D.R. Horton Q4 2021 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
November 8, 2021

Key Takeaways

  • D.R. Horton reported record Q4 revenue of $8.1 billion (up 27%) and pretax income of $1.7 billion (up 63%), driving EPS of $3.70; full-year pretax income rose 80% to $5.4 billion with EPS of $11.41 and 81,965 home closings (up 25%).
  • Homebuilding margins improved, with Q4 pretax profit margin up 84 bps to 21.3% and SG&A at a record low 6.9% of revenue, while returns on inventory and equity reached 37.9% and 31.6% respectively for the year.
  • Ongoing supply chain and labor challenges led D.R. Horton to restrict sales, causing Q4 net sales orders to fall 33% year-over-year to 15,949 homes, though the average order price rose 23% to $378,300.
  • For Q1, the company expects 17,500–18,500 home closings on $6.5–6.8 billion in revenue and a home sales gross margin of 26.8–27%, while guiding FY22 closings of 90,000–92,000 homes on $32.5–33.5 billion.
  • D.R. Horton ended FY21 with $5 billion in homebuilding liquidity, 17.8% leverage, raised its dividend by 13%, and repurchased $874 million of shares, underscoring a disciplined capital return strategy.
AI Generated. May Contain Errors.
Earnings Conference Call
D.R. Horton Q4 2021
00:00 / 00:00

There are 15 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good morning, and welcome to the Q4 2021 Earnings Conference Call for D. R. Horton, America's Builder, the largest builder in the United States. I will now turn the call over to Jessica Hansen, Vice President of Investor Relations for D. R.

Operator

Horton.

Speaker 1

Thank you, Tom, and good morning. Welcome to our call to discuss our Q4 fiscal 2021 financial results. Before we get started, today's call includes comments that constitute forward looking statements as defined by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Although D. R.

Speaker 1

Horton believes any such statements are based on reasonable assumptions, there is no assurance that actual outcomes will not be materially different. All forward looking statements are based upon information available to D. R. Horton on the date of this conference call and D. R.

Speaker 1

Horton does not undertake any obligation to publicly update or revise any forward looking statements. Additional information about factors that could lead to material changes in performance is contained in D. R. Horton's Annual Report on Form 10 ks and subsequent reports on Form 10 Q, all of which are or will be filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. This morning's earnings release can be found on our website at investors.

Speaker 1

Dlhorton.com and we plan to file our 10 ks towards the end of next week. As referenced in our press release, we realigned the aggregation of our Humboldt and operating segments into 6 new reportable segments this quarter to better allocate our homebuilding operating segments across our geographic reporting regions. As a result, in addition to our standard updated investor and supplementary data presentation, we will also be posting to our Investor Relations site 3 years of quarterly sales, closings, Backlog, homes and lot data that conforms to our new geographic region presentation. All of this can be found at investors. Drhorton.com on the Presentations section under News and Events for your reference.

Speaker 1

Now, I will turn the call over to David Auld, our President and CEO.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Jessica, and good morning. I am pleased to also be joined on this call by Mike Murray, our Executive Vice President and Co Chief Operating Sir, and Bill Wheat, our Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Today, we also have Paul Romanowski with us, He was recently promoted to Executive Vice President and Co Chief Operating Officer. Paul has been with D. R.

Speaker 2

Horton since 1999, Serving as our regional Florida as our Florida South Division President for 15 years and most recently as our Florida Region President for 7 years. I'd like to take a brief moment to have Paul introduce himself before we get started. Paul?

Speaker 3

Thank you, David, and hello, everyone. I'm excited for the opportunity to serve in my new role on the D. R. Horton management team and I look forward to getting to know our investors and analysts in the coming year.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Paul. Given that Paul is new to his role, he will not be an active participant today, but we are glad to have him with us And believe his extensive homebuilding experience will strengthen our executive team. The D. R. Horton team finished the year with a Strong 4th quarter, which included a 63% increase in consolidated pretax income to $1,700,000,000 And a 27% increase in revenue to $8,100,000,000 Our pre tax profit margin for the quarter improved 4 84 basis points to 21.3 percent and our earnings per diluted share increased 65% to $3.70 For the year, consolidated pre tax income increased 80 percent to $5,400,000,000 on a $27,800,000,000 of revenue.

Speaker 2

Our pre tax profit margin for the year improved 4 60 basis points to 19.3% and our earnings per diluted share increased 78% to $11.41 We closed a record 81,965 homes this year, An increase of over 16,500 homes or 25% from last year. While also achieving a historical low homebuilding Our homebuilding return on inventory was 37.9% and our return on equity was 31.6%. These results reflect our experienced teams and their production capabilities, our ability to leverage D. R. Horton scale across our broad geographic footprint And our product positioning to offer homes at affordable price points across multiple brands.

Speaker 2

Our homebuilding cash flow from operations for 2021 was $1,200,000,000 Over the past 5 years, we have generated $5,900,000,000 of cash flow from homebuilding operations, While growing our consolidated revenues by 128% and our earnings per share by 3 83%. During this time, we also more than doubled our book value per share, reduced our homebuilding leverage 2 20 percent And increased our homebuilding liquidity by $2,800,000,000 all while significantly increasing our returns on inventory and equity. I think market conditions remain very robust and we are focused on maximizing returns and increasing our market share further. However, there are still significant challenges in the supply chain, including shortages in certain building materials And tightness in the labor market. As a result, we continued restricting our home sales base during the Q4 by We expect to work through the supply chain challenges and ultimately increase our production capacity.

Speaker 2

After starting construction on 22,400 homes this quarter, our homes in inventory increased 26% from a year ago to 47,800 homes at September 30, 2021. In October, we started more than 8,000 homes, Further positioning us to achieve double digit growth again in 2022. We believe our strong balance sheet, Liquidity and low leverage position us very well to operate effectively through changing economic conditions. We plan to maintain our flexible, operational And financial position by generating strong cash flows from our homebuilding operations and managing our product offerings, incentives, Home pricing, sales pace and inventory levels to optimize our returns. Mike?

Speaker 3

Diluted earnings For the Q4 of fiscal 2021 increased 65% to $3.70 per share And for the year, diluted earnings per share increased 78 percent to $11.41 Net income for the quarter increased 62% to $1,300,000,000 And for the year, net income increased 76% to $4,200,000,000 Our 4th quarter home sales revenues increased 24 percent to $7,600,000,000 on 21,937 Homes Closed, Up from $6,100,000,000 on 20,248 Homes Closed in the prior year. Our average closing price for the quarter was 340 $1,100 up 14% from last year, and the average size of our homes closed was down 1%. Bill?

Speaker 4

Net sales orders in the 4th quarter decreased 33 percent to 15,949 Homes and the value of those orders was $6,000,000,000 down 17% from $7,300,000,000 in the prior year. A year ago, our 4th quarter net sales orders were up 81% Due to the surge in housing demand during the 1st year of the pandemic, when we had significantly more completed homes available to sell and prior to the supply chain challenges that arose in 2021. Our average number of active selling communities decreased 5% from the prior year and was down 3% sequentially. Our average sales price on net sales orders in the 4th quarter was $378,300 up 23% from the prior year. The cancellation rate for the Q4 was 19%, flat with the prior year quarter.

Speaker 4

As David described, new home demand remains very strong And our local teams are continuing to restrict our sales order pace where necessary on a community by community basis based on the number of homes in inventory, construction times, production capacity and lot position. They also continue to adjust sales prices to market while staying focused on providing value to our buyers. We are still restricting the pace of our sales orders during our 1st fiscal quarter, but to a lesser extent than during our 4th quarter. As a result, we expect our Q1 net sales orders to be approximately equal to or slightly higher than our 20,418 Sales orders in the Q1 last year. Our October net sales order volume was in line with our plans and we remain confident that we are well positioned to deliver double digit volume growth in fiscal 2022 with 26,200 homes in backlog, 47,000 homes in inventory, a robust lot supply and strong trade and supplier relationships.

Speaker 4

Jessica?

Speaker 1

Our gross profit margin on home sales revenue in the 4th quarter was 26.9%, up 100 basis points sequentially from the June quarter. The increase in our gross margin from June to September reflects the broad strength of the housing market and benefited from the better alignment of our sales order pace our construction schedules. The strong demand for a limited supply of homes has allowed us to continue to raise prices or lower the level of sales incentives in most community. On a per square foot basis, our revenues were up 7% sequentially, while our stick and brick cost per square foot increased 7.5% and our lot costs increased 2%. We expect both our construction and lot costs will continue to increase.

Speaker 1

However, with the strength of today's market conditions, we expect to offset any cost pressures with price increases. We currently expect our home sales gross margin in the Q1 to be similar to the Q4. We remain focused on managing the pricing, incentives And sales pace in each of our communities to optimize the return on our inventory investments and adjust to local market conditions and new home demand. Bill?

Speaker 4

In the Q4, homebuilding SG and A expense as a percentage of revenues was 6.9%, down 70 basis points from 7.6% in the prior year quarter. For the year, homebuilding SG and A expense was 7.3%, down 80 basis points from 8.1% in 2020. Our homebuilding SG and A expense as a percentage of revenues is at its lowest point for a quarter and for a year in our history, And we are focused on continuing to control our SG and A while ensuring that our infrastructure adequately supports our business. David?

Speaker 2

We have increased our housing inventory in response to the strength of demand and are focused on expanding our production capabilities further. We started 22,400 homes during the 4th quarter and 91,500 homes during fiscal 2021, Which is an increase of 21% compared to fiscal 2020. We ended the year with 47,800 homes in inventory, up 26% from a year ago. 21,700 of our total homes at September 30 were unsold, Of which 900 were completed. Although we have not seen significant improvement in the supply chain yet, we expect the current constraints to ultimately moderate At some point in 2022.

Speaker 2

Mike?

Speaker 3

At September 30, our homebuilding lot position consisted of approximately 530,000 lots, of which 24% were owned and 76% were controlled through purchase contracts. 24% of our total owned lots are finished And at least 47% of our controlled lots are or will be finished when we purchase them. Our growing and capital efficient lot portfolio is key to our strong competitive position and will support our efforts to increase our production volume to meet homebuyer demand. Our 4th quarter homebuilding investments in lots, land and development totaled $1,800,000,000 of which $1,000,000,000 was for finished lots, $330,000,000 was for land and $440,000,000 was for land development. Bill?

Speaker 4

Forestar, Our majority owned subsidiary is a publicly traded, well capitalized residential lot manufacturer, operating in 56 markets across 23 states. Forestar continues to execute extremely well on its high growth plan as they increase their lots sold by 53% to 15,915 lots during fiscal 2021 compared to the prior year. Forestar's pretax profit margin for the year improved 400 basis points 12.4 percent excluding an $18,100,000 loss on extinguishment of debt. At September 30, Forestar's owned and controlled lot position increased 60% from a year ago to 97,000 lots. 61 percent of Forestar's owned lots are under contract with D.

Speaker 4

R. Horton or subject to a right of first offer under our master Supply agreement. Dollars 370,000,000 of D. R. Horton's land and lot purchases in the 4th quarter were from Forestar.

Speaker 4

Forestar separately capitalized from D. R. Horton and had approximately $500,000,000 of liquidity at year end with a net debt to capital ratio With its current capitalization, strong lot supply and relationship with D. R. Horton, Forestar plans to continue profitably growing their business.

Speaker 4

Jessica?

Speaker 1

Financial Services pretax income in the Q4 was $103,000,000 on $223,000,000 of revenues with a pre tax profit margin of 46.1%. For the year, financial services pre tax income was $365,000,000 on $824,000,000 of revenues, representing a 44.3 percent pre tax profit margin. For the quarter, 98% of our mortgage company's loan originations related to homes closed by our homebuilding operations and our mortgage company handled the financing for 66% of our homebuyers. FHA and VA loans accounted for 45% of the mortgage company's volume. Borrowers originating loans with DHI Mortgage this Quarter had an average FICO score of 722 and an average loan to value ratio of 89%.

Speaker 1

First time homebuyers represented 59% The closing handled by our mortgage company this quarter. Mike?

Speaker 3

Our multifamily and single family rental operations generated combined pretax income That's $74,300,000 in the 4th quarter $86,500,000 in fiscal 2020 Our total rental property inventory at September 30 was $841,000,000 compared to $316,000,000 a year ago. We sold 3 multifamily properties totaling 9 60 units during fiscal 2021 for $191,900,000 All of which were sold in the Q4 compared to 2 properties totaling 540 units sold in fiscal 2020. We sold 3 single family rental communities totaling 260 homes during fiscal 2021 for $75,900,000 including one sale of 64 homes during the Q4 for $21,000,000 in revenue. In fiscal 2022, We expect our rental operations to generate more than $700,000,000 in revenues from rental property sales. We also expect to grow the total inventory investment in our rental platforms by more than $1,000,000,000 in fiscal 2022 Based on our current rental projects and development and our significant pipeline of future single and multifamily rental projects, we are positioning our rental operations A significant contributor to our revenues, profits and returns in future years.

Speaker 3

Bill?

Speaker 4

Our balanced capital approach focuses on being disciplined, During fiscal 2021, our cash provided by homebuilding operations was $1,200,000,000 And our cumulative cash generated from homebuilding operations for the past 5 years was $5,900,000,000 At September 30, We had $5,000,000,000 of homebuilding liquidity consisting of $3,000,000,000 of unrestricted homebuilding cash and $2,000,000,000 of available capacity on our homebuilding revolving credit facility. This level of liquidity provides significant flexibility to adjust to changing market conditions. Our homebuilding leverage was 17.8% at fiscal year end with $3,100,000,000 of homebuilding public notes outstanding, of which $350,000,000 matures in the next 12 months. At September 30, our stockholders' equity was $14,900,000,000 And book value per share was $41.81 up 29% from a year ago. For the year, our return on equity was 31.6 An improvement of 9.50 basis points from 22.1 percent a year ago.

Speaker 4

During the quarter, we paid cash dividends of $71,600,000 for a total of $289,300,000 of dividends paid during the year. During the quarter, we repurchased 2,300,000 shares of common stock for $212,600,000 and our stock repurchases during fiscal year 2021 totaled 10,400,000 shares for $874,000,000 Our outstanding share count is down 2% from a year ago And our remaining share repurchase authorization at September 30 was $546,200,000 We remain committed to returning capital to our shareholders through both dividends and share repurchases on a consistent basis and to reducing our outstanding share count each fiscal year. Based on our financial position and outlook for fiscal 2022, our Board of Directors increased our quarterly cash dividend by 13% to $0.225 per Jessica?

Speaker 1

As we look forward to the Q1 of fiscal 2022, we are expecting market conditions to remain similar With strong demand from homebuyers, but continuing supply chain challenges that will delay home construction, completions and closings. We expect to generate consolidated revenues in our December quarter of $6,500,000,000 to $6,800,000,000 And our homes closed by our homebuilding operations to be in a range between 17,518,500 homes. We expect our home sales gross margin in the Q1 to be 26.8% to 27% and homebuilding SG and A as a percentage of revenues in We anticipate a financial services pre tax profit margin in the range of 30% to 35% And we expect our income tax rate to be approximately 24% in the Q1. Looking further out, We currently expect to generate consolidated revenues for the full fiscal year of 2022 of $32,500,000,000 to $33,500,000,000 and to close between 9,092,000 homes. We forecast an income tax rate for fiscal 2022 of approximately 24%, subject to changes and potential future legislation that could increase the federal corporate tax rate.

Speaker 1

We also expect that our share repurchases will reduce our out Senior share count by approximately 2% at the end of fiscal 2022 compared to the end of fiscal 2021. We expect to generate positive cash flow from our homebuilding operations in fiscal 2022 after our investments in homebuilding inventories to support double digit growth. We will then balance our cash flow utilization priorities among increasing the investment in our rental operations, Maintaining conservative homebuilding leverage and strong liquidity, paying an increased dividend and consistently repurchasing shares.

Speaker 2

David? In closing, our results reflect our experienced teams and production capabilities, industry leading market share, broad geographic footprint And diverse product offerings across multiple brands. Our strong balance sheet, liquidity and low leverage provide us with significant financial flexibility To capitalize on today's robust market and to effectively operate in changing economic conditions. We plan to maintain our disciplined approach to investing capital to enhance the long term value of the company, which includes returning capital to Thank you to the entire D. R.

Speaker 2

Horton team for your focus and hard work. Your efforts during 2021 were remarkable. We closed the most homes in a year in our company's history, Achieving 10% market share with record profits and returns, and we are incredibly well positioned to continue growing and improving our operations in 2022. This concludes our prepared remarks. We will now hold for questions.

Operator

In the interest of time, we remind participants to please limit themselves to one question and one follow-up each. We also ask that while posing your question, please pick up your handset if listening on speakerphone to provide optimum sound quality. Please hold while we poll for questions. And the first question is coming from Carl Reichardt from BTIG. Carl, your line is live.

Operator

Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Thanks. Good morning, everybody. Welcome, Paul. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to ask about your sort of internal plans for 'twenty two for orders and Perhaps talk a little bit about what you see your community count doing relative to your absorptions and which you lean on more for growth in the next fiscal year?

Speaker 2

Well, as far as sales absorptions and community count, I think we're still believing that community count It's flat to up single digit, low single digit. And as far as our sales numbers, If we're projecting to deliver 90,000 to 92,000 homes, then we've got to have sales base that matches up. And again, Carl, the key to us is making sure that when we sell a home, we know when it's going to see how it deliver. And as what I believe is as the market continues into 2022 that You're going to see stabilization on the material side first. And then the labor side, we've been working on expanding our labor base For the last 10 years and the consistent level of starts has allowed us To drive an efficiency there that has lost lower more houses and we just plan on continuing to

Speaker 1

do that. And really rather than a focus on community count, it adds and flows quarter to quarter. If we start a house, we're going to ultimately sell and Close it. So we really focus on our homes and inventory and our lot position.

Speaker 2

Sure. Thanks, Jessica. Thanks, Dave. Both of which are in very, very good shape right now. Yes.

Speaker 5

Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. And then, David, I wanted to go back to something that D. R.

Speaker 5

Horton has talked about in the past that we don't hear too much from others is this idea of getting your cash out of land investments within 24 months of when you put it in. And I'm curious really on two fronts. 1, the significant shift to options has probably allowed that to improve. But On the other hand, the delays in entitlement and approval processes and finding dirt has probably hurt that. So can you talk about that goal Of getting your cash out of your land investments within 24 months and how you see that changing over time?

Speaker 5

And thanks a lot.

Speaker 2

Well, I would say It's more of a requirement than a goal, Carl. That's something that we put in place coming out of the downturn that we have not wavered off of. And that is probably the toughest underwriting hurdle that our divisions have to face, But it's a non negotiable program because we saw what going long, long owning Long positions in land does your balance sheet and your risk level and What are unforeseen events that might happen on the future. So the 24 month cash back is still a part of every deal we underwrite And he's been a primary factor, I think, in driving our option lot position because it's we have to find partners. We have To control the lots we want to control.

Speaker 2

So we've got to be good partners with these guys. And that's been a focus through this entire cycle. And I think a major factor in that is just Unrelending, underwriting requirement that you got to get your cash off the table in 24 months.

Speaker 4

And Carol, to your point about Extending delays and things like that, that applies when we do own our land and we're self developing. It doesn't necessarily affect our cash When we're working with a 3rd party and buying lots because we're not buying a lots until we're ready to start homes and those approvals are in place. I would say more recently, one thing that is impacting our turns and our ability to actually return our cash in 24 months is the extension of our construction times with the supply delays. We have seen further elongation of our construction times. I believe on a year over year basis, our closings this quarter Where the construction times were longer by about 7 weeks, which is a bit longer than we would have reported last quarter.

Speaker 4

And so that is a factor That is causing a bit of friction in our inventory turns right now. But hopefully as we achieve some stabilization on the material side over the coming year, we'll see that

Operator

And your next question is coming from Stephen Kim from Evercore ISI. Stephen, your line is live. Please go

Speaker 3

ahead. Okay.

Speaker 6

Thanks very much. Thanks guys for all the info. I guess my first question relates to Your company's comments about affordability. I guess, first, am I right to think that you're driving affordability primarily through Construction and design efficiencies, or should we think that this effort is going to imply a lower gross margin, all things held constant? And then related to your margin, I imagine you got peak lumber coming through your December quarter.

Speaker 6

So if lumber stays where it is right now, I mean, would it be reasonable to think that the December quarter margins is maybe likely to be the low point for the fiscal 2022 year?

Speaker 4

Well, in terms of lumber costs, they are still rising. They rose further in our fiscal Q4. We've seen them rise further into October. So we do believe that we are seeing the peak of lumber costs. However, other costs are increasing as well.

Speaker 4

We're seeing costs really increasing across the board. So even when we see perhaps some relief from lumber As we move further into fiscal 'twenty two, I think that will be offset by other cost increases. As far as the net effect on gross margin, Ultimately, that will depend on the strength of the demand environment as we move into the spring season and our ability to continue to offset costs with prices. Right now our short term view is that we should be able to offset cost with price and maintain our margins at or around the level that we Just reported in the Q4, but truly as we move through fiscal 'twenty two, it will depend on the strength of the demand environment.

Speaker 1

And our ability to continue to achieve affordability is really across a multitude of things. It's not any one thing we would point to. Clearly, our size and our scale and the construction efficiencies that we've been very focused on, particularly in our Express Homes brand, limiting floor plans, limiting options, Being able to control a trade at our job site all day long, house to house to house, repetitively doing the same thing over and over and over again, has been a benefit in that regard. And then to a lesser extent, we have also continued to see our average square footage come down and that's the way we can Focus on affordability as well is building more of our smaller floor plans.

Speaker 2

Steve, we're constantly trying To drive a more affordable total occupancy cost for our buyers. And that effort is never going to stop. Right.

Speaker 6

And I think the gist of my question was that none of that implies necessarily a lower gross margin all else held constant,

Speaker 2

No, I don't. We're not seeing that. Right.

Speaker 6

That's what I wanted to clarify. Okay. And then secondly regarding sales I think, obviously, really encouraging we do an analysis of your starts and your inventory. And it's certainly we agree, we saw a really big Positive inflection in your production metrics that we can see externally. And so I wanted to ask you, about your comment about sales restrictions because A layperson or somebody listening from the outside could hear you say, hey, we're reducing our sales restrictions and think to themselves, well, yes, that's because demand has And so therefore, there aren't as many people on waiting lists and things like that.

Speaker 6

And so I was wondering if you could clarify with maybe a little more detail, Are you these sales restrictions which are starting to get alleviated are being relaxed. Is that a sign of slowing demand or increasing supply? And assuming it's not a weakening of demand, I just wanted to go back to what you said in March. I think Jessica that you did a stress test to your backlog. I thought that gave a lot of comfort about affordability.

Speaker 6

I was wondering if you did that recently.

Speaker 3

So the last question, yes, we did update The stress testing, we look at that every quarter in our backlog and found no real change. In fact, it may be a slight improvement from the March quarter to what we saw in September quarter backlog. And the sales restrictions is certainly a function of supply. We're seeing that we have been able to pull more homes through the production process to points where we are able to give that buyer a more confident delivery date and give them a better experience in the process. I don't think it anyway.

Speaker 3

Its sales have been reflective of the demand environment. We have consciously chosen not to push our sales contracts and take advantage of that demand until we can meet those customer expectations properly. So we've seen that our completed homes in inventory that are unsold are still below 1,000 homes and that's scattered across the country. So it's not like we're seeing any pile up of available inventory. It's when we're releasing homes, we're able to sell those homes in the normal course of business.

Speaker 1

And as a reminder, for those that may not have heard the stress test commentary last quarter and just to quantify that, The stress test that we've done on our backlog is if interest rates were to raise rise 100 basis points, what that at risk buyer would look like And it's generally mid to high single digit percentage of potential at risk with a full 100 basis point move. And that's really just at risk. We would not expect a total fallout in that regard. We look to document additional income, Look to put those buyers in additional and in different mortgage products than they're currently, anticipating. So we feel pretty comfortable still with the ability of our buyers from an affordability perspective.

Speaker 6

Thanks for all the info. Appreciate it.

Operator

Your next question is coming from Matthew Bouley from Barclays. Matthew, your line is live. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Hey, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking the question and congrats on the results here in a pretty tough environment. So on the order outlook, Bill, you spoke to the Q1 uptick, I think Suggesting basically 28% higher sequentially versus Q4, which is certainly well above historical norms and Not surprising as you release those sales restrictions and the inventory homes are there. Does this kind of atypical uptick Get you back to equilibrium for lack of a better term? Or should we understand that just given your inventory position Ahead of the spring that we can perhaps see yet another, I guess I'd call it unusual uptick you kind of release those sales and continue to lessen the sales restrictions?

Speaker 7

Thank you.

Speaker 3

Yes. Thanks, Matt. I think we're still

Speaker 4

in an unusual environment. The prior year trends Really don't apply to where we are today. Our sales order pace and sequential pace of our sales order is really driven by supply. It's by the homes that we have started that we have in production that reached the stage that we're ready to release them for sales. And so Our sales volumes are really governed by or constrained by our homes and inventory and where they stand.

Speaker 4

And so Right now with the visibility that we have to Q1, we believe we're in position where we will deliver sales that are equal to or maybe slightly better than last year's level, which is an unusual sequential pattern versus where we were in Q4 when we were restricting sales. And then as we move into the year, I think the pattern will still be governed by our inventory levels.

Speaker 3

Well, I think what you're going to see in our forward expectation on sales, it's kind of aligning with our growth in that we've had over the past few quarters. And as Bill said, as those homes come through production and reach production stages that we're confident in the delivery date, And we're able to release those to the marketplace for sales.

Speaker 7

That's great. Thank you both for that. Secondly, on ASPs, I think the Revenue guide, if I'm doing the math right, implies maybe mid to high single digit increases in ASPs in Fiscal year 2022 give or take, obviously, your order ASPs have been north of that for 2 consecutive quarters, if not Well north of that here in Q4, are there just any assumptions around geographic or product mix that we should be aware of that might Tempur closing ASPs into next

Speaker 4

year? I think we're looking at The year as a whole and what our ASP will be for the year will ultimately be dependent on the spring selling season. And so the assumption that Prices for the year will be up mid to high single digit. I think that's fair. We're not going to assume that prices will continue to increase as fast as they have.

Speaker 4

And so our base assumption will be there'll be some moderation in sales prices. We're going to continue to be focused on affordability from an intentional perspective For our business and so for our initial guide going into the year prior to seeing what the spring will look like, prior to seeing what Supply chain challenges will continue to be and what that will do to us over the course of the year, we've set our ASP target as you've seen. Great.

Speaker 7

Well, thank you all and good luck.

Speaker 3

Thank you. Thanks, Matt.

Operator

Your next question is coming from Mike Rehaut of JPMorgan. Mike, your line is live. Please go ahead.

Speaker 8

Thanks. Good morning, everyone. First question, I was hoping to get a little bit of sense of how you're thinking about gross margins, Yes, Elyse, perhaps directionally through fiscal 'twenty two and even longer term, understanding obviously a lot is in flux. But As you look through the rest of the year, obviously a lot of people are focusing on the reduction of lumber costs As a tailwind, at the same time, you have some other headwinds in terms of additional cost inflation. And I guess assuming incentives and discounts are steady, Just trying to get a sense of how you think at this point between lumber and other areas of cost inflation and The current pricing that you have in place, how things might progress throughout the rest of 'twenty two?

Speaker 1

And Mike, we really don't have much visibility to our gross margin past a quarter or 2. So you heard our specific gross margin guide for Q1, which was essentially relatively in line with Q4, as Bill mentioned, continued lumber headwinds In that December quarter, some of that does back off as we move throughout next year, but ultimately the gross margin that we achieved for fiscal 2022 as a whole is going to be dependent on the strength of the spring selling season, which we're pretty far out on. But I think we do feel with the strength in today's market, We should be in a very good position to continue to hopefully at least maintain gross margins from here. But we'll update as necessary As we move throughout the year and see how the spring unfolds and some of these supply chain pressures that are continuing to drive some cost increases. Mike,

Speaker 8

no, no, no. I appreciate that. I guess also just longer term, You're kind of in a new state of play here in terms of plus or minus around 27%. Just 3 years ago, you were at closer to 20% versus the last cycle. I think your peak was around 25.5 in 2,005.

Speaker 8

Over the next 2, 3, 4 years, as you're underwriting deals today, and just kind of curious, obviously, you kind of Underwrite them for returns, but there is a gross margin component in that. How should we think about a Normal or even a new normal, again, assuming that we don't have this over the next 12 months, 18 months like a complete mean reversion to a, let's say, a fuller incentive type backdrop or whatnot.

Speaker 3

Appreciate that. And it's a great point. 1, we do focus 1st and foremost on returns and not just the margin. You're right. It is a component of the return equation.

Speaker 3

And 3 years ago, as you mentioned, we were around 20%. And if we had said at the time, we think 3 years from now, we'll be at 27%, don't think we'd have gotten a lot of credibility for that prediction. So it's really hard, as Jessica mentioned before, to really give us any great Degree of confidence in predicting accurately what margins will be several periods out. I do think in our forward underwriting is that We are encouraged by what we see and what we'll be able to achieve in margins going forward. And ultimately, it's the return and the cash back That's driving our investment decisions today.

Speaker 1

2 of the things that we can't point to, a lot of the Questions have been about are there structural changes in the business that can lead to maintaining a higher gross margin over the long term than what we've historically seen. They're not enough to keep us at 27%, but two things we would point to that we believe we can maintain are the scale advantages there. We would expect it to maintain some level of improvement in our margin from that, But then also less interest in our cost of sales. With what we've done with our balance sheet in terms of reducing our leverage, we will be flowing through less cost of sales Consistently going forward.

Speaker 2

In the entire industry, it's consolidated. It's a maturing industry. So my anticipation is you're going to see more stability than typically has been associated around Prior cycles. I think that there's a consistency of discipline in the industry today that It's never existed.

Speaker 8

One last quick one, if I could sneak it in. How should we think about community count and sales pace In 2022 versus 2021 in terms of I think over in terms of just growth from both aspects.

Speaker 1

It's going to continue to be mainly driven by absorption rather than community count. We would expect for the full year to have A modest increase in our community count, but I think as I referenced to Carl at the outset of the call, if we have the houses and lots, We're going to ultimately sell and close the house. And so that's generally the better indicator of where our business is going than just what our absolute community count is doing.

Speaker 8

Great. Thank you.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Mike.

Operator

Your next question is coming from Deepa Raghavan. Deepa, your line is live. Please go ahead.

Speaker 9

Hi, good morning, everyone. Nice quarter and thanks for taking my questions. My first one is on your start space in October, 8 ks or higher homes, that suggests a pretty solid rate. Perhaps there's some timing benefit here, but can you walk us through some of the puts and takes to a normalized touch PACE near term or is this a good run rate for 2023 deliveries with perhaps upside When supply chain improves?

Speaker 2

I think the run rate that we're targeting is pretty well established For the 1st 4 months to 6 months of this year, so that's a consistent run rate we're targeting. I think that we're basing our guidance and everything and what we're projecting for the year On the way the supply chain exists today, and we have to carry more houses and inventory To support that double digit growth than we typically have had to do in the past. So we're positioning for it. We'll see what the spring brings and We'll see what the material and labor supply issues either resolve, mitigate or get worse.

Speaker 1

It's a lot easier to slow down our start spend than it is to speed it up. So we consistently adjust our start Based on what our forward outlook is?

Speaker 2

What we control is our liquidity and our process and our targets. And we're very focused on the liquidity because it's a risk mitigator and it allows us to be more flexible And what we target and how we operate.

Speaker 4

We've already talked on this call about we're in an unusual time in terms of how our sales pace looks. We're also in an unusual time in terms of historical measures of our homes and inventory relative to what we can close with extended construction times and all the disruptions, as David said, we have to Hold more homes and inventory to deliver the same number of closings today versus a few years ago.

Speaker 1

The offset to that is we've grown

Speaker 2

a lot

Speaker 1

less land in terms of year supply. So we're still driving very impressive returns.

Speaker 2

Well, again, we're very focused on liquidity and maintaining that flexibility. That is a key competitive advantage, I think, Whatever happens in the market.

Speaker 9

All fair comments. Thanks for that. My follow-up is pretty high level Question to the extent you're just willing to discuss, how do you think the supply chain is going to play out? I Do appreciate that the visibility is not great beyond a quarter or more at best. But just given the current state, What are your thoughts on a realistic best case or worst case scenario playing out in fiscal 2022?

Speaker 9

Or even if you don't want to go all out to 2022, What are some of the scenarios as we enter spring selling season? Thank you.

Speaker 2

From a supply chain standpoint, I think you've got some of the best companies that have ever existed in the history of the world Focused on that and I think they're going to get it figured out. And the people that we do business with are The best of the best in that industry. So I'm very confident. Was it Q1, Q2, Q3? I don't know that, But I am very confident that the people that are working on it are going to get it resolved.

Speaker 2

And when that happens, I think our we will return to an inventory conversion rate Consistent with what we've done in the past, maybe even a little better.

Operator

Your next question is coming from Anthony Pettinari from Citigroup. Anthony, your line is live. Please go ahead.

Speaker 10

Hi, this is Asher Sonnen on for Anthony. And I just want to ask, you mentioned that you need more homes in inventory now to deliver the same number of homes. And just are you able to articulate a target around maybe your normalized spec count for this kind of new normal? And then when supply chains do clear up, do you expect to reduce that That count eventually or because it's become like the new normal going forward?

Speaker 4

Absolutely. When we get back to a more normalized time, we would expect our inventory turns to return back To historical norms, as David said or better, historically if you looked at the beginning of the year for us, you could take our homes and inventory You could pretty well double that and that's what we would close the next year. Sometimes we've done a little better than that, sometimes a little worse. In the current environment, if it remains as tough as it is right now, We would not be able to do that. Our guidance obviously would imply that.

Speaker 4

But absolutely, when we get back to a more normal time, we would expect to reduce We expect out and turn our inventory and focus on generating the best returns we possibly can. This is simply a reflection of the current environment we're in, the elongated construction times we're seeing.

Speaker 10

Great, great. And then as a follow-up, just understanding that the sales declines in the quarter is kind of function of supply. But I'm just curious, have you seen any markets where maybe prices are starting to

Speaker 11

get a bit frothy or

Speaker 10

that you're concerned around affordability, maybe seeing some buyers start to walk away around the margins?

Speaker 3

I think it's pretty clear that the market is not as white hot right now as it was in the spring. But we're still seeing very strong demand And the homes that we're releasing for sale are still being absorbed quite well with great historical low levels of incentives in place. And so we're seeing very few homes complete construction that are not being sold prior to that completion process.

Speaker 2

And I'd also say that even though our ASP has gone up, and it's not a sustainable Right. It's quarter to quarter to quarter. It is something that I think indicates the level of demand out there when you restrict on the houses Yes, so it's a good time They'll be selling out today.

Speaker 4

Demand still exceeds supply. Yes.

Speaker 1

And I think in terms of Mike's comment, it's Not as white hot as in the spring, we are seeing I think somewhat of a return to normal seasonality as well. We wouldn't expect the market to be as strong today as it is during the spring selling season. So we still feel very good as we move throughout fiscal 2022 that the market

Speaker 3

Right. Of those 900 homes we have that are completed and unsold, less than 100 have been completed for an extended period of time, Out of almost $50,000

Speaker 10

Thanks. That's very helpful. I'll turn it over.

Operator

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Jade Harmani from KBW. Jade, your line is live. Please go ahead.

Speaker 12

Thank you very much. On the land side, you said that sequentially lot costs were up 2% quarter over quarter. How much do you think they're up year over year?

Speaker 1

Give me one second, Jade. I have it. I just they're up about a mid single digit percentage, Which has been pretty consistent now for last year or 2 on a year over year basis.

Speaker 12

Okay. That's somewhat surprising because I think historically land usually appreciates in line with depreciation or perhaps at a faster clip. Do you expect Lot costs to begin accelerating? Is the moderate pace of growth Reflective of the timing at which you acquired these lots?

Speaker 3

That's got a lot to do with it, Jade. It's the homes we're delivering this quarter are delivered on a Large variety of vintages of lot acquisitions of 1 we contracted for the land and contracted for the lots. And so you're seeing a big blend come through. So generally, we are seeing cost inflation in our lot cost and what we're currently buying. But it takes it's a muted impact in the near term and it takes several years for those costs to be fully reflected through into our closings.

Speaker 4

And this is one of the strengths of our long lot pipeline and our controlled lot position because we've got land and lots controlled generally at fixed prices or Known prices, and so we reap the benefits of that by having a strong controlled lot position.

Speaker 12

Thanks for taking the questions.

Operator

Your next question is coming from Truman Patterson from Wolfe Research. Truman, your line is live. Please go ahead.

Speaker 13

Gens and Paul, congratulations on the promotion. Just wanted to follow-up on A prior question, but your 2022 closings expectations, up about 11% year over year at the midpoint. You all mentioned material shortages in multiple products currently, but David, you've made a couple of comments that you expect Improvement in 2022. I'm just trying to understand what are your suppliers telegraphing you with respect to 2022 capacity, are they adding employees, lines, etcetera? Just what sort of level of growth do they think they can support?

Speaker 2

We've got commitments from all of our major material guys They're going to support us. They know our numbers. They know what we're trying to accomplish. They see our start base for The last 6 months and the next 6 months. So and they are really good companies.

Speaker 2

I mean, it's I'm not going to pull out a bunch of names because I'll forget about half of them. CEO of Whirlpool came in and met with Don Horton, myself and the entire executive team. It's a level of partnership and Commitment to each other, I think, that just hadn't existed in the past. And I think as a result of the consolidation of the industry and The significant 10% market share in new home housing is a real number.

Speaker 1

And in our conversations, they are hiring, they are opening new lines, Unemployment benefits going away is expected to have some impact. I think some of the Extended impact from the Texas freeze is also expected to be worked through as we move into calendar 2022. So as David said, I mean, these things are taking a while to work through, but they are doing what they need to do to help For our business and as always, we expect them to support D. R. Horton's business first and for a lot of those pressures to be felt with smaller builders versus us.

Speaker 2

Having scale, significant scale in these markets is a huge benefit for us. And I think really gives us More access and better service than some of the smaller less people with less scale.

Speaker 3

Having a forward lot pipeline of over 500,000 lots makes it pretty powerful as a conversation piece in talking with the large suppliers.

Speaker 13

Okay. Okay. Fair enough. And in your capital allocation priorities, I don't believe that I heard anything about M and A. Could you just discuss any or the level In your pipeline that you're seeing, are valuations stretched at this point?

Speaker 13

And then just a second question, I'm sure it's well deserved, but Could you all just run through the decision behind creating the co COO chair?

Speaker 3

Sure. I'll take the first question and let David handle the second question. The M and A landscape is pretty similar to where it's been the past few quarters. It's anecdotal. We're not looking for any major transformational M and A opportunities.

Speaker 3

It should be hard for us to accomplish one of those At the scale we're at today, but we are looking at tuck in acquisitions to add great platforms and people to the team across the country where we may Maybe looking for growth, and it's an ongoing conversation with people in that process, but don't look for any major use of capital on that front today.

Speaker 2

And on the co COO program, in looking at our platform, We basically have doubled in the last 5 years. And during COVID, trying to get places being not only From an executive officer standpoint, but from a regional president standpoint, we were asking guys to get on planes and really Became less and less comfortable with that. So I think on the last call, I made a Statement about infrastructure and then immediately had a quick kind of quick talking about it because the infrastructure I was talking about was our platform, Which was dual COO roles and then doubling our reach count and it So that we're continuing to scale up our platform to make to coincide with the scale up in market share that we're gaining. And we've got great people that have performed at exceptional levels. But as you move up that next step, The role changes and the skill set changes.

Speaker 2

So you've got to get young guys in a position to in my mind anyway and what we've You've got to get the younger guy into a position, a regional role where he's working through divisions Scaling up in absorptions, we need to scale up in people. And Paul gives us the ability to touch the regional guys More consistently and to be in the markets more consistently. As he travels, Mike travels, I travel. And by Increasing the number of regions, we were then able to elevate people within divisions to leadership roles. And it's just kind of a consistent stair step where we get more people access to that role and give them a chance to learn that job before Something happens and you were forced to make a change.

Speaker 2

So it's a part of Continuing to scale for our next 5 years in a row and it's we've got great people and We've got incredibly strong management team and that's something that to be honest with you, I think about all the time is the quality of our people That's a division level and region level compared to when I started to the company or compared to when we went public or even compared to the last cycle, Well, that's a super cycle of 506. So it's the company is in incredibly good position with incredibly good people. And Paul is going to help us get make it even better.

Operator

Your next question is coming from Eric Fossard from Cleveland Research. Eric, your line is live. Please go ahead. Thank you. 2 things.

Speaker 14

First of all, in terms of the spring selling season, I know that You don't have visibility to it. And so there's, by definition, some degree of uncertainty. But as you look at your position and what you're seeing in the market now, Could you identify these are the areas of notable uncertainty that you just won't know until you get to the spring?

Speaker 3

That's sort of the unknown unknowns. It's always a great question. It's one of the things we're always trying To ponder and peer around the quarter and figure out what's going to happen. But one of the big unknowns going into the year is not from a demand side, but from a production capacity As David said before, is it going to get better, stay the same or get worse? I mean, it may different parts of it may do all 3 over the next 6 to 9 months.

Speaker 3

And being prepared to handle those challenges is what we deal with every day. As we say, when people want to and can buy homes, We can solve the rest of the problems. That's our job. Still see good demand trends out there, still see very good traffic this fall in the models, Quality of traffic, interest of traffic and our realtor participation has been really strong Starting the fall. So that for us that would be a good sign for continuing what happens.

Speaker 2

What we can control, Eric, is Inventory and how we position it to be in front of that spring market and that we feel very good about. So we can That is where we can have targets, we can have a plan, we can execute that plan and then we'll respond to the market as it comes.

Speaker 14

Okay. That's helpful. And then secondly, a lot of talk about affordability earlier in the call, and I know there's A lot of components of affordability, but ultimately, for your customer, it's them paying the price for the house. And the order ASP, I think coming out of 4Q is now 380,000, which is certainly different than it was 2 or 3 years ago for the company. I'm just curious how you think about that, especially how you think about it relative to The different products that you have and relative to markets, how you think consumers respond to that, customers respond to that and the path forward?

Speaker 3

It's something we talk about and try to stay focused on providing more affordable homes and being the relative affordable choice in a given marketplace. Look at our mortgage company statistics and we can see that almost 60% of our buyers this quarter were first time homebuyers and almost 60% of our buyers had a combined household income, reported income for the mortgage purposes at least of $90,000 or less. And so we still think that provides A good target market for us to continue to look to serve. And while we have seen pricing come up And average loan size come up, the debt to income ratios that we're seeing across the loans we're underwriting has not really budged. It's been pretty consistent.

Speaker 1

And as the industry as a whole has continued to increase sales prices, relatively speaking, we still do have The lowest average sales price generally than almost all the large public builders.

Speaker 14

Okay. That's helpful context.

Speaker 3

Thank you. Thank you.

Operator

And the final question we have time for today is coming from Alan Ratner from Zelman and Associates. Helen, your line is live. Please go ahead.

Speaker 11

Hey, guys. Good morning. Thanks for squeezing me in here. So I'd love to drill in a little bit on the rental operations. Obviously breaking it out this quarter and certainly I think over $700,000,000 of revenue, Clearly got some aggressive growth plans there.

Speaker 11

So I guess focusing first on the single family rental side, I'd love to hear Your thoughts kind of on the rollout there and maybe what you've been surprised on or maybe what's reaffirmed your views up to this point as you start leasing up communities and selling them. Are you seeing any interesting trends on who these renters are? Are they longer term renters that are choosing to rent? Are they people Waiting for a new home to be built, any kind of either anecdotal or data you could provide there? And I guess longer term, How big of a piece of the business do you want to target this at?

Speaker 2

I would say the renters are not Terribly different than first time homebuyers. People moving into areas, they're looking for housing. They're looking for a better lifestyle. Things that probably have surprised us, level of demand and the lack Not only from a rental standpoint, but from a what I consider an institutional type investor base That has bought the 3 that we've sold. It may not be a white hot for sale business This year compared to last year, but it is a white hot, build a ramp business, especially the way we're positioning These projects as kind of on the affordable end, self contained, not intermixed with wholesale housing.

Speaker 11

Got it. So on that note, David, with how strong as demand has been, I guess, first off, is the 35% margin that you guys generated at that business, Is that a realistic kind of intermediate term margin on that $700 plus 1,000,000 of revenue? And is the plan still to do the merchant build approach? You mentioned the A lot of your peers have either partnered up with some of those investors and established joint ventures or some ongoing investment there. It You're kind of choosing more of the merchant build approach.

Speaker 11

So profitability and longer term and any reason why maybe this strategy changes there?

Speaker 4

We've got a small sample size thus far on those that we've closed. We've been very pleased with the profit levels we've seen. I expect We will still see some projects that will generate those level of profits, but as we grow the platform and as we build the infrastructure in place to support a larger volume across The country wouldn't necessarily expect to continue to generate the same margin that we've shown in these first few, but do expect pre tax profit margins to be higher on the rental business than on our for sale business. And to generate an accretive return, it needs to be a little bit higher because the assets are Held a little bit longer. So do still expect to see very attractive profit levels on the rental business, But the current sample size is still a little bit small.

Speaker 3

And as we've said before, as we learn the business, then we'd make our capitalization decisions About how to go about capitalizing the business. So we're still evaluating that, looking at options there.

Speaker 2

I will say that everything we work on, everything we think about, we want to do things that are sustainable and scalable. And I can tell you the rental side of this market certainly seems sustainable and with our platform He is scalable. So we're pretty excited about it.

Speaker 11

Great. Thanks for all the color there, guys.

Operator

Thank you. This does conclude today's question and answer session. I would now like to turn the floor back to David Ault for closing comments.

Speaker 1

R. Horton:]

Speaker 2

Thank you, Tom. We appreciate everybody's time on the call today and look forward to speaking with you again in January On our Q1 results. And finally, congratulations to the entire D. R. Horton team.

Speaker 2

You are the first homebuilder To close more than 50,000 homes, you are now the first to close greater than 80,000 homes in a year, And you are well on your way to becoming the 1st homebuilder to close more than 100,000 homes in a year. Stay humble, stay hungry and stay focused. You'll compete and continue to win every day. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day. Thank you for

Speaker 9

your participation.

Powered by Quartr