guidance for 2025 as well as our review of our financial position. For the fourth quarter, consolidated revenue increased 2% compared to last year, consolidated adjusted EBITDAre increased 1% and AFFO increased 4%. As Colin mentioned, these results were below our expectations and the expectations implied by the full year guidance ranges. Leisure demand primarily at Gaylord Texan and to a lesser extent Gaylord Oculean did not materialize as expected during the peak holiday period in the last two weeks of December.

Speaker 3

Historically, our holiday transient business is highly concentrated and those last two weeks account for nearly 40% of leisure room nights in the fourth quarter and nearly 40% of total ice admissions. Additionally, the booking window is very short with approximately 60% of sales occurring within seven days of travel. When compared to last year, fourth quarter leisure room nights at the Gaylord Texan were down 19% and at the Gaylord Aqua Land were down 6%, and most of this decline occurring during those last two weeks. Our forecast anticipated some year over year softness in those markets. As we know, our older ICE teams like Rudolph historically underperformed our newer themes like the Polar Express.

Speaker 3

But ultimately, we were surprised by the magnitude of the underperformance, which we attribute to some combination of consumer price sensitivity, normalization of post COVID demand relative to 2023 and general macroeconomic uncertainty. The shortfall drove the majority of the variance to the midpoint of our prior guidance range for adjusted EBITDAre for same store hospitality. Now let me share several bright spots in what was a strong quarter. The same store hospitality business generated fourth quarter revenue of approximately $496,000,000 the second best quarter ever and second only to the fourth quarter of last year. ADR increased approximately 2% compared to last year to $265 a new quarterly record with growth in both group and leisure rate.

Speaker 3

As has been the case all year long, Banquet and AV revenue in the quarter was strong, up approximately 5% compared to last year with higher contribution per group room night. Both Gaylord Rockies and Gaylord National achieved milestones in the fourth quarter. The Rockies delivered record revenue in the month of December, driven by strong ICE performance and the positive reception to the completely transformed Grand Lodge and our new food and beverage offerings. Gaylord National achieved adjusted EBITDAre margin expansion of 60 basis points despite wage increases associated with its recently negotiated CBA that went into effect in early November. And as a result, the property delivered record full year adjusted EBITDAre surpassing the prior year record.

Speaker 3

The prior year record. The JW Hill Country was another bright spot in the fourth quarter, delivering RevPAR and total RevPAR growth of 14% to 27%, respectively, driven by a successful ICE programming debut. Consistent with our investment thesis, ICE induced incremental leisure demand in a previously low occupancy period for the hotel. In the fourth quarter, leisure room nights were up 29% year over year and revenue and total RevPAR index share as measured by Star relative to its regional competitive set increased nine and thirty two points respectively. While profitability was modestly below our expectations due to increased marketing costs associated with our first year of ICE programming, adjusted EBITDAre increased 13% year over year.

Speaker 3

We continue to be very bullish on the long term potential of holiday programming at this asset. Fourth quarter bookings production was thus standout for the fourth quarter and the full year. In the fourth quarter, the sales team booked a record 1,300,000 same store growth group room nights for all future years, surpassing the prior year record by approximately 5% at a fourth quarter record ADR of $284 Fourth quarter room night production comprised 44% of full year bookings. For the full year, the sales team booked 2,900,000.0 same store gross group room nights for all future years at a record ADR of $282 As a result, projected same store gross group rooms revenue for all future years was also a record. For the JW Hill Country, the sales team booked 79,000 gross group room nights in the fourth quarter for all future years, an increase of approximately 57% year over year and 214,000 gross group room nights in the full year for all future years.

Speaker 3

As of December 31, same store group rooms revenue on the books for 2025, '20 '20 '6 and 2027 were up 3%, eleven % and ten %, respectively, compared to the same time last year for twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five and 2026. ADR on the books were 4%, six % and six point five % ahead of the same time last year for the same period, and occupancy on the books was 50 points, 44 points and 37 points, again for the same period. As a reminder, we strive to enter a year with approximately 50 points of occupancy on the books. Within that context, we're right where we want to be coming into 2025. Going forward, we intend to discuss bookings production and group business on the books on a total portfolio basis inclusive of the JW Hill Country.

Speaker 3

As of December 31, group pace for the total portfolio is largely consistent with that of the same store portfolio. Turning now to our Entertainment business. In the fourth quarter, OEG reported record revenue of $98,000,000 an increase of approximately 12% year over year. Adjusted EBITDAre increased approximately 6% as profitability was impacted by construction disruption. Performance was led by Old Red Las Vegas, which continues to exceed our expectations.

Speaker 3

With the major capital investments in this business nearly complete, our Ocrey one hundred programming underway and our expansion into the music festivals business through our recent investment in Southern Entertainment, OEG is poised to deliver meaningful growth in 2025 and beyond. Beyond. Before I turn it over to Jennifer to discuss our guidance for 2025, I want to take a moment to reflect on the progress to date against the 2027 outlook we outlined at our Investor Day last year. Critical to achieving that outlook is the successful execution of our capital investment program, which we believe will continue to enhance our competitive advantage and induce incremental premium group demand over time. Also critical to that success is our ability to manage disruption throughout the construction period.

Speaker 3

To that end, we've continued to make improvements to our design and construction processes and we have increased investment in our design and construction resources and capabilities. Setting aside the labor market challenges we encountered in Orlando, our team has delivered our major projects at Gaylord Rockies and Gaylord on time, on budget and within our expectations for disruption. Looking ahead to 2025, early indications from the meeting space expansion project at Gaylord Opryland and the rooms renovation project at Gaylord Texan suggest we're trending favorably. In summary, we remain focused on delivering the asset improvements that will enable us to meet the 2027 outlook we outlined at our Investor Day last year. And while modestly more disruptive in the near term than originally anticipated, the positive reception from our meeting planners that is showing up in our future bookings gives us confidence that this is the right thing for us to do for the business long term.

Speaker 3

Now let me turn it over to Jennifer to discuss our outlook for 2025, our balance sheet and liquidity position.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Mark. Our outlook for 2025 assumes a stable macro environment consistent with current trends. For the Hospitality segment, inclusive of the JW Hill Country, we expect RevPAR growth of 2.25% to 4.75%. We expect total RevPAR growth of 1.75% to 4.25% and adjusted EBITDAre of $675,000,000 to $715,000,000 These ranges reflect the estimated impact of construction disruption, including a two fifty basis points to three fifty basis point impact to RevPAR, a 200 basis points to 300 basis points impact to total RevPAR and a $30,000,000 to $35,000,000 impact to adjusted EBITDAre. The increase in our profitability disruption estimate compared to 2024 is primarily due to the larger scope of renovation for the Opryland meeting space during 2025.

Speaker 1

Our outlook for total RevPAR growth also reflects modestly lower outside the room spending levels from group relative to 2024 due to a higher mix of association business on the books in 2025 compared to 2024. This is a natural outcome from time to time given the size of booking patterns of association meetings. Normalizing for the impact of disruption in both years, the midpoint of the range assumes modest growth in both group and leisure range revenue relative to 2024. The low end of the range reflects additional conservatism around leisure demand, as well as some conservatism around government related group business. And the high end of the range reflects potential upside from leisure across the portfolio.

Speaker 1

For the entertainment segment, we expect adjusted EBITDAre of $110,000,000

Speaker 4

to

Speaker 1

$120,000,000 The range reflects the ramp up of our recent investments in Block 21 and Category 10 and a range of modest first year outcomes for Southern Entertainment. We are not assuming material growth in the Grand Ole Opry in 2025 due to the investments we're making as part of the Opry one hundred brand activation. Taken together, we expect consolidated adjusted EBITDA REs of $749,000,000 to $8.00 $1,000,000 AFFO to common shareholders and unitholders of $510,000,000 to $555,000,000 and AFFO per diluted share of $8.24 to $8.86 Let me remind you of a couple of modeling items. First, we expect the timing of the Easter holiday to shift business out of the second quarter in '20 '20 '5 and into the first quarter. We're still booking groups into these patterns, but we estimate the magnitude of the shift could be a two fifty to three fifty basis point benefit to total hospitality RevPAR growth in the first quarter.

Speaker 1

Second, we remind you of the Tennessee franchise tax refunds related to prior years, which we recognized as a one time benefit in the second quarter of twenty twenty four. The impact to hospitality business at that time was approximately $5,600,000 and the impact to the entertainment business was approximately $3,400,000 And third, results for Southern Entertainment will be consolidated in our financial results. And as I noted earlier, our adjusted EBITDAre range for the Entertainment segment does reflect a modest contribution from Southern Entertainment. And finally, note that we've included an additional schedule to the guidance reconciliation tables that more clearly outlines the 2025 guidance calculations for AFFO per diluted share, accounting for the theoretical conversion of the OEG put rights. Now turning to our balance sheet.

Speaker 1

We ended the year with $478,000,000 of unrestricted cash on hand and our $700,000,000 revolving credit facility was undrawn. OEG's eighty million dollars revolving credit facility had a balance of $21,000,000 outstanding. Taken together, our total available liquidity was approximately $1,200,000,000 net of approximately $4,000,000 of outstanding letters of credit. We retained an additional $99,000,000 of restricted cash available for FS and E and other maintenance projects. In December, we repriced our corporate term loan B, reducing the applicable interest rate margin by 25 basis points.

Speaker 1

At the end of the quarter, our net leverage ratio based on total consolidated net debt to adjusted EBITDAre was 3.9 times. We continue to have the flexibility and liquidity to support our capital allocation priorities and the continued growth of our business. To that end, we are pleased to announce the declaration of our first quarter dividend of $1.15 payable on 04/15/2025, to shareholders of record as of 03/31/2025. It remains our intention to continue to pay 100% of our re taxable income through dividends. Finally, as Mark noted, 2025 is another pivotal year on the capital investment front.

Speaker 1

In 2024, we invested $4.00 $8,000,000 in our business. In 2025, we expect to invest capital of approximately $400,000,000 to $500,000,000 primarily at Gaylord Aquri Land and Gaylord Texan. We provided much more detail on the capital projects we've announced in our earnings release. So with that, operator, let's open it up for questions.

Operator

We'll take our first question from Ari Klein with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 5

Thank you, Evan, and good morning. Maybe can you talk a little bit about the renovations planned beyond the current one and what the timing of some of those could look like? And then maybe related to that, are the renovation headwinds that we're seeing in 'twenty five likely to be the peak?

Speaker 2

Patrick, you want to do that? Sure.

Speaker 6

Good morning. We are already substantially through some work at Gaylord Opryland around the Presidential Ballroom and the associated spaces. The ballroom itself is complete and now we're working through some of the associated spaces around it. That will be completed in June of this year. We have begun work on the space expansion at Gaylord Opryland that will continue through into 2027.

Speaker 6

So that work has just begun and that has been comprehended in what Jennifer already shared. We're continuing work on the sports bar events lawn and group pavilion in the Magnolia Courtyard at Gaylord Opryland. That will be completed either right at the end of this year or in the first quarter of twenty twenty six. We're just watching the weather just to determine how that impact will play out. And then we'll begin the renovation of our room product at Gaylord Texan in the second quarter of this year and we'll complete that roughly in the second quarter of next year.

Speaker 5

And just on the headwinds that we're seeing in 2025, is that is it kind of a peak level you think? Or just given some of the longer term plans, maybe that increases?

Speaker 6

Yes. I would say that from a disruption perspective, what we've communicated thus far is that we think it's comparable to what we saw in 2024. There's a lot more volume going through in 2025, but we don't expect us to face some of the same headwinds that we saw at the Gaylord Palms room renovation in 2024. So more volume, but about the same amount of disruption year over year.

Speaker 5

Okay. And then just on the higher mix of association business in 'twenty five impacting out of room spend. Curious what that mix looks like in the group bookings in 'twenty six and 2027 and if maybe we see that trend kind of revert in those years?

Speaker 6

Yes. We are moving towards a higher mix of corporate in 2026. Obviously, we still have a lot of business to book into that period of time. But we do see a higher mix of corporate in 2026 based on what's on the books right now. I would point out though that even with the higher mix of association in 2025, our rate on the books from a group perspective is very, very healthy and shows solid growth.

Speaker 6

So not all generally speaking, corporate has better spend outside the room and is a higher premium customer. But we're doing a better and better job of attracting the most premium association groups. And so I'm very encouraged by what's on the books and how we'll see that play out this year.

Speaker 3

Hey, Ari, just one thing back on disruption. As it relates to the Opryland Room meeting space expansion, this first phase this year is the most disruptive as the demolition occurs. So as we roll into 2026, as that project will continue, it will be less disruptive to ongoing business because you'll have less you'll have less noise interrupting groups.

Speaker 6

And less connecting of the building. Yes.

Operator

We'll take our next question from Smriti Rose with Citi. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 7

Hi. Thank you. I wanted to ask you a little bit about your labor and wage costs, maybe how much do they increase in 2024 and how much are you baking in for 2025?

Speaker 6

Hey, Smedes, this is Patrick. Good morning to you. Yes, we saw wages specifically year over year, we saw about 3.3% increase and we're baking in about the same amount, but we did incorporate the full year impact of our collective bargaining agreement with Gaylord National and the union there. So, we take that into account, but 3% to 4% expense increase is what we're expecting on the wage and labor front.

Speaker 2

And paid basically the same in our entertainment business too. We took big increases back in 'twenty three, 'twenty two and 'twenty three.

Speaker 6

We did. I mean, to Colin's point, we're up at the end of 'twenty four, we're up about 34% in the hotel business in terms of wages. But the most important thing is our wage margin has remained flat. So we're very proud of our ability to manage the productivity levels to offset the increase in wages.

Speaker 7

Thanks. And then I just wanted to ask you, you've talked about record bookings on all future roommates, etcetera. And just any sort of change in the profile of who's booking? Are you seeing pickups in associations or trade shows or is it sort of typical mix or any kind of

Speaker 8

color you can provide there?

Speaker 6

Yes. I would tell you that part of this investment thesis that we've embarked on is our ability to remix hotels like Gaylord Opryland towards a higher mix of the premium corporate business. And I'm really proud of what the Opryland team has been doing. In terms of what they booked in the fourth quarter and throughout 2024, Opryland achieved the highest growth in ADR of any of our hotels. They are doing a great job of remixing that hotel towards a higher level of corporate.

Speaker 6

We will always need association business and we highly value it. In fact, in the DC market, we're trying to get a little bit more association in place because that market just has seen some challenges for the past few years and our way of offsetting that is securing more association business long term. But across the brand, we have been seeing a higher mix towards corporate and a lot of that is a result of the investments we've been making that makes it more palatable for those groups come to us.

Speaker 3

But regardless of the segment, we're moving to higher rate groups.

Speaker 6

Absolutely. Yes. And we've intentionally walked away from a few groups in order to achieve those higher rates and said

Speaker 8

this is the investment thesis and this

Speaker 6

is the product we have. If you can't afford it, we understand that. But some groups have said, okay, we're going elsewhere, and then they come back and said, no, we want to we'll pay the higher rate to continue to enjoy this experience.

Speaker 2

And groups that have been with us for twenty years. That's right.

Speaker 8

All right. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Mades.

Operator

We'll take our next question from Duane Pfennigwerth with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 9

Hey, thank you. Good morning. Just wondering with respect to the ICE results at Texan and Opryland, is that a typically a local market demand or is that drive to leisure? Do you think there was a trend change in those local markets? Or is this more about ICE programming?

Speaker 9

And do you think that could evolve next year?

Speaker 3

Well, it is more local and very short drive in demand. What's unique about the Christmas Leisure guest is that it is a much shorter length of stay than our summer guest, but they spend two times the amount on property. So, it is a short duration, higher cost activity for the leisure guest. So, what we saw this year was those admissions were flat in terms of guests attending ICE, but what we saw was a decrease in the overnight stay. So, some of it looks like it was potentially the lower rated customer trading down from an overnight stay to just a day visit.

Speaker 3

But we're doing some work around that now to try to understand exactly what the behavior was as it relates to those customers.

Speaker 9

Yes. If I may,

Speaker 2

Duane, this is Colin. Good morning. I want to just add something here because I read a few reports here this morning that sort of highlights our results as sort of leisure weakness. I want to put this in perspective. In 'nineteen, these five of our big hotels in 'nineteen did about 100 just under $150,000,000 in revenue in the month of December.

Speaker 2

In the last year, not 'twenty four, 'twenty three, we did about $200,000,000 It was up 34% from 'nineteen to 'twenty three, basically all leisure business. And in 'twenty four, we did about $192,000,000 slightly below last year. But these are spectacular numbers. And so, ICE is one component of it. Over the years, we've built live shows, we do dinner shows, we have kids areas, we have massive indoor pool complexes that drives this leisure business.

Speaker 2

This is very, very strong business. The weakest of these five hotels did about $1,000,000 a day in revenue in the month of December. And Opryland, two thousand eight hundred and eighty rooms, did $1,750,000 a day in basically in leisure business in the month of December. So, our leisure business is not weak. Our leisure business is very strong in the month of December.

Speaker 2

It's just that it wasn't quite as strong as we thought it was going to be. And that will happen in the last couple of weeks. And we get to the bottom of that. Is it pricing? Is it the consumer is just a little fatigued?

Speaker 2

And my guess is maybe a little bit of both, and we will figure that out. But our leisure business is very strong.

Speaker 6

Yes. I will tell you just to add to that. We did some primary research with the ICE consumers as they were exiting ICE. We did see a lot more economic sensitivity. Now as a result of that, we softened up and played around a bit with our yielding strategies.

Speaker 6

We did not see a dramatic improvement in volume sold as a result of lowering price. And so we went back to where we stood from a pricing perspective. Our takeaway from that is there's just a lot of uncertainty and a lot of sensitivity. And so folks were just making decisions to spend less in some of those lower tiered value consumers. And it wasn't that we had priced out of their

Speaker 9

momentum with corporates, any particular industries that stick out? Thanks for taking the questions.

Speaker 6

Yes, I would say that we are very interested in financial and tech and are doubling our efforts to go after some of that. But we've seen growth across a lot of industries. And so I wouldn't beyond those two, I wouldn't say there's anything that really stands out.

Speaker 9

Thank you.

Speaker 3

Thank you.

Operator

We'll take our next question from Doreen Kassem with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 10

Thanks. Good morning. After the Opryland meeting space expansion announcement, are there more announcements like this in the background that you're considering? Or is the CapEx plan that you laid out at the Investor Day through 2027 pretty baked in at this point?

Speaker 3

Maybe.

Speaker 2

I mean, the way we think about this stuff, Dore, is we don't wake up and sort of say, you know what, we need to expand this hotel. We look at the demand characteristics of each of our physical assets. We look at things like turndowns. We look at all of the activity amongst the meeting planning community. And here's the good news as we've talked about this morning is that we are building a lot of forward demand into this business.

Speaker 2

And if that forward demand continues to accelerate, there will probably be additional rooms expansions that we will have to and meeting space we'll have to contemplate. And I think we've said many times before, Mark, when we bought Hill Country, we didn't buy Hill Country to have it as approximately 1,000 room hotel ten years from now. We believe in inducing demand into that market. And at some point in time, we will pull the trigger. But we're in a very, very interesting and exciting, I frankly tell you, this is a very exciting time for this company because we are building really strong forward demand because of the unique capabilities of our hotels.

Speaker 2

And I think this will give us the opportunity to deploy more capital at high rates of return over the years to come.

Speaker 3

Yes. I think it's fair to say that all enhancements are not created equal in terms of construction disruption. Adding rooms is less disruptive than, say, renovating all of your meeting space because when you take meeting space out of inventory, you obviously can't sell into groups. So Colin is right. We look at every hotel in terms of how do we drive incremental profitability, be that through additional rooms, through renovations or through new food and beverage options, etcetera.

Speaker 3

And then we'll consider the disruption as part of the returns analysis based on the type of project.

Speaker 6

Dory, one of the beauties of this new space expansion at Gaylord Opryland is once that's open and you have brand new space, it allows you to take what would have been seen as disruption in the past and absorb it into that new space to get Tennessee Ballroom renovated and the Delta Ballroom renovated. So there's definitely an agenda with getting this built as quickly as possible so that we can not create additional disruption when we need to do other renovations at that hotel.

Speaker 1

Yes. And Dorey, I think the only other project that was on the page that we've talked about in recent years in addition to what everyone else has mentioned is the Rockies expansion. I think that's always been in the background of something we view as part of the long term view, but there's still a few things to work through on the design and other issues.

Speaker 2

And I would say we're probably nearer today to that one than we were twelve, eighteen months ago, simply because of what we've been able to accomplish with the complete beautification of that Grand Lodge and the food and beverage. And the impact that we're seeing on those investments that we've made have got us pretty excited about Colorado.

Speaker 6

Yes. We've just got some administrative political issues to work through there.

Speaker 10

But it's thank you for all that. It's fair to say though that with the Rockies expansion, that's relative it's relatively not disruptive though, just given that's off to

Speaker 6

Yes. Dory, that's very fair because you're talking about a building that has only one connection point to the main building and essentially that work can do be done almost in complete isolation from the rest of the hotel.

Speaker 10

Okay, got it. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Operator

We'll take our next question from Chris Darling with Green Street. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 11

Thank you. Good morning. A couple of questions for you on the Gaylord National. First, what's your expectation for performance in 2025? And then secondly, how reliant is that property on the local DC market in terms of demand generation?

Speaker 11

Just wondering if there's any risk maybe with some of the government efficiency initiatives and how that may or may not impact that property going forward?

Speaker 1

I know Patrick is going to pull up some additional details on that, but we don't generally provide guidance by property level. We can give you some directional color.

Speaker 2

The forward bookings on national for this year, next year and the year after look pretty good.

Speaker 6

Yes. As I mentioned earlier, we do see and are concerned with what's going on from a government perspective, and we've been trying to pivot away from that business as much as possible. I would say we have minimal exposure as we move through 2025. We've already looked at what's on the books and take a look at that. And we are trying to mix it towards a higher level of because we do think that there's some short term demand generation challenges in that market.

Speaker 6

So I wouldn't say there's an over reliance on the local market. There's certainly not from a transient perspective that hotel runs a much higher percentage of group business than our other hotels simply because we found that there's greater strength in being able to drive from the group side. But we believe that national just finished an incredibly strong year in terms of performance and we'll continue that trend.

Speaker 3

Okay. It's okay. Chris, it's fair to say that all the headlines we're seeing now around some of the political changes that are occurring, we're considering that across the portfolio as we think about group exposure and what business we either have on the books or we're pursuing and how it might affect their behavior.

Speaker 11

Okay. That's all helpful thoughts. And then I have a bit of a nuanced question. There may not be a lot here, but I'll ask it anyway. You mentioned you come into this year expecting lower out of room spend or a little bit lower out of room spend because of the group mix shift.

Speaker 11

I wonder with that dynamic in place, what's your ability to sort of manage your expense structure around that? Is there anything to read into about that?

Speaker 6

Well, I mean, obviously, it there that is a high margin piece of our business, but that's been taken into account in the guidance that we've provided and there are other levers that we pull to try and offset maybe a mix shift from corporate towards association. To my point earlier, we do see the room rate on the books is in very strong position and our sales teams do an excellent job of when they're ninety days out or thirty days out from a group arriving of trying to upsell every single group to try and drive additional spend outside the room. But generally, we have a number of levers that we put into place to try and offset that and to maintain our margin or even grow it.

Speaker 1

And just to put this in context too, I mean, the association mix that we're seeing on the books is comparable to what we've seen in prior periods. We just had a really strong mix of corporate in 2024 as well. So it's just again to put the context put all of that in context.

Speaker 3

Yes, it is not a dramatic shift. And the thing I was going to add is that one of the advantages of the group business is that with the forward visibility of their activities from a labor scheduling standpoint, it gives you some advantages because you know where that group is going to be, are they going to be in the outlets, are they going to be in the banquet meeting rooms. And so, it allows you to more appropriately staff for the volumes.

Speaker 6

I mean, we just traveled a very large association through Gaylord Opryland this past weekend. And the initial preliminary figures coming back is that the group achieved a historic level of attendance significantly even outpacing what they did last year, which was historic. And as a result, we saw rises in parking, food and beverage outlets, catering across the board. So, again, association business generally

Speaker 2

is not to the same level

Speaker 6

of premium as corporate. But if we see the kind of performance that we saw this weekend from one of the groups that traveled through Opryland, that bodes well for us.

Speaker 2

Let me take a minute here, if I could. And I'm going to do something here, Patrick, that's going to surprise you. I'm going to compliment you and your team. But the other thing that I feel very, very good about our team here, we play we don't play a passive role with our manager. We play a very active role with our manager.

Speaker 2

Patrick and his team literally in these hotels, I mean, basically daily, managing with the managers the cost structure of these businesses. And that's one of the reasons why I think over the last two, three years that we've had very good results around margin, even with wage pressures that we experienced in 'twenty two and 'twenty three. And I will complement our asset management team. So when we see these mix shifts, we are bringing this to the attention to the leadership of each of these hotels to make sure that we're adjusting our cost structures so that we do not see dilution in our EBITDA margins. Yes.

Speaker 3

I mean, to your point, Colin, we had 2.1% same store revenue growth last year and we grew margins 30 basis points.

Speaker 2

Yes. And that's because of the I don't think it's because of the brilliance of our manager. I think it's a combination of the work that Patrick and his team do daily in the managing of the cost structures of these businesses. So that was a compliment, Patrick.

Speaker 6

Thank you. And to Colin's point, there are levers that we pull to maintain the margin on the bottom line. And we've already taken significant steps to get ahead of any risk that we foresee for this year and impact the bottom line in a positive way to help ourselves out in achieving our goals.

Speaker 2

Does that help with Chris? Yes.

Speaker 11

I was going to very helpful comments. I appreciate all the color there. Thank you.

Speaker 3

Thank you.

Operator

We'll take our next question from Jay Kornreich with Wedbush Securities. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 8

Hi. Thanks so much. I wanted to ask about just the pace of group revenue in the books for 2026 being up 11%, which I believe you said reflects EDR growth of 4.5%. So I'm curious as we get closer to 2026 and you're able to book into many of the finished CapEx projects and you've outlined a rate driven strategy. Do you think there's opportunity to push that 4.5% rate growth even higher?

Speaker 3

Yes, certainly there is. Keep in mind, when you look at where revenue on the books is relative to prior years, as we approach the travel date, right, we're moving towards 50 points of occupancy on the books. So as we enter a year, typically the differential in revenue on the books is going to be purely rate typically. But that's the opportunity. The opportunity is to continue to push that rate and grow that 6% higher as we move towards the year.

Speaker 3

Because as the booking window shortens, you're also going to book more and more corporate business, which typically travels at a higher rate.

Speaker 6

And just to add to that, I would tell you that the hotels are going through right now because they are ahead and more aggressively what we call cutting the group room blocks, which is lowering the expectations of how much will travel, so that they free up more space and more rooms to sell into. And with that compression, they can sell at higher rates. So they are all over it. Revenue management is working to use that compression to drive more room nights and higher rates.

Speaker 8

All right. Appreciate that. That's helpful. And then just one more on the Entertainment segment. You made a number of significant strides over the past year, opening up the Old Rev Las Vegas, repositioning to Category 10, major renovation at Block 21.

Speaker 8

So just curious if you have any other material investment or expansion plans over the next year or two that you can highlight on the entertainment side?

Speaker 7

The thing that we're most excited about is our investment in Southern Entertainment as another live venue opportunity. And that's a really sort of an effective platform for light sort of capital intensity and provides access to really interesting entertainment market destinations, pardon me, and a fan base that complements our existing fan base across the Ryme and the Opry And Austin City Limits in Austin, Texas.

Speaker 3

I would say, Jay, it is fair to say that there are a number of things that we're working on that basically at this point, Todd, we're not prepared to talk about. But there are a lot of different opportunities that we're looking at as it relates to that business.

Speaker 2

I think the challenge is really more prioritization of what opportunity we focus on.

Speaker 8

Okay. I understand. Thank you.

Speaker 9

Thank you.

Operator

We'll take our next question from Chris Woronka with Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 9

Hey, good morning, everyone. Thanks for squeezing me in on the questions. So I guess maybe we're beating a horse that we didn't expect to be beating. But if I can kind of go back to the corporate, you're making all these investments partly to attract a more premium corporate group customer, right? I guess, is there any way to frame up how that, I guess, ideal premium corporate customer looks like versus association or even a kind of a non premium corporate group, whether it's size or length of stay or rate or out of room spend?

Speaker 9

And if it's smaller, does that do we have to think about it being harder potentially to fill some of these leisure weekend spots or are there more shoulder periods? Any color you can add would be great. Thank you.

Speaker 6

Hey, Chris. This is Patrick. So, let's see the couple of things that you mentioned. Corporate rate is generally higher. It's hard to put in a specific percentage or number on that.

Speaker 6

Just generally on average, it is higher. Outside the room spend though is significantly higher with many of those corporate groups. We've seen levels of $500 or $600 per person spend outside of the room per day with some of these corporate customers. And so that is a tremendously strong number. To the size question, they're not materially different.

Speaker 6

You would think that well your associations are going to be massive. There's lots of different corporate customers, lots of different group sizes, but there are a lot of corporate groups out there that are very large and are growing and are constantly encouraging us to grow with them. I can think of three of our top customers who are constantly asking me, when are you going to expand Opryland, when are you going to expand National, when they're constantly looking for us to expand further because they have more of their book of business they would like to turn over to us. They are extremely valuable to us. And so, it is generally a higher rate.

Speaker 6

It is usually a very solid outside the room spend. But from a sizing perspective, there's really no difference because there is such a large universe of groups that you can choose from.

Speaker 2

Our purchase of Hill Country as well has helped us sort of think about the opportunity here with this higher rated corporate business. Because when you look at the rate differential between what is being accomplished in that hotel versus our existing hotels, there's quite a bit of difference. And that is exciting stuff for us.

Speaker 3

I think it's important, Chris, just to recognize that what we're talking about is we're talking about incremental change, change at the margin. We're not talking wholesale change. They'll continue we'll continue to have a substantial book of association business. And I also think it's important to repeat that our goal here is to move the rate across all of our segments and to attract and drive and sell to higher rated business, whether that's corporate business, association business or smurf business.

Speaker 6

Yes. What this really comes down to is us increasing our skill and capability at stacking groups in with one another, so that they still feel that they have a unique experience, but that we fill the house in a more optimal

Speaker 2

way. And we at the end of the day, we have such a small share of this market. And we're retaining so many of our customers, and that's what's driving these expansions to move our share up marginally. This is a very interesting time for us.

Speaker 9

Yes. Chris, any other questions? No. I really appreciate all that color. Very helpful.

Speaker 9

Thanks, guys.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Mike.

Operator

We'll take our We'll take our next question from John DeCree with CBRE.

Speaker 8

Maybe just one question. I think in prepared remarks, Jennifer, you talked a little bit about some of the conservatism that's built into the low end of the guidance. I'm curious if you could talk to some of the variables that you think about that might get you to the high end of the guidance to manage some of that as just leader in economic variation to expectations, but maybe there's some ability to manage disruption. So, yes, that's my question. That's all.

Speaker 8

Thank you.

Speaker 1

No, I think you hit it on all the areas that we identified that could drive the potential upside and a lot of that is

Speaker 10

books.

Speaker 1

And to the extent that we can see better performance from the leisure guest, that can help get us to at the top end what we have outlined in the guidance.

Speaker 3

On the construction disruption side, I would just say that the we've made a lot of enhancements to our design and construction team over this past eight months or so as well as processes in terms of some of the vendors and we use our supply chains, etcetera. So I think that we feel confident in our ability to manage the disruption going forward. And to your extent, I think, to your comment, to the extent that we can improve on kind of what we've outlined, that's potential upside as well.

Speaker 8

Great. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2

Okay. David, I think one more question. We're almost at the top of the hour.

Operator

Perfect. Then we'll take our last question from David Katz with Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 4

Thanks very much. Made it in under the wire. I wanted to just get your perspective on, Mark, you said earlier, we're talking about some change on the margin. Whether there and I think everybody is sort of trying to circle some of the drivers of what we're processing. Is there any competition in certain markets, right?

Speaker 4

Anything you could point to? And I asked the question in the context, I know your properties and there really is nothing quite like them. But is there any marginal competition we might be able to point to that may be having some impact?

Speaker 3

I'm sitting here running through the markets in my head.

Speaker 6

There's nothing being built. There's nothing being built. Obviously, the JWs that we see in certain markets are competitive. I mean, it's individual assets, some of the Marquise.

Speaker 2

Those hotels are not transforming themselves. They're running themselves the way they've historically run themselves. No, I wouldn't.

Speaker 3

I don't think there's anything new coming on. No. I mean, the only product that looks like ours that's coming on is The Pacific, right? That's part

Speaker 4

of the rotation.

Speaker 6

It's more motivated by our own internal drive to try and groups are growing, where the opportunity lies to remix on the margin and enhance our revenue picture and we're pursuing that, not because someone is putting pressure on us.

Speaker 3

David, my comment as it relates to the change in the margin is that what I was trying to communicate was that the goal here is not to go to 80% or 90% corporate, right? We're trying to move it four or five points, that type of mix change. But that type of mix change can improve profit dramatically.

Speaker 4

Understood. Appreciate it. Thanks so much.

Speaker 6

Thank you, David.

Speaker 3

Thanks, David.

Speaker 2

Thank you. Well, David, thank you for presiding over this this morning and we appreciate our investors, analysts being on this call. If there are any questions that you have, follow-up questions, you know how to get hold of our IR team, Jennifer Hutchinson or Mark. And thank you, and we will see you soon.

Operator

That is with today's program. Thank you for your participation and you may now disconnect.

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Earnings Conference Call
Ryman Hospitality Properties Q4 2024
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