Dynex Capital Q2 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
July 21, 2025

Key Takeaways

  • Positive Sentiment: Our net interest income continued to grow as we added attractive new investments and leveraged positive carry from a steepened yield curve to support our dividend.
  • Positive Sentiment: We raised $560 million of common equity capital this year at a premium to book value, enhancing accretion for existing shareholders.
  • Positive Sentiment: The portfolio expanded 25% quarter-over-quarter to $14 billion, and we maintained ample liquidity of $891 million (55% of equity) to navigate volatility.
  • Positive Sentiment: Agency MBS spreads remain historically wide, delivering mid-teens to low-20% ROEs on newly hedged positions and underpinning our strong risk-adjusted returns.
  • Positive Sentiment: We increased our quarterly dividend above pre-COVID levels and achieved a market capitalization exceeding $1.5 billion, marking nearly 50% year-over-year growth.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
Dynex Capital Q2 2025
00:00 / 00:00

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Operator

Thank you for standing by. My name is Carly, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Dynex Capital Inc. Second Quarter Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise.

Operator

After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session. Thank you. I would now like to turn the call over to Alison Griffin, Vice President, Investor Relations. You may begin.

Alison Griffin
Alison Griffin
VP - IR at Dynex Capital

Good morning. The press release associated with today's call was issued and filed with the SEC this morning, 07/21/2025. You may view the press release on the homepage of the Dynex website at dynexcapital.com as well as on the SEC's website at sec.gov. Before we begin, we wish to remind you that this conference call may contain forward looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. The words believe, expect, forecast, anticipate, estimate, project, plan and similar expressions identify forward looking statements that are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties, some of which cannot be predicted or quantified.

Alison Griffin
Alison Griffin
VP - IR at Dynex Capital

The company's actual results and timing of certain events could differ considerably from those projected and or contemplated by those forward looking statements as a result of unforeseen external factors or risks. For additional information on these factors or risks, please refer to our disclosures filed with the SEC, which may be found on the Zynex website under Investor as well as on the SEC's website. This conference call is being broadcast live over the Internet with a streaming slide presentation, which can be found through the webcast link on the website. The slide presentation may also be referenced under Quarterly Reports on the Investor Center page. Joining me on the call today are Byron Boston, Chairman and Co Chief Executive Officer Smriti Poponow, Co Chief Executive Officer and President Rob Colligan, Chief Financial Officer and Chief Operating Officer and TJ Connolly, Chief Investment Officer. I will now turn the call over to Smriti.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

Thank you, Allison, and good morning, everyone. I'd like to recognize and congratulate my colleague, Bob Nielsen, Chief Risk Officer of Dynex Wayne Brockwell, our Senior Vice President of asset liability management and Richmond office executive, Allison Griffin, our head of investor relations, Mark Warner, our head of financing, and Jeff Childress, our chief accounting officer for each completing over twenty years of service to Dynex. Their careers have evolved with the company, and their contributions continue to be a significant factor in our success. I'm also pleased to announce the appointment of Michael Angelo as our chief legal officer and corporate secretary. Michael brings a great attitude, outstanding credentials, and highly relevant experience from a variety of financial institutions, and I look forward to working with him closely in his new role.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

Last quarter saw tremendous market volatility, and yet our investment opportunity set for solid long term total return generation remains largely intact. We are growing our company in a highly dynamic macroeconomic and business environment. The breadth and scale of change domestically and globally across a comprehensive set of factors is enormous. Demographics are evolving to play a major role in politics and policy. Human conflict is escalating and rapidly reshaping the world of the last fifty years.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

The government policies we have relied on as a backdrop to decision making are facing fundamental and foundational shift. Technology is now poised to be a major factor in the transformation of daily life impacting economies and societies at a global scale. As we navigate this as long term investors, the most important aspect of our process is our mindset, our approach to the environment. We are focused on keeping that clear, protecting shareholder value and taking advantage of what opportunities present themselves. We continue to execute our strategy of raising capital, deploying it into a historically cheap and liquid investment opportunity and managing our portfolio carefully through any volatile periods.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

I'm excited about the accelerating growth of the company and are delivering a meaningful operating leverage. This quarter, Dynex crossed another milestone. Our market capitalization as of June 30 is over $1,500,000,000 representing nearly 50% growth since June 2024. The disciplined experience and expertise of the team was on full display in April and will continue to be a differentiator for Dynex in the future. Rob and T.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

J. Will now give you further details on the quarter and the outlook. I'll turn it over to Rob.

Robert Colligan
Robert Colligan
CFO & COO at Dynex Capital

Thank you, Smriti. We have several highlights to share for the quarter. First, our net interest income continues to trend upwards as we add new investments with attractive yields to our portfolio and swaps continue to contribute to our economic net interest income. With the steepening of the yield curve, the Agency RMBS market is currently offering positive carry, which doesn't require any action from the Fed or other market moves to deliver the levered yield to support our dividend. Mortgage spreads remain wide and negative swap spreads add to the long term returns of the portfolio.

Robert Colligan
Robert Colligan
CFO & COO at Dynex Capital

Any reduction in financing costs later this year or in 2026 would be an additional boost to an already strong return. Second, this year we've raised $560,000,000 of new capital. Our stock has performed well allowing us to continue raising capital at a premium to book value which is accretive to shareholders. We raised capital above book positioning us to grow and deploy capital into an attractive market. T.

Robert Colligan
Robert Colligan
CFO & COO at Dynex Capital

J. Will cover the fundamentals and technicals of the portfolio in his comments. Third, our portfolio is 25% larger since the end of the first quarter and stands at $14,000,000,000 compared to $11,000,000,000 at the end of the first quarter and is over 50% larger than this time last year. While our portfolio has grown, we continue to focus on disciplined risk management and maintaining ample levels of liquidity to weather future volatility. Our liquidity at quarter end was $891,000,000 or 55% of total equity.

Robert Colligan
Robert Colligan
CFO & COO at Dynex Capital

Finally, in keeping with our long term strategy to build a world class operating platform, we have brought several functions in house to help us achieve scale, build and retain valuable institutional knowledge and strengthen our organizational resilience. In the last year, we added key human capital to our legal, IT, operations and accounting teams. These human assets are positioned to help us better manage our existing business partnerships while leveraging new technology tools from our partners as well as our own internal developments in infrastructure, applications, artificial intelligence and machine learning. The changes we are making in people and technology will keep us ahead of the curve and prepare us for a fast changing financial and technological environment. I'll now turn it over to TJ.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Thank you, Rob. This was an important quarter for demonstrating the strength of our strategy and the structural advantages of our platform and one in which our team executed with discipline, clarity and conviction. The second quarter began with unusual volatility, especially in April across mortgages, treasuries and the swap market.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

The market struggled with liquidity. We saw unpredictable price action and dislocation not seen since early twenty twenty. While the broader market contended with volatility uncertainty, we remain focused and fully engaged. In many respects, this quarter validated the value of our proactive positioning, liquidity discipline and long term orientation. We took advantage of the significant value created by widespread and market uncertainty.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

We executed on our strategic plan. We grew the investment portfolio by over $3,000,000,000 in the quarter. As Rob mentioned, we raised capital methodically above book value. We deployed that capital in Agency MBS in a measured and strategic way. Moreover, as the policy environment became more supportive, we strategically increased our leverage from 7.4% last quarter to 8.3% in the second quarter.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Our ability to be proactive with portfolio growth and leverage was directly supported by our strong cash liquidity and the continued health of the mortgage repo market. When volatility spikes, we benefit from a steady stream of insights from our trusted financing partners. That helps us stay agile and well informed. Throughout the second quarter, mortgage repo markets remained stable in both pricing and availability. Spreads to SOFR consistently held in the 15 to 20 basis point range, similar to what we saw in the first quarter with ample capacity across term structures out to three and six months.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

That constructive funding environment gave us the confidence to lean in knowing we had the liquidity and balance sheet flexibility to take advantage of compelling opportunities as they emerge. Agency mortgage backed securities continue to offer what we view as the best combination of liquidity, credit quality and return potential in fixed income today. ROEs on newly acquired positions when fully hedged with interest rate swaps are currently ranging from the mid teens to the low 20% range. That's attractive by any standard, and these are transparent, high quality, money good assets. While many other assets from corporate bonds to equities retrace completely or even eclipse levels seen before the April tariff announcement, mortgages remain not far off the cheapest levels of April.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Mortgages are extremely cheap relative to corporate bonds. That is primarily due to a mixed technical picture in the medium term. Net supply of Agency RMBS remained low by historical standards and demand has yet to fully materialize, creating a medium term headwind for spread tightening. Many money managers remain overweight the sector. And although banks did reenter the market earlier in the year, further participation may be delayed until there is greater clarity around the Fed's rate cutting path.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Until then, technicals are supportive of spreads remaining historically wide, allowing us to execute on our raise and deploy strategy. For investors like us with stable capital and long investment horizon, we can continue to harvest the historic yield spread for our shareholders. Security selection continues to be a key source of value for us. With over 10 active coupons in the market, we identified attractive opportunities across a wide range of Agency RMBS and even in the Agency CMBS market. While we expect exposure to Agency CMBS to remain modest as a share of the total portfolio, we added selectively in the quarter where the risk adjusted return profile aligned with our broader strategy.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

In addition to offering compelling relative value, Agency CMBS helped diversify and stabilize the portfolio's cash flow and total return profile given their unique prepayment characteristics and underlying asset base. Our team brings deep expertise in analyzing and underwriting agency guaranteed securities at the loan level, which gives us a durable advantage in identifying relative value others may miss. That same strength I mentioned in terms of liquidity, risk posture and funding also enhances our ability to take advantage of opportunities within the coupon stack and across specified pools. At present, we are carrying a deliberate bias toward lower coupons, which we believe are poised to outperform, especially when mortgage rates decline even just modestly. The second quarter was exactly the kind of period in which our strategy shines.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

We stayed disciplined, stuck to our playbook and took advantage of a window in the market to lock in assets we believe will perform across a wide range of macro outcomes. This remains an exceptional environment for long term capital deployment in our space, and I couldn't be more confident in our positioning as we look ahead. The current environment remains highly favorable with wide agency MBS spreads supported by a technical backdrop where many traditional buyers have yet to return, allowing private capital like Dynex to extract historic return from mortgage yields relative to hedges. While policy fundamentals and technicals may remain volatile and event risk elevated, we are well prepared and well positioned to capitalize on these dynamics and generate strong risk adjusted returns. I will turn it over to Byron.

Byron Boston
Byron Boston
Chairman, Co-CEO & Director at Dynex Capital

Thank you, TJ. We are executing on a strategic vision that incorporates culture and core values as well as a keen focus on macroeconomic factors. Future oriented strategic thinking is at the core of how we operate the company. Our disciplined thought process permeates from the board on down and influences all of our decisions. We believe this stewardship mindset to be the foundation of our ongoing differentiated performance.

Byron Boston
Byron Boston
Chairman, Co-CEO & Director at Dynex Capital

Samantha and I are leading the company to earn investors trust to be their choice of ethical asset manager focused on performance and long term stewardship of their capital. I'll now turn it back over to Smriti for closing comments.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

Thanks, Byron. As you've heard from my colleagues, we are laser focused on generating long term returns, and dividends are a big piece of how we create value for shareholders. We've now increased our dividend above pre COVID levels. Looking ahead, we see meaningful value to unlock through future growth, stronger stock liquidity and the growing appeal of our high quality, ethically managed and highly liquid investment platform. Operator, we will now open the call to questions.

Operator

Your first question comes from a boss George with KBW.

Bose George
Managing Director at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)

Hey, everyone. Good morning.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

Good

Bose George
Managing Director at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)

just wanted to ask about leverage. Can you just talk about the range you're targeting? Is this kind of the higher end of the range you're at? And also just related in terms of the mix of capital, preferred now has become a pretty small piece just as the common equity has Could we see that being bigger?

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

Bose. Good morning. Thanks for the question. I'll let TJ answer the more detailed question on leverage. But in general, we have flexed the leverage down when we believe the risk environment doesn't warrant sort of that incremental risk.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

One of the big shifts over last quarter was really the removal of some some tail risk events. You know, we had May 27, the tweet about the the GSE guarantees, the the one big beautiful bill act getting passed. And so in general, I think our our leverage today just reflects more of a return to normal. And, you know, at this point, you're seeing the high teens, mid twenties ROEs, and and we feel like that is that is really a great place for us to be an investor. In general, you will see us flex the leverage higher when we believe that the risk environment warrants it.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

So at this point, I feel like we're just getting back to where we feel like we can we can generate that solid total return over time. TJ, I don't know if you have a diff any anything to add on that.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Sure. Yeah. As the quarter progressed, the risk in risk environment did improve. Over the course of the quarter, we increased leverage very methodically as policy uncertainty lifted. Initially, we focused on mortgages with a little bit more duration certainty to them, such as agency CMBS.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

And then over the course of the quarter, we started adding more thirty year mortgages. So it was definitely an evolution over the course of the quarter as that policy environment adjusted.

Bose George
Managing Director at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)

Okay. Great.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

And then to your second question on the capital structure, look, I think the most accretive thing for our shareholders to do right now is to raise capital above book and deploy that capital. The preferred markets have generally been very spotty and perhaps not even open at this point. You know, we're always ready to to to think through, you know, when and and how that that structure becomes accretive. But for now, the the focus is on the common.

Bose George
Managing Director at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)

Okay. Great. And then could I just get an update on book value quarter to date?

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Sure. Yeah. As of Friday, book value was nearly unchanged from quarter end after taking out the accrued dividend to date.

Bose George
Managing Director at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)

Great. Thanks a lot.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

Sure.

Operator

Your next question comes from Doug Harter with UBS.

Douglas Harter
Douglas Harter
Equity Research Analyst at UBS Group

Great. Thank you. In your prepared remarks, you were talking about kind of some of the other investors in the mortgage backed space. Can you just give us your updated thoughts around kind of if, when or what conditions might require them to kind of be more active or or vice versa if they went the other way and, you know, what potential catalysts you see for for changes in spreads?

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Sure. Good morning, Doug. The banks are the big player that could potentially return. They were active in the first two months of the year, especially in agency CMOs, for instance, off of thirty year collateral. I think for a lot of those banks, they will return when they actually see more fed rate cuts.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

So to some extent, you need to see the actual rate cut happen, before they'll be active. Certainly, there are some large players that are highly sophisticated and can act before that or hedging with interest rate swaps, things of that nature. But for the bank community broadly, I think you need to see those funding rates come down on the front end of the yield curve. So that's one of the major players. The other money managers have been very active.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Their mortgages are extremely cheap relative to corporates. These are historic cheaps versus corporate bonds. So money managers have broadly been on that and overweight mortgages relative to corporates. And the story over the course of the quarter was simply one where money managers had outflows early in the quarter, mostly actually to buy stocks, which was a very interesting fund flow. So the money management community just had to sell mortgages as they got outflows from their bond funds.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Those fund flows returned later in the quarter, and they were back buying mortgages again. But broadly speaking, those players are overweight mortgages. So those are the the two big players. You know, increasingly, there's a need for more private capital in the agency mortgage market, and we are it. The mortgage REIT community is a huge marginal player.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

So outside of those two big ones, we're we're next. And on many days during the quarter, mortgage REITs were the marginal buyer, and we're, you know, continuing to raise capital, to deploy it. We're the in my mind, we're the manager of choice for the agency mortgage market. We, the mortgage REIT community. So that's a big one.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Overseas, would be another. You know, Japan remains a significant holder. They were actually a buyer. We have data through May. They were actually a buyer in May, which I thought was very interesting.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

In my calculus for, supply and demand, I've assumed almost nothing on net from, overseas demand. But on net, that's been a, a surprise to the upside. So those are the major players. I'd emphasize again, the mortgage REITs are continuing to grow as marginal source of demand for the agency mortgage market, as the market starts to realize that we're a fantastic vehicle, from which to do this trade.

Douglas Harter
Douglas Harter
Equity Research Analyst at UBS Group

Great. Thanks, TJ. And, you know, kind of also, can you give us your updated thoughts on swap spreads and, you know, kind of, how you see those playing out over the, you know, coming months?

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Yeah. Swap spreads, you know, I'll use the seven year points as an example down to, you know, 47 basis points below this morning anyway, below where treasuries were trading. That is incremental return that we can, extract. So the, you know, the kinds of ROEs that we're gonna produce in those you know, as I mentioned, in my prepared remarks, in the high teens and even low twenties reflect that. So minus you know, at minus 47, I think it's it's quite quite attractive, has a large margin of safety.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

So we can take an even larger widening. So a move to, let's say, minus 50, even minus 55, on a mark to market basis is fine given the carry that that you're enjoying over the course of the, of the year relative to treasuries.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

And I would just add to that, Doug. You know, in the medium to long term, we feel like this is an instrument that really incrementally benefits our shareholders from from a return on equity perspective, capital adjusted and everything else. So our willingness to take that short term spread fluctuation relative to where we ultimately believe these spreads will end up. We feel that is still a very good long term risk return trade off.

Douglas Harter
Douglas Harter
Equity Research Analyst at UBS Group

Great. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Alison Griffin
Alison Griffin
VP - IR at Dynex Capital

Sure.

Operator

Your next question comes from Eric Hagen with BTIG.

Eric Hagen
Managing Director at BTIG

Hey, thanks. Good morning, guys. Looks like there's currently 50 basis points of rate cuts priced into the forward curve that's through year end. If the Fed doesn't cut rates or it cuts fewer than the two cuts that are currently embedded in there, what do you think the response is for both rates and MBS spreads? How much risk do you think is like embedded in that scenario where they cut fewer than two times?

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Right. The way I approach that question is really through the supply and demand lens. Supply will remain very low, which it's continued to be. So if we don't have rate cuts, the supply picture remains very muted. On the demand front, banks we're sitting at these spreads basically without a bank bid for the better part of the last several months.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

So I think there's very little impact on spreads. Certainly, you know, just allows for investors like us to earn more spread over time. You know, it's a significant yield spread that we're earning today. Sure. Spread tightening would be great.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Book value would go up. We don't need that in order to, to make the kinds of returns our investors are expecting. The spread at today's level are compelling in and of themselves. So, certainly, I think there's a there's a chance that, that we don't get any rate cuts. The data is is very volatile.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

You know, at the margin, my personal view, the team's view here at Dynex is that, we will probably get 50 basis points of rate cuts this year, and the risks to that view are actually probably towards more cuts late in the year as we see the consumer potentially start to slow.

Eric Hagen
Managing Director at BTIG

That's good color. I appreciate that. What's the current thinking behind the coupon allocation between pools versus TBAs? Like if your allocation to TBAs was lower, would that presumably maybe drag down the yield on the portfolio a little bit? Or how should we think about the flexibility in adjusting the TBA position and still running above like eight times leverage?

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Yeah. Certainly, you know, the TBA position certainly impacts, you know, the the the accounting flows and how that flows through, and I'd let Rob comment on that. But specifically for the economic returns, the TBA rolls have been trading, you know, so for plus 15 to 25 late in late in various monthly cycles, they've been going out rolls for the current coupon have been going out a bit above, actually. The implied I should say the implied financing on the TBAs has been going out a bit above where we can repo mortgages. So I really like so that in and of itself favors owning some pools, and the pools pricing is very fair relative to current expectations for prepayments.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

We don't think in terms of today's, today's prepayments. We we need to think much more dynamically as mortgage investors. And so in a rally, some of these scenarios where, where we could have very fast prepayments on certain segments of the market, to me, it really favors a a larger pool position. So we have been working into a larger pool position and expect to continue to do so.

Eric Hagen
Managing Director at BTIG

Good color from you guys. Thank you.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

Great. Thanks, Your

Operator

next question comes from Trevor Cranston with JMP Securities.

Trevor Cranston
MD - Mortgage Finance Equity Research at JMP Securities LLC

Hey, thanks. Good morning. Good morning. You guys mentioned opportunistically adding some Agency CMBS to the portfolio this quarter. Can you just kind of give us an overview of where you're seeing returns on Agency CMBS right now relative to RMBS?

Trevor Cranston
MD - Mortgage Finance Equity Research at JMP Securities LLC

And kind of how, in general, you think about those fitting into the portfolio and how big relative to the RMBS position they could get over time?

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

Great. Thanks, Trevor. I'll just I'll just give you sort of the big picture thought process behind it. You know, agency CMBS, obviously, these are instruments guaranteed by Freddie Mac and and Fannie Mae. They have a very different risk profile in that these instruments, you know, they're locked out from prepayments depending on the structure.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

You have ten year instruments that are locked out from prepayments for nine and a half years or seven year instruments locked out for six and a half years or five year instruments locked out for four and a half years. So they have a very stable, economic return profile. And what, at this point, we're thinking through is, you know, where this return profile is coming from, where on the yield curve it makes sense for us to to deploy some capital. And really, of the the the main reasons for us driving into this space is our ability to hedge these and lock up that return with interest rate swaps, which currently have negative spreads to treasury. So the overall return profile really, really looks good and solid, you know, in terms of our our long term, you know, total return thinking.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

So, you know, call protected assets, agency guaranteed, more stable cash flows. They've always been a part of Dynex's portfolio and Dynex's thinking, And returns at this point are are really starting to be where as we think about where long term total returns, will eventually end up, they're starting to be compelling. And I'll let TJ give you the thought process between sort of RMBS versus versus CMBS returns, but that's the philosophy behind it.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Yeah. The and the positions, Trevor, that we've been purchasing are focused on the the five year part of the agency CMBS market. As Murphy mentioned, it's a very stable economic return profile. These bonds are trading around swaps plus 90 basis points. I think what's probably the most compelling about the space is is really the technical picture.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

When you think about those players I mentioned in terms of the supply and demand picture, this is a mature market now that is finally getting large enough to attract some of those large players. So it's trading remarkably well, banks as well as insurance companies. You look at annuity fund flows, have been huge over the last several years, and those players are starting to look more and more at So I think there's a a scenario where the total economic return profile of these bonds ends up, every bit as attractive, or every bit as compelling as you see on, say, thirty year RMBS. So you can add these to the portfolio and get a little bit more certainty in terms of the cash flows.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

And I think, ultimately, the total return profile is is every bit as good as those ROEs I mentioned on thirty years.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

I mean, mean, one other piece in here is, you know, thinking about curve positioning. This is a great way for us to add durable yields in the front end of the yield curve to the extent that that's the place, where there's either Fed activity or less volatility. So it's it's a nice stabilizer for the book.

Trevor Cranston
MD - Mortgage Finance Equity Research at JMP Securities LLC

Got it. Yeah. That makes sense. Okay. Thank you.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

Sure.

Operator

Your next question comes from Jason Stewart with Jones Trading.

Jason Stewart
Director - Mortgage Finance at Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. Hi, thanks. It's Jason with Janney. One follow-up on the hedge questioning. TJ, in terms of duration, any thoughts on adding longer duration as you go down in coupon on the hedge side?

Jason Stewart
Director - Mortgage Finance at Janney Montgomery Scott

And and if you do go longer duration, treasuries versus swaps, I mean, how are you thinking about that at the longer end of the curve?

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Sure. Yeah. Our hedges have remained focused on, you know, the longer part of the curve. Sevens and twenties are a big part of where our hedges are focused. We are, you know, targeting a duration that is generally flat in terms of the overall duration profile of the portfolio with that yield curve steepening bias, as Smriti mentioned, looking for those kinds of assets that are in the front end of the yield curve and hedging with some longer maturities, especially as we own some of the lower coupon thirty years sense.

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

In terms of treasuries versus swaps, to your question there, the book has been roughly, you know, two thirds interest rate swaps. Certainly, we have room to strategically increase or decrease that at any, you know, any given time. But I generally expect this to be kind of the way things looked at the end of the second quarter to be broadly a baseline for how we're thinking about the mix.

Jason Stewart
Director - Mortgage Finance at Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. So on the longer side, so thirty year and ten year futures, treasury futures, stick with that strategy. You're not going to go too much farther than ten to fifteen year swaps. Is is that what I'm hearing?

T.J. Connelly
T.J. Connelly
CIO at Dynex Capital

Yeah. The the book in the at the end of the quarter looked broadly how I would expect things to to look going forward. Obviously, you know, yield curve positioning is is a very dynamic market, so let me be be clear on that. So we could, you know, certainly adjust our curve position if and when our views change. But I think the end of the quarter was a good baseline.

Jason Stewart
Director - Mortgage Finance at Janney Montgomery Scott

Fair enough. And then Rob, on the G and A expense line item, anything one time in nature there? How should we think about that line item as you bring these functions that you discussed, in house?

Robert Colligan
Robert Colligan
CFO & COO at Dynex Capital

Sure. Thanks for the question. You know, the first half of the year always tends to be a little bit higher with annual meetings and a couple queues. We did have some compensation increases, probably in the range of 3 or $4,000,000 in the first half. And for us, you know, it's interesting.

Robert Colligan
Robert Colligan
CFO & COO at Dynex Capital

We're one of the first companies in our sector to report, which is good, but also some of our compensation is on a relative basis. So we'll see how that adjusts out throughout the rest of the year. But, yeah, we do tend to trend down q three and '4. I'd expect that to continue.

Jason Stewart
Director - Mortgage Finance at Janney Montgomery Scott

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the conference back over to Smriti Pompano for closing remarks.

Smriti Popenoe
Smriti Popenoe
Co-CEO, President & Director at Dynex Capital

Great. Thank you everyone for your time this morning and I look forward to updating you all on our progress next quarter. Have a great day.

Operator

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

Executives
    • Alison Griffin
      Alison Griffin
      VP - IR
    • Smriti Popenoe
      Smriti Popenoe
      Co-CEO, President & Director
    • Robert Colligan
      Robert Colligan
      CFO & COO
    • T.J. Connelly
      T.J. Connelly
      CIO
    • Byron Boston
      Byron Boston
      Chairman, Co-CEO & Director
Analysts
    • Bose George
      Managing Director at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW)
    • Douglas Harter
      Equity Research Analyst at UBS Group
    • Eric Hagen
      Managing Director at BTIG
    • Trevor Cranston
      MD - Mortgage Finance Equity Research at JMP Securities LLC
    • Jason Stewart
      Director - Mortgage Finance at Janney Montgomery Scott
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