Fifth Third Bancorp Q3 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Quartr
Provided by Quartr
October 19, 2023

There are 14 speakers on the call.

Operator

Good morning. My name is Rob, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the 5th Third Bancorp Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, There will be a question and answer session.

Operator

Thank you. Chris Stahl, Head of Investor Relations, you may begin your conference.

Speaker 1

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to 5th Third's Q3 2023 earnings call. This morning, our President and CEO, Tim Spence And CFO, Jimmy Leonard, will provide an overview of our Q3 results and outlook. Our Treasurer, Brian Preston and Chief Credit Officer, Greg Schreck, have also joined us Q and A portion of the call. Please review the cautionary statements in our materials, which can be found in our earnings release and presentation.

Speaker 1

These materials contain information regarding the use of non GAAP measures and reconciliations to the GAAP results as well as forward looking statements about 5th Third's performance. These statements speak only as of October 19, 2023, and 5th Third undertakes no obligation to update them. Following prepared remarks by Tim McGhaney, we will open the call up for questions. With that, let me turn it over to Tim.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Chris, and good morning, everyone. We believe that great banks distinguish themselves not by how they perform in benign environments, but rather by how they navigate challenging ones. That is why we focus on stability, profitability and growth In that order. It is also why I am so pleased that our key return and profitability metrics remain resilient despite the market related headwinds that all banks are facing. Earlier today, we reported earnings per share of $0.91 or $0.92 excluding a $0.01 impact from our Visa swap, reflecting strong PPNR results and favorable credit outcomes.

Speaker 2

We generated an adjusted return on tangible common equity ex AOCI of nearly 16%, which increased 50 basis points sequentially and a return on assets of 1.26%. We generated strong fee growth compared to the year ago quarter, supported by a more diverse range of fee income streams than peers and our investments in treasury management, capital markets and wealth management. Our 3rd quarter total non interest expense increase less than 2% compared to the year ago quarter, and we generated an adjusted efficiency ratio below 55%. In the last 4 years, we have managed expenses to the lowest growth rate among peers despite also investing in growth by building more new branches, Raising our minimum wage, modernizing our technology platforms and acquiring 4 FinTech Companies. Expense management at 5th Third is a continuous process and not a program.

Speaker 2

Since March of this year, full time equivalent employee headcount is down

Speaker 3

3.5%. Turning to

Speaker 2

the balance sheet. We generated 4% average deposit growth compared to the year ago quarter versus a 5% decline for the industry. New relationship growth remains strong. Consumer households grew more than 2%, led by 6% growth in the Southeast, a continuation of our multiyear growth base. New middle market relationships added year to date remain 25% ahead of last year's record pace.

Speaker 3

Thanks to the release

Speaker 2

of the annual FDIC summary of deposits, The 3rd quarter provides a unique opportunity to understand market share gains and losses on a metro area by metro area basis. This year, 5th Third maintained or improved our market rank in every single one of our 40 largest MSAs. In the Midwest, we maintained our number 2 overall position behind JPMorgan Chase. In the Southeast, Where we are just 4 years removed from opening our first next gen branch, we have reached or are approaching target locational share in 8 of our original 11 focus markets. We intend to continue to open approximately 35 branches per year through 2028, at which time nearly 50% of our branches will be in Southeast Markets.

Speaker 2

These market share gains are the byproduct of multiyear strategies that are not easily replicable by competitors. They include innovative operational deposit oriented products Like momentum banking, AI driven customer acquisition strategies and a top core style customer service model in addition to our investments in new branches. Our key credit metrics remained strong during the quarter. Charge offs were in line with our July expectations and both early stage delinquencies and non performing assets improved sequentially. The ACL increased 3 basis points given slight changes to Moody's macroeconomic forecast.

Speaker 2

Turning to liquidity and capital. We made significant progress against our goal to adapt early to expected changes in the regulatory framework. Our focused efforts throughout the bank enabled us to end the quarter with $103,000,000,000 in total liquidity sources And to achieve full Category 1 LCR compliance at the end of both August September. During the quarter, we also made significant progress on our RWA optimization initiative. Total RWA declined 1% compared to the prior quarter.

Speaker 2

Our exercise should be complete by the end of the Q4, so we can return to growing loans next year. We accreted over 30 basis points of CET1 Capital during the quarter, reflecting our strong earnings power, while we also raised our quarterly dividend by 6%. With respect to the economy, while aggregate figures on spending and employment remain strong and market sentiment has shifted more in favor of a soft landing, We continue to be more cautious given concerning signals disguised beneath the aggregates. For example, while the most recent headline payroll numbers were strong, Most, if not all the job growth is a byproduct of more people working part time jobs. Real average weekly earnings slipped every month during the quarter And the lower end of the consumer spectrum now maintains deposit balances below pre COVID levels.

Speaker 2

Anecdotally, The last time Google searches for soft landing were this high was in May of 2,008. Before I turn it over, I want to say thank you to our employees for everything you do to take care of our customers, strengthen our communities and support one another. Your efforts are why Time Magazine recently recognized 5th Third as one of World's Best Companies and why I am as confident as ever in 5th Third's ability to outperform through the cycle and to deliver innovations that improve lives for all our stakeholders. With that, Jamie will provide more details on our Q3 financial results and outlook.

Speaker 3

Thank you, Tim, and thanks all of you for joining us today. Our Q3 results were once again strong despite the market headwinds. We continue to strengthen our capital and liquidity levels ahead of pending regulations, while also managing our business very efficiently. We achieved an adjusted efficiency ratio below 55%, reflecting ongoing expense discipline throughout the bank and the continued diversification and resilience of our fee revenue streams. Net interest income of approximately $1,450,000,000 decreased 1% sequentially.

Speaker 3

Our NII and NIM results reflect our proactive and continued defensive positioning given the uncertain economic and regulatory environments. Our short term investments, which primarily represent our cash held at the Fed, increased $5,000,000,000 on an average basis and increased $8,000,000,000 on an end of period basis to $19,000,000,000 This increased level of cash was the primary driver of our 12 Basis Point NIM Decline. Adjusted non interest income increased 1% compared to the year ago quarter, driven by growth in capital markets and deposit service charge revenue, partially offset by a decrease in mortgage revenue, driven primarily by lower origination volumes. Our ability to produce strong capital markets revenue in a volatile market has become a key distinction for 5th Third compared to many peers. Adjusted non interest expense increased just 2% compared to the year ago quarter, reflecting growth in compensation and benefits, occupancy and technology expenses, partially offset by continued expense discipline across the company.

Speaker 3

Moving to the balance sheet. Total average portfolio loans and leases decreased 1% sequentially Due to softening customer demand and our RWA optimization efforts, average C and I balances decreased 2 sequentially. As Tim mentioned, clients remain cautious with respect to their growth plans. Consequently, production was muted in corporate banking. Also, average CRE balances decreased 1% compared to the prior quarter.

Speaker 3

The period end commercial revolver utilization rate of 36% increased 1% compared to last quarter, partially due to our exit of certain lower returning unused commercial commitments. On a sequential basis, total corporate banking commitments and unused commitments decreased 3% and 4%, respectively, while total middle market commitments and unused commitments increased 5% and 7%, respectively. This trend highlights our capital optimization efforts, while we continue to grow share in the middle market. Average total consumer portfolio loan and lease balances decreased 1% sequentially Due to our intentional decline in indirect auto and the overall slowdown in residential mortgage originations given the rate environment, partially offset by growth from dividend finance. Our card balances increased just 1% this quarter, reflecting our conservative risk culture and focus on transactors.

Speaker 3

Balances have increased 3% relative to the year ago quarter compared to 11% for the industry. Average total deposits increased 3% sequentially as increases in CDs and interest checking balances We're partially offset by a decline in demand deposits given the mix shift we have seen for several quarters. BDAs as a percent of core deposits were 28% for the quarter compared to 30% in the prior quarter. The 2 point decline was primarily due to the strong deposit growth in the denominator that Tim highlighted from our net new relationship growth in both consumer and commercial, which are obviously skewed to interest bearing products in this environment. As a result, we added more than $4,000,000,000 in core deposits during the quarter, the most since the Q4 of 2021.

Speaker 3

Additionally, the DDA migration continued to show signs of deceleration this quarter And marked the smallest dollar decline in DDA balances since the onset of the rate hiking cycle. By segment, average consumer deposits increased 2% sequentially and commercial deposits increased 4%, While Wealth and Asset Management deposits declined 2%, reflecting clients' alternative investment options. As a result of our balance sheet positioning and success adding new deposits, we achieved a loan to core deposit ratio of 74 at quarter end, which should be one of the best, if not the best compared to our regional peers. We also achieved full Category 1 LCR compliance at 118 percent atquarterend. Moving to credit.

Speaker 3

As Tim mentioned, credit has remained resilient. The net charge off ratio of 41 basis points increased 12 basis points compared to the prior quarter as we expected, reflecting 2 credits which have been fully reserved. Early stage delinquencies decreased 7% compared to the prior quarter, while loans 90 days past due of just 2 basis points or a record low for 5th Third. Nonperforming Loans Decreased 9%. This quarter marked the lowest inflows of commercial NPLs since the Q2 of 2022.

Speaker 3

From an overall credit management perspective, we have continually improved the granularity and of our loan portfolios through a focus on generating and maintaining high quality relationships. As many of you know, we tightened underwriting standards during COVID, which limited our growth, but improved the stability of our balance sheet. In consumer, we have focused on lending to homeowners, which is a segment less impacted by inflationary pressures and have maintained conservative underwriting policies. In commercial, we have maintained the lowest overall CRE concentration as a percent of total loans relative to peers for many years. Our criticized non performing and delinquent CRE loans have all improved sequentially and remain very well behaved.

Speaker 3

And within that, the same is true for our office exposures. For instance, Criticized office loans represented just 5.4 percent of total office CRE, which improved 180 basis points sequentially. Additionally, we have 0 delinquencies and 0 charge offs. We also decreased portfolio has remained very strong and we continue to believe the overall impact on 5th Third will be limited. We nevertheless continue to watch it closely given the environment.

Speaker 3

Our shared national credit portfolio Also remains very strong from a credit quality perspective, with criticized assets, non performing loans and net charge offs consistently lower than the overall commercial portfolio across a multiyear period. Our credit resilience highlights our proactive risk culture. We continue to closely monitor all exposures where inflation and higher rates may cause stress throughout the entire portfolio, As well as the fallout from the ongoing labor strike in the auto manufacturing sector, where we think our exposures are very manageable. Moving to the ACL. Our reserves decreased $5,000,000 but the coverage ratio increased 3 basis points sequentially to 2.11 percent as the impact of lower period end loans was offset by a slightly worse overall base case economic outlook.

Speaker 3

As you know, we incorporate Moody's macroeconomic scenarios when evaluating our allowance. Both the Moody's base scenario and the downside scenario used for the Q3 ACL assume a slightly worse average unemployment rate compared to the prior quarter. We maintained our scenario weightings of 80% to the base and 10% to each the upside and downside scenarios. Moving to capital. Our CET1 ratio increased 31 basis points sequentially, ending the quarter at 9.8%.

Speaker 3

Our capital position reflects our ability to build capital quickly through our strong earnings generation combined with the impact of our RWA diet. Our tangible book value per share, excluding AOCI, increased 10% compared to the year ago quarter. We continue to expect improvement in our unrealized securities losses, resulting in approximately 35% of our current loss position accreting back into equity by the end of 2025 and approximately 2 thirds by 2028 assuming the forward curve plays out. Looking forward, we expect to build capital at an accelerated pace given our RWA optimization initiative and our continued deferment of share buybacks. We anticipate accruing capital such that our CET1 ratio ends this year above 10%.

Speaker 3

Moving to our current outlook. We expect 4th quarter average total loan balances to decline 2% to 3% sequentially with consumer loans down 2% and commercial loans down 3%. This reflects our overall cautious economic outlook combined with 1 more quarter of our RWA diet As we are responding quickly to higher risk adjusted return thresholds throughout the bank considering the economic and regulatory environments. We expect average deposits to be up slightly on a sequential basis. Within that, we expect core deposits to increase 1% Due to our multiyear investments in the franchise to add households and primary commercial relationships along with the benefit from seasonality.

Speaker 3

While we continue to expect modest migration from DDA into interest bearing products in a higher for longer interest rate environment, Specifically for the Q4, we expect the mix of DDA to core deposits to remain relatively stable given those seasonal benefits. Shifting to the income statement. We expect 4th quarter NII to be down approximately 1% to 2% sequentially due to the continued impacts of the balance sheet dynamics I mentioned. Our NII guidance assumes no additional rate hikes and a cumulative beta, which includes CDs and excludes DDAs of 55% by the 4th quarter. Excluding broker deposits that we have been using as a replacement for other wholesale funding given the pricing considerations, Our cumulative beta expectation continues to be 53%.

Speaker 3

This outlook translates to total interest bearing deposit costs increasing 15 to 20 basis points in the 4th quarter. Our guidance assumes that our securities portfolio balances remain relatively stable through year end. As a byproduct of our strong deposit growth combined with our loan outlook and stable securities balances, We expect to hold closer to $20,000,000,000 in cash and cash equivalents by year end. Given these balance trends, we expect our loan to core deposit ratio to continue to move lower through the end of the year, which will keep 5th Third in a strong liquidity position in anticipation of more stringent regulatory requirements, including remaining compliant with the full Category 1 LCR. We expect 4th quarter adjusted non interest income to increase 1% to 2% compared to the Q3.

Speaker 3

We expect revenues to remain resilient across most captions, driven by our multiyear focus on growing a diverse portfolio of fee businesses that should perform well in different economic environments. We expect 4th quarter TRA revenue of $22,000,000 compared to $46,000,000 in the Q4 of 2022. We expect 4th quarter adjusted non interest expenses to be stable to up 1% compared to the 3rd quarter. Our guidance excludes the pending FDIC special assessment, which we currently estimate at $208,000,000 for 5th Third. With respect to credit quality, we expect 4th quarter net charge offs to be 30 to 35 basis points.

Speaker 3

We do expect to gradually normalize from here. We continue to believe that our through the cycle annual charge offs will be in the 35 to 45 basis point range given the credit risk profile of the bank. Given our reduced loan outlook, we expect the change in the ACL for the Q4 to be stable to up $25,000,000 assuming no significant changes in the underlying Moody's economic scenarios. This considers production from dividend finance of around $700,000,000 in the 4th quarter, which as you know carries a higher reserve level of around 9%. In summary, with our proactive balance sheet management, disciplined credit risk management and commitment to delivering strong performance through the cycle.

Speaker 3

We believe we are well positioned to meet the proposed regulatory requirements, while continuing to generate long term value for our shareholders. With that, let me turn it over to Chris to open the call up for Q and A.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Jamie. Before we start Q and A, given the time we have this morning, we ask that you limit yourself to one question and a follow-up and then return to the queue if you have additional questions. Operator, please open the call up for Q and A.

Operator

And your first question comes from the line of Scott Siefers from Piper Sandler. Your line is open.

Speaker 4

Good morning, everybody. Thank you for taking the question. Jamie, I was wondering maybe you can could expand even a little more on your thoughts on bringing in so many deposits in the Q3. I know you're Trying to get your liquidity to a certain very high level and you achieved it, but it was just a kind of astonishing number. So Just curious as to what the thinking throughout the quarter was.

Speaker 4

I guess additional forward look though, You provided some of the deposit commentary or expectations in there, but just any additional thoughts would be helpful, please.

Speaker 3

Yes. Thanks, Scott for the question. We were certainly ringing the victory bell on deposits this quarter. Really, when you take a look back coming out of March Madness, one of the biggest drivers of our Deposit success in the second quarter and the third quarter was really transitioning our customer recommendation engine From household growth to deposit growth. And while that sacrificed a little bit on the household growth numbers instead of our typical up 3% or up 4%.

Speaker 3

We were up 2% on households, but that translated to very strong consumer deposit growth. And so within The deposit growth we did have during the quarter of almost $4,800,000,000 about 60% was commercial, 40% was consumer and within consumer 70% of that growth was in the Southeast markets, while 30% of that growth Was in the Midwest. So again, the retail franchise at 5th Third is just performing at an extremely high level. And on the commercial side, The growth was surprisingly high given the corporate banking book growth within The commercial deposit growth, about 80% of the growth was in corporate banking. So at the time, we were targeting let's get LCR, Our full LCR north of 100%.

Speaker 3

We actually came in at 118%. So, definitely did better than we initially expected. But when we were Dissecting the quarter end results, it really makes sense that the corporate banking book did better. And as one of the sort of hidden benefits of the RWA diet is that we are getting better share of wallet within that corporate banking book and that also helped drive the deposit growth. So overall, a very strong quarter.

Speaker 3

Again, for us on the deposit side, we expect continued growth in the 4th quarter, albeit at a little bit lower growth rate, but still up a bit in the 4th quarter.

Speaker 4

Thank you. And then if I switch gears for just a second, the securities portfolio remarks, I guess you all might come out looking A little heavier than some others. But by the same token, you guys have been more hesitant to use the HCM classification as well. I guess just any updated thoughts on sort of how you're thinking about that, at At least optically would help out levels, if not in terms of real world, but just curious to hear your updated thoughts.

Speaker 3

Yes. If you break it down between real world and regulatory world, that's really how we are looking at this. In the real world with Really, the economic risk, whenever you have a fixed rate asset, whether that's in AFS, HTM or in the loan portfolio, You have that economic risk to higher rates. We have elected to hold our securities in AFS and we'll continue to do so, Given that it gives us better flexibility and opportunity to reposition as the environment changes, But when you are in the real world managing the balance sheet, how we approach balance sheet management is in totality. And you can look at our strong NII results, our interest bearing liability results, any of the measures relative The total balance sheet is performing very well.

Speaker 3

We're going to grow NII this year 3% to 5%, others are shrinking. So, Our philosophy is paying off in the real world. The challenge simply comes from the fair value of a single line item and putting that into capital. We're not insensitive to how that looks on the face of the balance sheet and the tangible book value per share, But we still believe it is prudent to have that flexibility because flexibility has value. In terms of the regulatory risk, perhaps one of the details that we continue to evaluate is something that was not really communicated to all of you externally is that Given the burn down that you have in the presentation and the significant whether it's static rate, forward rate, you're looking at 60%, 65% of the AOC burn down During the transition into the new capital regimes, assuming the rules play out as currently written, And that burn down is going to happen on our portfolio because our portfolio has structure.

Speaker 3

We have defined maturities, Unlike those portfolios that are in residential mortgage backed instruments with convexity extension risk. We know our portfolio is going to pay down and we know that this is going to be very manageable from a regulatory capital When we model the capital impact at a fully phased in level on AOCI, the impact on CET1 It's about 125 basis points when you reach the Q3 of 2028. And that's why we continue to accrete CET1 is to be able to have sufficient regulatory capital for that world. And in fact, should rates Get north of 8%, we would still be maintaining a CET1 well above regulatory So we feel good about how we're positioned, how we will roll down the curve and ultimately the regulatory Capital. It's just one of the challenges in this environment with everything in AFS Is that you have that mark on the tangible book value per share, that erosion, but at the same time should rates fall, I think all of you would be very pleased with how much tangible book value accretion we would report in that environment.

Speaker 5

Hi, Scott. If I just put

Speaker 2

a point on the last thing Jamie said, I mean, we believe investors want us to do What is best for managing the business and for recognizing the fact that options have value. But if you believe that the AOCI mark is weighing on the stock, then the other way to look at it is the burn down is 25 percent accretion in tangible book value per share in the next 2 years, just given the current outlook on rates, Which is a pretty unique buying opportunity, the other way to look at it.

Speaker 4

Yes. Agreed. All right. That's perfect. So Tim and Jimmy, thank you both.

Operator

And your next question comes from the line of Erika Najarian from UBS. Your line is open.

Speaker 6

Hi, good morning.

Operator

Hey, Erica.

Speaker 6

Hey, Jamie, this first one is for you. Not to belabor the earlier point, but All the PPNR metrics and balance sheet metrics look great and so did the forward look. And I guess, if you could just explain what happened in the quarter, I think given that your portfolio, your securities portfolio is 61% CMBS, I think Investors that know UL expected not as much negative convexity. Was there something unique that happened in this quarter In the portfolio that where the AOCI was that much wider?

Speaker 3

Not really. It was a pretty vanilla quarter for us where we had cash flows in the quarter of about 500,000,000 We put about $700,000,000 to work of the excess cash in short duration level 1 treasury floaters. When you look at the AOCI walk that happened in the quarter. The securities portfolio because everything is in AFS worsened about $1,200,000,000 And if you look at how the 5 year moved, it increased about 45 basis The 10 year moved about 75 and then spreads widened 5 bps on the CMBS and about 15 in Mortgage. So, when you add it all up with the DV01 of about $25,000,000 that gets you to the AOCI movement for the quarter on the investment portfolio.

Speaker 3

And so, it was In line at least with our expectations with how rates were moving during the quarter.

Speaker 6

Got it. And my follow-up question was for you, Tim. I think It was a very powerful statement you said in the beginning of the call in terms of confidence that you could return to loan growth next year. I think several of your peers that have similar CET1 ratios and similar AOCI marks are still talking about dieting. Could you give us a sense of, first of all, if you could confirm what the AOCI Was in Basis Points, Jamie.

Speaker 6

And second, Tim, how are you balancing, on one hand, the market Want you to continue to build capital as we approach that transitional date on CET1. And on the other, we're still hearing low demand from corporates for financing.

Speaker 7

Yes. So

Speaker 2

there's a lot in there. But that's the right question, Erica. So a few things here. 1, I think We have tried to be consistent in how we confront change or a need for change And how we operate the company. And the underlying principle here is that if you have to make a change, it's better to do it quickly, So that you can get it behind you and return to normal mode of operation.

Speaker 2

So we have been aggressive at building liquidity. Jamie talked about the fact that we were CAT 1 LCR compliant in both August September this year. And I think equivalently, we have tried to be very proactive about How we manage through the RWA diet. So we have one additional quarter to go of dieting to hit our RWA target, which was about a 2% reduction, if you just look at what we're expecting in the Q4. And from there, we'll have achieved what we think we need to achieve in order to be able to refocus on growing the balance sheet prudently, I should say, growing the loan portfolio prudently sequentially over the course of the next year.

Speaker 2

We have the benefit of a very high level of profitability right now, right? We obviously don't have all of the peer reports at this But if you look at the core profitability measures here, they're excellent. We're generating 30 plus basis points of CET1 a quarter, Which is quite helpful as it relates to being able to both build capital and fund loan growth. And then while demand is tepid Across the sector, we have some idiosyncratic benefits here that probably have been a little bit lost behind the diet in the form of Both dividend and provide, which continue to perform very well and generate growth and this sustained multiyear investment we've made In expanding our middle market coverage in the Southeast markets, right? The middle market relationships In terms of the new relationships we've added to the company year to date are 25% ahead of our all time record pace, And we still have bankers who are seasoning in, in terms of building their portfolios that we have been fortunate to hire over the course of the past few years.

Speaker 2

So those are the things that really provide the catalyst in an environment where demand in aggregate It's a little bit more tepid and then the raw capacity in the form of capital generation to be able to support that statement that we can return to growth next year.

Speaker 3

And then, Erica, on your other components of the question, CET1 for us finished the quarter at 9.8%, Excluding the investment portfolio AOCI, that number would be 6.3% And then the RWA bloat from the pending rules would be about 2% to 3% of RWA, which is about 20 basis points. So, we would look to be at a 6.1 level. But as we talked about, then The earnings power of the company is very strong. We continue to defer the buybacks. We'll continue to accrete capital.

Speaker 3

And with the passage of time, given the structure in the investment portfolio. The burn down of that AOCI will be 65% or so by the time we reach the fully phased in level. So, we feel This is a very manageable timeline for the company. In fact, have a lot of cushion should rates even go higher.

Operator

And your next question comes from the line of Gerard Cassidy from RBC. Your line is open.

Speaker 8

Hey, Gerard.

Speaker 9

Hi, Tim. Hi, Tim. Hi, Jamie. How are you guys?

Speaker 10

Very good.

Speaker 9

Tim, coming back to your opening comments about your corporate and commercial customers being cautious And you yourself seeing some of the economic crosswinds or crosscurrents being cautious. I noticed yesterday that the real GDP number that the Atlanta Fed puts For the 3rd quarter is calling for 5.4% real GDP growth in the 3rd quarter. It's probably too high, but the point is there are a lot of gross currents. Can you share with us, when you talk to your customers, what do you think it's going to take them to become more optimistic I'm most cautious. Is it a Fed halting in rate and increasing short term interest rates?

Speaker 9

Is it Better inflation numbers, what do you think they're waiting for before they really start committing to borrowing more money and growing their businesses?

Speaker 2

Yes. That's a great question, Gerard. I think honestly, it's less uncertainty, right, to your point. So you have A lot of variables underway here. You have the Fed and rates, as you mentioned.

Speaker 2

You have an immense amount of government spending right now, which is propping up economic growth in certain sectors of the economy that otherwise wouldn't be there. You have sort of unusual times in the housing market where we have both high rates and Still stable or even in some markets, slightly growing home prices, even though home affordability is at an all time low. And it's It's just I think more than anything else, we need to see some

Speaker 3

of those

Speaker 2

variables get fixed, Right, in terms of what happens. So if the Fed stops raising rates and then introduces a cut, I think that would be helpful. I think that we have to see the last of the stimulus dollars come out of consumer accounts see what the floor looks like in terms of consumer spending. And then I think we have to have a better sense for What the underlying economic activity looks like in areas where the government spending, the $2,000,000,000,000 that are coming out of the various government programs Are not driving a lot of the economic activity for people to get a little bit more focus because again what I hear and I went out and had the opportunity to get feedback from about 3 dozen clients shortly before the call here Yes. They're seeing a gradual slowdown that is essentially disposable income.

Speaker 2

They're seeing disparities on the consumer side Between either the businesses or take hotels, hotel properties that either cater to retired People or the high end consumers in high end destinations continue to do well, whereas the mass market properties are starting to soften. We hear them on the B2B side being much more guarded as it relates to liquidity and monitoring cash and adjusting staffing levels and just delaying the larger CapEx investments here. And I think An interesting data point as I had the chance to spend a little bit of time with the Head of Economic Development for 1 of the large states in our footprint. And I was asking about the new project pipeline. So yes, pipeline is still robust.

Speaker 2

There's a lot of discussion going on, but the time to decision from when they're initially contacted about a potential opportunity for either a new plant or a headquarter relocation or otherwise to the award in a given state has moved from 200 days as recently as 18 months ago to over 500 days. So you can just see The grind down here of economic activity as people sit on the sidelines and wait to get a better sense for what direction we're headed on the economy.

Speaker 9

Thank you, Tim. Very insightful. And then on credit, tying it into maybe the economic comments that you just made, and I don't know if this is for Greg and Jamie, but can you share with us Jamie, you showed some very strong credit numbers in your prepared remarks. And can you tell us, is it better underwriting? If you look back to the financial crisis through the cycle, Net charge off ratio, I guess, is quite a bit higher than what you're thinking today.

Speaker 9

And second, is it also your customers, because of the pandemic and what They went through are they just better managed today from a balance sheet perspective than was the case pre financial crisis?

Speaker 11

Yes, it's Greg. It's a great question. I think it's all of the above, right? I think we have been very disciplined, very fundamental about our through cycle underwriting. For the past several years, we've been very disciplined around our concentration limits geographically or by product.

Speaker 11

Right. So we have a very well diversified portfolio. As a result, we're not seeing trending one way or the other. So we've just been disciplined around that. We've been disciplined around ongoing portfolio management, right?

Speaker 11

So we are proactive. We're getting out ahead of issues When they arise, we are stress testing 200 basis points ahead of the yield curve, forward looking yield curve. And we've seen through other cycles that to the extent we get out ahead of this and we identified issues earlier, We minimized. We also have the ability then to bring solutions to our clients, try to help them through some of these cycles. So we're seeing all of that across the board, be it in our commercial real estate portfolio, very diverse.

Speaker 11

We weren't as aggressive in that portfolio as some other banks were when rates were 5.50 basis And the same thing through our C and I book. So it's fundamental, sticking to those fundamentals, staying disciplined both on the front end underwriting, client selection And then staying on top of the portfolio.

Speaker 9

Very good. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Ebrahim Poonawala from Bank of America. Your line is open.

Speaker 12

Hey, good morning. I guess maybe just following up on Gerard's question around the macro and credit. Jim, just if you can add to your comments, there's still some concern that we could hit a recession first half of next year, Could drive significant deterioration in credit quality. 1, how much of a visibility do you have into credit trends over the next few quarters where you can safely say that's unlikely. And maybe Jamie just talk to us about the ability of the CECL model to capture that kind of deterioration ahead of time.

Speaker 2

Yes. So good morning, Ebrahim. It's good to chat. I think a couple of comments. So, narrowly to your point, I think we have fairly good visibility into what the first half of the year is going to look like, and we're not seeing anything at the moment that would suggest that we're headed toward credit deterioration In the first half, right?

Speaker 2

We talked about it in the script, delinquency formation. Delinquency rates are actually down on the early stage basis, NPAs Are down sequentially, and we have a roll forward for you in the appendix. The slides, which would indicate that, that trend is likely to continue through the Q4. And on the consumer side, just as an example, the nice thing about the way that we manage delinquencies is it's like an assembly line. You can see In the 0 to 29 and then the 30 plus buckets what you're going to be dealing with early next year and there just isn't anything in there to be worried about.

Speaker 2

With that said, the base case we're using as we think about The management of the company, strategic investments, how we manage expenses and otherwise, continues to assume That maybe the market is a little bit too bullish on the idea of a soft landing here. I mean, again, you just look at the payroll numbers. So and apply a human lens to it. So jobs are up, but job participation is flat, labor force participation It's flat and average hours worked are down and unemployment savings. What that means is you have more people working 2 jobs Because they're not getting enough hours or earning enough money at the job that they were working, the base job that they were working to be able to cover Their expenses.

Speaker 2

So when you then look at declining real incomes, the only thing that really would be standing between somebody who is Having to work 2 jobs and is still suffering from a declining real income and credit delinquency is the fact that there was the stimulus buffer that built up because people had forbearance on loan portfolios and stimulus dollars. Well, the student loans are back now. Housing inflation is still very high, 7.2%, I think, in the most recent print. And those are just early indicators that there are people across the country that are struggling a lot more than the headline numbers You know, would suggest. So I feel good because the two areas I would say the market's most worried about right now are subprime Consumers and renters, where we have very little in the way of exposure, virtually no subprime.

Speaker 2

I think the lowest level there of any of our peers who provide information on that front, and 85% of the consumer exposure is to homeowners. And then in commercial real estate, where again, our exposure relative to total capital is lower than anybody else's. And Because we weren't trying to grow that portfolio materially, we're able to be much more selective, which is reflected in superior credit metrics right now when you look at our commercial real estate book relative to others. So it's both smaller and better performing.

Speaker 3

Yes. And in terms of how the consumer is doing and what we see in our data, the average consumer balance is still Deposit balance is still 15% above pre COVID levels. But to Tim's point, renters are back to pre COVID levels And sub-six sixty FICO's are actually below pre COVID level. So, the averages can be a little bit Misleading in terms of what credit outcomes may bring in 2024. But as Tim said, we're certainly well positioned from a credit perspective on our balance sheet.

Speaker 3

And from an ACL perspective on the second part of your question, the scenarios we use from Moody's Have GDP contracting almost near 0. So, the modeling certainly Picks up erosion in the forecast. In this quarter, you had a slight erosion both in GDP and unemployment as well as with corporate profits. And that was part of the reason The primary reason why our ACL coverage increased from 208 basis points to 211 basis points is just We had the benefits of the loan balance reduction and the unused commitment reductions from RWA optimization efforts that offset that.

Speaker 12

Got it. That's helpful. And just as a separate question, In terms of deposit pricing, as we look through next year and if rates don't get cut in a higher for longer, Are you observing any differences within your geographies, Midwest versus Southeast? Clearly, you're opening a lot of branches in the Southeast, so you have a different strategy there, I assume relative to the home market, just give us a sense of pricing competition, any differences? And in your view, is deposit pricing now essentially national in nature or is it still localized where certain markets could meaningfully outperform or lag on

Speaker 3

the repricing side? Yes, excellent question. I'll start and then turn it over to Brian. In terms of total deposit costs and deposit pricing, the quarter played out As expected, with our beta ticking up from total deposits excluding brokered to 50%, we Expect that to hit the 53% beta we talked about a quarter or 2 ago. So, the pricing is playing out As we have expected, and I think most of the banks' beta guides are coming up to where We've been at this higher for longer scenario.

Speaker 3

But in terms of each geography, Brian, you want to touch on that?

Speaker 10

Thanks, Jamie. In general, I think what we're seeing is that it's a combination of it is local and a national impact right now and what you're seeing is that you may have periods of time where the dominant players or the bigger players in specific markets May just have a lower liquidity need and so that gives you

Speaker 11

a little bit of an

Speaker 10

opportunity to be a little bit more aggressive and do well from a Care perspective, but what we've seen since March is that tends to rotate around a little bit and ultimately as people start to realize as As the competition is moving in the market, you're just seeing people then start to react. Your most rate sensitive customers are absolutely focused On the national markets, they tend to be the ones that are most willing to use a non traditional provider and so you definitely see some of that. But in general, It tends to you still tend to have some opportunity to take advantage of some geographic differences, but those geographic differences can rotate over time.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Operator

And your next question comes from the line of Ken Usdin from Jefferies. Your line is open.

Speaker 8

Hey, thanks. Good morning, guys.

Speaker 13

I think you guys had up In the conference season that the Q4 would likely be the bottom for NIM and the Q1 of next year will be the bottom for NII dollars. Just wondering given the guide you gave today, if that So, foots to that and anything we should be thinking about in terms of getting to that NII bottoming?

Speaker 3

Yes. The Q1 of the day count is what will drive that NII trough. The NIM, whether it's the Q4 or the first quarter is going to be driven solely by how much excess cash we have from the strong deposit performance. So we'll fee, but it's going to be one of those two quarters.

Speaker 13

Okay, got it. And then as you think forward, how do we understand the benefit that you'll get Once rates get to a peak about fixed rate loan repricing, I think it's clear to understand how the securities book moves. But on the loan side, can you walk us through just how much benefit you might be able to see as we get into next From that side being able to offset any lagging deposit pricing?

Speaker 3

Yes. The consumer book in particular is where most of the fixed rate repricing benefit resides. If you look at 2024, we'll have about $8,000,000,000 of consumer loan payoffs is how we model it. And Front book rates are 200 to 300 basis points higher than back book rates. And so, if you take that coupled with, call it, dollars 4,000,000,000 in Security maturities and cash flows.

Speaker 3

You end up with about $300,000,000 tailwind on an annualized basis. Obviously, that will happen during the course of 2024. So, take half of that for the in year effect. But you're looking at $300,000,000 type of run rate benefit just from 1 year's repricing.

Speaker 13

Got it. Okay. If I could just ask one last one. The swap slide you have just talks about the 2025 versus 2023 update. Is there anything different Or any thought process different about some other banks have been adding securities based swaps to protect capital and add a little Variable rate juice, have you done anything like that incrementally or is that slide looks pretty intact in terms of how you're approaching swap portfolios of both loans and securities?

Speaker 10

Yes. We've done nothing incremental at this point. Obviously, we're paying attention to the market and evaluating opportunities. I think more than anything, As Jamie mentioned, the BOLA lockout structure of our portfolio ultimately is our hedge to higher rates right now because we have those defined maturities that are going to That are going to come in and we think that keeps us relatively well positioned. But we're constantly keeping an eye on the market and figuring out if there are opportunities for us to continue to improve our positioning.

Speaker 13

Great. Understood. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Mike Mayo from Wells Fargo Securities. Your line is open.

Speaker 8

Hi. I guess this goes in the category of no good deed goes unpunished, your efficiency ratio of 55%. Do you think that can improve next year, which is another way of saying, is there any shot at getting positive operating leverage? And when I give the positives and negatives, And correct me, it looks like from the negative, the RWA diet certainly helps capital, but has a cost to NII. And I think you mentioned NII not bottoming maybe until 1st, Q2.

Speaker 8

You have the Cumulative beta going up to 53% in line, but still going higher. You're opening 35 new branches a year. On the other hand, your RWA diet will end and maybe you can lean into the balance sheet more. You mentioned the deposit, the smallest DDA increase since March. The excess cash which you could choose to put to work, so really part of the tailwind is the asset beta relative to the deposit beta.

Speaker 8

So Does your efficiency improve next year? Can you get positive operating leverage? Is that too much of a stretch? How do you think about that?

Speaker 3

Yes, I think it will be environment dependent, which I'm sure is not being clearly loaded. But I think you hit on all the right points, Mike, which is the RWA diet Makes positive operating leverage difficult in 2024. With that said, we will do everything in our power to deliver As good of results as we can, but I think it will be a challenge in 2024.

Speaker 2

The old saying is Cincinnati invented hustle. So we are going to work as hard as we possibly can on that front.

Speaker 8

And just clarification on the credit side, did I hear you correctly, you have 0 office delinquencies, 0 office charge offs. Commercial, you have the lowest inflows to NPAs since 2Q 'twenty two. You reiterated 35 to 45 basis points through the cycle. Is that correct? And I know it's been asked already, but you're saying the economy is grinding lower, doesn't look good.

Speaker 8

So you're just saying Your credit is economically insensitive at this point. I mean, like, don't you think you could maybe be wrong if things don't go so well? Until you got

Speaker 2

to the last part there, I was going to say in a word yes, but you made the question a little more complicated. Do you want to?

Speaker 3

Yes. All of those facts Are correct, and we feel very good about all of the work we've done on the credit portfolio over the last 15 years. In terms of it being Economically insensitive, no. But within any industry, there are going to be winners and losers, and that's Where it comes down to that client selection that Greg referenced. We just believe we are very well positioned and we've been very diligent and Part of the benefit that we're getting right now is the fact that we were not stretching for loan growth over the past several years and have probably had the lowest loan guides over the past several years running.

Speaker 3

And so back to our priorities of stability and profitability ahead of growth. Great. Thank you. Your

Operator

next question comes from the line of John Perry from Evercore ISI. Your line is open.

Speaker 7

Hey, John. Good morning, guys. Just on the credit side, I know you mentioned that the new MPA PA inflows were the lowest since the Q2 of 'twenty two, excluding the large charged off items, I guess. The could you maybe talk about the sustainability of that? What are you seeing in terms of risk migration And some of your internal risk ratings and everything that, do you think the inflows are likely to remain that low at this point?

Speaker 7

And what's The driver of the pressure, is it the areas everybody suspects in terms of CRE or is it more on the C and I side?

Speaker 11

Not on the CRE side. Great question. Not on the CRE side. We're not seeing. It doesn't

Speaker 3

mean we're out of the

Speaker 11

woods yet. We're watching that portfolio. Clearly, there's stress In that portfolio, but we have so little of it. That's not driving. And as I said earlier, we don't have any geographic or product trends.

Speaker 11

There's not an industry that's driving Our NPA numbers as we sit here today. We have very little from a delinquency standpoint. And so, again, it gets back to how diverse the portfolio is. Yes, I still think we've got some pressure on the 5.50 basis point rate increase that will flow through to our But we're on top of the portfolio. It's why we're stressing 200 basis points, ahead of the yield curve.

Speaker 11

So we get out ahead of that stuff. And so Could it go up a little bit given all the crosscurrents? Sure. But I think we're in a great spot. Our client selection has been outstanding.

Speaker 11

Our through the cycle, Very disciplined fundamental underwriting, I think gets us through this cycle. And so I feel good about where we are today and even if it goes up a little bit, It's very controllable.

Speaker 7

Okay, great. Thanks. And then secondly, kind of a 2 parter. Do you have I know you mentioned the criticized loans are down in total this quarter versus last. You have the magnitude of that decline.

Speaker 7

And then on the shared national credit side. The portfolio of 29% of loans, I think, over the past year that maybe is down a touch. I mean, do you expect that you're going to I reduced the size of the shared national credit book and also what is the criticized ratio for that portfolio? Thanks.

Speaker 11

Yes. So we reduced the it is about 29%, you're right. We reduced that portfolio by about 7% year to date. Given the dieting that Jamie talked about earlier, I would expect that number to probably continue to decline between now year end. Our portfolio, that SNC portfolio performs better than on every metric than the rest of the portfolio.

Speaker 11

So It's under 6% from a criticized asset standpoint. Delinquencies are less than we see in the rest of the book. NPAs or less. So, it is some of our strongest performing of the portfolio, the

Speaker 3

commercial portfolio. John, it's Jamie. The CRIT office loans were what I referenced that declined 180 basis points. CRITs overall were up Just a little

Speaker 7

bit. Got it. All right. Thanks, Gene.

Operator

And your next question comes from the line of Manav Gupta from Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.

Speaker 5

Hi, good morning. I wanted to follow-up on the RWAs and the trajectory of rates. I guess, does that move in the tenure impact how you manage that? So from here, we get a tenure up 1% or down 1%. Does that impact how you will manage loans?

Speaker 5

And as we look into next year, What would cause you to maybe lean into loan growth and what would cause you to peel back? Is it just the outlook on credit. What you are seeing there? Could the rate outlook impact that as well?

Speaker 10

Yes, thanks. It's Brian. I would tell you that The outlook on rates has a modest impact

Speaker 3

on how we think of

Speaker 10

loans, but it's more about just composition and more in consumer where we may see some additional opportunity or In relative asset classes, you might feel a little bit better about some of the spreads in auto. You're going to see almost no mortgage production and a higher rate environment obviously. And That's probably the biggest implication, just given that our commercial portfolio is primarily floating rate, doesn't really have a big impact from a floating rate portfolio perspective. And it really for us comes down to overall macro, how we feel about what the credit outlook is going to be and whether or not we're earning adequate returns on the capital we're deploying.

Speaker 5

Got it. And then just from a cash perspective, it Seems like the build was a little bit more than you guided to before. I think you had said about $15,000,000,000 or so in cash is what you were targeting before. I think your Target has now moved to $20,000,000,000 What's driving the change? Is it the volatility in rates?

Speaker 5

Is it Just preparation for LCR or is it also just that you can get 5.5% of cash and it makes more sense to hold cash over securities?

Speaker 3

It was mostly the fact that deposit growth outpaced expectations. And in this environment, We want to hold excess cash as opposed to doing anything adding it to the investment portfolio. We certainly view cash as an asset allocation at these rates as you referenced.

Speaker 5

So it sounds like at some point you'd be able to bring that $20,000,000,000 down. It might not be in the next 6 months or so, but as rate volatility improves, you might be able to bring that down.

Speaker 3

Yes. I would say that our balance sheet is elevated due to a couple of reasons. 1, the unrealized losses, whether you have it in AFS Or HGM. You do have to fund those losses in your liquidity buffers. And so, Should those losses come down, that certainly frees up cash to shrink the sheet or Over time, as our non HQLA allocation matures, we will reinvest that in shorter duration level ones and also allow to maintain an LCR above 100%, while also shrinking the sheet.

Speaker 3

It's just both of those things are going to We measured more in years than in quarters in terms of the cash coming down.

Speaker 5

So just as a clarification then, does that make you more asset sensitive, all things equal now versus, say, last year.

Speaker 3

We're pretty neutral right now. How that lines up versus last year, probably a little asset a year ago, whereas today we're neutral to at least in the disclosure showing liability sensitive.

Speaker 5

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

And your last question comes from the line of Christopher Marinac from Janney Montgomery Scott. Your line is open.

Speaker 5

Hey, thanks. Good morning. I know you mentioned

Speaker 13

a little bit about credit and previous questions. But generally speaking, is the criticized and classified Number is going to be within a certain band in the next several quarters or do you see them rising more than that?

Speaker 3

Yes, I would

Speaker 11

say steady based on what we're seeing now from the delinquency and NPA, all of the above And our ongoing portfolio. In the last 12 months, we have rerated 95 plus percent of the portfolio. So, based on all of that underwriting or reunderwriting, if you will, I'm expecting steady.

Speaker 13

And if it went higher than you think, that would obviously drive more provisions and obviously more reserve build next year, just all things being equal. Is that fair?

Speaker 3

Sure.

Speaker 10

Yes.

Speaker 13

Great. Thanks for all the background and information this morning. We appreciate it.

Speaker 4

Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 3

And we have reached

Operator

the end of our question and answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Chris Doll for some final closing remarks.

Speaker 7

Thanks, Rob, and thanks everyone else for

Speaker 1

your interest in 5th Third. Please contact the IR department if you have any follow-up questions. Rob, you may now disconnect the line.

Operator

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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Earnings Conference Call
Fifth Third Bancorp Q3 2023
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