Las Vegas Sands Q3 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
October 23, 2024

There are 15 speakers on the call.

Operator

day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands Third Quarter 20 24 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen only mode and the floor will be open for questions and comments after the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations. Sir, the floor is yours.

Speaker 1

Thanks so much. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO Pat of Dumont, our President and COO Doctor. Wilfred Wong, Executive Vice Chairman of Sands China and Grant Cheung, CEO and President of Sands China and EVP of Las Vegas Sands Asia Operations. Today's conference call will contain forward looking statements. We will be making those statements under the Safe Harbor provision of federal securities laws.

Speaker 1

The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward looking statements. In addition, we will discuss non GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call.

Speaker 1

Finally, for the Q and A session, we ask those with interest to please pose one question and one follow-up, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. The presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Dan. Thanks for joining us today. Macau market continues to grow. Total gaming revenue for the market grew 13% in the Q3 of 2024 when compared to the Q3 of 2023. Mass gaming revenue grew 14% in the quarter compared to 1 year ago.

Speaker 2

We believe the Chinese economy will grow and flourish in the future. It remains steadfast that the Macao market will grow along with it. I believe that Macao market gross gaming revenues will exceed $30,000,000 in 20.25 and growth from there. The scale and quality of the assets we have built are second to none. We believe our assets position us to grow faster than the market as growth expands beyond the premium customer segment.

Speaker 2

Our business strategy is predicated when investing in high quality assets that also has scale. We've designed our capital investment programs to ensure that we'll continue to be the market leader in the years ahead. We believe our approach will enable us to grow faster in the long term, grow our share of EBITDA in the Macao market and generate industry leading returns on invested capital. Turning to our results in Macao, we delivered solid EBITDA for the quarter despite material disruption at the Londoner, which peaked during the Q3. We opened the Londoner Grand Casino in the last week of September.

Speaker 2

We also opened 300 the first 300 Londoner Grand Suites. We will introduce more Londoner Suites throughout the next three quarters. The total 1300 London Suites and Rings in service by Lunar New Year of 2025 with a full complement of 1500 suites and 905 rooms in service by Golden Week 2020 line. SEL continues to lead the market in gaming and non gaming revenue and end market share of EBITDA. Our objective is to capture high value, high margin tourism over the long term.

Speaker 2

We have unique competitive advantage in terms of scale, quality and diversity of product offerings. Upon completion of the 2nd phase of the London in 2025, our product and management more pronounced than ever. We delivered another strong quarter in Singapore despite poor whole percentage. The results in rate base stands reflect the positive impact of our capital investment program and the growth of high value eports. The Golden Appeal Singapore as a destination is enhanced by the robust entertainment and lifestyle event calendar.

Speaker 2

As we complete the balance of our investment programs in the first half of twenty twenty five, there will be considerable runway for growth. Thank you for joining us. Let me turn it over to Patrick before you go to Q and A.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Rob. Macau EBITDA was $585,000,000 If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been higher by 2,000,000 dollars When adjusted for lower than expected hold in the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for Macau portfolio properties, excluding the Lunder would have been 35.1% or down 110 basis points compared to the Q3 of 2023. Our margins at the London were directly impacted by the disruption of the Londoner Grand renovation. We closed the casino and had around 2,500 keys out of inventory during the quarter. Margin at The Venetian was 38.6% and we expect margin improvement as The Venetian Cotai Arena comes back online in November and as visitations to the market and growth in unrated play both increase in the future.

Speaker 3

Margin at The Plaza for Seasons was 39.7% for the quarter. As Rob mentioned, we continue to progress our Londoner Grande renovation program. As these products come online, our competitive position will be stronger than ever. We expect meaningful EBITDA growth and margin expansion in the future. Turning to Singapore, MBS's EBITDA came in at $406,000,000 Assuming expected hold on our rolling play, our EBITDA would have been approximately $78,000,000 higher.

Speaker 3

The strong financial results reflect the impact of high quality tourism investment and market leading product and growth in high value tourism overall. Had we held as expected in our rolling place segment, MBS EBITDA margin would have been 47.5%, forty basis points higher than that of the Q3 of 2023. While we have made substantial progress on our $1,750,000,000 reimbursement program in MBS, we are still in the initial stages of realizing the benefits of these products, including from our tower gaming offering, which opened in September. The next phase of our capital investment program at Marina Bay Sands is scheduled to be completed during the Q2 of 2025. This will support further growth in 2025 and beyond.

Speaker 3

Also, please note on Page 44 of our earnings presentation, we have provided estimated costs for our Marina Bay Sands IR2 project. We couldn't be more enthusiastic about investing in the long term growth of high value leisure and business tourism in Singapore. The original concept was in effect an expansion of Marina Bay Sands, including an arena. Our new program creates a full scale integrated resort development with a full suite of amenities, including gaming capacity. We look forward to discussing that long term growth driver in the Q and A session.

Speaker 3

Turning our program to return capital to shareholders. We repurchased $450,000,000 of LBS stock during the quarter and our Board increased our repurchase authorization to $2,000,000,000 for future repurchases. We paid our recurring quarterly dividend of $0.20 per share in the quarter. In addition, our Board increased our annual dividend to $1 per share or $0.25 per quarter for the 2025 calendar year. We really look forward to continue to utilize the company's capital return program to increase returns to shareholders in the future.

Speaker 3

Thanks again for joining the call today. Now let's take some questions.

Operator

Thank you. The floor is now open for questions. Our first question comes from Joe Greff with JPMorgan. Please proceed.

Speaker 4

Good afternoon, guys. Congratulations on the results. One question, two parts related to Macau. In the 3Q, if we look at Contra Gaming revenues as a percentage of gross gaming revenues, that percentage went down almost 200 basis points. How much of that is you're managing the business differently, offering promotions differently than before?

Speaker 4

How much of that is just the market level of promotional activity is down? How much of that relates to mix between base mass and premium mass? And then I will follow-up.

Speaker 3

So Joe, it's a great question. And I think it's something we've been focused on for a long time. If you realize what happened in the quarter and the quarter before, and actually in the Q1, we've been impacted by disruption. And so we haven't really been able to manage our business with of our capabilities. And so what we've been doing now is as things have been coming online and we've been focusing on managing the business for the future, we've been looking to become more efficient.

Speaker 3

So we'll look to improve our margins from managing the business more closely. And what you're seeing is a direct result of that. I think one thing that did impact our margins this quarter and they would have looked better was the fact that we took so many rooms out of inventory. So the majority of our let's call it our margin change and decline was related to the fact that that's a very high margin business. We still didn't have it because the rooms weren't there.

Speaker 3

So I think what you're seeing at the beginning of the cost discipline and the pricing power because of the assets we've invested in slowly coming into place. So I think it's a good signal for the future in the way that we're going to manage the business with discipline. I would like to turn over to Grant for any additional comments.

Speaker 5

Yes. Thanks, Patrick. I think, Joe, it's more that last quarter, I think we mentioned that as we were preparing for the full closure of the old Pacifica Casino, we did deploy some tactical measures to manage the transition of customers to the other properties. And we did that very carefully during Q2. But for the Q3, we're really back to our core strategy, which is we compete on the basis of our products and the content that we bring despite the fact that obviously, Q3, our disruption actually increased, like Patrick referenced, with many more rooms out of inventory.

Speaker 5

But we stick to our total cost strategy, and we had a very strong quarter in how we managed customer reinvestments and still maintain market share relative to the Q2 despite rising disruption during the quarter and despite the fact that the base mass did not recover strongly as the summer months normally would indicate. So overall, it was a very strong margin performance. And obviously, we're very pleased that we managed to actually grow EBITDA sequentially despite the fact that the market GGR is down marginally against Q2.

Speaker 4

Thank you. And my follow-up question related to Macau, is obviously Golden Week was pretty strong October, for the most part, has been better than expected. Can you talk about what you think the drivers of that better than expected performance? I'm assuming it's probably better than expected for you guys as well. But how much of that is driven by the increases in equity prices locally?

Speaker 4

How much of that is seasonally strong events like Golden Week or New Year's typically see a step change that's a little bit stronger than maybe typical seasonality. Any kind of comments about how the typical Macau consumer is behaving since the quarter ended given all these generally more encouraging than not trends thus far in October? Thank you.

Speaker 3

Yes, Joe. I think we're not going to talk too much about the current quarter just because we have a policy not doing that. But I think directionally, we're very pleased about quality of people we have coming into our buildings, both in Macau and in Singapore. And I think that there's some real opportunity going forward as our new product comes online and people continue to spend in our buildings. And I think even with the disruption that you're seeing, you're finding that the consumer, high frequent, high value tourist is coming to our properties and recognizing that there's a great experience to be had there.

Speaker 3

Entertainment definitely plays a big part of that. Entertainment has been super important for us in both markets. And we continue to look to schedule entertainment and take advantage of entertainment as it occurs in the markets, even if it's not scheduled by us. Thank you.

Operator

Okay. The next question comes from Stephen Grambling with Morgan Stanley. Please proceed.

Speaker 6

Hey, thank you. Maybe turning to Marina Bay Sands, it's been hovering from an EBITDA standpoint around 4 $50,000,000 to $500,000,000 for the past couple of quarters. Can you just remind us of the cadence of disruption, some of the work going on to add suites and how that might subside and then build into next year?

Speaker 3

Sure. So just to give you a sense, during the quarter, we had about 1600 rooms available versus about 2,100 rooms available last year. So there's pretty substantial disruption going on just from a room count standpoint. We also have some casino floor work going on, which is disruptive. We did just open up some additional salon capacity there.

Speaker 3

So I think by the end of September, we should have about 27 newly renovated salons. So there's just there's a lot of stuff happening. I think we did Tower 1, Tower 2. We did what we call our Paisa area. We just introduced Sky Gaming, which is something that we've never had before, which was actually granted us as part of the development agreement for IR2.

Speaker 3

We've redone some dining and updated some retail. I think the biggest disruption is really Tower 3 that's ongoing. And hopefully by the end of the quarter, we'll add another 150 rooms. We'll see how that goes. But our biggest disruption right now is we have one of our casino floor areas is kind of mid flight.

Speaker 3

And so that's disrupting a little bit of the casino operation. But I would say that by middle of next year, hopefully we're going to stop talking about disruption. I think my dream not talking about disruption at this point.

Speaker 2

Yes, I think by the contrast point in May of 25, both London and Singapore pretty much are clear sailing. We're going to stop telling you, belt rooms are renovating all disruption, all difficulties. All comes to a head and no more excuses. We'll start seeing some solid results that will reflect the end of disruption in the beginning of making more money both in Singapore and Midtown. I think Singapore, it is it's gone through a lot.

Speaker 2

It's amazing how well it's done in spite of this, but London and having returned to that place, I can't wait to see it finished and play open, but the casino, of course, very, very exciting to look at.

Speaker 3

I would like to just point out, if you look at our earnings deck, you can see some of the results of innovation on Page 40, Page 41. You can kind of see the quality of work there. I'd like to give a big shout out to our design team. We've never really produced anything like this in our company's history. Our customers are taking notice.

Speaker 3

You can see that by the high quality customer we have coming in, the ADR that we have, the demand we have, the reviews we have for these rooms, the customer feedback. Very proud of what we've done in Marina Bay Sands. And if this is what we're able to do with this level of disruption, we're very excited about the future and the trajectory of the business. It's really amazing how strong the market is, how quality of a tourist is coming into Singapore and the fact that they are really interested in coming to Marina Bay Sands. And so I think the investment has been very positive and we're very happy about it.

Speaker 3

But unfortunately, we're still talking about disruption.

Speaker 6

And maybe as a follow-up just on Marina Bay Sands, realizing that you put out the number the updated numbers in terms of capital spend on IR2. I guess has the scope changed at all? Are there any updated thoughts on how you think about the returns on that project potentially versus other projects realizing that you'll probably get into this both later this year and next?

Speaker 2

Well, obviously, the biggest change that we made you aware of is that full casino amenities is built, no longer just a hotel supporting IRR1. And so that's obviously the biggest change is that. And I think you'll see it from design there, it is laser focus on the premium mass segment. And we believe there's a market that is growing about $6,500,000,000 of GGR probably in 2024. We believe we easily get to that $1,000,000,000 by quarter end.

Speaker 2

So this project reflects a lot of capital being directed at a very, very strong customer segment and a unique asset in some unique market that is stellar and it's unique. There's barriers to entry. There's a proven market. We have to guess who the customer is. We've been there for 14 years.

Speaker 2

So we feel very, very confident that these results are going to be terrific by we've told you before we expect IR-one to get to 2,500,000,000 dollars and we believe this new building can make an excess of $1,000,000,000 on top of that. So we're very confident that we've built the right thing in the market and its unique location destination in our business. Like, you have a tested market, the competition, the government, the infrastructure, barriers to entry. So the biggest single change obviously is a full blown casino as opposed to just a hotel.

Speaker 6

Makes sense. That's it for me. Look forward to seeing it in November.

Operator

Up next, we have Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed.

Speaker 7

Great. Thanks. Last week investors heard a bit about some pressure on luxury spend from the Chinese consumer. I wonder if you could talk about what you might be seeing there and how much do you think how much overlap is that with your premium mass consumer?

Speaker 2

Robin, let's just talk about that for a second. I think we're I think everyone should be impressed the resilience of Macau. We all know what's happening in China and we're very confident we'll return to a stronger place in the future. But the fact is Macao is performing showing growth and strong growth, I think, despite the economic environment there. Hopefully, we'll see more insight to the government's perspective on the economy in the near future.

Speaker 2

But unlike retail, which you're right, has struggled and we struggled as well as our top end retail, retail in general in Asia, There's no disputing until the LVNV numbers, Wishmont numbers, carry numbers, but it has not been a similar path for gaming in Macao. Macao is showing growth, double digit growth in the quarter. It's very exciting if this continues. I think it will. I think we'll exceed $30,000,000,000 plus next year.

Speaker 2

We're waiting today when the base mass returns. And so our current assets speak very well to the I mean the Londoner completion and the Venetian will be talking to each other. I think creates 2 most impressive assets in the market by far, making 1,000,000,000 of dollars in the future for us. But the real kicker comes when the basements does return because as you know, our assets are built for scale and built for a huge throughput. I think when that happens, the world turns very, very sunny for us.

Speaker 2

But in the interim, unlike retail, unlike other consumer spending businesses, Macao is proving very resilient and very powerful and we're grateful for it. And you saw the numbers coming out of the market numbers for October, looked awfully good for the industry where we saw the 1st weeks of October. So it's a very positive story relative to other businesses operating in the China.

Speaker 7

Great. That's really helpful. Thank you. And maybe just one quick follow-up is with some of the stimulus that was announced a few weeks ago, did that change your expectation for timing of recovery in the basemath? Or in other words, where should investors maybe look to see that show up if you in fact, if you think it will show up?

Speaker 7

Thanks.

Speaker 2

I think it's I was in Beijing 2 weeks ago. I think it first was very well received by everyone to see the government stepping in. I think it's wonderful and hopefully continues. But I think it's too early to predict where and when and how and how quickly. Again, I think it was great to see is that before the stimulus, Macau continues to show strong growth.

Speaker 2

And with our product offering, they will participate in that. When this single shows up, how it impacts the customer, we'd hope it would be sooner or later, we hope it would be on all segments, but I think time will tell. We have I don't think we have any insights. Grant or Wilfred, do you feel differently about that?

Speaker 5

Yes, Rob. I think the main point here, which you referenced just now is the Macau TGR remains very resilient before any of these stimulus measures have the chance to take impact. And I think that's very clear in the premium segments. And I think any economic tailwind we get as a market from these stimulus measures over time, obviously, will help the other segments, in particular, I think base mass and retail, which are 2 very important segments for us. So overall, we should acknowledge this Macau GGR, Macau Gaming is a very big outperformer in the whole consumer universe in the region right now.

Speaker 5

And that's powered by the premium segment where we are extremely well placed with the great products that we bring online. But of course, as the economy gets better, as some of these measures have positive impact over time, we obviously expect the other segments, which are also important to us, will follow through and give us a further boost to what these assets can actually deliver into 2025 and beyond.

Speaker 7

Okay, great. Thank you very much.

Speaker 8

I'll add a couple of points. The first thing is that the economic stimulus measures introduced by China are still unfolding, but the directional development is welcoming. We have confidence in the Chinese mainland's economic future and we'll continue to invest in Macau's future. The second point is that in 2024, Macau has been rated by the Chinese tourists as the most desired destination out of the Chinese market. So we see that Macau will stand to benefit once economic activities return to normal.

Speaker 7

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. Your line is live.

Speaker 9

Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to go back to IR2 to start. Thank you for the additional just numbers and disclosure there. Rob or whoever is right, obviously, the an increase in the casino scope and capacity and what's always been a supply constrained market is pretty interesting.

Speaker 9

Any details that you can provide there in terms of how many positions or what form some of the gaming expansion may take? Or imagine if it's too early, when might we look forward to hearing some additional details like that?

Speaker 3

We're going to publish the final details over the next coming months, but the idea is that it has casino gaming in the podium and Sky Gaming in the tower. Look, our goal with this tower is to make it something very different. This is going to be the most important gaming and hospitality building in the world. It's going to be the best hotel in the world. That's our goal, the best service, the best experience, the best F and B.

Speaker 3

Our goal is to create something that is really extraordinary and helps address the Singapore market, which we know quite well now and has been consuming some of our highest end products over the last 14 years. And so we're very aware of the market segments that we're addressing. And so we feel like this is a project that will be very accretive to our overall portfolio and create substantial value to us in the long term. What I can tell you is that it's a very robust program. So it will have great food and beverage, great other amenities.

Speaker 3

It will have a public access component. It will have a SkyPark, as you can see, its own version of the SkyPark. It will have MySpace. So it's going to be a very important globally significant asset for tourism, but it's going to be very specific to a very high end segment that we're dealing with today, and so hence the investment.

Speaker 9

Great. Thanks, Patrick. And then as my follow-up, if I could just turn to Macau, obviously, it was encouraging to see a bit of the market wide recovery in visitation. And I was just wondering if somebody could provide a little bit more color on how sort of visitation played out through the quarter. I think as we look back, 2nd quarter things were light and kind of little soft relative to kind of where we sit in 2019.

Speaker 9

Clearly, sequentially that improves. So just what was behavior like as things improved and what were you seeing from sort of the customer patterns on the visitation front? Thank you.

Speaker 2

Ran, do you want to take that?

Speaker 5

No, I'll take that. Yes, thanks for the question, Sean. Yes, as you rightly pointed out, visitation improved in terms of the recovery rate in Q3 as relative to Q2. So we're up to about 93% recovery versus 2019 Q3. And actually, August, the visitations exceeded 2019 levels.

Speaker 5

This quarter, it was primarily especially when you look at it on year on year basis, primarily driven by day trip visitor increase. And partly as a result of that, but partly, I think, as a general macro conditions didn't translate as much as you would have expected into the actual spending, especially in the base mass and retail. So what we saw in the 3rd quarter is actually continuation of the strength in the premium segments. We had better visitations, yes, but that didn't necessarily translate into the base mass business or help the retail business to any great extent. But it's encouraging to see the interest and desirability of consumers to come to Macau.

Speaker 5

Clearly, the Sheraton Quays being 2,400 fewer rooms available versus the prior summer didn't help us, but also frankly didn't help the market as a whole because that's a very large amount of inventory to be out of the market. So overnight visitors, that obviously hampered that segment. And overnight visitors typically spend multiple times what day trippers spend. But like I think Wilfred mentioned, Macau remains very desirable as a tourist destination for the region. And I think it's encouraging to see that come through just in the volume of visitations for the quarter.

Speaker 9

Thank you, everyone.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Sean. Thanks, Sean.

Operator

The next question comes from Carlos Santarelli with Deutsche. Please proceed.

Speaker 10

Hey, guys. Basically just one question, but maybe 2 parts to it. I don't know if Grant wants to take this, but just thinking about the cadence of rooms coming back online in Macau relative from where we are today, what the total room count will be acknowledging some regular rooms got compressed to suites come Golden Week of next year. And then kind of bucketing the rooms out of service and thinking about the impact they've had on a good slide that you guys have in your deck that kind of shows EBITDA share in 2019 of about 34% and that trending at roughly 30% kind of this year. How much of that 400 basis point delta do you think returns with the rooms coming back online?

Speaker 5

Sure. Should I take it?

Speaker 2

Yes, please.

Speaker 5

Yes. I think on the construction and the delivery of the new rooms, I mean, first of all, I think that the team has done a fantastic job in delivering the assets back the way they have by the end of September, where we opened a new casino, London Negres Casino as well as the get licensed for 300 the first 300 suites in London Negres. I think it's important to understand that in the Q4, we actually go down further in the total number of keys available during the quarter versus Q3 because we will be losing the rest of the Sheraton rooms and we will be staying in terms of licensed new suites at this 300 number for pretty much the whole quarter. So we'll actually reduce further in terms of key count by about 600 to 700 rooms in the Q4 relative to the Q3. So it's really only until January that we start to get a significant uplift in the critical mass of new suites, and we hope to be above 1,000 new suites by January or at least by Chinese New Year in January.

Speaker 5

And then it just ramps up from there until May or middle of the second quarter to the full inventory of 2,400 keys. And by then, we'll be back up to over 10,000 600 keys or just under 11,000 thereabouts by the Q2. Obviously, the room inventory being out by so much does impact our EBITDA and EBITDA share. And to your question on the prospect for the EBITDA share recovery, I think we're very confident that London Negrand and the whole London and Macau will deliver as we roll out the what is really, I think, top product at unprecedented scale. This London and Macau will be 4,400 suite hotel with about over 60% of the keys being suites.

Speaker 5

There's really no building like it in our industry in terms of that scale of quality and the offerings it has between the F and B, the arena inside the actual building. So we're very positive about how this will help to drive our EBITDA and ultimately our share of EBITDA as it ramps up and 2025 unfolds. And hopefully with some of these tailwinds that we just referenced earlier in the call. So yes, we are very excited about how this asset will deliver for us. And to Rob's point, between Indonesia and London Macau, I think you've got 2 amazing assets that's really going to deliver for us, but also deliver for our customers.

Speaker 10

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from Brett Muntour with Barclays. Please proceed.

Speaker 11

Hey, good evening, afternoon everybody. So first question in Singapore, the ADR reported RevPAR, but ADR specifically of $900 was staggering. I'm just curious, I know there was a lot of rooms out. It was sort of the trough, it seems like in terms of rooms out of service. When we look at that ADR, I'm trying to figure out, was it is there compression happening in that ADR because there are rooms out?

Speaker 11

Or is that number sort of illustrative of the quality and the sort of higher level product that you're coming out with for that asset?

Speaker 3

The answer is yes. So the first thing is you can see the pictures. Hopefully, you have a chance to actually see the rooms in person. The rooms are extraordinary. The design is fantastic.

Speaker 3

The service levels are incredible and we get that feedback from our customers. And so the ADR is a direct result of the market's view of the quality of the rooms after the renovation. And hopefully the entire building will be like that by the middle of next year. We're very proud about it. We've made a lot of strides.

Speaker 3

We've done a lot of work. The team there has been phenomenal. It's been our goal to make that the number one hotel in Asia and the world. And so we've been working towards that. Been doing a lot of benchmarking work and try to figure out how to get there, which is unusual for a property of this size.

Speaker 3

I think actually one of the things that will help grow that ADR further is when IR2 is open and we have an arena. That arena is going to be an incredibly powerful tourism driver for the overall complex, Having a 15,000 seat live performance venue with great technology, great viewing lines and a great experience is going to be very unique things. And so the ability to schedule that asset, to program it will drive a lot of visitation, not only to Singapore, but to Marina Bay Sands and will help us drive ADR further. So we feel very strongly that this ADR is a reflection of some compression. Very fair, we took rooms out of our keys out of the building.

Speaker 3

But more importantly, it's really something that points to the quality and the service levels of this newly renovated building. And we think it will grow over time as more amenities are put around

Speaker 2

it. I think to be fair to us, I don't think compression is that big a deal. In every market, there is extraordinary product people have said gamers and non gamers. This is that product. What's happening in renovated stands isn't just a compression.

Speaker 2

Sure, a few more or less rooms help you, but I believe demand is going to continue to soar once they experience the product. There's just nothing like it anywhere in terms of the room quality, the food and beverage product, having another hotel, the architecture, the public spaces, it's the place people want to stay. We're not getting 2,000, 3,000, 5,000 keys, you can sell them all easily at price of the hotel to grow. I think it's really a testament to the quality of product and the strong leisure demand and gamer demand in the market. And it's just going to get better and better because Singapore is that desirable.

Speaker 2

Infrastructure, government, accessibility, it's a very special place. So we built a building that's going to be for many years ahead most desirable place for everyone to stay at. So rates should continue to go up and up and gaming capacity will obviously grow more gaming demand, but it's a very different place than anything else in Singapore.

Speaker 11

Okay. Thank you for that. That's helpful. And then a question on Macau on the arena. We don't talk about the arena as much as we hear about the casino floor and the Londoner Suites.

Speaker 11

And I wanted to hear your level of excitement about that arena renovation. And specifically, when we think about 2025, is there a calendar associated with that where we would expect periods where you can look out now and say, okay, well, this quarter has a great slate of events and where it will be a needle mover or if there's a lag associated with sort of getting it up to the place that you'd want it to be?

Speaker 3

So the great thing about entertainment in Macau is that it's a very important part of our premium mass business. And we use it and we have used it successfully to drive premium mass visitation. And we have programs that help sort of leverage that asset. It's been very successful for us all over Asia in terms of scheduling live entertainment. But the venue there is really an incredible one.

Speaker 3

Great visionary move by Sheldon early on to build that arena. And the updating is going to make it more powerful. And so I think we're very excited about the types of programs that we can run using it. And there will be a schedule and it will be within our control and it will allow us to create more visitation and better spend at The Venetian and the rest of the property portfolio. But Grant or Wilfred, I don't know if you have any additional comments you'd like to add.

Speaker 5

Yes. I think we have referenced it in the deck, but we are progressing very well on the construction, the upgrade for the Venetian Arena. And it will relaunch actually towards the end of November into December. And we already have the first events lined up in terms of entertainment, but also sports. So that would get start getting some traction actually even at the end of this year.

Speaker 5

But we also should note, like Patrick referenced on the entertainment offer in general, with the London Arena, with the 6,000 seat London Arena, we have been programming very actively even during the downtime of the Venetian Arena or especially, I should say. And we did around 17 shows in the London Arena during Q3 and many of these shows actually did help us in driving the traffic and the spend. So we're very excited to have The Venetian Arena fully upgraded. I think it's going to be great for entertainment, sports, MICE, events. So it's really serving multiple segments and boosting the diversification drive in Macau.

Speaker 5

I think with a great setup there with the VIP boxes, with the backstage, the locker rooms and obviously the state of the art technology, I think is going to be basically like a new arena launching. So we are very excited by that. But another point to note is we will be programming both arenas and sometimes there will be shows concurrently in both venues on both sides of the Strip. So we're excited to see how that could help our business too. So yes, you will continuously see us showcasing new events in the calendar.

Speaker 5

There's already 3 events selling tickets now towards the end of the quarter. And we are looking forward to do some announcements on some more major events before the end of the year as well. Great. Thanks, everyone.

Operator

The next question comes from Dan Politzer with Wells Fargo. Please proceed.

Speaker 3

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. First question on Singapore on IR2. Can you talk us a bit about the regulatory landscape and outlook? Remind us maybe in terms of when the licensing goes through as it currently stands. And I assume you expect this to remain a duopoly market or maybe even better, but is there any expectation for how you think about gaming tax rates as you underwrite the returns on this building?

Speaker 3

Yes. So I think for us, the way we model this is that we have a we basically have a moratorium on the changes in gaming tax until the early 2030s. And I think for us, I think we view this investment as a very long term thing. And we'd like to believe that we'll continue to add value to Singapore and that we'll continue to be a good partner to the government and accomplish the goals in tourism that are necessary. So I think from that standpoint, we feel like it's a very stable operating environment.

Speaker 3

It's a wonderful place to deploy capital. It has been a wonderful place to deploy capital. We feel, as Rob referenced earlier, that there's a stability there and a very strong trajectory forward for us. So I think as we look at underwriting this, it's a very long dated investment, right? It doesn't open for 6 years, hopefully sooner, but we'll see.

Speaker 3

And that's obviously pending government approval, along with the final approvals that we need to begin by the summer of next year. But we think about this as a very long term thing. And we feel very excited about what we can build there. The gaming is a nice add, but there's also a lot of things that are going to drive tourism that would be very beneficial to us as well, like the arena, like the hospitality, like the food and beverage to enhance the overall appeal of the entire complex. So I think for us, look at this in a very long term way, we feel like there's very high barriers to entry there.

Speaker 3

I think right now, it seems like the feeling is that we're it's a duopoly market for the foreseeable future, and we certainly hope it stays that way. But from our standpoint, we look forward to the opportunity to invest in scale, and that's what we're doing. Got it. And then just turning to Macau, the promotions obviously came down quarter over quarter. I mean as we think about getting back to those mid to high 30% type margins in Macau, Is this really a function of recapturing shares, seeing more of the visitation come back or at least kind of gaming oriented visitation?

Speaker 3

Or is this really kind of you need the market to grow to get back to those levels? Well, I think the first thing is, for us to get to the high 30s, low 40s margin, we need revenue growth and we need all the segments to return. Right now, some of our segments have not returned, particularly the base mass segment, to where they were pre pandemic, and we are built for that. Our investment is 1 for scale. We have the ability to service the premium mass segment very well.

Speaker 3

The Londoner is an incredible product. The rest of our portfolio has incredible products as well. But if you look at the scale and the amenities that we have, everything from food and beverage to the bus terminals to the grand entryways to the theming, we're very much able to accommodate leisure tourists. And so for us, that missing visitation, if you will, from 2019 and also the lack of the base mass play is impactful to us. So the way we would get to the higher margins is through revenue growth.

Speaker 3

That being said, I have to hand it to the team there. They've been wonderful in terms of cost discipline and being split in the way that they spend money to ensure that we maintain our margins up against the current revenue that we have. But I think as we look forward, our investments will ultimately drive higher value visitation in the long run. And we firmly believe that and we see that historically and we've experienced it in other markets and in this market, particularly when we do high value renovations. So I think for us, as visitation continues to improve, hopefully, as the base mass market continues to improve and as we continue to get our premium mass segment assets back online, you'll start to see a normalization of revenue and then a normalization of margins.

Speaker 3

Grant, do you have any additional comments?

Speaker 5

I think you covered it, hopefully. Thanks.

Speaker 3

Got it. Thanks so much. Dan?

Speaker 6

Operator, do we have any additional questions?

Operator

Yes. The next question is from Chad Beynon with Macquarie. Please proceed.

Speaker 12

Thanks. Afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. You've been asked a lot about Macau, but I'm going to add one more to the stack here. So, obviously, you and the other concessionaires went through the whole retendering process 2 years ago, and we've gone through the checklist of items including your industry leading employment and other items.

Speaker 12

But with the new Chief Executive coming into his position in Macau, and I believe a month or so, is there anything that we should expect in terms of market focus, concessionary focus or is it kind of business as usual as they transition through that? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Let me say we're always very focused on making sure we're doing our job as a government and adhering to the things we were asked to do. I don't believe the new Chief Executive changed that, but we will stay focused and listen very carefully to make sure doing our part, we always do that historically in Macao. And we've always been, I think, a leading company as far as investing in Macao and hearing Macao's principle. But I don't expect to see radical change at all. I think it's going to be business as usual for the most part.

Speaker 2

Wilfred, do you have an opinion on that?

Speaker 8

Yes. I think the concession commitment maps out a long term development focus. So all 6 of us have thought very carefully and comprehensively what we want to do under the guidance of the Macau SAR government. And I think the change of at the top will not have material changes to the directional change because what has been emphasized so far is that Macau really aims to diversify. We should invest in non gaming.

Speaker 8

I think these directions will remain. We just feel that as Rob pointed out, that as long as we conduct our business as usual and listen very carefully to what the government has to say depending on what happens in the next few years, we should be able to continue to operate favorably in Macau.

Speaker 12

Okay. That's helpful. Thank you for that. And then separately, one of your global competitors was recently granted a license in the Middle East. They presented some pretty favorable investment returns to investors in the past couple of weeks.

Speaker 12

They also mentioned that they expect competition in that region from others. So is this a region that you continue to study or are there reasons why this would be a pencils down investment opportunity as you think about it? Thanks.

Speaker 3

I think we're always looking at new investment opportunities for Las Vegas Sands. I think it's a market that we'll continue to study and look at and we'll see how it goes.

Speaker 12

Okay. Thanks, Patrick.

Operator

The next question comes from Vitaliy Umansky with Seaport. Please proceed.

Speaker 10

Hey, guys. How's it going? Look, I think I have 2 questions. First one for Patrick. When we look at Sands China and kind of cash flows coming in, how are you guys thinking about distribution of that cash going forward?

Speaker 10

Obviously, there's future CapEx requirements under the re tendering process. There's other expenditures that need to take place, but there's also intercompany note that's still outstanding between LVS and Sands China. There's also, I think, investors looking at Sands China and thinking about can China get back to being a higher dividend paying stock the way it used to be in the past. So maybe for Sands China, how are you thinking about capital offloads? And then I think for LBS as a whole, with the announcement and kind of the CapEx layout now for Marina Bay Sands, how are you thinking about number 1 financing for MBS Phase 2?

Speaker 10

And also, what does that mean for return of capital to investors of LVS? And then maybe the second question is around basically

Speaker 1

Wait, that was one question?

Speaker 10

Sorry, sorry guys.

Speaker 3

Keep going. Keep going, Vital. You're good. Keep going.

Speaker 10

Yes. Just had questions around New York. What your current thinking and thought process is around the New York license process?

Speaker 3

So, really appreciate the questions. A couple of thoughts. So first off, in terms of SEL, I think SEL is performing incredibly well given the disruptions there. And I think we'd like to believe that EBITDA will grow meaningfully over time as well our cash flow. And so in years past, prior to the pandemic, SCL was very shareholder friendly in terms of dividends.

Speaker 3

And as you can see that LVS is actually buying SCL stock as we can in the market because we have a lot of conviction about the value of SCL equity as well as LVS equity as you can see by the buybacks at the LVS level as well. And I think as we think about SCL, we're very hopeful that it will be a dividend payer in the upcoming year. We think that that's a possibility and we'd like to believe that it's going to recur. But again, that's up to the Board there. And I think the in terms of the note, I'd like to believe that's also something that could be repaid to the parent level at some point and provide some additional capital allocation flexibility for the parent co.

Speaker 3

And we'll see how that goes. We'll be able to hopefully maybe buy some stock with it, if that's possible. So we'll see. But I think in the long term, we'd like to believe that SCL becomes a dividend payer again. We think that makes sense for the shareholders there.

Speaker 3

At the LBS level, we'd like to own more of it. You'll probably see us do a little bit more of that. But in the long run, we think there's going to be a very high quality return to capital program coming out of SCL, assuming the trajectory of the business, given the investment we've made and our belief long term in the market. I think at the LBS level, there's a couple of things that you've raised there. I think 1st and foremost, I think when we think about capital allocation, we think about growth.

Speaker 3

Our highest and best use of capital is new ground up development. So you see us doing that both in Macau as part of some of our concessional work as well as in Singapore along with this IR2 development that has just a panoply of great amenities, including which is going to be, we believe, the best hotel in the world and an unbelievable arena. So we think these are great investments that will create a lot of growth and growth in cash flow for our company. So that leads to your next question, which is how do we finance this? And our goal is actually to follow what we've always said, which is raise some cost efficient debt capital.

Speaker 3

It's one of the reasons why we like being an investment grade name. It makes our cost of financing efficient for new growth developments and we'll look to do that. And if you think about the proportion of debt to equity, I think it's pretty consistent what we've talked about. Let's call it in the 35% context of equity and the rest will be financed given the debt capacity that we have at the MBS balance sheet. And the great news is that we've run a little leverage of level full leverage level there with the anticipation of funding an IR2 development.

Speaker 3

And so now that's coming to be. So we're prepared for it and we look forward to the opportunity to work with our lenders to create that financing facility to allow for it to be built. So I think as we move forward, you'll see a delayed draw term loan at the MBS level to fund the construction with equity checks going in as well over time. Over the construction schedule, we actually have construction schedule that will be provided. Again, it's kind of illustrative.

Speaker 3

It's something that is a rough estimate today. It's designed to give people a sense of timing of cash flows. And that's actually on Page 46 of the deck, if you want to get a sense of kind of what we're thinking. It may not exactly be this, but this is the context from what we can understand and see today. And so our goal is to, in effect, create the flexibility to continue to invest in high growth opportunities, continue to pay a dividend and continue to repurchase shares at both levels.

Speaker 3

And hopefully, we'll be able to do that, but that's our plan. And then I'll turn it over to Rob for New York.

Speaker 2

What was the I'm sorry, is it Paul? And the question was on New York, was the issue itself?

Speaker 10

Yes, Rob. Just kind of what the

Speaker 2

Yes, New York just refresh my memory.

Speaker 1

About the capital allocation.

Speaker 2

Was the question about New York in what regard? I didn't hear the whole question.

Speaker 10

Rob, just about what the current is from your end in terms of what the New York process is and where do you expect it to go from here? Because there's been delays.

Speaker 2

And Yes. The thinking right now is that the license will be submitted sometime in I mean applications for licensure sometime in spring of 20 5 was a decision. This morning I was told probably the Q1 of 20 6, but they have to make a decision. We remain interested in the process. One finding, I've always been the base advocate for New York and other jurisdictions.

Speaker 2

The only concern I have these days is the ongoing strength of online gambling, which you can't ignore what's happening in New Jersey and Pennsylvania and in Michigan and I think it's for the markets. But we build capital intense buildings that require long term perspective. And I must admit that there's got to be some kind of way of thinking about how the online impact would be not where you are in the U. S. It's just a concern and it's something I've been looking at closely.

Speaker 2

I'd love to be in New York with the right capital structure and the right licensure process, but that's the newest wrinkle in the as far as the process, New York itself hasn't really changed. There's still talk in late 'twenty five, early 'twenty six for decision. I just my personal thinking has been influenced somewhat by the last 6 months as I see the growth of online gambling. So there's something to think about as we move forward in any market where online gambling is possible. I think sometime in next year or 2, you're going to see online exceed land based revenues in New Jersey, which is pretty exceptional.

Speaker 10

Rob, sorry, does that mean if New York, for instance, were to legalize online gaming that you would have to reevaluate what your proposal would be for New York?

Speaker 2

It goes beyond that. My concern is we don't know what our buildings take a long time. As you see Singapore, they take years to finish. I need some understanding of how the market, any market thinks that online gambling anywhere you go, if you're going to spend if Singapore legalize online gambling, you make a stop and think about IR too. If any market does legalize it to think what does it mean to me in my capital investment.

Speaker 2

And I think that as New York or Michigan or Florida, any place that's online, it makes you stop and scratch your head. There's going to be some resolution of the issue. I'm not saying they'll tell you definitively, but you can't ignore that possibility when you see the impact of online in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan and probably other 4 states are coming online. You can't ignore the impact on land based revenue.

Speaker 10

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks for the update.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Operator

Okay. The next question comes from George Choi with Citigroup. George, your line is live.

Speaker 13

Thanks very much. So we were at the Londoner Grande a few weeks ago and noticed that the mini bets at the backcourt table there were noticeably lower versus the Londoner Casino. I just wondered if that is temporary or does that signal any difference in marketing market positioning between the two phases?

Speaker 2

I think it signals even more rooms above that. I was there, I guess, 10 days ago or so. I think what you're going to see, George, over time is the Londoner like the nation will become the most dominant player and players in the market. No questions asked about it, no change in marketing. Just need to complete the product, get the rooms done on top.

Speaker 2

There's a lot of people in the building, but you need to get the right premium mass customer to achieve the minimum best you want to achieve. I stand by we've done this now for we started London, I think 5, 6, 7 years ago, again with Sheldon, the London process. It finally completes in the spring of 'twenty 5. I remain completely steadfast to my belief that it's going to dominate that in London and the Venetian will dominate the market. No concern whatsoever.

Speaker 2

And the minimum that's when you count them, you'd be very happy with them as getting more rooms above the building, above the casino. In any building in the world that is gambling, there's always a complete, I mean, having the rooms connected to the casino, having easy access is always an essential element of success. So London, while it's open, it's not going to achieve the same goals as Neesh, the Londoner 1, it's not the rooms open.

Speaker 13

That's very good color. And as a follow-up, when the London is fully open next year, how should we think about the EBITDA trajectory going forward at the laboring at the neighboring properties, the Parisian Macau?

Speaker 2

There was a question how it affects other businesses?

Speaker 10

Yes, that's right.

Speaker 2

Yes. From my perspective and the team, Graham may have a different take on it. I've always said that I think London and Niche will be the 1 or 2 players or 2 and 1 players, each making $1,000,000,000 My goal is $1,000,000,000 plus for each of those buildings and the rest of the portfolio will be another $1,000,000,000 plus. That's my goal for our company long term over the next few years. And but again, as Patrick referenced and Brandon, everybody in this call, we need to see a return to more base mass gaming.

Speaker 2

You saw the differential between visitation and gaming. In the past, visitation was a complete predictor of gaming revenue. That broke rank three. So we're seeing lots of visitation, but not the gaming to accompany it. And that's a negative.

Speaker 2

I mean, there's no hiding from the fact that it disappoints you have a bigger base mass tail. I have full faith that China will figure out its economy. It's too important to the world not to. And as China recovers and base mass recovers, that our company, SCL LBS will be the biggest recipient of revenue, margin and growth in Macao. It's going to happen for sure.

Speaker 2

Sheldon used to say, day follows night, night follows day. China will get back to a better place. It will recover. The confidence will recover. Macao will continue to grow in the 30s and beyond.

Speaker 2

And someday, we'll get back to $3 plus 1,000,000,000 EBITDA. And those two buildings will stand very, very tall. Does it negatively impact the 4 Seasons? Not really. It's stellar small product.

Speaker 2

The Parisian as well, I think, has a lot of confidence that in the aggregate that portfolio is unique and they all speak to each other. We have the ability to market within the portfolio. So again, as long as we get stronger, it doesn't mean others get weaker. It just means there's more strength in the market. But I would tell you that the real upside of this company will be the day 1.

Speaker 2

Yes, we'll do very well premium mass, but when that base mass recovers, that tail will drive us to a whole new level of opportunity. And that day is coming.

Speaker 13

That's very clear. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2

Thank you. Enjoy your reports, George.

Operator

The next question comes from David Katz with Jefferies. Please proceed.

Speaker 14

Hi, evening. Thanks for taking my question. I wanted to go back to Golden Week for a moment, if I may. I would say that we, The Street collectively, had a set of expectations going into Golden Week. And the result turned out to be quite

Speaker 2

a bit stronger than that.

Speaker 14

And for better or worse to where we get our information, how those expectations are set. I'm curious where yours were and whether Golden Week turned out to be materially better than what you were looking for and exactly what the drivers of that were, please?

Speaker 3

So as typical, we'll talk about this in 92 days. We don't talk about current quarter on the earnings call, but appreciate the question.

Speaker 14

Okay. Thanks very much.

Operator

Thank you. This does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.

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Earnings Conference Call
Las Vegas Sands Q3 2024
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