Ameriprise Financial Q4 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
January 25, 2024

There are 15 speakers on the call.

Operator

Welcome to the 4th Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. My name is Christa, and I'll be your conference operator for today's call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. And as a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the call over to Alyssa Charity.

Operator

Alyssa, you may begin.

Speaker 1

Thank you, and good morning. Welcome to Ameriprise Financial's 4th Quarter Earnings Call.

Speaker 2

On the

Speaker 1

call with me today are Jim Cracciolo, Chairman and CEO and Walter Berman, Chief Financial Officer. Following their remarks, we'd be happy to take your questions. Turning to our earnings presentation materials that are available on our website, on Slide 2, you see a discussion of forward looking statements. Specifically, during the call, you will hear reference to various non GAAP financial measures, which we believe provide insight into company operations. Reconciliation of non GAAP numbers to their respective GAAP numbers can be found in today's materials and on our website.

Speaker 1

Some statements that we make on the call may be forward looking, reflecting management's expectations about future events and overall operating plans and performance. These forward looking statements speak only as of today's date and involve a number of risks and uncertainties. A sample list of factors and risks that could cause actual results to be materially different from forward looking statements can be found in our Q4 2023 earnings release, our 2022 annual report to shareholders and our 2022 10 ks report. We make no obligation to publicly update or revise these forward looking statements. On Slide 3, You see our GAAP financial results at the top of the page for the Q4.

Speaker 1

Below that, you see adjusted operating results, which management believes enhances the understanding of our business by reflecting the underlying performance of our core operations and facilitates a more meaningful trend analysis. Many of the comments that management makes on the call today will focus on adjusted operating results. And with that, I'll turn it over to Jim.

Speaker 3

Good morning, everyone. I hope that 2024 started off well for each of you. As you saw in our earnings release, Ameriprise delivered a strong 4th quarter to complete an excellent year. I'm proud of our team and what we've accomplished. We've navigated the environmental uncertainty well, supported our clients and further demonstrated the strength of our value propositions.

Speaker 3

Regarding the operating environment, what was more positive to end 2023 and start the New Year, we know there are questions regarding of economic growth, inflation and the timing of interest rate reductions. Of course, markets are unpredictable. However, at Ameriprise, our expertise is preparing both our clients and the business to be successful even in an uncertain climate. Now with that backdrop, let's move to our results. For the quarter, revenue growth continued to be robust, up 8%, reflecting good organic growth and positive markets.

Speaker 3

We again generated strong earnings growth with EPS up 10% or 14% normalized for the items referenced in our press release and our nearly 50% ROE is consistently among the best in the industry. We also delivered excellent full year adjusted operating results. Excluding unlocking and the items we referenced, revenue was $15,400,000,000 up 8%. Earnings increased 18% to $3,300,000,000 And our EPS was $30.46 up another 24%. In fact, these are record results for Ameriprise And assets under management and administration were near an all time high at $1,400,000,000,000 Across the firm, we're very well positioned to help investors with our compelling client experience and complement the businesses, capabilities and talented team.

Speaker 3

With regard to some business highlights, Wealth Management delivered another strong quarter. Our efforts are centered on engaging more people in our advice based client experience, which helps our clients achieve more of their goals and creates higher satisfaction, net flows and productivity growth. Client acquisition was up nicely in the quarter, especially in the $500,000,000 to $5,000,000 client segment. Total client assets increased to a new record of $901,000,000,000 up 19 percent and client flows were approximately $23,000,000,000 Total transactional activity picked up a bit in the quarter. However, given the environment, clients continue to maintain higher cash levels With assets and cash products growing to about $82,000,000,000 Over time, we expect these assets will be further deployed as clients return to the markets more fully.

Speaker 3

Year after year, our Pfizer productivity growth is consistently among the best in the industry. In fact, it increased another 11% to a new high of $916,000 per advisor in the quarter. Our field force is highly engaged and they value the Ameriprise culture as do the experienced advisors we recruit. In the quarter, we brought on board 166 productive advisors, which includes the Co Merica advisors who joined us. Recruits tell us that associating with Ameriprise has given them a strong client value proposition, integrated technology and the leadership support they need to provide 1st class service to their clients and grow their practices.

Speaker 3

Our bank continues to provide benefits and grow nicely. Bank and certificate assets increased 28 percent to $37,000,000,000 We see good opportunity here to further deepen client relationships and bring in more of our client assets that they hold at other banking institutions. As you can see, our consistent focus and investment in the business is driving strong results. And we're not standing still. We continue to invest significantly to drive further efficiency in organic growth.

Speaker 3

Advisors using our integrated e meeting capability, customer relationship platform and online advisor dash Let's find that these tools enhance their ability to deliver for clients and manage their practices as well as identify growth opportunities. We're also leveraging advanced analytics and accelerating enhancements to our mobile and digital experiences on our public and secure sites to engage more clients and prospects. I'd also highlight that Ameriprise brand awareness is strong and steady and our growth opportunity continues to be significant. Client and prospects across segments need meaningful contact and advice more than ever and that's where we're concentrating. Earlier this month, I met with our field leaders to kick off the year.

Speaker 3

They're highly engaged and energized about our position and ability to build on our in 2024. Next, in Retirement and Protection, we're driving good sales. These solutions help serve our clients' comprehensive needs and the business is consistently a strong earnings contributor. The team is focused on providing a best in class experience with an ease of doing business and it's resulting in better sales. Total variable annuity sales were up 15% with good sales in our structured product.

Speaker 3

Protection sales were up 6% driven by our higher margin VUL product. In addition, we just introduced new enhancements to our core product lines to help further serve our clients' evolving protection and income needs. Moving to asset management. We continue to serve clients in an evolving market. Assets under management grew nicely in the 4th quarter, up 9% to $637,000,000,000 driven by market appreciation and positive foreign exchange.

Speaker 3

In terms of some color on flows, our U. S. Retail mutual fund outflows were in line with the industry. Though they remain pressured, we had a bit of a pickup in gross sales and redemptions have slowed from a year ago. UK Retail remains soft and we're seeing some improvements in Europe.

Speaker 3

For Global Institutional, our outflows were elevated as we expected due to the actions we've set to realign resources, including portfolio management changes. Our product capabilities are extensive and the team is concentrating on regaining sales momentum. Performance is critical to that and we're delivering consistent competitive investment performance that reflects our research expertise. Our 3, 5 and 10 year numbers are very strong and we saw a nice pickup in the 1 year fixed income numbers. And I highlight that we continue to have 113, 4 and 5 Star, Morning Star rated funds in our lineup.

Speaker 3

Like other active managers, managing industry pressure and doing a great deal to refine our operating processes while reducing expenses globally. We're enhancing our efficiency and effectiveness, while making good investments, including in data and analytics. We're focused on leveraging our performance as well as our global distribution and servicing capabilities. So for Ameriprise, It was another great year and a continuation of our significant growth over many years. In addition, we built on our record of strong financial performance including generating one of the best ROEs in the industry.

Speaker 3

And with that, consistently demonstrate our ability to return to shareholders. In the Q4, Ameriprise returned another $587,000,000 and For the full year, we returned $2,500,000,000 to shareholders. Over the last 5 years, we returned a substantial amount to shareholders that resulted in a share count reduction of 25%. As I look at Ameriprise, we continue to be well positioned. The strong performance we achieved is underscored by the industry accolades Ameriprise consistently earns.

Speaker 3

Over the course of the year, this is the type of recognition we receive, 4.9 out of 5 stars in client satisfaction from our clients. Our employee and advisor engagement ranks among the best across all industries. We have one of the highest customer trust scores in financial services. J. D.

Speaker 3

Power has awarded us for outstanding customer service experience for advisor phone support 5 years in a row. Ameriprise is the winner in the wealth management category from Kiplinger's. In addition, we've been recognized as a military friendly employer 9 years in a row and as a best place to work for disability inclusion. Finally, Ameriprise is among the best managed companies of 2023 on the Wall Street Journal Management Top 250 list. For the firm overall, as we enter 130th year in the business, our foundation and business are strong.

Speaker 3

I'm immensely proud of our people and we have a great opportunity to continue our success together in 2024. Now I'll turn things over to Walter and then we'll take your questions.

Speaker 4

Thank you, Jim. As Jim said, strong results this quarter continue to demonstrate the leverage of our diversified business model across market cycles. Underlying EPS grew 14% to $7.75 after adjusting for items in the quarter that we called out in the release. These included $0.28 of expense related to a regulatory accrual, $0.14 from severance expense and elevated mark to market impacts on share based compensation expense of $0.13 resulting from Ameriprise's substantial share price appreciation. You would not have been aware of these items and their associated magnitude.

Speaker 4

Assets under management and administration ended the quarter at $1,400,000,000,000 up 15% benefiting from $36,000,000,000 of client flows In 2023 and market appreciation. Across the firm, we continue to manage expenses tightly relative to the revenue opportunity within each segment. G and A increased only 2% normalized to the items I noted. We continue to take a disciplined approach on discretionary expenses across the firm to manage margins given the uncertainty in the macro environment as evidenced by the $26,000,000 of severance recognized in the 3rd and 4th quarters. At the same time, We continue to make investments to drive business growth, particularly in Wealth Management.

Speaker 4

As we move into 2024, We will continue the same discipline and we'll maintain a flat expense base for the year at a minimum. Our consolidated margin was 26.4% excluding the items I noted and we have a best in class return on equity of 48.5%. The balance sheet fundamentals remain strong. Our excess capital and liquidity positions remain strong And we've seen a significant $1,800,000,000 reduction in the net unrealized loss position to only 1,500,000,000 Our diversified business model benefits from significant and stable 90% free cash flow contributions across all business segments. This allowed us to return $2,500,000,000 of capital to shareholders in the year, a continuation of our differentiated track record.

Speaker 4

Lastly, I mentioned that Ameriprise successfully expanded its presence in the financial institutions channel We're closing on a partnership with Comerica Bank in November that added an initial $15,000,000,000 of client flows. Given the timing of the conversion, there was limited financial benefit in the quarter. On Slide 6, you'll see our strong results in 2023 were driven by business momentum across key measures. Assets grew 15% with revenues up 8%, Pre tax adjusted operating earnings grew 10% and the pre tax adjusted operating margin was 26.4%. The birthright nature of our businesses strengthens our model and drives our consistent performance.

Speaker 4

It is this balance that enables Ameriprise to consistently drive shareholder value across market cycles. The key growth driver of Ameriprise is the Wealth Management business As you can see on Slide 7, Wealth Management client assets increased 19% year over year to $901,000,000,000 driven by strong organic growth and client flows along with higher equity markets. We had $53,000,000,000 of net inflows over the past year with $23,000,000,000 coming in the quarter from new clients joining the firm. The deepening of existing relationships and adding experienced advisors. Revenue per advisors reached 916,000 in the quarter, up 11% from the prior year from higher spread revenue, enhanced productivity and business growth.

Speaker 4

On Slide 8, you can see how the business performance drove strong financial results for Wealth Management. In the quarter, Adjusted operating net revenues increased 8% to $2,400,000,000 from growth in client assets in both RAP and brokerage accounts and improved transactional activity. This included about $15,000,000,000 of initial flows related to Comerica Partnership in addition to the $8,000,000,000 of underlying client flows. While markets were favorable in the quarter, We did not realize the full benefit of the market appreciation in the quarter given our beginning of month billing practice. We are starting the year with the wind at our backs with the significant market appreciation to end the year.

Speaker 4

Total cash balance including 3rd party money market funds and brokered CDs reached a new high this quarter at $81,500,000,000 We have seen stability in our underlying client cash positions with free cash up 4% sequentially. This stabilization has continued into January. Additionally, we continue to see new money flowing into money market funds and brokered CDs as well as into our certificates. This creates a significant redeployment opportunities As markets normalize for clients to put money back to work and wrap and other products on our platform over time, The financial benefits from cash remains significant and will be a sustainable source of earnings going forward. Adjusted operating expenses in the quarter increased 9% with distribution expense up 10% reflecting higher asset balances.

Speaker 4

Excluding the regulatory accrual, G and A declined 1% in the quarter and was up only 4% for the full year. We will continue to invest in this growing business while maintaining this expense discipline in 2024. In total, The underlying margin expanded 40 basis points to 30.3 percent reflecting our revenue growth combined with expense discipline. This level is consistent with our margin for the full year. Turning to asset management on Slide 9.

Speaker 4

Financial results were very strong in the quarter And we are managing the business well through a challenging environment for active asset managers. Total AUM increased 9% to $637,000,000,000 primarily from higher equity markets and foreign exchange translation, partially offset by net outflows. Like other active managers, we experienced pressure in retail flows from global market volatility and a risk off investor sentiment. In addition, we had $3,000,000,000 of institutional outflows That included $2,000,000,000 of expected breakage from portfolio management changes made as part of our reengineering initiatives. Investment performance is another critical area of focus and long term 3, 5 10 year investment performance remains strong.

Speaker 4

We also had notable improvements in 1 year fixed income performance in the quarter from strength in mortgage opportunities, tax exempt and strategic municipal income strategies. In the quarter, operating earnings increased 194,000,000 As a result of equity market appreciation, disciplined expense management and higher performance fees, which more than offset the cumulative impact of net outflows. Performance fees are an important part of our business and reflect excellent performance in our hedge fund and other institutional accounts, but the recognition of performance fees is uneven throughout the year. While we had $30,000,000 in performance fees in both 2023 2022, The Q4 this year included $21,000,000 in performance fees and the Q4 of 2022 only included $5,000,000 We are finalizing the integration of BMO and are looking globally at areas where we can enhance operational efficiency and managed expenses, so we are well positioned going forward. G and A was down 4%, excluding the impact from foreign exchange translation and performance fee compensation and the margin was in our target range of 32% in the quarter.

Speaker 4

Looking ahead, as Jim said, we will continue to take further expense action in 2024 given the environment to preserve margin and our target range. Let's turn to Slide 10. Retirement and Protection Solutions continue to deliver Good earnings and free cash flow generation reflecting the high quality of the business that has been built over a long period of time. Pre tax adjusted operating earnings in the quarter increased 2% to 202,000,000 reflecting higher investment yields. Overall, Retirement Protection Solutions sales improved in the quarter With protection sales up 6% to $72,000,000 primarily in higher margin BUL products, Variable annuity sales grew 15% to $1,100,000,000 with the majority of sales and structured variable annuities.

Speaker 4

Turning to Slide 11, Ameriprise delivered excellent growth in 2023 and has done the same over the longer term and through changing market cycles, reflecting our focus on profitable growth. In 2023, Revenues grew 8% from higher interest earnings, higher equity markets and solid client net inflows. Earnings per share increased 21% from last year from revenue trends, well managed expenses and differentiated capital return and ROE increased 2.90 basis points to nearly 49%. Over the past 5 years, we have generated 6% revenue and 15% EPS compounded annual growth and 11.70 basis points of improvement in ROE. This is differentiated performance across multiple cycles compared to our peers and speaks to the complementary nature of our business mix and the growth of our Wealth Management business.

Speaker 4

Turning to Slide 12, you can see Wealth Management was a significant contributor to Ameriprise's successful performance Driving 2 thirds of the company's operating earnings, our advisors are becoming more productive with the support of our advice model With revenue per advisor of $916,000 in the year, up 8% on an annualized basis from 2018 And we are growing profitably with 16% growth in pre tax earnings since 2018. And over that timeframe, our wealth management margin has expanded 840 basis points to nearly 31%, putting it at industry leading levels. Now let's finish with the balance sheet on Slide 13. Our solid balance sheet fundamentals and free cash flow generation have supported our ability to execute a consistent capital return strategy, while continuing to invest for growth. In 2023, we returned $2,500,000,000 to shareholders with $587,000,000 in the 4th quarter.

Speaker 4

But over the past 5 years, we returned $12,000,000,000 to shareholders through dividends and share repurchase. This included the repurchase of 41,000,000 shares at an average price of $2.15 resulting in a net reduction in our share count of 25%. Looking ahead, capital management will continue to be a point of differentiation for Ameriprise. With that, we will take your questions.

Operator

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Your first question comes from the line of Brennan Hawken from UBS. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 5

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I'd like to start with The bank, so we've got $3,000,000,000 I believe you've indicated that there's expectation for $3,000,000,000 of maturities Can you give a sense, given where rates are in the market today, what kind of yield pickup you're likely to see on those balances? And whether or not you have visibility into what those maturities might be in 2025?

Speaker 4

Sure. So the let me in 2025, we anticipate it will still be 25,000,000,000. Again, these are pay off from that standpoint. And when we look at it, let me answer the question. This way from a net interest income standpoint, When we evaluate looking at various scenarios and using the polar curves, the generation in 2024 2025 will be higher than that in 2023 because again, the rates we have been adding at a very Rates close to 6% and that were an off will be basically coming through and our reinvestments, the differentials will still allow us to have a higher net interest income in 2024 2025.

Speaker 4

But it's $3,000,000,000 in both years.

Speaker 5

$3,000,000,000 Okay. Thank you very much. And then one Sort of mechanical question. So quarter over quarter off balance sheet broker dealer yield compressed pretty substantially, but it's my understanding that that's tied to the $2,500,000,000 of cash sweep tied to Comerica. So was is that right and was that due to like some kind of promotional or temporary crediting rate and when is

Speaker 4

that expected to roll off and normalize? So if we're talking about now the off balance sheet Right. Yes. On a sequential basis, is that what you're referring to?

Speaker 5

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 3

Thank you.

Speaker 4

So that yes, so we did take on a $2,500,000,000 America and that will transition through over the next 6 months. And so you should certainly that will work towards the rate increasing, but our base rate is basically stayed the same ex Coal America. There's been no change. Okay.

Speaker 5

Great. Thank you. Your

Operator

next question comes from the line of Ryan Krueger from KBW. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 6

Hey, thanks. Good morning. First, I just wanted to follow-up on the comment on net interest income. In terms of 2024 and 2025 expecting to be higher than 2023, What did you can you give us any sense of what you assumed in terms of the forward rate when you made that comment? Was that Using the forward curve or any more color there?

Speaker 4

We are using the forward curve in that and then we run sensitive. But what my statement was referring to on was forward curve, the latest forward curve.

Speaker 6

Okay, great. And then just in terms of The size of the bank, can you give any color on kind of expectations for potentially moving some of the cash suite balance into the bank and how what you think the bank asset size could grow to over the course of 2024? Sure.

Speaker 4

So right now, we are seeing stability and really a little growth in our sweep accounts. So we feel very comfortable And we still have buffer there. So we are evaluating that, but we'll be more measured as we go forward because we've certainly placed and shifted a substantial amount, but you would see that it will be increasing, but at a slower pace as we evaluate these rebalances that support that. So I would say that it will be increasing, but at a slower pace.

Speaker 7

Okay, great. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Alex Blostein from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead with your question. Alex, please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 7

Hey, good morning. Can you guys hear me? Yes.

Speaker 8

Hi, how are you? Thanks. So I wanted to ask you guys a question around a substantial amount of cash that you guys have on the sidelines. I think it was north of $30,000,000,000 And I know you sort of talked about some of that coming into some of the investment product. But As you sort of think about what are the likely areas where this capital could go into, with respect to wrap accounts or something else, how would you frame that and maybe talk through of the revenue lift that you could get from that?

Speaker 4

You're talking about where our cash sits today on?

Speaker 8

So not stuff that's in the sweep, right? But there has been other capital that I think essentially earning you guys not a whole lot, whether it's the CDs money market funds, where do those balances are and where that could shift?

Speaker 3

Yes. So those balances are in money markets and brokered CDs short term that will roll off. And so as they do, I think advisors will evaluate whether they put that back into the market. And if they did, I would probably say a portion of that would go back, a reasonable portion We'll go back most likely into wrap type programs, in balance type portfolios, which would include both equities and fixed income, etcetera, alternatives. On the other side of it, there we've seen a bit of a pickup in some transactional activity as well in the Q4.

Speaker 3

So some of that will go back into transactional type activities as they look at longer duration type products as well. So again, that's really as advisors look at the market and they put money to work over time for their clients.

Speaker 8

I got you. Thanks. And then my second question was just around operating leverage for the firm and obviously encouraging to hear your comments around G and A outlook. If you roll that through, it seems like the margin in the asset management business could be materially than sort of your longer term ranges. Obviously, not a terrible thing, but as you sort of think about Those historical targets, are they still something you're trying to manage the business to or it's really just kind of more of the output because The fees are obviously off to a very good start in 2024 and expenses are going to be very tightly managed.

Speaker 4

Yes. So obviously, we've and very proactive in managing and to control aspect of that on the expenses, not just in AWM, even in AM, but across the board. So yes, obviously, it will be dependent on several factors as it relates to markets or other things as it relates to margin. But with Right. I'm not going to forecast exactly where it goes, but I think we feel comfortable that we have put in place our control of G and A at Asset Management and that we have the capability with the right set of condition sets going on with markets.

Speaker 4

And certainly if we As we get make progress on our flows that is certainly going to increase. But right now we're comfortable with the current levels that we have, but we have the potential.

Speaker 8

Okay, great. Thank you very much.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Steven Chubak from Wolfe Research. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 9

Hey, good morning. So wanted to start off with just a Question on the AWM margin. Just given some of your larger warehouse peers have guided to lower wealth margins For the next few quarters, given the absence of NII tailwinds, incremental investments to sustain organic growth, you noted, Walter, that your spread revenues will be more resilient in 'twenty four, but do you believe you can sustain that north of 30% pretax margin in AWM even in the face of rate cuts in line with the forward curve?

Speaker 4

Yes. I think that we have reasonable confidence that we will be able to sustain, But obviously, there are variables that go into that. But as I indicated, our net interest income was 2024 will certainly be higher than 2023. So

Speaker 3

Yes,

Speaker 4

I think we have a reasonable level of confidence in that.

Speaker 9

That's great. And just for my follow-up on capital return, The payout came in below the 80% target. Apologies if I missed this, but just wanted to get a sense as to how we should be thinking about the payout trajectory over the next few quarters, especially in light of the robust excess capital generation that we've been seeing?

Speaker 4

So, yes, we came in at 79. I would agree with you for the year, we missed. And right now, our capacity and capability certainly remains very strong as you from balance sheet elements and certainly our generation. So I would think that a continuation of that strategy is Probably a reasonable expectation.

Speaker 9

That's great. Thanks so much for taking my questions.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Suneet Kamath from Jefferies. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 10

Great. Thanks. Just wanted to start with the asset management business and the expense reductions that you're doing there. Clearly, you're trying to defend your margin, which I understand. It feels like we're starting to see potentially some commercial impacts there.

Speaker 10

I think you alluded to some outflows related to headcount reduction. So I guess My question is, how are you thinking about sort of trying to balance that, right, where you're cutting expenses, but at the same time, potentially seeing Some negative commercial impacts?

Speaker 3

Well, from our that what

Speaker 4

you saw from basically the breakage that we took, It wasn't basically a proactive evaluation of the payback that we were getting. So that was a conscious decision on our part. Our expense plan has been basically evaluated on the base, looking at March, but looking at process and how we can improve efficiency. So we feel very good about. There is some basically spillover effects as you get to managing that ultimate return and some we will get breakage.

Speaker 4

We believe the breakage certainly we saw what we saw this year. There'll be some in but manageable taking place in 2024, but manageable. But again, it's a conscious decision on our part and we feel we give them opportunities to certainly redeploy the money in other products that we have. So it's again, it's we are controlling what we can and which is on the G and A expense and it's through a conscious review of expense management.

Speaker 10

Okay, got it. And then just to level set on that $82,000,000,000 cash number that you talked about. I mean if I think about that relative to total client assets, it seems like it's upwards around 8%, 9%, which is almost 2x, I think what you guys normally would expect. Is that the right way to think about it? And then over time, as rates kind of normalize, that kind of 8% to 9% Cash balance would probably trickle back down to somewhere in that 4% to 5% range and that's really the opportunity set that's in front of you in that business?

Speaker 3

Yes, Suneet. So it is sort of like double the amount that clients are holding usually compared to where they used to be. And again, advisors look at it with their clients and they're getting a 5 plus yield on it, just to sit tight unclear about the market moves, etcetera. So I do believe that over Time that money will be redeployed, but holding at higher rates right now, it's not an uncomfortable thing for clients that are advisors to keep extra cash there.

Speaker 10

And is there any reason why that money wouldn't come to Ameriprise? I mean it sounds like it's in products outside of your firm, but obviously your advisors do holistic financial planning. So is there any reason why either from a diversification perspective or anything why that money might want to stay outside of In

Speaker 3

fact, the money is at Ameriprise. The advisors have just put it into whether money market or broken CDs, Where there was a bigger lineup of broken CDs before we had our bank and CDs that we'll be launching. So, I think it's very, But they just as they did that, they put it into our own certificate program as well and that grew nicely. It's up to $13,000,000,000 in total. So I think it was just the outlets for where the to park the cash.

Speaker 3

I think as we put more bank products in As we develop the bank, some of that will go into our bank products. We think also there's an opportunity for us to capture more cash from our clients holding it at their banking institutions. So, but the money that's currently that $81,000,000,000 here is at Ameriprise And as that rolls over or opportunity the advisors see to rebalance accounts, they'll put that money to work.

Speaker 10

Okay, got it. Thanks Jim.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Tom Gallagher from Evercore ISI. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 11

Good morning. First Question, just on the layoffs in asset management, I think it was 12 p. M. S. Can you comment on the size of the AUM That they were managing and what exactly happened there?

Speaker 11

Did you merge or close any funds? Did you replace them? Just a little more color there. Thanks.

Speaker 4

Well, for the breakage, it was basically on that one we closed upon. And Obviously, we look for alternatives and was institutional. And then the other funds, we feel there are opportunities where we can basically merge them into other products that we have and to get the efficiencies and effect them out. So it's a careful review of it and we just felt based on payback, it would make sense

Speaker 11

And Walter, the total AUM related to the layoffs, are you able to provide that?

Speaker 4

Right now, of the $2,000,000,000 was basically the full that was the amount in that fund pretty much.

Speaker 11

Right. But of the I think it was 12 PMs that were let go. Are you able to size that in the entirety?

Speaker 4

I would have to get back to you exactly on the 12, but I think the majority was still related back to the breakers that we see. But let me get back to you on that.

Speaker 11

Okay. All right. Thanks. The redeployment Out of corporate into the segments, I think it's around $15,000,000 Can you explain What happened there? And was it all NII or what happened on that reallocation of the segments?

Speaker 4

Yes. So what we have obviously intercompany cash transferring that goes between the segments and we evaluated AWM that The crediting rate that we were giving that was not really, I would say, on Sunday and market driven. And so we adjusted it based upon the conditions that we today and that will be something that will remain in AWM's profitability going forward based as long as the levels stay where they are. The second one was really an element of relating to we looked at our models as it relates to RPS and it was It was not the right rate. It was that we were just not crediting them with the right amount, simple as that.

Speaker 4

And yes, it's in all net interest income and it has no effect on the company that shifts the money.

Speaker 11

Right. Just a reallocation among segments. That makes sense. And then just final follow-up, this 90% sustainable free cash flow conversion, you returned 80% in 2023. Do you plan on Stepping that back up to 90% in 2024?

Speaker 11

Or should we expect it to remain closer to 80%? Do you have an idea

Speaker 4

of where? As we said, it's opportunistic. We have the capacity. We certainly, as you see, we generate a lot of free cash flow and we evaluate that as looking at the opportunities we are continuing to invest in our business, so that's not a constraining factor. So I would say right now, It's a reasonable estimate to disassemble the level that we just had and then we will adjust to be opportunistic about it.

Speaker 11

Okay. Thanks.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Kenneth Lee from RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 12

Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Just one on the expense management initiatives. Are there any wondering if you could just further flesh it out, looking for any other areas outside of Asset Management and perhaps wondering if you could just give a little bit in terms of Time frames, are these actions all to be completed within this year? Thanks.

Speaker 4

Yes. So what you saw to 26 $1,000,000 severance and certainly our plans that these are all actionable and certainly from our standpoint have already been put into play. And so we are you should see the benefit of that materializing as we relate. We're basically looking that our expenses for 20 And 24 will be flat at a minimum and obviously we continue to make substantial investments in the various businesses especially in AWM. So we have pretty high confidence on this.

Speaker 12

Got you. Very helpful. And then just one follow-up. Any updated thinking in terms of potential reinsurance transaction on the RPO side, just given recent industry developments and the rate environment? Thanks.

Speaker 4

Yes. Listen, we have certainly observed the recent transactions and we feel that it creates an opportunity. And from that standpoint, as we always said, we're always looking for the bid ask. And I think those bid ask are certainly in common alignment and it provides an opportunity.

Speaker 12

Got you. Very helpful. Thanks again.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Mark McLaughlin from Bank of America. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 7

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I believe in your opening remarks, you had mentioned you seen a stabilization of cash levels through January. I was just curious if you had any more color year to date on that. I would have Expected more redeployments just from seasonality, rebalancing and distributions and the like?

Speaker 4

In the suite of accounts, and this is as of 2 days ago, we have seen a complete stabilization from that standpoint, a little increase. So we're obviously observing. We understand the seasonality of it. But certainly, It's what I indicated and that's through 2 days ago.

Speaker 7

Awesome. And then my other question had to do with Retirement and Protection, you guys had a pretty sizable pickup in the yield for your net investment income. I was curious if you could give us an update on any color in the investment profile of that book, Just trying to get a better idea of sensitivity to rates there.

Speaker 4

No, that's invested out now. We took advantage of the rate situation as resource. So that is pretty much completed at this view. And also as I indicated, it will get to pick up going forward of certainly the intercompany cash.

Speaker 7

Awesome. Thank you so much.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of John Barmage from Piper Sandler.

Speaker 13

Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. In this PM reduction in asset management, clearly followed a thorough review. In that review, were there areas of growth identified? Are you looking to get larger in any specific products that maybe have come to surface out of that PM review?

Speaker 3

Yes. So, what we did is we had some Teams that we felt they're managing small levels of assets and it wasn't economical for us in those areas. But we have good teams that could have assumed those assets and have good performance. So we made adjustments there. But in so doing, yes, we have reviewed our overall front office and all of the products and the portfolios and the capabilities that we have on the investment We feel there's a good opportunity.

Speaker 3

We always have that in the equity part of the arena, but we feel really that we do have a good fixed and credit shop and that we think there's opportunity for us to actually get a greater fair share there as we And so but we've evaluated that both domestically and internationally. And we're picking our pockets of where we really want to double down.

Speaker 13

Thank you for that. And then my follow-up question is around the risk transfers and the comment about the bid and ask. You've seen the market change a little bit to include 3rd party side cars. Would that be an area of interest?

Speaker 4

Well, we've looked at it and can be for us probably Not because of the most people enter into that for growth purposes and we have a fairly large share. So probably

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Michael Cyprys from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 2

Hey, good morning and thank you for taking the question. This is Timo Wang Kuo stepping in for Mike Cypress at Morgan Stanley. Just wanted to ask a bigger a question about the opportunity set for broadening out your affiliation options. We've clearly seen a lot of growth coming through the RIA channel in particular. I'm just curious how you guys are thinking about the opportunity to capture some of that growth?

Speaker 3

Yes, the team is focused on the RIA channel as Well, in developing our distribution platform capabilities there and we will put some emphasis there as we move forward as part of our intermediary distribution capabilities.

Speaker 2

Excellent. Thank you. And as a follow-up, somewhat related, can you tell us a little bit more about what tech initiatives you have in place at the moment for advisers in terms of What you're doing to help the Ameriprise platform stand out and differentiates itself in the marketplace and particularly what you have coming over the next say 12 to 24 months in terms of tech pipeline?

Speaker 3

Yes. We feel unbelievably good about our total platform for the advisors. From a combination of CRM platform, which is the latest and the greatest of all the capabilities with all the integrated technology and data that they can use on their client portfolios and engagement to our e meeting capabilities that actually help them actually put together their actual proposals for clients and the engagement of meeting with them regarding their needs. To even our AI capabilities helping them identify opportunities in their book. So we feel really good about the suite of capabilities that we have, but those capabilities are all integrated, which makes the advisor much easier with their dashboards to engage their clients to manage their books and to have that deeper engagement with them through the advice planning models.

Speaker 3

So we feel really good and we're continuing to invest heavily and that's complemented by all the mobile and the web capabilities that we have for them to do business. So we feel that we have a state of the art type of system. Our availability is very strong. And so we feel it is a differentiating point for us.

Speaker 2

Excellent. Thank you for taking the questions.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Jeff Schmitt from William Blair. Please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 14

Hi, good morning. The gross fee yield on client cash looks to be around 5% or maybe 5.25%, but What are new money yields at right now, I guess, on that $3,000,000,000 that will roll over, and what type of maturities are you investing in there?

Speaker 4

Well, we're still seeing in the maturity range of the 3.5% range and it's right now it's somewhere up a tad under 6%.

Speaker 14

Under 6%, okay. And then any sense on why that Comerica Bank Cash was kind of so high as a percentage of assets. And I guess, will your advisors be advising them to put More of that to work so we could see that come down?

Speaker 4

Yes, there is an opportunity. It is high as a percentage is That's the important I think that's one of the reasons and certainly with the engage in our arrangement, we've given the opportunity, but it's we do see it coming down.

Speaker 8

Yes. Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Your final question comes from the line of Brennan Hawken from UBS. Please go ahead with your question. Brennan, your line is open.

Speaker 5

Thank you and thanks for taking my follow-up. So the just wanted to double click on the NII expectation and confirm When you said that you expect an II to be up 2024 versus 2023 and then 2025 versus 2024, is that For all cash economics both on and off the balance sheet or is that, just a part of it?

Speaker 4

That was for all.

Speaker 5

All. Okay. Excellent. And can you speak to cash trends you've seen in January And what expectations for balances or betas underpin that growth because it's better than we were expecting.

Speaker 4

That was actually for the bank. I was giving you the bank on that one. I apologize.

Speaker 5

It's for the bank. Okay. Okay, got it.

Speaker 4

The second question was?

Speaker 5

It was about the no, never mind, because if it was about the bank, then that makes more sense because I could

Speaker 3

Yes. It's definitely it's the bank.

Speaker 5

Perfect. Thank you very much.

Operator

We have no further questions in our queue at this time. This does conclude today's conference call.

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Earnings Conference Call
Ameriprise Financial Q4 2023
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