Bio-Rad Laboratories Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
February 4, 2025

There are 16 speakers on the call.

Operator

Hello. Welcome to Trans Am Group Incorporated Q1 2025 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all speakers are in a listen only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer session. I would now like to turn the conference over to Jamie Stephens, Director of Investor Relations.

Operator

You may begin.

Speaker 1

Thank you, and welcome to TransDigm's fiscal 2025 Q1 earnings conference call. Presenting on the call this morning are TransDigm's President and Chief Executive Officer, Kevin Stein Co Chief Operating Officer, Joel Reiss and Chief Financial Officer, Sarah Wynne. Also present for the call today is our Co Chief Operating Officer, Mike Blissman. Please visit our website at transdyme.com to obtain a supplemental slide deck and call replay information. Before we begin, the company would like to remind you that statements made during this call, which are not historical in fact, are forward looking statements.

Speaker 1

For further information about important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied in the forward looking statements, please refer to the company's latest filings with the SEC available through the Investors section of our website or atsec.gov. The company would also like to advise you that during the course of the call, we will be referring to EBITDA, specifically EBITDA as defined, adjusted net income and adjusted earnings per share, all of which are non GAAP financial measures. Please see the tables and related footnotes in the earnings release for a presentation of the most directly comparable GAAP measure and applicable reconciliation. I will now turn the call over to Kevin.

Speaker 2

Good morning. Thanks for calling in today. First, I'll start off with the usual quick overview of our strategy, a few comments about the quarter and discuss our fiscal 2025 outlook. Then Joel and Sarah will give additional color on the quarter. To reiterate, we believe we are unique in the industry in both the consistency of our strategy in both good times and bad, as well as our steady focus on intrinsic shareholder value creation through all phases of the aerospace cycle.

Speaker 2

To summarize, here

Speaker 3

are some of the reasons why we believe

Speaker 2

this. About 90% of our net sales are generated by unique proprietary products. Most of our EBITDA comes from aftermarket revenues, which generally have significantly higher margins and over any extended period have typically provided relative stability in the downturns. We follow a consistent long term strategy specifically, first, we own and operate proprietary aerospace businesses with significant aftermarket content. 2nd, we utilize a simple well proven value based operating methodology.

Speaker 2

3rd, we have a decentralized organizational structure and unique compensation system closely aligned with shareholders. 4th, we acquire businesses that fit this strategy where we see a clear path to PE like returns. And lastly, our capital structure and allocations are a key part of our value creation methodology. Our long standing goal is to give our shareholders private equity like returns with the liquidity of a public market. To do this, we stay focused on both the details of value creation as well as careful allocation of our capital.

Speaker 2

As you saw from our earnings release, we had a strong start to our fiscal year. During the quarter, we saw healthy growth in the revenues for both our commercial aftermarket and defense market channels. As expected, commercial OEM revenues were modestly down this quarter compared to prior year, which Joel will discuss further in his market segment commentary. Bookings in Q1 expanded for all three of our major market channels. Commercial Aerospace market trends remain favorable.

Speaker 2

The commercial aftermarket has returned to normalization as global air traffic has surpassed pre pandemic levels and robust demand for travel persists. In the commercial OEM market, there is still much progress to be made for OEM rates and our results continue to be adversely affected by OEM performance. Airlines demand for new aircraft remains high and the OEMs are working to increase aircraft production. However, Boeing aircraft production rates remain well below pre pandemic levels as the lingering effects of last fall's nearly 2 month long machinist strike and its ongoing impact to the supply chain continue to be felt. The strike has pushed the OEM recovery further to the right and time will tell how this plays out.

Speaker 2

Our EBITDA as defined margin was 52.9% in the quarter, contributing to this strong Q1 margin is the continued strength in our commercial aftermarket along with diligent focus on our operating strategy, which is allowing margin performance to expand across all segments. Additionally, we had strong operating cash flow generation in Q1 of over $750,000,000 and ended the quarter with almost $2,500,000,000 of cash. We expect to steadily generate significant additional cash throughout the remainder of 2025. Next an update on our capital allocation activities and priorities. During Q1, we opportunistically deployed just over $300,000,000 of capital via open market repurchases of our common stock.

Speaker 2

This equates to approximately 250,000 of our shares at an average price of $12.49 per share. We view these repurchases like any other capital investment and expect this will meet or exceed our long term return objectives. Regarding the current M and A activities and pipeline, we continue to actively look for M and A opportunities that fit our model. As we look out over the immediate time horizon, we continue to

Speaker 3

see an expanding pipeline of potential M and

Speaker 2

A targets and we do not see this environment slowing in the near term. As usual, the potential targets are mostly in the small and mid sized range, but larger deals may also be actionable. I cannot predict or comment on possible closings, but we remain confident that there is a long runway for acquisitions that fit our portfolio. The capital allocation priorities at TransDigm are unchanged. Our first priority is to reinvest in our business.

Speaker 2

2nd, do accretive disciplined M and A. And 3rd, return capital to our shareholders via share buybacks or dividends. A 4th option paying down debt seems unlikely at this time though we do still take this into consideration. We are continually evaluating all of our capital allocation options, but both M and A and capital markets are difficult to predict. As always, we continue to closely monitor the capital markets and remain opportunistic.

Speaker 2

As mentioned earlier, we ended the quarter with a sizable cash balance of almost $2,500,000,000 We have significant liquidity and financial flexibility to meet any likely range of capital requirements or other opportunities in the readily foreseeable future. Moving to our outlook for fiscal 2025. The guidance assumes no additional acquisitions or divestitures and is based on current expectations for continued performance in our primary commercial end markets throughout fiscal 2025. Although we saw strong first quarter results, we are not changing our full year revenue and EBITDA as defined guidance for fiscal 2025 at this time. We are also maintaining our previously issued full year market channel growth rate assumptions for commercial OEM, commercial aftermarket and defense as underlying market fundamentals have not meaningfully changed for any of these markets.

Speaker 2

Additionally, uncertainty remains around the commercial OEM production rate progression and supply chain impact as Boeing recovers from the machinist strength. We will continue to closely monitor the situation and respond as needed. With commercial OEM production ramp uncertainty and only 1 quarter of data, it's too close to call on making changes to our primary end market guidance at this time. Our guidance can be found on Slide 6 in the presentation and I will reiterate it here. The midpoint of our fiscal 2025 revenue guidance is $8,850,000,000 or up approximately 11%.

Speaker 2

The revenue guidance is based on the following market channel growth rate assumptions commercial OEM revenue growth in the mid single digit percentage range, which is highly dependent on the evolution of the production rates in the commercial OEM environment Commercial aftermarket revenue growth in the high single digit to low double digit percentage range and defense revenue growth in the high single digit percentage range. The midpoint of fiscal 2025 EBITDA's defined guidance is $4,685,000,000 or up approximately 12% with an expected margin of around 52.9%. This guidance includes about an additional 70 basis points of margin dilution from recent acquisitions compared to fiscal 2024. While we had a strong EBITDA margin result in the Q1 of 2025, Margins can be lumpy and may fluctuate over the next few quarters. The midpoint of adjusted EPS is increasing versus our prior guide to reflect the lower outstanding share count resulting from the share repurchases discussed earlier.

Speaker 2

The midpoint of adjusted EPS is now expected to be $36.47 or up approximately 7%. Sarah will discuss in more detail shortly the factors impacting EPS along with some other fiscal 2025 financial assumptions and updates. We believe we are well positioned for the remainder of fiscal 2025. As usual, we will continue to closely watch how the aerospace and capital markets continue to develop and react accordingly. Let me conclude by stating that I'm very pleased with the company's performance this quarter.

Speaker 2

We remain focused on our value drivers, cost structure and operational excellence. We look forward to the remainder of fiscal 2025 and providing the value you come to expect from us. Now let me hand it over to Joel Rees, our TransDigm Group Co COO to review our recent performance and a few other items.

Speaker 3

Good morning. I'll start with our typical review of results by key market category. For the remainder of the call, I'll provide commentary on a pro form a basis compared to the prior year period in 2024. That is assuming we own the same mix of businesses in both periods. The market discussion includes the 2024 acquisitions in both periods.

Speaker 3

In the commercial market, which typically makes up close to 65% of our revenue, we will split our discussion into OEM and aftermarket. Our total commercial OEM revenue decreased approximately 4% in Q1 compared with the prior year period. Commercial transport OEM, this is largely Boeing and Airbus was down 1%. Bizjet and helicopter OEM revenue was down 8%. Sequentially, total commercial OEM revenues contracted by 17% in Q1.

Speaker 3

Bookings in the quarter were solid, up both sequentially and against prior year Q1. Our commercial OEM business was impacted in the quarter by the Boeing machine strike, which affected its 737 MAX, 767 and 777 production lines. In total, the strike and subsequent production restart lasted roughly 12 weeks. Specific to TransDigm since we shipped to rent as well as through sub tiers on the effective platforms, the impact across our businesses is uneven and varied. Boeing's receiving docks were closed during the strike, while some sub tiers continue to drive consistent demand.

Speaker 3

This will likely cause further commercial OEM impact into the balance of the year. It is too soon to determine how much of an impact the strike will have and what is a fragile supply chain recovery.

Speaker 2

Precisely predicting the ramp up and the flow through to

Speaker 3

the supply chain is tough. However, the commercial OEM guidance we are reiterating today contains what we believe is an appropriate level of risk around the 737 MAX, 767 and 777 production build rates for the 2025 fiscal year. As we noted on our last earnings call, shortly after the strike began, we proactively initiated cost reduction initiatives across our operating units to right size our structure to account for the lower 2025 OEM production environment. These cost reduction initiatives span furloughs, headcount reduction, hiring freezes, acceleration of productivity projects and a range of other actions aimed at reducing expenses. These initiatives enable us to beat our Q1 and active productivity target and have put us in a good position for the year.

Speaker 3

In addition, as is typical for us, we will add resources judiciously as we see the higher ramp rate materialize. The business jet helicopter miss in quarter 1 versus prior year is primarily timing related, but we were also impacted by the 4 week Textron strike. Bookings were up nicely in Q1 over the same period last year, which should set us up for growth in the balance of the year. Now moving on to our commercial aftermarket business discussion. Total commercial aftermarket revenue increased by approximately 9% compared with the prior year period.

Speaker 3

Sequentially, total commercial aftermarket revenues grew by about 4% compared to Q4 2024. Commercial aftermarket bookings were solid compared to prior year. Bookings and shipments are running in line with our expectations and continue to support our unchanged 2025 commercial aftermarket guidance of high single digit to low double digit revenue growth. As a reminder and as we've said many times before, the commercial aftermarket can be lumpy and when forecasting our commercial aftermarket, we always focus on 12 month trends, not quarterly trends. Our commercial aftermarket is made up of 4 submarkets, passenger, interior, freight and business jet.

Speaker 3

This quarter, the growth across the 4 submarkets was varied, but not significantly disconnected from what we had anticipated. All 4 submarkets revenue increased versus Q1 of last year. Business jet was stronger and freight weaker than the total commercial aftermarket 9% growth rate. The passenger submarket performed in line with the overall commercial aftermarket rate of growth. Within our passenger segment, operating units with higher engine content posted very solid growth, well in excess of those with non engine content.

Speaker 3

Additionally, quarter 1 point of sales data from our distribution partners increased well into double digits 1st quarter 1 of last year. These factors give us confidence we will achieve the commercial aftermarket growth rate guidance for fiscal 2025. Turning to broader market dynamics and referencing the most recent IATA traffic data for December. Global revenue passenger miles have continued to surpass pre pandemic levels since February of 2024. 2024 air traffic increased 10.4% above 2023 and is about 3.8% above pre pandemic levels.

Speaker 3

Our PKs in December were up 8.6% versus prior year, while ASKs were up 5.6% as passenger load factor is at near record highs of 84% driving the additional upside. IATA currently expects traffic to reach 113% of 2019 levels in 2025 and to surpass prior year traffic by 8%. Domestic travel also continues to surpass pre pandemic levels. In the most recently reported traffic data, global domestic air traffic was up 5.7% compared to 2023 9.7% compared to 2019. Domestic air travel growth has been driven significantly by outsized growth in China where air travel was up 20.2% compared to 2019.

Speaker 3

International traffic continues to trend upwards and has been above pre pandemic levels for the past few months. In the most recently reported data for 2024, international travel was about 0.5% above 2019 levels. Most international markets saw stable growth with Asia Pacific, the major driver of the increase. Shifting to our defense market, which is traditionally is at or below 35% of our total revenue. The defense market revenue, which includes both OEM and aftermarket revenues grew by approximately 11% compared with the prior year period.

Speaker 3

Q1 defense revenue growth was well distributed across our businesses and customer base. We saw similar growth in both the OEM and aftermarket components of our total defense market, with the aftermarket running slightly ahead of OEM. Defense bookings for the quarter were healthy compared to the prior year and continue to support our unchanged 2025 defense guidance of high single digit revenue growth. However, as you know, defense sales and bookings can be lumpy and forecasting them with precision on a quarterly basis is difficult. Similar to my commercial aftermarket commentary, the defense growth rates could also be uneven over the individual quarters of 2025.

Speaker 3

In addition, we continue to see steady improvements in on time delivery and other key customer performance metrics, which are now approaching 2019 levels. With improving supply chain performance, we are on track to surpass those levels later this year. We also saw good new business awards and bookings in the quarter in both commercial and defense markets. Corie Electronics was selected by a major OEM as the provider of a flight deck control panel systems for a new derivative platform. As the incumbent on other platforms with this customer, Corie was well positioned to be responsive to their timeline, providing the right technology, customization and capability required in an exceptionally short period of time.

Speaker 3

In addition to Corey Electronics, we had solid awards during the quarter at Airborne Systems North America, ArmTec, Calspan and Cho Unlimited within the quarter. During the quarter, we saw our succession planning at work with 1 executive with EVP retirement and 2 EVP promotions. Pete Palmer after an impressive 25 year career with TransDigm has retired. Pete began as a product line manager at A. L.

Speaker 3

Wiggins and evolved into a key leader within our organization. His contributions span multiple areas, including mergers and acquisitions, serving as President of several business units, playing a pivotal role in the Esterline integration and spearheading our TransDigm University leadership development program in partnership with the University of Southern California. We extend our heartfelt thanks to Pete for his dedication and wish him a well deserved relaxing retirement. With Pete's retirement and the acquisitions made in 2024, we promoted 2 accomplished leaders to Executive Vice President roles. Jason Marlin, who joined us in 2008, has accumulated 17 years of experience across several TransDigm operating units.

Speaker 3

His most recent role was as President of Champion Aerospace in Liberty, South Carolina. Jason was promoted in October and now will oversee 6 operating units. Similarly, Chris Blackford, who has served with TransDigm for 11 years was promoted in November. Chris has held leadership roles across multiple units, including his most recent position as President of Airborne Systems North America. Like Jason, Chris will be responsible for overseeing 6 operating units.

Speaker 3

We are confident that both Jason and Chris will continue driving operational excellence and value creation across the organization. Lastly, I'd like to wrap up by expressing how pleased I am by our operational performance in the Q1. It was a very good start to our fiscal 2025. As we progress further into fiscal 2025, our management teams remain focused on our consistent operating strategy and servicing the strong demand for our products. With that, I would like to turn it over to our Chief Financial Officer, Sarah Lynn.

Speaker 4

Thanks, Joel, and good morning, everyone. I'll recap the financial highlights for the Q1 and then provide some more information on the guidance. First, on organic growth and liquidity. In the Q1, our organic growth rate was 6.6%, driven by our commercial aftermarket and defense market channels as Kevin and Joel have just discussed. On cash and liquidity, free cash flow, which we traditionally define as EBITDA less cash interest payments, CapEx and cash taxes was over $800,000,000 for the quarter.

Speaker 4

This is higher than our average free cash flow conversion due to the timing of our interest and tax payments. This will normalize throughout the year as our interest and tax payments will pick up next quarter. For the full fiscal year, our free cash flow guidance is unchanged. We continue to expect to generate free cash flow of approximately $2,300,000,000 in fiscal 2025. Below that free cash flow line, net working capital usage was neutral for the quarter.

Speaker 4

For the full year, we expect working capital to end roughly in line with historical levels as a percentage of sales. We ended the quarter with approximately $2,500,000,000 of cash on the balance sheet our net debt to EBITDA ratio was 5.3x, up from 4.5x at the end of last quarter after paying out the $75 dividend earlier in Q1. While we don't target a specific amount of cash that we like to have on hand, we have sufficient capital available through both cash on hand as well as incremental debt capacity to support all potential M and A activity in the pipeline. As a reminder, we are comfortable operating in the 5 to 7 net debt EBITDA ratio range. And while we are currently sitting on the low end of this range, our go forward strategy of capital deployment has not changed.

Speaker 4

Our EBITDA to interest expense coverage ratio ended the quarter at 3.4 times, which provides us comfortable cushion versus our target of 2 to 3 times. Regarding our debt, our nearest term maturity is 2027 and we remain approximately 75% hedged on our total $25,000,000,000 gross debt balance through our fiscal 2027. This is achieved through a combination of fixed rate notes, interest rate caps, swaps and collars. This provides us plenty of protection at least in the medium term. As Kevin mentioned, during the quarter, we opportunistically repurchased approximately 250,000 shares deploying just over $300,000,000 of cash.

Speaker 4

We continue to seek the best opportunities for providing value to our shareholders through our leverage strategy. On a go forward basis, we expect to continue to both proactively and prudently manage our debt maturity steps, which for us means pushing out any near term maturities well in advance of the final maturity date. With regard to guidance, as Kevin mentioned, we maintained our prior guidance for sales and EBITDA. Our adjusted EPS guidance is up slightly, now at $36.47 compared to the prior guidance of $36.32 The increase is due to the approximately 250,000 shares we repurchased during the quarter. As we sit here today, from an overall cash, liquidity and balance sheet standpoint, we think we remain in good position with adequate flexibility to pursue M and A or return cash to our shareholders via dividends or share repurchases.

Speaker 4

With that, I'll turn it back to the operator to kick off the Q and A.

Operator

Thank Our first question comes from the line of Myles Walton with Wolfe Research. Your line is open.

Speaker 3

Thanks. Good morning. Good morning.

Speaker 5

I think the Q1 margins were expected to be down sequentially. They were obviously up sequentially. Curious if you can comment on that. And also the contract loss amortization was running pretty hot. What's causing that to sort of go up in level?

Speaker 5

And then what's the expectation for the full year? Thanks.

Speaker 4

Joao, this is Sarah. I'll take those. So in Q1, the higher EBITDA margin is primarily driven from the significant mix shift we had in the quarter from commercial OEM to commercial aftermarket. And then also we had good productivity projects, but the mix is the primary piece of that. On the loss contracts, I think you obviously saw that in the table there.

Speaker 4

These are some of those contracts that we purchased with Esterline. So they're still lumpy as they flow out. There's been no new loss contracts, nothing else added to it. But that's what you see flowing out and there was just some timing on some of that in Q1 for this quarter for this year.

Speaker 5

Okay. And just a quick one, that sale, the gain on sale, what was sold in the quarter?

Speaker 2

We had a mass business in

Speaker 4

Sorry, on the gain on sale, yes. We sold a small piece called mass systems in the quarter. We bought it a few years ago, managed to improve it and sold it as profit.

Speaker 2

It came along with Carbon. Yes, another acquisition, very close to the Russian border and it made mass communication mass for troops on the ground and that really wasn't a business we wanted to be in. Got it. Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Please standby for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Noah Poponak with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.

Speaker 6

Hey, good morning everyone.

Speaker 2

Good morning.

Speaker 6

Maybe just staying on the margins, since they were up nicely year over year, I guess the guidance for the year at the midpoint would imply that that EBITDA margin is essentially flat through the rest of the year. And I think you usually have some seasonality where it expands through the year. Your recently acquired revenue would become less recently acquired. What would drive the margin to be flat through the year?

Speaker 2

Well, we have to factor in the acquisitions we made are certainly averaging us down. I think that mixes us down up to 1% about we saw special situation in the Q1 with the strike at OEM being down quite surprisingly from where we forecast. But I think it's we aim to be conservative. So hopefully we're conservative and it might look like we are once again, but we don't try to get out over our skis too much on forecasting the future. We'll see how it unfolds.

Speaker 6

Okay. And then Kevin, just wanted to ask about the commercial transport aftermarket. I guess, are you surprised to have 2 quarters in a row of up 7 seat miles are still growing a little faster than that? It seems like pricing is still nicely positive year over year. Can you talk about a little more about what you're seeing there?

Speaker 6

Is it just random? Or is it just the compares? I know the compares get a decent amount easier the rest of the year.

Speaker 3

Yes. Some of it probably is comparison. We were up 33% from Q1 of FY 2023 in commercial transport. So we're kind of seeing some varied pieces as we as I talked about in the submarket, our freight continues to be a bit of a drag, although bookings were up significantly and we think that freights kind of bottomed out at this point. Our engine businesses we have are doing significantly better than what the kind of the overall numbers are.

Speaker 3

It's just right now kind of just the kind of mix of where we're at. It was slightly better than what we had anticipated when we were putting out the initial kind of look last quarter. So for us, it's roughly in line as part of the lumpiness of what we expect the commercial aftermarket to be.

Speaker 6

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Robert Stallard with Vertical Research. Your line is open.

Speaker 7

Thanks so much. Good morning.

Speaker 8

Good morning.

Speaker 7

Maybe I'll ask Noah's question in a slightly different way. You've got the 1Q actuals here. But if you look at these various sub components of the Aerospace aftermarket, where do you expect there to be improvement that will get you to that low double digit number for the full year?

Speaker 3

So we don't provide the specific guidance into the submarkets. Having said that, I think as we highlighted before, freight, we think is kind of bottomed down and expect that to continue to improve. The engine business has continued, I would think to continue to do well. Beyond that, I think we're going to see the I think the way we look at it is all of the sectors continue to have the right kind of components behind it of good passenger traffic and an aging aircraft marketplace. So I think we'll continue to see kind of growth across all of the submarkets.

Speaker 7

And then one for Kevin, tariffs. I was wondering what sort of exposure trends I might have with regard to tariffs that could be coming through on Europe and we've got the Canada and Mexico ones as well. And what sort of plans you've put in place as a contingency? Thank you.

Speaker 2

So we've looked at this across our business. The good news is TransDigm is a domestic manufacturer. We don't import a lot of products to manufacture. So that's to our advantage in this. We've analyzed that.

Speaker 2

I guess it depends on how you answer the question where the tariffs going to be implemented. It seems like Mexico and Canada are on a delay and China is being implemented. We don't do a lot in China any longer. We have I think relocated production out of China where possible, and don't utilize that location a lot. So we think tariffs for us across the board will be de minimis to the corporation.

Speaker 2

Again, we're largely a domestic manufacturer.

Speaker 5

Thanks so much.

Operator

Thank you. Please standby for our next question. Next question comes from the line of David Strauss with Barclays. Your line is open.

Speaker 9

Thanks. Good morning.

Speaker 2

Good morning.

Speaker 9

Kevin, I think you had on the last call, you had mentioned that Q1 would be the weakest aftermarket quarter. Did the aftermarket end up coming in a little bit better than you would have thought back then?

Speaker 2

Yes, I think it did come in a little bit stronger, which was a pleasant surprise to us. It's always difficult to forecast this as Joel and Mike will always say aftermarket is book and ship largely. So it's difficult to forecast.

Speaker 9

Okay. And on aftermarket volumes, can you give us I know you've given us kind of at a high level where you think it is relative to 2019. Can you give us any idea by the different submarkets where you think volumes are relative to 2019?

Speaker 3

I think as of right now, everything is above pre pandemic levels except for probably our interior businesses. Interiors is driven a lot by the refurb market and refurb really has not come back to where it was back in 2018, 2019. I think as we've talked about this a few times in the last year or so, we keep thinking it's going to happen and it slides a little bit to the right. The refurb programs we've seen announced somehow are generally smaller than what was then back happening in 2018, 2019. Freight had come back in 2020 during the pandemic, 2021 I think was a peak year until this year.

Speaker 3

So I think freight is doing well. Bizjet is well above where it was pre pandemic levels is the overall market. So I think as we look at it, really the only area that's lagging today is the interiors piece and exactly when that will come back. It's really just going to be dependent I think around when the refurb market comes back when you see the larger OEM, the larger airlines refreshing their interior.

Speaker 9

Okay. And Joel, can you remind us how much freight is of your total aftermarket?

Speaker 3

It is about 15%

Speaker 2

or so, 15%, 20% range. It kind

Speaker 3

of varies. It bounces around, but that's a general range.

Speaker 9

That's a total or a commercial?

Speaker 3

Commercial. Commercial, sorry. Yes, commercial.

Speaker 2

Okay. Thank you

Speaker 9

very much.

Operator

Thank you. Please standby for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Scott Micas with Melius Research. Your line is open.

Speaker 10

Good morning. Kevin, Joel, Sarah, Boeing has laid out a fairly aggressive production ramp post strike at least their targets. They and Airbus both have a track record of not hitting their stated production rates. I'm just curious, are your operating units receiving orders from Boeing that support a ramp to 38 per month or higher in the back half of this year on the 737?

Speaker 3

So we're typically not getting orders out for what would be the back end of the year yet. Our lead times are typically shorter than that. We're certainly optimistic that Boeing is going to get back up to the rate of 38. Today, we're probably seeing about half of that and we're optimistic that as I said that the number will move up during the year and we're prepared to do that. We'll add people as necessary and yes, so we're hopeful they can hit their numbers.

Speaker 10

Okay. And then you mentioned the M and A pipeline remains active, but in the quarter you bought back $316,000,000 of stock. So just curious, are valuations for acquisition targets just too elevated relative to the quality of the assets? Or did you think that your stock is just trading at a very attractive price?

Speaker 2

Yes, we're always looking to opportunistically return capital to our shareholders. There was a lot of turmoil in the market. Stock fell. We took it opportunistically to buy back some shares. That's really all there is to it.

Speaker 2

It doesn't say anything about the M and A market and it wasn't a lot of cash that we used. It was just an opportunity to quickly return cash to or capital to shareholders.

Speaker 3

Thanks for taking

Speaker 10

the questions.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ken Herbert with RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Speaker 8

Hi, good morning. Good morning. Hey, can you remind us, what percent of aftermarket engine represents and maybe how much over the up 9% was the engine in the Q1?

Speaker 3

So it bounces around for us. It's not immaterial. It was up significantly more than the 9%.

Speaker 8

Okay. And obviously as we think about that, we think about Champion Jason's business, but is it fair to say that your engine exposure is market weighted or are you disproportionately have disproportionately higher content on any engine types?

Speaker 3

We think we're market weighted across the board.

Speaker 8

Great. And are you seeing any incremental pressure in on pricing across any of the submarkets within the aftermarket relative to maybe where you were 3 months ago?

Speaker 3

I don't think, Gary, anything specific different from pricing. Our typical approach to pricing is unchanged. We're basically looking to cover our inflationary costs and then a little bit more. And I don't know that we've seen anything significantly different than that.

Speaker 8

Perfect. Thanks, Joel.

Speaker 2

Yes. Thank you.

Operator

Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Scott Dorshell with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.

Speaker 11

Hey, good morning.

Speaker 2

Good morning.

Speaker 11

Kevin, did the OEM contract renegotiation you've spoken about in the recent past conclude or is that contract still being negotiated?

Speaker 3

Yes, we successfully closed out the contract. Patrick Murphy, one of our EVPs led the negotiation and we were able to close it out. I think it was in December.

Speaker 11

Okay. And were there any retroactive elements to that negotiation that would have helped OE pricing in the quarter just concluded?

Speaker 3

No, the contract, it was expiring at the end of December. So the new contracts started January 1. So there was no retroactive aspect to it.

Speaker 11

Okay. And then just to clarify, is the duration of the new contract the same as the duration of the contract that it's replacing or did you move to something shorter term in nature?

Speaker 3

Yes, it was the same. Okay.

Operator

Thank you. Thank you. Please standby for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Sheila with Jefferies. Your line is open.

Speaker 12

Hey, good morning guys. Good morning. Maybe just on that last question, Joel, I think it was you or Kevin. If we just how do we think about profitability overall just the flattening out? Is it OE coming back up from down 4 to mid single digits?

Speaker 12

And does the new contract have any changes in your profitability profile?

Speaker 2

Yes. Our I think that the contract and OEM business is already in our forecast. So I don't there's not going to be any incremental improvements or anything. Anything else to share on that, Joel?

Speaker 3

No, that's right.

Speaker 12

Okay. And then maybe if I could ask one on the aftermarket. Interiors, I think that's the only sub segment below 2019 levels. How can we think about what's driving that when you expect that to improve? Does it come in a wave or should we see it just a gradual improvement?

Speaker 3

I'm not sure that I could give you any great extra insight. It really is will be as when you see the airlines start announcing a refurb programs. I mean, it's not the refurb business here, but it's well below the kind of typical levels. There are several programs we're hearing about. The question will be is what will drive

Speaker 2

the numbers of multiple programs

Speaker 3

for us at the same time as opposed to if it's just sort of a slow wave of what that looks like. But the lead times will be long. I'm sure we'll be have we'll have seen that coming and we'll be able to provide some color as that's coming back. I don't know that today we see that it's within the next quarter or 2.

Speaker 2

I think it's also difficult to take planes out of service to refurbish interiors when you don't have enough plane deliveries from the OEMs. So I think all these things kind of weren't complicated. It's sort of a complicated relationship.

Speaker 12

Sure. Makes sense. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Please standby for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Seth Seifman with JPMorgan. Your line is open.

Speaker 5

Hey, thanks very much and good morning everyone. Good morning. Just to maybe go back a little bit to the aftermarket point we touched on a little earlier, things being a little stronger in the first half or in the Q1, I think you talked about the Q1 being the lowest of the year and the comps, particularly in the Q4, start to get easier. Did anything change in your view of the rest of the year? Or should we still think that there's no reason why we wouldn't see growth below there's no reason we should see growth below what we saw in the Q1 and growth should ascend from here?

Speaker 3

I don't think we have anything to kind of change from the guidance we provided you before. What

Speaker 2

we say all

Speaker 3

the time is the aftermarket is lumpy. I mean the vast majority of our orders book and ship in the same quarter. So we try to look at what the trends are and there's nothing in the market dynamics today that make us think there's a significant change from what we're seeing today. Okay.

Speaker 5

And then I guess if you were ever to make an acquisition from one of your customers, would there ever be an opportunity to pay for that acquisition or pay for a portion of that acquisition in the form of pricing rather than cash?

Speaker 2

Certainly hasn't ever come up for. We're opportunistic in everything we do, but that's not our usual process.

Speaker 5

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ron Epstein with Bank of America. Your line is open.

Speaker 13

Hello, everyone. This is Mariana on for Ron today. So in the prepared remarks, you talked about the M and A pipeline and how you have a mix of like Smith Cap names and also some large opportunities. Like would you mind discussing what is the mix of like our space and defense companies versus other industrials and where are you really seeing opportunities on M and A?

Speaker 2

This is all aerospace and defense. We aren't looking outside of aerospace and defense. So small, medium and large opportunities come along a lot less on the large side. If something is in the market on the aerospace and defense side, we're going to look at it quite seriously. And that's all I can probably comment on the M and A pipeline there.

Speaker 2

It's very busy, much like last year. There's probably even more EBITDA in the pipeline this year than last year, but you just can't predict how things are going to close.

Speaker 13

Thank you. And then after the OE slowdown this quarter and with your more like aggressive or not aggressive, but like you have a good view and outlook for the year on OE, what are your channel checks saying to you about like inventories in the supply chain? Like how do you address that uncertainty about like item by item inventories in the supply chain?

Speaker 2

We don't get we've never had much visibility to inventory in the supply chain. The only thing we see is our distribution partners on the aftermarket side. The OEM partners, they don't give us much inventory visibility. So we're simply guessing, listening to people, getting feedback. It does seem like there's been some inventory buildup over time that is working its way through in certain pieces.

Speaker 2

And we're just going to have to see how this plays out. We don't have any additional visibility except the orders that we received from our customers. We fulfill them quickly. We're a reliable supplier, high quality, high delivery accuracy. So our customers now they can count on us.

Speaker 13

Great. Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you. Please standby for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Jason Jerski with Citi. Your line is open.

Speaker 14

Hey, good morning everybody. Good morning. Kevin and others, just a quick question on the refurbishment work to put a finer point on this. Can you

Speaker 3

I don't want to put words

Speaker 14

in your mouth, but I would maybe want to get you to comment on the cycle there. So it does seem like it is going to be tied to airlines getting more consistent supply from their OEM partners so that they can do some fleet planning and maybe take some aircraft out of service to go do this refurbishment work. I just want to confirm that that's what you're thinking. And then how big is this for you all? Is this going to be a meaningful contributor to your aftermarket growth once it actually once the cycle actually picks up?

Speaker 3

So I think yes, firstly, to answer your question, beginning part, certainly the airlines ability to take planes out of service is a key aspect to it. You can't pull a plane out to do the work as you'd rather have it flying. I think it's a you'll see the interior percentage jump up significantly. But in terms of total for our business, I don't think this is a significant piece to the total. It's just the one piece remaining of our commercial aftermarket that just kind of continues to lag below the 2019 levels.

Speaker 14

Okay, got it. And then, look, I know you're saying the adult track inventory levels with a great level of detail and specificity. But your comment about you're shipping into Boeing at production rates that are half where they are today, they talk about the need to wind down inventory. They're carrying too much given the fact that they ingested so much last year and weren't shipping out nearly as much as they were ingesting. You just went through a big contract negotiation with them.

Speaker 14

I'm wondering if you just can't give us a little bit more insight on what you're hearing from your major customers on inventory unwinds because they've been pretty public about it, and how long that might last and impact you all?

Speaker 2

I would just start to answer. I mean, this is why our commercial OEM forecast was lower at mid single digits than maybe somewhat of expected. As this has all led to this somewhat confusion in the supply chain. I don't think we're getting as directed clear input from some of the OEM suppliers as some in the market would think there's not a lot of clear communication. They're working through a lot of challenges right now.

Speaker 2

Yes. What I

Speaker 3

was going to add is our operating units at a detailed level roughly know how many units of each product they have that goes on a plane. And so they work to build up a bottoms up forecast based on what we believe the OEM build rate will be.

Speaker 2

And so they're trying

Speaker 3

to take into account if they've been over shipping last year, if they were over shipping in this quarter, what it looks like over the balance of the year. So we don't have a top down piece, but each of our op units works to pull that together and that's what ultimately drove our guidance for the down severe as Kevin said.

Speaker 14

Okay, fair enough. Thanks guys.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to the interest of time, our final question will come from the line of Gautam Khanna with TD Cowen. Your line is open.

Speaker 15

Yes, thanks. Good morning, guys.

Speaker 2

Good morning.

Speaker 15

I was wondering if you could comment as you have in prior quarters about what you're seeing in the distribution channel into the aftermarket point of sale data relative to what you guys were experiencing on the manufacturing side?

Speaker 2

I think running ahead, Joel, do you want to?

Speaker 3

Yes, it's currently running ahead. It's a different mix. We looked at the mix of TransDigm commercial aftermarket versus the mix of our distribution. They're not quite the same as we look at it into each of the submarkets. It's roughly in line with what we would expect it to be, but it is in total running above what our overall commercial market is.

Speaker 3

As I said in the opening remarks, it's running into the double digits versus our 9%.

Speaker 15

Got you. And that's a couple of quarters now, right, where it's been running ahead and that's more of a leading indicator?

Speaker 2

Several quarters. So we think of it as a it should be a good leading indicator. It's where we have visibility on inventory and POS sales granular. So yes, it should be a good indicator of future.

Speaker 15

Great. And then my last one just on the new administration and how is TransDigm kind of working constructively with them and your thoughts on Doge and I'll just leave it open ended, but

Speaker 2

That's a great question. I anticipated this earlier, I think, in the Q and A. Doge is it's a great opportunity for the U. S. To improve and streamline what they're doing specifically with government DoD, DLA procurement.

Speaker 2

We think this is a really good thing. We've been engaging with the DoD over the past several years and have suggested a number of improved forecasting inventory management and improved buying practices that would save the government money and save us time and energy in production. So we invite all inquiry and assistance. I've met with some of the Doge folks in DC. It's important to remember that TransDigm is a very small supplier.

Speaker 2

I think we're 0.3% of the DLA budgets and this amounts to less than 1% or somewhere around 1% of our revenue, are these types of products that would fall under the concern of Doge. We see this only as an opportunity for TransDigm, the government, the DoD to improve what we're doing together. So we warrant any and all inquiries and work together to come up with a stronger solution in the future. So that's really where we're at. It's a small part of our business is supplying spare parts to the government.

Speaker 2

The bulk of what we do is either falls under TNA today, which is fully cost disclosed or it is commercial of a type or competitive. That's the bulk of our business falls under those three categories. So, we inflate

Speaker 3

the work that we need

Speaker 2

to do together to improve how we work together with the government. So that's I guess our answer.

Speaker 15

Thank you, guys.

Operator

Thank you. I would now like to turn the call back to Jamie for closing remarks.

Speaker 1

Thank you all for joining us today. This concludes today's call. We appreciate your time and have a good rest of your day.

Operator

That concludes today's conference. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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Earnings Conference Call
Williams Companies Q1 2025
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